Who wrote the book???

[Tazman53]

The chapter "To Wives" was written by Bill without Lois' input. Mostly it describes how he wanted Lois to kiss his butt. You will never hear it read at an Alanon meeting.

Sunlight you may try reading the entire chapter!!! Bill covered both sides of it! Read what I quoted above, that was written by Bill as well and it sure does not seem like he wanted her to kiss his ass!!!

One more thing to add it was Lois and Bill together that started Alanon!

If Bill wanted her to kiss his ass why did he help he start Alanon. Alanon is not about kissing an alkies ass, it is about recovery for victims of us alcoholics, both how to live with us and how to DUMP us!

[Tazman53]

Actually, he did read that part too.

Becky from everything you have said he is blowing smoke!!!! What he is doing as indicated by his emails to the other lady is not recovery, what he is doing is the actions of an active alcoholic, I did the exact same crap for years with my first wife!

He is right now the alcoholic Bill is describing in the part I quoted.

Here is a link to the entire chapter AA Big Book -- Chapter 8

PM me with what city you live in, I will see if I can find some Alanon meetings you can go to, let me know what nights and I will send you some locations and times.

[Confused757]

Tazman.... I do not believe my husband will ever get better. I hold onto that little piece of hope that maybe he really does love his family & want us back because I want him to hurt when we walk away. Sober or not. I know it sounds cruel, but I'm still very angry over a lot of crap we didn't deserve. I do not want this man back & I stopped believing in him a while ago. After those emails I found & after hearing about the other women, he's very lucky he went to FL & didn't come here. I have never hated anyone in my life until now.

Becky

[ImJulie]

Originally Posted by Tazman53

Sunlight you may try reading the entire chapter!!! Bill covered both sides of it! Read what I quoted above, that was written by Bill as well and it sure does not seem like he wanted her to kiss his ass!!!

One more thing to add it was Lois and Bill together that started Alanon!

If Bill wanted her to kiss his ass why did he help he start Alanon. Alanon is not about kissing an alkies ass, it is about recovery for victims of us alcoholics, both how to live with us and how to DUMP us!

Thankyou for pointing this out!
AlAnon is NOT for kissing the alcoholics ass. Its not about accepting unacceptable behaviour. Its not about the alcoholic at all!
Its about the person who has an alcoholic in their lives and suffers because of it.
Its about learning how to detatch with love.

[Tazman53]

I have never hated anyone in my life until now.

Becky the primary person that is being hurt by all of this is you, and your hurt is going to roll over to your kids, if it is really over, then tell him it is and stop talking to him on the phone. When you talk to him on the phone in his head he still has power over you!

I can understand the hate you feel for him, my first wife left me with three young children because as she put it "Martin I do not want to be a mother or a wife any more!" She did a whole lot of crap that ate me up for a very long time, I hurt my kids even more by going on a vicous three day drunk!

I have moved on, I have forgiven her, she was sick, she is a bit better now and her heart aches now for what she did then. Will I ever forget what she did? NO!!!! But I am past it and know that she was sick.

[Sunlight81]

...he was also a depressed womanizer. If you want to read some things that you will not hear in AA meetings and only mumbled about at Alanon meetings, read My Name Is Bill by Susan Cheever.

[ImJulie]

[Cathy31]

Confused I hope you can get to an al-anon meeting or some help - the amount of bitterness and hatred you carry is not good for anyone - least of all yourself. Not judging just saying it's not healthy.

I think you are onto something re divorce - it does not sound like you would be any good to him - even if he did recover as you are not willing to forgive, give him a chance etc etc you would probably LESSEN his chances of recovery! Equally he does not seem to be bringing YOU any joy so it's equally unrewarding - I would bale if I were you - for your sake and his!

Good luck!
Cathy31
x

[GlassPrisoner]

guess a part of me just wanted to prove to him that I wasn't that evil, selfish person he always said I was.

If he works the steps, he will probably come to that realization.

I did.

[Confused757]

He did tell me on the phone, the night he confessed about the other women, that he understood that I was trying to help him all along. He said that he used to see me calling him so much as nagging, but realized that I was calling because I cared & that when someone doesn't call, to worry. He also told me, "Tell yourself that you were right." & that I'm a good person. So, basically he's telling me he's realized it but I'm not sure if he really has or if he was just having a moment. He told me that we are going through the same thing only I don't get drunk.

See, he used to spend the entire night out & come in at 5:30am (sometimes later) still drunk & treated me like crap. Then, once he sobered up, he would be nice again. Say he was sorry, took me out, bought me things or gave me money. So, I'm used to the being nice & then back to the normal again. Hearing him on the phone the other night, was no different to me.

If there was a guarantee that he would get get better & never do those nasty, sick, evil, twisted things again, then maybe I could take him back. But I hear too many stories of people who sober up for a while & then relapse all over again. I cannot live the rest of my life wondering if or when.

Becky

[Freedom1990]

Regardless of what parts he was reading, if he's talking to God/praying so much and is developing some spirituality, his focus will be on HIS inventory/what he needs to do, and not on you and what he 'thinks' you should do.

I echo what has already been said. Forgiveness does NOT mean you approve of his past hurtful behaviors. Forgiveness is for you and to rid self of anger/resentment. Having a resentment is like drinking poison and then waiting for your enemy to die.

I forgave my ex-husband over the years, but that never meant I approved, nor did I go back to him. It was for me and my serenity. As long as I'm resentful, I still have one foot stuck in the past.

[mle-sober]

Becky,

I think I just realized something. And maybe it'll help you and maybe it won't. Have you ever heard of the term "enmeshed?"

I keep being confused by your posts because in some of them you are defening your husband from people here who are telling you they think he's playing you. And, obviously, you had a long heart-wrenching talk on a phone. And then on the other hand, you say you actually hate him. One things he said too that is revealing is he said you guys are going through the same thing only your not drunk.

Take this all and add it up and I think, if I were you, I would try to be cautious about another aspect of this. I think you guys are enmeshed - meaning you have a hard time knowing where you stop and he starts and vice versa. You were his enabler. You bailed him out and he tried to make you think that you needed to do so because otherwise you were a bad person.

So I guess what I'm saying is that (from where I sit far away without knowing you) your job looks even harder to me than it did initially. I think it's going to be really, really hard for you to stay away from him. And I don't think the law is going to allow you to keep his kids from him. So you'll see him sometimes and he'll draw you backk into his deceptive and manipulative web.

One weapon you have here is that you've been talking to a whole bunch of alcoholics who can read the signs. And you've got a lot of us saying that he is lying to you and manipulating you and trying to convince you he's on the path to reform and recovery. But we know what that looks like. And it doesn't look like him.

He is so enmeshed with you that he really wants your approval right now. But what he really needs to get better is for you to keep your boundaries very clear and don't give him anything. And you are so enmeshed with him that you really want to believe (even when every fiber in you knows better) his lies.

I have no right to say I know this about you. And of course I don't. But I think that it's true, based on what I know from my own life, my massive amounts of therapy and from reding your posts. I am rooting for you. Truly and deeply. Be strong.

[Cathy31]

Originally Posted by Sunlight81

...he was also a depressed womanizer. If you want to read some things that you will not hear in AA meetings and only mumbled about at Alanon meetings, read My Name Is Bill by Susan Cheever.

So? (and I've read it)