Dr Phil won't answer me, so maybe you can help!

[tay-lyn]

Seriously, I email the doc and asked him to explain this to me, but I haven't heard back from him yet, I'm sure he's busy.

So, I thought maybe you guys would like to give me your input.

Here's what I want to know.

I always hear...you have to forgive. Forgive others. Forgive yourself.

Sounds simple. But not for me. I don't understand how to forgive.

What is it that I am supposed to FEEL when forgiving.

I am a grudge holder. I harbour resentment after resentment. From the biggest things to the smallest and it's keeping me sick. I want freedom from all this resentment, and I want to learn how to stop accumulating it.

Thanks, Tay.

[nandm]

What an interesting and relevent topic. Thanks for your post as I know it interests me and is something I have had to fight with in my sobriety. So here are my thoughts.

I always hear...you have to forgive. Forgive others. Forgive yourself.

Sounds simple. But not for me. I don't understand how to forgive.

What is it that I am supposed to FEEL when forgiving.

For me it is a feeling of peace with myself. It isn't about believing the other person was right for what they did. It is about my reaction to what they did and letting go of the hold that my hurt and resentment has on me.

I am a grudge holder. I harbour resentment after resentment. From the biggest things to the smallest and it's keeping me sick. I want freedom from all this resentment, and I want to learn how to stop accumulating it.

So here is how I do it. Here is a prime example from my life and one I struggled for years with: My father molested myself and 3 other sisters. My mother finally asked me about it when I was 30 years old because my youngest sister got into some trouble and the subject got brought up. I was honest with my mother. I told her that I would support her decision if she chose to leave or chose to stay with him. At the time I said it I meant it. Ultimately she chose to stay with him and it is not something we have ever discussed since then. I went for many years feeling like she chose him over myself and my sisters. I had a lot of pain and resentment around it with my father let alone my mothers decision once she knew. What it finally took for it to stop eating me up inside was for me to take a look at my side of the street: what was my part in the whole thing? What did I do right? What did I do that may have harmed someone else around this issue? etc..... I answered these questions without blame, without letting myself say "yes, but...." I just answered looking at only my part of the resentment and hurt. Once I was able to do that I was able to let the resentment and hurt go. Does it come back up? Yes, it does at times and when it does I go back with pen and paper and start back on the question of "what was my part?" and shortly I am once again able to find peace with it. That does not mean I agree with what was done it just means I refuse to allow it to control my life any more.

This is just my take on the subject, others may feel it necessary to forgive the individual rather than looking at ourselves and coming to forgiveness from that perspective. Either way, find what works for you. Life is way to short to waste what we have with anger eating us up while others don't even know that we are angry or wouldn't acknowledge it if they did. I can not change others, I can only change how I react to others.

[tennis71]

I heard this from someone in a meeting who has many years of sobriety.

He said that when a resentment pops up about someone, say a prayer for them.

You may not mean it at first, but repeat this every time you get a resentment and
sooner or later the resentment will go away.


See if that works, why give someone else that kind of power over you anyways.

[51anna]

The thing is Tay, as long as you have those resentments, the person who caused them is still hurting you. I had a really hard time forgiving my mother and in fact, still have to do it again sometimes. But, the thought that, even though she is dead, I was still allowing her to continue to hurt me, and it was just ridiculous. You forgive for yourself and you can do it in small steps. I don't think it can always be done and over with at once. But each step helps.

[Done-With-It]

Resentment to me, or holding grudges is like that saying,
You drink a glass of poison yourself and then wait for the
other person to get sick.

I've learned to let go of grudges, poisons, etc. because usually
when I have them, it is because the other person did not act
or behave the way I wanted them too.

If I am being hurt by this person, I probably have some part in it,
and I need to figure out what, so it's not only their fault.
Then I can let it go (usually).

People do what works for them, and what makes sense.
Too often we let ourself take personal what another person is
doing to make them feel better.
It has nothing to do with us how a person reacts.

I know even for me, I act different depending on how I am feeling.
Right now I feel hurt or upset by something going on, and I'm trying
to figure out how to deal with it, but in the mean time, I act a bit
tougher to everyone. The people who have nothing to do with one
situation are going to probably feel it.

Last week my Dad something to me that as mean, and it was upsetting,
so the next person who said something 'nice' to me, I somehow read
the wrong way and took it as being mean.
I lashed out at that person, and later couldn't believe what I had done.
That person could have held a grudge against me, been pissed off,
but luckily for me they let me explain.
But my bad judgement to 'them' had nothing to do with them, it was about me being hurt by my Dad and some other things going on.


Not sure if I am making sense, I do to myself, lol.

I have to try and remember often, or usually always what goes on is not about me.

That's how I let it go.

Maybe I still want to believe under the walls of everyone is a good person, anger, fear, and hurt make people react weird.
It's easier to let it go that way.

[LogCabin]

I had a therapist tell me the words I had wanted to hear from the person who caused me great emotional pain.

But after that she helped me realize that this person was NEVER going to think about me and life the way I wanted her too (yup, my mom). And she was never going to talk to me the way I wanted her to talk to me.

I had to accept that I could not change her, and she was not going to change on her own. So I had to accept it. And that brought me some understanding and peace. Next my therapist helped me protect myself from her, and her painful words. She said it was up to me to protect myself, and put up a wall. And that was what I did. I still love her, and I still care about her, but I also understand she will never be to me what I needed from a parent.

I stopped letting that pain bring me down. And I stopped blaming her for all her faults. And I am able to forgive her for being who she is, and how she treats me. It is no longer my problem unless I let it. And I don't want it.

I think that writing down what makes you so angry is a great idea. And then understand your part. Now I don't think a child who has been molested "has a part". I think they have been victimized. But as adults we do have a part...even if we are seeing ourselves as the victim.

Anyway...this is some pretty painful stuff, and I would be very careful to not do it alone. A therapist, or a sponsor, or a close friend is your best bet to help you not drink or use over it.

[sugErspun]

I don't know if you are a twelve stepper or not, but I will share my experience and something that was helpful to me (and very practical)- to FEEL forgiveness.

When I was asked at the fourth step to look at these people from a different angle I was told to do the following if I had trouble forgiving them in my heart.

Sit quiet, picture the person across from you in your mind. Now, picture them as a child, vulnerable - can you forgive that child?

There was a lot of work before getting to that point - but it worked miracles and resentment melted away long before I made any direct ammends to such people.

I hope you can find this useful (or anyone else for that matter)

~a

[gypsy tears]

Who needs Dr. Phil when we have SR ! Thank you for this topic and thank you to everyone for the answers so far. Forgiveness definitely something I need to continue to work on.

[nandm]

Originally Posted by LogCabin

.......Now I don't think a child who has been molested "has a part". I think they have been victimized. But as adults we do have a part...even if we are seeing ourselves as the victim......

Thank you for pointing that out as my post could have been misleading, seeing it in retrospect. I completely concur that the child does not have a part. What I do have to see as my part is that I have retained through adulthood the resentment and anger, poisoning and hurting myself. I also had to accept that I can not change the past, only what I am doing today. I can not change him or my mother, the only person I can change is me. That is also my part of it. That is what I had to see and let go of.

[splendra]

Forgiveness is a gift. This is a story about Forgiveness out of "The Book Of Qualities" by:J. Ruth Gendler

FORGIVENESS-

Forgiveness is a strong woman,tender and earthy
and direct. Since her children have left home she
has embarked on an extended walking tour, visiting
ruins and old monuments, bathing in rivers and hot
springs, traveling through the small towns and large
pulsing cities, tracing the current of sorrow under
the stories she hears. Sometimes the city authori-
ties and officials don't want her within their gates. If
the people want her there enough, she always
manages to find a way inside.

Forgiveness brings gifts wherever she goes. Simple
ones, a three stranded twig with leaves turning
yellow, a belt she wove on an inkle loom, a little
song that grows inside you and changes everything.
She brought ma a silver ring from the South with a
pale stone, pink with a hint of brown. When I had
asthma she taught me how to breathe.


I have posted more poems out of The Book of Qualities in the "inspirations" forum here for those of you who would like to read some more of these writings go here:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...qualities.html (The Book Of Qualities)

[ananda]

thanks nandm and logcabin,

I feel better about this now. It's often hard to express. I have forgiven my father, which alot of people have a problem with....but I glad. It doesn't mean it was ok.

And my part was how I reacted to others in harmful ways based on what had happened to me. Boy they sure paid the price.

Therapy was critical for me, and having a sponsor who either is "good at this stuff" or stays the heck out of it. I began to look at this stuff in a more than passing way at the age of 29 and I think the forgiving part didn't happen till I was about 40 - 45. One of my sponsors once told me "you can't forgive someone if you haven't even admitted they did something wrong". That was the begining of a long journy

good luck!

[tay-lyn]

Wow! Great, great input. I've got a lot to say about what everyone has said so far, but am pretty beat. Going to bed early.
Will be back tomorrow.
Thanks guys.
Tay.

[least]

I put this link in another thread, but it bears repeating. Home is the International Forgiveness Institute, based in Wisconsin. Their site explains simply and clearly what forgiveness is and what it is not. I read a true story once about a woman whose daughter had been murdered. the murderer was sentenced to life in prison. The woman began to have health problems: headaches, backaches, etc. She eventually somehow came to wanting to meet her daughter's killer and know who this person was who had killed her child.

AFter meeting with this person she somehow found it within herself to forgive him. Not forget what had been done to her family, not absolving him of his crime, but forgiving this guy to rid her of the resentment and bitterness she'd been holding inside for years. She found that after she genuinely forgave this person her headaches and backaches and health troubles went away. It seems the resentment and feelings she'd been keeping inside were poisoning her. Literally. When she let go of those feelings she also let go of the poison.

I don't know if I could go that far. Not having had such a life shattering experience I don't know if I'm capable of such forgiveness. But do take a look at their site. It's very interesting and taught me a lot about forgiveness.

[least]

question: how does the link i typed in come out as the word 'Home'?? Huh??