Struggling to understand.

[tay-lyn]

So I've been doing a LOT of thinking about this whole 'struggle/battle' thing I've written about. I have been determined to express how I feel about it and have other's understand.
In doing that, I thought perhaps I should try to understand what others were telling me about there not being a 'stuggle/battle' if you completely surrender. So I've given other's input some serious thought.
When I think about 'not drinking'....not sobriety, but NOT DRINKING. When I think about not drinking, I feel a struggle, a battle, a war inside me. Others have expressed not feeling that. So I thought 'what can make someone so resigned to an idea that they don't struggle with it?'. Perhaps knowing it isn't a choice??? Sounds simple. If I put my hand in fire I will get burned. So putting my hand in fire isn't an option. Simple. What makes me think maybe next time I do put my hand in fire I won't get burned? Nothing makes me think I won't get burned. I KNOW FOR A FACT I will get burned. I don't have a choice. Doing one thing automatically means the other will happen. No choice involved. No control. Simple. I don't sit around a camp fire and struggle to not put my hand in it. I don't see a fire on tv and think 'oh my god, if that fire were really here right now I'm sure I'd stick my hand in it!'. So why do I feel a struggle with the drink?
I KNOW I have no control.
I KNOW next time won't be different.
I KNOW all the things that will happen with just one drink.
So why the struggle?
What inside me makes me struggle? I KNOW the outcome. Why can I not see the choice to drink as simple as the choice to not stick my hand in fire?
I dunno!
I DO know that when I think about drinking as something I CANNOT do, I don't struggle with it. But I know I CAN if I want. Is that the problem? Have all my bottoms not been enough? I KNOW I never want to drink again, so why do I struggle?

[Dee74]

maybe you've hit on it Tay - you know you can't drink again, but you're not entirely happy with that ? That's your call to make - I know I had to drink until I was ready to give it up and not feel resentful. I hope you're there

maybe it's perspective - for me, once I stopped looking at drinking/not drinking as THE PROBLEM and started instead to look at me and work on whatever was lacking in me that I needed to fill with drink, the 'struggle' got a lot easier, and well...vanished...really

D

[51anna]

What Dee said could be right Tay.

I mourned the loss of alcohol in my life, when I finally let it go. It was a loss. And, after awhile I stopped grieving for it. I didn't struggle with the issue though, once I accepted that I could not drink.

Have you read "Drinking: A Love Story" by Caroline Knapp? It's one of my absolute favorite books. It's a memoir by a young, high-functioning alcoholic woman and it's so honest. She talks about her love affair with alcohol and how she gave it up. I knew when I read it, that if she could do it, I could do it. I loved the book.

[NOMOMERLOTMAMMA]

Hi Tay,

Um..just gonna ramble here. I don't struggle anymore and I think the reason is that I've surrendered. I can't really put the actual act of it into words..but for me, I've given up my own control in this life to my HP. I don't have to struggle anymore with anything (people, places,things)..often times I STILL DO..but I really am getting to a point where "it's" not mine to struggle with anymore..

Have you done the first step? Maybe time to re-do that one if you have..

hugs

Karen

[cmc]

tay-lyn,
Thanks for sharing. Your post really got my attention, especially this part. I'm in Alanon but the solutions are the same.

I thought perhaps I should try to understand what others were telling me about there not being a 'stuggle/battle' if you completely surrender.

I'm not so sure that surrender should ever come easy. In war, a conflict always precedes a surrender. Surrendering requires the will to do it, and once it's done the conflict is over.
I like the fire analogy. If I'm not certain before I surrender to the element of fire, laws of gravity or any other thing out of my control; I might, in the back of my mind, for just a minute, believe that can touch fire without being harmed.

[Hevyn]

In the past, every time I was successful in just having "a few" it gave me renewed hope that I could still control my drinking. So the memory of the times I was able to use willpower is what caused me to struggle. While there's no doubt you'll get burned if you stick your hand in fire, there was - for me - a (tiny) doubt that I'd get drunk every time I drank, because sometimes I managed not to. In the end, of course, there was never any control ever, and when I was finally convinced of that is when the battle was over, no more struggle. (Only took 25 years.)

That was so thought provoking and well expressed, Tay - thank you.

[scaredykat]

What I have done recently that helped when i was struggling was suggested by a friend to write out step by step what would happen if you picked up again. Write everything in detail. Even write things that haven't happened to you in the past, BUT could. It helped me a lot seeing everything I wrote.

I also pray simple prayers to my HP every morning and every night before bed.

Barb

[tay-lyn]

Thanks to all for the great input.

Scared: I have a journal in which I write everymorning about my drinking. I write about what happens when I drink, what has happened, etc., etc.. It is GREAT therapy.

Dee, thanks for your input. You are absolutely right (I say through grinded teeth ) I think I resent the fact that I cannot drink. I still wish I could drink....without consequence that is. What does that mean?

I thought I had surrendered and accepted. I looked up the words 'surrender' and 'accept' to see if perhaps I had missed something. But according to their definitions, I believe I have surrendered and accepted. I'm just bitter about it. Will that go away? Or will it fester inside until I talk myself into drinking again? I do the work on 'ME' that I should. I read the books, I talk about my disease, I reach out for help. And yet I'm bitter/resentful about not drinking.

I am by nature a grudge holder. Perhaps that is what I am feeling. Grudgeful feelings towards 'not drinking'. Maybe I've just hit on something I need to look at and work on. The fact that I hold grudges. Hmmm.

Thanks for listening.
Tay.

[dave47]

Thanks Tay and everyone for all the interesting points. With myself, after years I looked at what I had become and felt that with a loving family I owed it to them and myself to change things around. With a certain sadness I finally accepted that I couldn't have even one drink, all attempts had failed. I have read much, including all the wise words and different points of view on SR which have helped me gain an all round better view.
I have tried to be more positive rather than the negative person I had become. I bite my tongue now when in the past I would have reacted. I work hard, I enjoy being with my family and I get regular exercise. I think all these things have helped me not want to drink or to be envious. I don't feel that I struggle at all and think that much as all these changes keep it that way, initially I surrendered to the fact that I just couldn't do it anymore.

[warrens]

Tay

You are making great progress. Surrender is a very difficult concept for the strong to comprehend. those of us with strong wills and keen intelligence do not "get" this sort of thing easily. It is not magic. It is not mystical, it simply requires looking at things in a totally different way than what we are used to.

Galileo, Kepler, Einstein, Darwin, Watson and Crick, et al set the world on it's ear. They forced people to look at things in a completely new way. Feminists, civil rights leaders, and gay rights advocates have had a similar effect in our time. What was taken for granted just decades ago seems totally foreign.

I recently read The Sarpashana Sourcebook on recommendation here. It is a 221 page .pdf document. Much of it is crap, in my opinion. But the first section (the effect of alcohol on the body) and the second half are very interesting indeed. The chapter on Dr. Tiebout and especially the section on Gregory Bateson and the double bind of alcoholism. It is rather difficult reading, but also astonishing. Demonstrates, from a psychiatric perspective, how struggle practically insures that we will relapse. Seriously. The stronger our will, the more likely we will succumb. Read it more than once. The essay is also contained in Gregory Bateson's "Steps to an Ecology of Mind."

You are struggling with struggle, Tay. That is a great thing. I've gone through it and continue to. If you read the stuff I suggested, you will see that there is nothing mystical about surrender. If it were, I'd never be able to accept it.

http://www.shambhala.org/dharma/sarp...Sarpashana.pdf

warren

[least]

I think I've just gotten a bit of insight as to why I feel so exhausted all the time. I'm in a constant battle against demon alcohol. I'm winning at the moment but the struggle is taking its toll on me. I FEEL LIKE I'm always in a fight, hence the feeling tired all the time. Maybe I should put my energy into surrender, and not feel like I'm fighting all the time...

[NoelleR]

Hey tay ----

I've wanted to respond since I first read your original post yesterday, but I wasn't sure just what I wanted to say, but your most recent post reminded me of one thing.....


You said, "...I thought I had surrendered and accepted...I believe I have surrendered and accepted. I'm just bitter about it...I'm bitter/resentful about not drinking..."

This reminded me of why the serenity prayer doesn't say for us to accept things we cannot change but we ask for the SERENITY to accept the things we cannot change.....it's all about a change in attitude.....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As to your original post, and your 'struggles.' I'm not sure I'll say this right, but I hope it's a tad understandable.....I'm one of those folks people love to hate....I never struggled.....grrrrrrr, right? So, I can't truly relate to you, but I can tell you what I did.....

In your original post, and in your most recent post too, you write a lot about you're thinking about NOT drinking.....of course, the first thing that came to my mind was to suggest that you STOP thinking about not drinking, but we all know how silly that is....suggesting someone stop thinking about something only makes them think about it more....lol

What I can say is that when I first started in recovery, I didn't think about NOT drinking.....I had enough other things on my mind....like, since, after a week into recovery I lost my job, which included a place to live, therefore I had to think about where I would sleep, or where I would find a job, heck.....where my next meal would come from.....

So, I guess my suggestion to you would be to change your thinking...I'm a firm believer in that I may not be able to change many things, but I can always change my mind....and so can you.....Perhaps if you took your focus off what you can't/don't want to do and start thinking on the things you can do....the things you should be doing.....the things you will do.....? now, these are only suggestions, but I'm also a firm believer in the positive over the negative....and whatever we think about we give power to (so, not' drinking is a negative; and thinking about drinking, but in a negative way; thinking about doing your laundry is positive, thinking about grocery shopping is positive.....

Perhaps my suggestion is too simple....but then, that's me, a very simple person.....who didn't and doesn't struggle..... (o:

Here's hopin' this might have helped, or even a we bit understood.....


NoelleR

[tay-lyn]

Thanks Noelle; Sometimes it's the simplest things I find the most difficult. I can't understand something that I cannot pick apart and see the makings of. I was always a great student because I needed to know the 'why' behind evey answer to my 'why'. I was a great problem solver because I could drill down to the root of a problem and work my way back up. It is the simple things that baffle me. It sounds silly but it is true. Things that I have to just accept. Things that need no figuring out. Things that just 'are'. These things which don't require any breakdown, disection are hard for me to accept because I'm always looking for the proof of what makes something valid.
Yes, I've seen enough proof that I cannot drink. But being able to accept it without being able to fix it is difficult. I want to drill down, find the problem and then solve the problem. In my brain I KNOW there is no fixing the problem, but my NATURE tells me differently. I am inclined to fix things. My NATURE has trouble simply accepting and moving on.
I really like what you said Noelle about the serenity prayer. We ask for serenity to accept the things we cannot change. That is quite profound for me. That is what I need. To be able to simply accept. Not just KNOW. But to accept and move on. Yes, I will always have to do recovery work, but I need to move past my resentment about not being able to drink in order to get anything out of my recovery work.
More good food for thought!
Tay.

[GlassPrisoner]

In war, a conflict always precedes a surrender

Good point. In order to surrender, you have to be fighting first......