Me: 1; Addictive Voice: 0

[lawyer101]

Overcoming my alcohol addiction has been THE most difficult challenge I've faced in my life. Addiction is just so cunning and so clever that I'm having a difficult time dealing with it. Just today, my addictive voice told me to celebrate a great result I got in one of my cases. It told me: "You are the man. Have a drink. You can handle it. Heck, you just won this big case, so what the f**k is a drink of alcohol going to do to you. You have balls and you know when to stop. So, go ahead, big boy. Be a man!"

I kept resisting the temptation and kept saying "no" to the beast. Finally, it told me: "okay, okay, alcohol makes you act dumb and you don't wanna repeat all that embarrassing crap you've done in the past when drunk. Well, how about cocaine? It makes you alert and when was the last time you made a fool of yourself after using cocaine? Never! So go for it, it's been months since you last used it so go ahead and have a good time. You deserve it."

This time, my addictive voice was making more sense so I agreed. Called up my dealer and purchased $40 worth of powder and walked back to my office. As I was about to snort a line, something just did not seem right. This cannot be me. I'm the guy who hated drugs and now I'm about to snort this damn powder that has destroyed so many lives. This is not right.

It was one of the most difficult decisions I've made in my life, but I forced myself to walk to the restroom and flush that **** down the toilet.

Yes, I did it and now I'm sitting in my office staring at the walls. I Do NOT need that **** in my life. F***K you my addictive voice, you can go suck it!!

[TimeInABottle]

Hi Lawyer,
Just wanted to give a pat on the back for keeping up the strength. Congrats on the "big case" and remember, there are more ways to celebrate good things than getting high.
You done good, just wanted to let you know.

T.I.A.B

[Chance]

I call it the "The Voices In My Head"

Lots of times they still talk even to this very day~!

[sugarbear1]

We have an AA group for lawyers near Washington, DC.

Yeah, beat that voice! You can stay stopped!!!

[Peter G]

Call it what you want... beast, alcoholic mind, the devil, the evil booze salesman in your head, e.t.c... it's all the same dude, and he's a worthless sack of s**t. My best defense against that knucklehead came from practicing the 12 steps, along with reading and studying Rational Recovery. I have since learned how to recognize and negate that voice and it sounds like you're getting there yourself.

You can get really good at knowing who's who vying for control up there inside your skull. For example, before sobriety my voice used to sneak in under the radar and disguise himself as me. Tricky bugger. Now I can see him coming a mile away, and that's where Rational Recovery and AVRT really helps. When "he" pipes in I objectify it/him, ignore it/him completely. It/he shuts up very quickly once it/he is denied his audience.

Good job Lawyer, may you always be a few steps ahead of the voice telling you to get loaded.

[Orbea]

WTG! Today I shall think of you and stay strong!!!

[augustwest]

close call man! that's awesome that you flushed. as you know its better to not have your hands on that crap at all. if we don't put a drink or a drug in our grubby hands there's zero chance we'll use it!

and the voice, my addict, whatever you call it...is a ******* liar. always has been always will be. he is not friend. he is not me, but he will try and try to lie his way to getting me to fulfill his crappy needs.

[Terminally Unique]

Originally Posted by lawyer101

.... my addictive voice told me to celebrate a great result I got in one of my cases. It told me: "You are the man. Have a drink. You can handle it..."

I kept resisting the temptation and kept saying "no" to the beast. Finally, it told me: "... Well, how about cocaine? It makes you alert and when was the last time you made a fool of yourself after using cocaine? Never! So go for it, it's been months since you last used it so go ahead and have a good time. You deserve it."

This time, my addictive voice was making more sense so I agreed...

Do you see the progression here? Saying "no" is insufficient, and your mistake was in getting into a debate with the Beast. It cannot be reasoned with, and trying to do so only gives it the opportunity to argue all sides of all arguments, as it did here, and to wear you down. There are a couple notable exceptions to this rule, if you know what you're doing, but in general, do not engage the addictive voice. You may want to read through the AVRT discussion threads in the Secular Connections forum if you haven't already, as they deal with this very subject.

[augustwest]

+1
never engage the addict. the basterd is a master manipulator.

[Mark75]

That was always a problem with those damn stimulants... It was much easier to say ... "Well I will perform better with one or two of these pills, more alert, etc..." and like you said, I never made a fool of myself, well, mostly ... than it was to justify, say... "Well, I can still perform if I only have two drinks..." LOL... though that was not a hard line to cross, ultimately.

[2granddaughters]

It's like having sex with a gorilla ........

It ain't over until the gorilla says it's over !!



lawyer, i hope you have an AA group and sponsor... we can't do this ourselves.

Wishing you the best.

Bob R

[DarrenW]

I am doing it myself Bob.

Take care,
Darren

[justhadenough]

Originally Posted by DarrenW

I am doing it myself Bob.

Take care,
Darren

Me too. I' ve also followed the AVRT/RR route. Many people have recovered without AA/group therapy

[wellwisher]

Congrats on your win, lawyer....

I'm so glad you changed your mind on the coke - in my battle with alcohol, switching to a different substance always landed me back to opening up the booze. It's a no win situation, IMO.

In my experience, it is good to recognize the "addictive voice" for what it is. I think it is important to see that what our brains crave is completely seperate from what we ourselves want in our new life. I went the 90 day inpatient, AA, outpatient alcohol counseling to get past the compulsion, which was tamed in time, and it set the foundation for my new life. I had to learn to "seperate the person from the disease" and to realize that the drinking wellwisher was not the same as the wellwisher I intended to be. So there was a disassociation with that life and "voice" that had to occur to get me to where I had to go. That did not take the responsibility for my past actions off of my shoulders. The "devil" didn't make me do it, and I had a dung heap to sift through from my past behaviors, and I did it. The "old wellwisher's" addictive voice was silenced, and the new wellwisher took over. I am eternally grateful to my program for getting me there.

For me, I had to trash some old beliefs and notions and replace them with more inspired beliefs and notions. The first belief I had to change was that I was someone who deserved a lot of crap in life. I really felt like life was something to be endured, and it made the "great wins" in life count too much, and the lowest of the low days seems about right where I should be. That's what my "addictive voice" told me, and that I needed the booze to deal with it all. I beat that voice to a pulp with my program. Today I realize I deserve a reasonably balanced life. I no longer had to live a life of extreme highs and extreme lows, but could live somewhere in the middle. My scorched-earth policy no longer worked for me, and today, "...I can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two imposters just the same" (thanks Rudyard Kipling!)

I guess what I'm saying is that no matter what recovery option you choose, you need to do what you have to do to quell that "addictive voice". I found relief in AA and through counseling but recognize that it is not for everyone. If you are opting for self-recovery and plan to engage the addictive voice on your own that you at least check out the AVRT threads in Secular Connections and read the book. In my opinion, whether you call it a cunning, baffling disease or a cunning, baffling voice makes no difference; the difference lies in what you choose to listen to.

We're all in this together, and I wish you the best....

[Lost3000]

Hi Lawyer, I'm a paralegal. 41 days sober today.

Your story made me think of a dear friend I lost late last year. He too did coke on occasion, drank often. This guy and I work for a top firm, and handle highly publicized cases. He has so many mentions and published work I can't believe it.

Early last year his great track record of winning cases and esteem came to a crashing halt. He was popped with coke in his car on his way to a client meeting. He went to jail. Had to tell the firm, who promptly dropped him like a hot cake due to liability. In which case he also got to tell the Supreme Court. Who also promptly disbarred him. Then he got to work for another lawyer as a clerk. That's when things really got bad.

It all ended up with him and a shotgun. He chose to take his own life. His family is screwed out of insurance. His 12 yr old daughter is screwed out of a father. His wife, complete with cancer, now has no husband. And they get to go on with the awful stigma provided by suicide and a disbarred husband.

Please get help. I had a hard time with AA, due to the god stuff. But I still go as a way to be around others who could understand. And a shocker for me, I see lawyers and doctors in my meetings. You really aren't alone in this. I dumped my drinking friends and dropped booze because I don't want to end up like my friend. My thoughts are with you.

[freshstart57]

My AV still pings me once in a while, maybe weekly, but it is just a flash that disappears as soon as that knee jerk AVRT response fires. No argument, no white knuckles, no struggle for me any longer. Almost six months since the last drink, and those dark dark days seem so long ago.

Well done to you on dumping that cr!p down the toilet, and congratulations on staying authentic.

[langkah]

Well done on your 5 months, and your decision to not use the cocaine you bought today.

[slickbri481]

I'm a lawyer too man. Rational Recovery really can work. I need to get where you are again.

[lilac0721]

Another lawyer here. glad to see your success in denying the Beast!! Woot woot!

[Sapling]

Originally Posted by justhadenough

Me too. I' ve also followed the AVRT/RR route. Many people have recovered without AA/group therapy

I'm one of the one's the went the AA way....And I love it...I just have an honest question for any of you that are using this method...I was just curious as to how long you have to deal with this "voice" as you call it. Is this something that is just always there? No matter how long you have been sober?.....It seems like fighting it...and one of the promises in AA that has come true for me is a tenth step promise...."And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone -even alcohol." Is there any point in extended sobriety with this method that you get past this "voice"? Sorry if it's a stupid question...I really know nothing about RR/AVRT.

[vanpol]

Lawer101, that voice can be so convincing... it seems logical too, that's the problem.. that's how it gets to us... I quit smoking about 8 years ago after I smoked for 10 years. It was hard, it took years for cravings to go away. Now every couple of months or so I would light up a cigarette, take 1 pull and think how disgusting it is. Again, but it took years. I am hoping to reach the same result with alcohol. But for now that logical voice keeps talking to me every couple of days or so

[Terminally Unique]

Originally Posted by Sapling

I just have an honest question for any of you that are using this method...

Strictly speaking, although the OP used an AVRT term — "Addictive Voice" — he was not quite using AVRT. This is part of what I was trying to allude to in my post, as learning AVRT might save him from some of that "white knuckling" he's got going on.

Originally Posted by Sapling

I was just curious as to how long you have to deal with this "voice" as you call it. Is this something that is just always there? No matter how long you have been sober?

Within the AVRT paradigm, the Beast is the perverted survival drive that desires alcohol in order to survive. The closest 12-Step analogue would be 'my disease', or possibly 'king alcohol' from the Big Book.

The Addictive Voice (AV) is the expression of that desire, the thoughts and feelings that support future drinking. It is the Beast's human voice. The closest 12-Step analogue would be 'the committee', which is referenced in the Grapevine magazine.

Just as the AA model assumes that alcoholism cannot really be cured, only arrested (BB, Pg 85), AVRT assumes that The Beast cannot really be killed, but only locked up, so to speak. It will, however, become quite weak over time if you starve it by abstaining.

Originally Posted by Sapling

.....It seems like fighting it...and one of the promises in AA that has come true for me is a tenth step promise...."And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone -even alcohol." Is there any point in extended sobriety with this method that you get past this "voice"? Sorry if it's a stupid question...I really know nothing about RR/AVRT.

While the Beast is active, AVRT allows you to wall yourself off from any thinking or feelings that the Beast generates, so that you are, in effect, not fighting it. This is counter-intuitive, which is why people usually get into debates with the AV, until they figure out that doing so is a losing proposition, or at least a tiring one. Of course, some people will nevertheless still elect to struggle against the Beast, arguing with the Addictive Voice until they are blue in the face, but it is not AVRT.

Used properly, AVRT is effectively a two-step process, consisting of recognition of the AV, and then separation, or dissociation. Note that this is not the same as dissociative disorders, which are problematic. We all naturally dissociate to some extent, but not everyone does it consciously and intentionally. The separation is the key, though; without it, you will be struggling against desire. It's not an exact analogy, since you only detach from the Beast, but I have previously compared the subjective feeling of AVRT to repeatedly "turning it over" (ie, Step 3).

It has somewhat of a steep learning curve at first, but like any other learned skill, AVRT does get quite easy once you get the hang of it. At first, the Addictive Voice appears to be you, and will try to sneak in under the radar, as Peter G noted, so you have to learn to recognize it. Eventually, though, recognition becomes practically effortless, and AVRT identifies most variations of the AV, which saves you lots of trial and error. The Addictive Voice may still throw you a curve-ball every so often, but you really can't miss it.

[Sapling]

Cool...I was hoping you would come along...I like how you explained that compared with AA...Nicely done...So like the steps...This is something you have to practice daily?....And what kind of time frame are you looking at to get to that walled off stage...Roughly.

[RobbyRobot]

Originally Posted by Peter G

Call it what you want... beast, alcoholic mind, the devil, the evil booze salesman in your head, e.t.c... it's all the same dude, and he's a worthless sack of s**t.

Absolutely!

Calling it the alcoholic mind floats my boat. Sobriety keeps that crap wired tight, arrested, and disempowered!!

[Terminally Unique]

Originally Posted by Sapling

Cool...I was hoping you would come along...I like how you explained that compared with AA...Nicely done...So like the steps...This is something you have to practice daily?....And what kind of time frame are you looking at to get to that walled off stage...Roughly.

Some people "get it" faster than others. I was a little slow on the uptake myself, and I am often surprised at how fast some people on the AVRT threads on here get a grip. While AVRT made a lot of sense to me when I read through the RR book, something just didn't feel right for a while, like I wasn't doing it properly. It still felt like I was thinking about it all the time, which didn't seem right.

I eventually decided to just subscribe to the RR forums, and I read through countless archived posts for about a month. There were several posts from 'AVRT masters' which shed some light on things, and eventually it just clicked. Right now, I really don't have to think about it, feels more like a reflex. Of course, it also helps that the Beast is damn near dead at this point, and doesn't pipe up too often.

So, to answer your question, no, I don't really have to practice it daily anymore, I just use it as needed. The only time I have to really think about it is when answering "newbie" questions on the AVRT threads. I would say it took me six months to get it down pat, but if you put the effort in, it can be smooth sailing by 90 days easily. I suspect that if I had just read through the RR forums from the get-go, instead of thinking that I couldn't possibly not figure it out all on my own, I would have saved lots of time.