Quandary

[thirtybubba]

What happens when drinking doesn't work for you... but sobriety doesn't make it better?

I give up... almost.

[XStacyReneeX]

Wow that's a tough question to answer bubba...

[XStacyReneeX]

"."

[Dee74]

OK - I'm gonna lay it out.

Here's the skinny - the news isn't rosy.

Sobriety doesn't make it better.

It makes *us* better, so we can deal with and work on the stuff that's not so great.
but...it takes time.

I know I've all said this before TB - remember that tunnel?
It takes as long as it takes for things to get better - more than 2 weeks, more than a month...

Whoever designed it so that addicts and alcoholics need patience the most in recovery has a wry sense of humour.

Look at it this way - your life is pretty hard at the moment - drink or no drink, right?

By not drinking, and doing whatever you need to try and get the most support and help you can, you have a chance to make things better...

drinking about it? you have no chance at all, Bub.

You're just spinning your wheels.
D

[Ago]

Originally Posted by thirtybubba

What happens when drinking doesn't work for you... but sobriety doesn't make it better?

I give up... almost.

well....that's exactly when I finally decided to go to AA

after years and years and years of that, drinking, not drinking only feeling the emotion known as "happy" when I was drunk.....I tried EVERYTHING I tried for YEARS

then

I went to AA

I worked the steps

then it got better

a lot better

unrecognizably better

it really actually worked.......

that's when life actually got "rosy" as Dee put it.

I suspect that is not what you want to hear, but it's my exact experience, I'm so very sorry

[Anna]

Dee is absolutely right on with his response.

I changed.

And, yes, patience was something I had none of and it was the first thing I had to learn. I HAD to learn patience before I could move forward.

Hang in there and it will get better.

[BunnyLaRoo]

Oh man I am so sad to read this. It doesnt seem fair that all the good things wouldn't come to you once you got sober. Could it be a short-term thing? I hope so....

Stay focused Thirty - it could be worse...

[thirtybubba]

I hope so... 'cause drinking doesn't work, it really doesn't. I don't know what's wrong with me.

Or why I'm still hanging on to the idea that sobriety is gonna be better. I don't know that either.

[Ago]

Originally Posted by thirtybubba

I hope so... 'cause drinking doesn't work, it really doesn't. I don't know what's wrong with me.

Or why I'm still hanging on to the idea that sobriety is gonna be better. I don't know that either.

because it is?

that in-between is the place that sucks

Drinking was great, for as long as it worked, when it stops working.....

then that "in between" place happens, not truly sober, not truly a drinker, a bit of both, life in hell, bumping along the bottom....

I truly only flourished in my life when I am able to utterly abandon myself to my alcoholism, whether the sobriety thereof, or the drinking, that kind of just existing but not drinking is the most miserable I have ever been, and it has the potential to last for years

So, for me, to sum up, my life is wonderful when I utterly embrace the lifestyle in which I am living, utterly abandon myself to it, it's like being true to my nature or something, I don't know why that is true, but it is.

When it was drinking, and that worked, that was fine, but when it stopped working I to utterly abandon myself to sobriety for it to be any fun, to not want to put a gun in my mouth

This by the way, I have found to be true even with long term sobriety, when I "drift" I go back to that place of misery, I have found the difference between an alcoholic and a heavy drinker is when a heavy drinker quits, his/her life gets better, when an alcoholic quits drinking, unless (s)he addresses it, his/her life gets worse.

So for me I have to pick a lane and put the pedal to the metal or my life is miserable, but when I do so, I actually have a lot of fun.

[Boleo]

IMO if I used my program just to not drink my life would be worse not better.
I would not have any defense at all from the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.

I have come to believe that my program, when used properly, reduces all forms of suffering. My life did not get better from an outside perspective but for some reason, I don't suffer as much. As in this old Buddhist saying:

"A man should measure his wealth by that which he does not need."

[OZboy]

..to b or not to b...
..that is the question....


..start havin' fun..
maybe too contrived..me thinx..luv..Oz..

[Asta1]

Originally Posted by thirtybubba

I hope so... 'cause drinking doesn't work, it really doesn't. I don't know what's wrong with me.

Or why I'm still hanging on to the idea that sobriety is gonna be better. I don't know that either.

TB, You've had a lot of crap to deal with lately. It would seem impossible not to be down in the dumps. I certainly would be holding on by a thread!! You are doing great, even tho you may not think so. I did a written exercise 2nite from SMART recovery toolbox. Among other things, I listed the advantages and disadvantages of drinking. I really thought long and hard and you know, I only came up with 3 advantages but 12 disadvantages, both in terms of benefits/rewards and costs/risks. I'd never really quantified like that before and it was really an eye opener for me. Try it. You might be surprised too. BTW, I'm assuming from your avatar you have a kitty. We have 2 (I just added my avatar 2nite). I KNOW you must be taking much better care and more attention devoted to your pet that if you were drinking. This rough patch is just temporary. Things will change for the better. In fact, I think the only certain thing in life is that things WILL change. Here's to that hope!

[firestorm090]

Hi TB,

Sorry you're having a crappy day, but they happen. What I'm learning, ever so slowly is that sobriety only gives us a chance to make our lives better, but we have to do it. It doesn't just happen, we have to do it, and sometimes our options are limited, so we have to do the best we can with what we have available. It's tough stuff sometimes, but we can overcome our obstacles if we ask for help and then do our best to make the best of our situation. You're asking for help, so have faith that those requests will bear fruit, then put your all into making the best of everyday, and you'll be surprised at how things begin to turn around for you. Hang in there.

[thirtybubba]

I wish it were a crappy day... I've had a few of those since sobering up. They're bad, but don't leave me with this same feeling. I reached out this week, and was "helped" by administration. Now I find out that it was just empty words... and not only am I stuck in the same untenable situation, I feel worse for having exposed myself...

I'll shut up now, knowing I can't see things clearly right now.

[jahnilee59]

Originally Posted by thirtybubba

What happens when drinking doesn't work for you... but sobriety doesn't make it better?

I give up... almost.

TB, my sobriety date is August 16th, 2009. I notice that you joined this group in August as well. I have been around AA for quite a while and I will swear to you on my Higher Power, on my mother's grave, by my children's lives, etc., that it does get better. The only thing that has ever harmed my sobriety and peace of mind has been my inability to want to stay sober more than I wanted to abuse. I believe that staying sober is more important than anything that I currently have (relationships, housing, income, transportation or higher education). Without my sobriety, I will lose everything, including possibly my life, in a matter of time. Time is limited in this life. Please hang in there even if your *** drops off. IT WILL GET BETTER. Please hang around to enjoy it. John in Oklahoma

[Threshold]

I don't have the wisdom or experience of those who have been sober longer than me to offer, but if you want some input from someone who is in the trenches with you..

I remember a couple months back, working recovery and writing in my journal that I trusted that at some point sobriety would reach a theraputic level...lol. I had been put on some meds that it took 6 weeks to get me to a theraputic level, before I could even begin to evaluate if they would help or not...I used that template for sobriety as well...surely if I gave it time to seep through my life...I'd start to see results, it just needed time to soak in .

I know this.. there have been days when I am not sure sobriety is helping, but there has never been a day when I've seen it do harm...and using NEVER really helps, and pretty much always does harm.

I may not always be able to increase my gains, but it still serves me to cut my losses...that is right out of my recovery journal as well.

this is how I see it. My addiction is a crazy panicked person who is screaming all the time. Sobriety is a calmer person who actually has some coping skills, but speaks in a quieter voice. I have to figure out how to listen to the calmer voice instead of the screaming panicked one. And the way to quiet the voice of addiction is NOT to give into it, but to stop feeding it, stop fighting it, and pay more attention to sobriety.

I do that...I turn from the addictions scream and focus on the calm voice of sobriety...then do what it tells me. Some days it's wisest solution is "let it go", or "breathe" or "yeah, it's still better than using"...but other days it actually has action steps I can take!

I've been paying attention and the lamest answer Sobriety has ever given me is still way smarter than anything Addiction has ever told me to do.

Yesterday was horrible for me..but I just kept telling myself to listen to Sobriety rather than addiction. And I got through, I didn't use, and I woke up today sober and with no regrets...that is pretty good for a start.

[Sikkisirus]

Originally Posted by thirtybubba

What happens when drinking doesn't work for you... but sobriety doesn't make it better?

I give up... almost.

You choose sobriety because if drinking isn't working for you then its only ever harmful which only results in negative effects. Sobriety on the other hand removes the mind fog and allows healthy 'seeds' to be planted. A renewed outlook if you like.

Best wishes TB

[coffeenut]

Sobriety isn't a magical cure all. I thought it was going to be.

Once I started to take myself apart....and then put myself back together again, I began to 'get' it. And the peace that I feel from that journey can not be measured.

You are also still in very early sobriety. You drank for a long time. Getting sober takes time, too.

Best wishes to you, thirty.

[shaun00]

Originally Posted by thirtybubba

What happens when drinking doesn't work for you... but sobriety doesn't make it better?

I give up... almost.

that a very important question.........a question Ive ask myself plenty.
what kind of nut case am i ................i dont want to drink and yet.......

i tried plenty of my methods to make things better.....i just wanted to feel like i fitted in with the world just right.

i tried getting a woman...i tried getting lots of women......gambling...moving around europe.....nothing became more attractive than booze....to make me feel just right.

i think it was Clancy that described "it" as an invisible spring in the gut.
when he attempted sobriety for any length of time.

in a way my life became more unmanageable when i was dry and without a program.....odd as that may seem to some

i started hoping that AA and the 12 steps would change the world so i could fit right in..

It didnt.............it changed my whole thinking process of how i look at it . alcoholism for me centerers in my mind.....so the only thing thats gonna make a difference is treating that mind..........a physic change.
brought about by close adherence to the 12 steps.

[firestorm090]

Hi TB,

It's good to vent all your frustrations here, because staying sober is hard work.

Some days, I feel like King Kong, full of vim and vigor, and roaring at the world, and other days I feel like a lab monkey, prodded, pinched, poked with needles, and put back in my cage.

Staying sober today helps me see the choices available to me today, and how I can combine those choices into the best possible combination to have a great day. Sometimes, especially when my emotions run amok, I don't do much at all and slip into a kind of funk that is hard to get out of. I think PAWS has alot to do with it, I get depressed, and then I'm all out of whack, till I recognize what I'm doing, and take some action. Action, physical action, seems to work best for me. I get up, hit the rain locker, and get out for awhile. I go to meetings, but I have to wait till the scheduled time, and sometimes I go early just to have a place to go, to connect with others. I know you don't drive, and I've found walks help alot too. I read somewhere that angels whisper to people while they're walking, and I do believe I get some of my clearest thinking while taking a walk, it's the solitude that helps me sort things out sometimes. I know you walk alot, so this may not appeal to you, but if there is a place where you can do something physical, it may help vent some of the frustrations you have regarding your living situation, maybe, find a punching bag near by, and have a go at it, lol. Hang in there.

[Pinkcuda]

Instant Gratification is what all alcoholics are after. We want what we want right now. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way and we don't get sunshine, flowers and a cartoon bluebird sitting on our shoulder just for the simple act of quitting drinking.
I'll guarantee that every issue you have in life is self induced and I'll also guarantee that alcohol was involved somehow. Remove the alcohol and these issues will stop coming up. To a point. Life still happens whether you're drunk or sober. That's a fact. We just don't sensationalize these occurrences like we used to. In short, they weren't problems to begin with.
This is the real reason that AA is a lifesaver to so many. We don't go to AA to get sober as the common misconception goes. We go to AA to get rid of the person that we had become. We go so we can put things away where they belong.
This is from "The Family Afterwards" in The Big Book. I was going to copy a couple sentences but there's too many to copy. Therefore you get the whole thing.
Whether you like AA or not the information contained in this chapter can not be disputed.
AA Big Book -- Chapter 9

[smacked]

Instant Gratification is what all alcoholics are after. We want what we want right now. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way and we don't get sunshine, flowers and a cartoon bluebird sitting on our shoulder just for the simple act of quitting drinking.

Amen to that!!

Live still happens. When I sobered up and worked on recovery, the person I became during THAT process became better equipped at dealing with life as it was handed to me, and as I made it. Life still happens.

[jimhere]

Originally Posted by thirtybubba

What happens when drinking doesn't work for you... but sobriety doesn't make it better?

I give up... almost.

Well, you may be a real alcoholic. For the non-alcoholic, drinking is the problem. Stop drinking, problem solved. For the alcoholic, stopping drinking is when the problem begins, because drinking isn't the problem. Sobriety is the problem and when it works, booze is the answer. Now if the alcoholic could only "choose" to stop drinking when the booze quits working, that wouldn't be so bad. But the deal is if you are a real alcoholic, you don't have that choice. Left in the condition that you are in right now, at some point you will have to drink again, or worse. Because sobrietyall by itself is the most intolerable condition of all for alcoholics. The whole reason I drank is because I couldn't stand being sober.

You are experiencing what some of us call the second half of Step One and finding out that having an unmanageable life has nothing to do with drinking unless you are still drinking. You see I used to think that the dash in the First Step meant "fill in the blank." I am powerless over alcohol and that is why my life is unmanageable." But at six months away from my last drink, I found myself frustrated, miserable,restless, irritable, and discontent. Farther away from my last drink than I'd been in seventeen years, I was in worse shape mentally, emotionally, and spiritually than I was when I got sober. Everyday was a struggle. My f'ing head wouldn't shut up, it just went. It constantly played the "Drink Don't Drink" game. I was ready to blow my head off just to get it to shut up. And all that most people could give me were cliches. If one more person would've have said "This too shall pass," I was gonna grab them by the throat, because it wasn't passing. Not long after that is when I met a man in Alcoholics Anonymous that had a real answer.

This man showed me something. He had me turn to page 52 in the book Alcoholics Anonymous. Take a look at the second full paragraph, the one that starts with "We had to ask ourselves..." Look over that list of human problems and ask yourself if alcohol used to kind of make those things better. And now ask yourself is just not drinking makes those problems better, or do they seem to intensify?

These human problems are the problems that need to be addressed. And strangely enough, there is a spiritual answer for human problems.

If an alcoholic can't get to a place of being able to live in the human condition and be reasonably comfortable, he will probably always have to drink. Or worse.
Jim

Big Book references from Alcoholics Anonymous, First Edition

[barb dwyer]

We don't realize in early recovery
the amount of time it took
for us to destroy ourselves.

At least allow an equivalent amount of time
to rebuild. to renew.

We all get these 'why am I bothering' moments
remembering that these will pass
just as the obsessing and craving did when we first quit.

When *I* get in that mode
*I* know for *ME* that ....
I'm no longer in alignment with 'WHAT IS"
I'm back in the mode of
manipulating the world expecting *what I want* to be.

I'm no longer lettring Life happen all around me
I'm 'playing God' and trying to force
everything and every one in my world
to give me what I expect
to be rewarded with
because I'm 'being good' by not drinking, or working hard.

And that , for me....
is a disgusted, cynical state of mind.
And I'm so dang sneaky and underhanded....
I don't even let myself know that *I* am the one holding me back.


I have to stop and FORCE myself
to remember that
When I quit drinking,
I promised I'd do whatever was shown to me.
It's not *my* life any more.
I gave it, and my own 'expectational' will
to the Infinite in that third step.

[Aysha]

I am totally with Dee on this too.
My life recently was the best it has ever been and I still managed to not be happy with my life.
Actually. I was happy. I dont know why I went back out.
But like Dee said. Things wouldnt have gone as good as they have had I been using. And all it took was a few hours to destroy it all.
Being clean helped make it happen. But it was the changes I made inside and the thinking that changed that really set it in motion. Somehow I stalled. I slid back fast. And now its all gone again.
But I never made efforts within myself as I did this last attempt. And they made all the difference in the world.
But we have to continue to work on that stuff. I didnt. I got comfortable. Thats where I lost it. I lossened my grip and it fell away.
But thats on me.
Any one of us can put the stuff down. And I dont know jack about staying clean..Obviously. But I do know that what you do from that point on, menaing within yourself. Emotionally, menatlly and even physically. Thats where the difference is made.
I should add spiritualy too. I never really knew what that meant. But I am getting a feeling for it. And yes..It does play a role in the whole scheme of things. Whatever that spirituality may be. There has to be bigger things working here. I have seen too much not to think so.