TOPIC: POWERLESS - Are You Powerless? How Powerless Are you?

[aasharon90]

Hi Im Sharon and Im an Alcoholic.

By the Grace of my HP and people
like you here in SR I havent found
it necessary to pick up a drink of
alcohol since 8-11-90.

For that and you I am truely
grateful.

Below is a passage taken from
the Big Book. It gives us an
example of powerlessness.

Are you POWERLESS? How
Powerless are you?

For me Id head to the Club
on a nice evening for ladies
night..FREE drinks....
A night of drinking, dancing,
music, flirting, and other
permiscuous behavior...all
while my little family was
safe and sound at home.

2am rolls around, im flying
home, run off the road, end
up in the hospital for 10 days
with a puncture spleen that
had to be removed and totally
messed up....along with a
high alcohol blood content
in my system...

3 months healing swearing
no more drinking for me....

Healed quite nicely....

Heading back to the
club repeating the same
behavior, to only return home
and try to end my miserable
life with booze and pills...

YIKES..!

A family intervention was called
and I was escorted out the back
door of my home to the back
seat of a police car....

Off to rehab i went for 28 days....

Was I powerless or not....? You
betcha I was...

Just never had the will power to
completely end the samity of
drinking on my own. Damn.



For From "A Drunk, Like You"


"I drank for the whole flight—before dinner, during
dinner, and after dinner. As we approached our
destination, I searched in my pocket for a pen to fill
out the in-flight magazine response card. I found this
large coin. I took it out to see what it was. It was my
ninety-day pocket piece, and I was reminded of what
I was doing. And the thought came to me: Wow, those
guys at the meeting were right—I am powerless over
alcohol. I put that coin back in my pocket and from that day
to this, some 15½ years later, I have had no urge to drink."


Thanks for letting me share.

[SaTiT]

I went insamity too
I guess it's a combination of insane and insomia.

That's crazy Sharon. i guess i'm powerless.
I actaully never got hurt,hurt until i got sober.lol

well my ex-wife had me on the hood for about 3 miles
then slam on the breaks, then punch it.lol
For a while there i consider going to hollywood to be a stuntman.lol
I think she was doing more than 35, it really, really scared the crap
out of me when i was on the L88 hood scop.lol

She didn't come home after 90days with the baby like i told her too.
I was so t-off at her, So i showed her.lol
I got a living gf to drive the sports car wearing a mini skirt to drop
off the check. Then the live in GF told me I should divorce my wife
and marry her instead...lmao
The only problem was, i was having dinner with her best freind
and her sister too.
But the entire time i was crying for my wife and all these other women
wanted to fix me.

i really, really needed to get wacked out of my mind.
Which i did. I got so frenken drunk night and night
and all of my suprevisor and friends would cover for me.
I went to work and lock the office door day after day
for almost a year and just slept most of the time.
I was having marrital problems.lol

That was not the high light of my drinking career. It went on
for several more years. I was even offer treament at that piont
but deem it was just a behavior adjustment or decipline problem.
and hell NO..I was not an alcoholic.

I didn't really struggle with step #1
It was the rest of the steps that had me saying
"the 12 steps is not for me"
"the 12 steps is not for me"

[slash]

NOT EVEN CLOSE!! I am actually quite powerful.

I am powerless over a handful of things in this world - for example, my addiction and other people...the weather, blah blah blah. BUT I find it extremely important not to abbreviate it and claim simply that "I am powerless." This is very self-defeating and negative (and a huge untruth). I choose to empower myself whenever possible and so if I must state my powerlessness, I must also be specific and complete the sentence - "I am powerless over _______." It's just that there are SOooo many more things in life that I DO have power over than those I don't.

Let's empower ourselves, folks!

[Astro]

I'm powerless over everything except my actions, I have the choice to "practice the principles in all my affairs".

[SaTiT]

there's a fair amount of willpower the is require to work the 12steps.
it's term as WILLINGNESS. Or draging my ass to a meeting.

I can choose to be pro active instead of being reactive.
The 12 steps term it as charector building.

However when I get into the realm of depression or complusive, obessesive
disorders or my defence against the first drink it's a totally different ball game.
The moment that I think I'm well adjusted or what is termed NORMAL, I'm screwed.

Try making your body move or getting out of bed when youre in a depression.
If you suffer from depression , you'll know what I'm saying.
The closest i can explain it is my body is not connected to my brain.
No matter what command i give my body it just won't move or get an action.

it was a bit confussing at first about being powerless over people, place
and things. Because I've work with things or contraptions.
I've forced things to work, it'll only work for a while or it was a pain
in the ass to put it all together. it seems like a struggle at best.

Then I've also witness when i trun everything over to a HP , even
the contraption I'm working with, things work out smoother or go
together better, Sometimes things might go wrong. At first I might
get fuastrated, but after taking a closer look. it was a good thing
something when wrong or it didn't work. Becuase if i had put the
contraption into flight it would had blown up and i would had seriouley
gotten hurted.
Events like that just totally blows my mind.
I get a asking..so who or what is really in charge ?

[Jfanagle]

I have to follow Slash's lead with some qualification. I have always been impressed with the 1st step of AA in that it doesn't ask me to admit that I am "powerless" over everything, simply alcohol, which is absolutely correct in my case. The part about my life being unmanageable I have always interpreted and found in fact that IT IS UNMANAGEABLE WHEN I AM DRINKING. I have been sober for awhile now; so that I have had the ability to manage my life. Not really control it sometimes, but always able to manage it. As long as I am sober.

I have SOME control when I hit a golf ball, not always, but when I am paying attention to the fundamentals and I am prepared for the course with a healthy attitude, the right club and a knowledge of which way the hole is I have SOME power over what I am doing. I AM NOT POWERLESS under those conditions.

However: IF I PUT A BLINDFOLD ON my golf game becomes totally unmanageable and I am POWERLESS over the direction of the ball and therefore my game.

If I do what is indicated by the rules as they apply to me and pay attention to my handicap I seem to enjoy the game.

FORE,
Jon

[slash]

Well said, Jon. Thanks.

[aasharon90]

Thanks for sharing.

[Zencat]

“My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground on which I stand.” - #5 of the “Five Remembrances.” Yep, no matter how I wish I could, I cannot change the law of cause and effect. As to The question of free will, you decide.

[parentrecovers]

powerless over here.

[Alive]

in between...

[Japic05]

I am powerless over alcoholism, addiction, people, places, things.

but thru the wonderful program of Al-Anon, I have learned that thru the love and guidance of my HP, my HP & I have the power to limit my contact with these elements in my life. And when I do have contact with these things that I have no power, I can still safely keep my sanity and serenity.

This is how I am learning to live Happy, Joyous and Free - One Day at a Time.

Great Thread Sharon,

Wishing you Serenity & Joy,
Rita

[Tazman53]

When speaking to a new person if they are stuck on the powerless over alcohol issue I explain to think of it this way, if I do not drink I have power over alcohol, but if I have even one drink I lose all my power over alcohol because I no longer can say if I will stop with one beer or 100's!!!

I had a difficult time with the unmanagable part at first because I thought I was managing my life until the fog started to lift a bit more and I was able to see reality, the only part of my life I did manage was getting to work and getting plowed after work!

[2ala2]

Powerlessness makes me aware of my boundries and limits.
I am powerless all the time!

[Gmoney]

As addicts, we react to the word "powerless" in a variety of ways. Some of us recognize that a more accurate description of our situation simply could not exist, and admit our powerlessness with a sense of relief. Others recoil at the word, connecting it with weakness or believing it to indicate some kind of character deficiency. And there are even others who confuse the term with self-will or self-sufficiency. Understanding powerlessness - and how admitting our own powerlessness is essential to our recovery - will help us get over any negative feelings or ideas we may have about the concept.

NA teaches us that not only are we powerless over drugs, but we're powerless over our addiction as well. For me, this covers almost everything I can imagine - including people, places and things. Powerlessness, for me, isn't about having ZERO control or having no choice. Powerlessness is about understanding that I have limitations, restrictions and boundaries that I must recognize, remember and respect in order to maintain some sort of manageabilty in my life. Powerlessness means I have LESS power than I want to believe I have on most days, and accepting my inability to totally control outcomes enhances my humility. You see, for me, it is the denial of my powerlessness that makes my life unmanageable. I have to always keep in mind that there are countless factors (that are out of my control) which determine ANY outcome, and although I may control my actions or behavior, it is a Power greater than myself that ultimately controls the results. In contrast to Slash, I'm powerless over WAY MORE things than I have power over, and my acceptance of this isn't self-defeating or negative. In fact, staying firmly rooted in reality is empowering, positive and humbling.

I'll close with a story - I was at a meeting some years ago when a member shared very angrily that he was sick and tired of hearing others share about how powerless they were. He went on to say that the 1st step tells us that we "were" powerless and that he's no longer powerless because he can control every aspect of his life today. He offered the example of how after the meeting he has the power to go to his car, stick the key in the ignition and drive anywhere he desired. He talked about how, with money, he could do whatever he wanted to do, including control the lives of others.

It was in the middle of February and a cold, snowy day. When the meeting ended and everyone made their way to their vehicles to brush them down and get them started. I noticed this member's car was the last in the lot and I could hear him struggling to get it started. Moments later, as I sat waiting for my truck to warm up, I heard a tapping on my window. It was that same ranting member, asking "Hey man, do you think you could give me a jump? My car won't start!"

Obviously, he had LESS power than he thought he did.

"By surrendering control, we gain a far greater power." - Basic Text, page 43

[slash]

pow·er·less –adjective 1. unable to produce an effect: a disease against which modern medicine is virtually powerless.
2. lacking power to act; helpless: His legs crumpled, and he was powerless to rise.

I am going by the definition of powerless when i say that i have more power than powerlessness. I have the ability to produce effects in most situations in my life. and I am certainly not helpless! That so, if I were to claim generic powerlessness, I am lying to myself, to others and am practicing self-defeating behavior. This is why I choose to label what I am powerless over. It provides greater clarity and focus for me and as i mentioned earlier, it is empowering.

[GrouchoTheCat]

I am powerless over alcohol, and my life was really unmanagable.

I also have no power over other people, places or things.

I need to fit myself to what-is and not what I want it to be.

Like water conforming to the vessel it is in.

Thanks for the reminder,

Ted

[SaTiT]

i get you slash. After all AA is a program of actions.
Slogens like (step#8 and#9) keeping my side of the street clean...that
requires me to get off of my ass and do something about my life.

Having had a manager position...I had plenty of power over
peaple, place and things.

for me...I like the term HIGHER POWER to clearify the way I comprehend.

O..some slogen from many years decades ago.
Stay plug into the program.
It makes sense for a musicain like me. When I go un plug, the accustic
or the sound wave dosn't go very far. but it still works.
When I plug into a 250watt marshalll....now we're rock'n
there's also a lot of focus when I'm ripping through scales
on the fretboard. Self deciplain, is deffernently required.

Then there's also other times, when I'm improvising over a song.
I'm extreemly focus and in the moment, also at the same time, i've let go.
it's like I'm in a state of grace. if i think too much about it , it's too
late and I'll miss a beat.

Some term it as aligning my will with god's will.

[GrouchoTheCat]

Bein in the groove.

I grok ya man...

Ted

[Gmoney]

Originally Posted by slash

pow·er·less –adjective 1. unable to produce an effect: a disease against which modern medicine is virtually powerless.
2. lacking power to act; helpless: His legs crumpled, and he was powerless to rise.

I am going by the definition of powerless when i say that i have more power than powerlessness. I have the ability to produce effects in most situations in my life. and I am certainly not helpless! That so, if I were to claim generic powerlessness, I am lying to myself, to others and am practicing self-defeating behavior. This is why I choose to label what I am powerless over. It provides greater clarity and focus for me and as i mentioned earlier, it is empowering.

I hear ya Slash,

And you are totally entitled to view powerlessness in any context you choose. I, on the other hand, chose to stay within the context of what powerlessness means in 12 Step teachings and/or recovery. I mean, we are still talking about the 1st Step here, aren't we? ("We admitted that we were powerless over our addiction, that our lives had become unmanageable.")

Any one of us can take a dictionary and pick or choose which definition supports our perspective, and most of us already know that terms like "powerless", "inventory" or "disease" in 12 Step teachings are understood differently by those of us involved in the steps than those who aren't. Just as there are those who would disagree with the disease concept of addiction as related to the 12 Steps, there are those who dispute the corresponding powerless concept.

I commend you for sticking by your guns, yet I also stick by mine. I didn't dispute you...just offered an opposing point of view (within context). Most of us who have been in recovery for some time understand that addiction can reveal itself in almost every area of our lives, and after we put the substance down we find that we are also powerless in a wide variety of areas. We also know that it's never a matter of strength, weakness, control, force or helplessness. It's really about acceptance, surrender, honesty, open-mindedness and humility.

For me, the Serenity Prayer ties into the understanding of powerlessness. We generally don't accept that we cannot control or change a situation until we've exhausted all attempts to control or change it. Through this experience, we learn what we cannot do and ultimately reach the wisdom to know the difference. I suggest that it isn't a lie to admit powerlessness in the 12 Step realm. Actually, it's an admirable trait.

[slash]

Originally Posted by GarryW

I hear ya Slash,

And you are totally entitled to view powerlessness in any context you choose. I, on the other hand, chose to stay within the context of what powerlessness means in 12 Step teachings and/or recovery. I mean, we are still talking about the 1st Step here, aren't we? ("We admitted that we were powerless over our addiction, that our lives had become unmanageable.")

Any one of us can take a dictionary and pick or choose which definition supports our perspective, and most of us already know that terms like "powerless", "inventory" or "disease" in 12 Step teachings are understood differently by those of us involved in the steps than those who aren't. Just as there are those who would disagree with the disease concept of addiction as related to the 12 Steps, there are those who dispute the corresponding powerless concept.

I commend you for sticking by your guns, yet I also stick by mine. I didn't dispute you...just offered an opposing point of view (within context). Most of us who have been in recovery for some time understand that addiction can reveal itself in almost every area of our lives, and after we put the substance down we find that we are also powerless in a wide variety of areas. We also know that it's never a matter of strength, weakness, control, force or helplessness. It's really about acceptance, surrender, honesty, open-mindedness and humility.

For me, the Serenity Prayer ties into the understanding of powerlessness. We generally don't accept that we cannot control or change a situation until we've exhausted all attempts to control or change it. Through this experience, we learn what we cannot do and ultimately reach the wisdom to know the difference. I suggest that it isn't a lie to admit powerlessness in the 12 Step realm. Actually, it's an admirable trait.

Garry...Apparently, you misunderstood my post. I never thought that you were disputing me, nor did I ever mean to give the impression that I was disputing you. In fact, given the way you describe your understanding of powerless to mean having "LESS power than I want to believe I have on most days" , I agree with your statements. It's just that I have a different concept of powerlessness. I must say, however, that one way that we differ is that I choose not to speak for "most of us who have been in recovery for some time", but rather I speak for myself..just another guy who has managed to happily remain sober in active recovery for 11 years (plus tonight, God willing). If you re-read my post, you will see that it is all "I" and "self" statements. Anything in recovery is strictly individual..including powerlessness and there is no reason for anyone to need to "stick to their guns" - it is what it is..neither of us needs to defend our position as there is nothing to defend. does that make sense?? haha - i think I confused myself! I know what I mean but am having a difficult time putting that point in words. Oh well.
As you pointed out, one could choose any definition in the dictionary to suit their perspective just as one could invent any definition or borrow one from a program or philosophy that fits their perspective. Also,
I actually quite admire your perspective -- truth is, I admire ANYONE and EVERYONE'S perspective as long as it works. Thanks for sharing, brother. Truly.

[Gmoney]

Thanks for sharing Slash,

As I said, I didn't dispute you, nor did I take your words out of whack. I understand exactly what you're saying. We simply see it differently, and this I also mentioned:

In contrast to Slash, I'm powerless over WAY MORE things than I have power over, and my acceptance of this isn't self-defeating or negative. In fact, staying firmly rooted in reality is empowering, positive and humbling.

I spoke for myself AND I spoke for many others that I know who agree that we have to accept our powerlessness in a variety of other areas besides our DOC -

Most of us who have been in recovery for some time understand that addiction can reveal itself in almost every area of our lives, and after we put the substance down we find that we are also powerless in a wide variety of areas.

This concept isn't new, nor is it one I created. It comes straight from the literature (I can give chapter & page #'s if you'd like). It's the fellowship who helped me to understand that recovery isn't a solo endeavor - although extremely personal (you know, I can't, WE can?). I guess that's one reason why all the steps in NA begin with "we." I hope you didn't get offended, but based on your perspective, I couldn't tell whether you were a newbie or not. My bad. That's what I get for jumping to conclusions!! (silly me) During the 9+ years I've been clean & recovering, I've met and had the priviledge to speak with so many people in recovery, and rarely have I met an oldtimer that shared your view.

I agree. There's no need to defend your point, but I assumed when you offered the dictionary definition...that, indeed was what you were doing. I also believe that whatever works is a plus.... and even if it doesn't work...

It's just another thing I'm powerless over.

Thanks again for sharing.

[slash]

Garry...it appears we agree on more than we disagree on. I agree that recovery is not a solo endeavor. It is indeed an individual and personal journey, but one I believe is most beneficial when executing with others. One of the many things I have learned from my years around AA is that my recovery is mine and yours is yours - that's what makes it so awesome. It's the diversity of approaches rooted in the common goal of recovery that makes it work, in my opinion. Another thing I have learned is that AA/NA SOS...etc - NOT synonymous with recovery. There are many vehicles and many different paths to take along the way through recovery, often times these variations exist within one particular self-help group such as AA or NA - I love that. There are no rules in AA (other than a desire to stop) which was also a selling point for me. Regarding the concept you referenced, I realize that you did not invent it, I am familiar with the literature so no page numbers will be necessary. And I do not take offense to your assumming I was a newbie - after all, often times newbie's have a healthier outlook than the rest of us! hahaha Seriously, I can understand your assumption based on my perspective especially given the way you embrace the 12 step philosophies with such passion (that is a compliment...I am not bashing) - I understand that one would automatically default to "step 1 mode" when hearing the word powerless. And speaking of such, you asked earlier something to the effect of we are talking about step 1 aren't we? - I was not. The original post by Sharon made no mention of step 1. It did, however ask the question "Are you powerless?" My answer -- absolutely not. Regarding step 1 -- Am I powerless over alcohol/my addiction? HELL YES!! Also, upon reflection, I can see where my posting the definition could have been perceived as passive aggressive. This was not my intention and I apologize to anyone who took it that way. I was simply trying to clarify my earlier declaration that (based on that definition), to claim generic powerlessness would be an untruth. I must say, based on your personal perspective/definition Powerlessness means I have LESS power than I want to believe I have on most days - I agree with your views. Our difference lies in our different concept of "powerless" - it's semantics, man...together we are 20+years sober and we rock!

Oh, and the reason you haven't met many old timers who share my view is because it's MINE! HA! And I have not had the honor of sharing philosophies with them and exchanging views about the fact that there are not only an infinite number of answers...there are at least as many right answers as there are people. I am willing to bet that each of those old timers' views differ from one another - that's exactly what makes it work! Folks like you and me having an honest exchange of opinions and personal truths that have kept us sober and happy. That said, I have really enjoyed our little back and forth, brother. Thanks.

[mrsmurph]

I'm only powerless over alcohol if I drink it. I have the power to make that choice or not, and I have to choose not forever.