Looking into Suboxone treatment

[JuniorNA]

unfortunately, the issue is still here, and I have not been able to kick this habit with all the things going on around me, including chronic back pain.

I have been reading up on suboxone, and there are a few doctors in my area that are specializing in dependence.

I was wondering a few things..

A. are these visits expensive, are the prescriptions of suboxone expensive? I dont want to go through insurance, so I will have to pay cash.

B. Does anyone know a site that lists inpatient locations in NJ/NY that I can attend for a few days, that have these programs and suboxone onsite so I can just leave for 3 or 4 days and see if I can kick the habit that way?

Thanks for your help everyone.

[Blake]

A friend of mine is on suboxone, he pays $300 or so every couple of weeks for a new bottle.....it's pretty expensive around here at least.

I personally don't have any experience with suboxone, though.

[JuniorNA]

300 is ok though. I'll call a doctor and find out more about it.
Thanks

[Blake]

Junior, be careful....suboxone can become just another thing that you eventually have to kick....it is still an opiate.

THere are a few people here that have been on suboxone, you might want to check out their experience, there is a lot in the substance abuse forum. Check with angelgirl (becky) I believe she could give you more info.

[REZ]

Hey guys, this is an NA forum. I suggests you pursue discussions like this one on the substance abuse forum or some other forum.

[onfire4jen]

It's expensive and most insurance doesn't even cover it. But it's sort of worth it.

[lucyo]

na is a program of complete abstinence from all drugs...
not a program of substitution
not a program of maintaining my drug use.

maybe DRT is 'better' than what your drug of choice was. but suboxone is still a mood and mind altering drug that is addicting.

lol dont know why but i found this funny...
"Buprenex® or Suboxone® (buprenorphine hydrochloride) is an opiate currently being marketed in the United States for the treatment of opiate addiction. ..."

this too..
"Buprenorphine withdrawal:
Withdrawal from long-term use of buprenorphine may produce symptoms similar to those experienced from heroin withdrawal. "

followed by:
"Where can I get buprenorphine and what does it cost? "

----------------
just like an addict - find out its addictive, so it must be good, so where can i get it.
i also wanted DRT when i was seriously thinking about getting clean - i'm grateful to my higher power and the doctor i was asking for it, that i wasn't able to get it... i kinda doubt i'd be clean today if i'd kept on trying to substitute one drug for another.

[PapaG]

Originally Posted by REZ

Hey guys, this is an NA forum. I suggests you pursue discussions like this one on the substance abuse forum or some other forum.

Does it matter that much? They're all in here to talk...no need to be so picky.

[REZ]

Yes, it does matter. How would you like it if I asked, "hey, do you know where I can score some crack in location X..."

[PapaG]

The guy was asking for advice concerning a Prescribed/monitored treatment and people answered accordingly. I take your point but feel it's a little extreme. As far as I and many others here are concerned these forums have a certain amount of leeway within them as concerns what is talked about. I do not wish to seem offensive to you though, and I hope we can let this rest and be friends as we all should be in here. No hard feelings intended.

[JuniorNA]

Originally Posted by REZ

Yes, it does matter. How would you like it if I asked, "hey, do you know where I can score some crack in location X..."

I dont mean to be rude to you dude...but what the hell are you talking about?

You are comparing someone who is looking into treatment and needs help finding a way to kick a habit, to buying crack?

even if the crack was just you trying to get the point across. Why would you compare buying crack to looking for suboxone?

And to be honest, it doesnt matter where this post goes, do you know why?

Narcotics Anonymous and Substance Abuse could theoretically be the same thing. Everyone in both categories are looking for help, trying to stay alive, and trying to find alternate treatments so they do not relapse again. Both categories should be merged if you want my honest opinion.

This is an NA/Treatment board, no need to be so hostile when someone is asking for help (Not asking for crack).

[Gooch]

Originally Posted by JuniorNA

And to be honest, it doesnt matter where this post goes, do you know why? Narcotics Anonymous and Substance Abuse could theoretically be the same thing.

1) Read the traditions.

2) get a sponsor and study the traditions

3) Go to an area business meeting and get involved in service work

Narcotics Anonymous is a self funded (by it's members) fellowship of men and women with no affiliations or endorsements of any other organizations or methods.


Treatment usually infers some professional, stop gap, medical or counseling situation.

Everyone in both categories are looking for help, trying to stay alive,

This is where the similarity ends.

and trying to find alternate treatments so they do not relapse again. Both categories should be merged if you want my honest opinion.

Uh no .. Narcotics Anonymous members for the majority are not looking for alternate treatment. They have found a method that is suffcient to remain abstinant and learn a new way to live which includes incorporating the spiritual principles of the 12 steps and traditions into their lives.

This is an NA/Treatment board,

Sorry but there is no such thing as an NA/Treatment anything.

the term treatment implies a whole nuther concept entirely.

The reason for the Substance Abuse forum is for people looking to discuss "alternate" methods in a non- NA related space.

no offense intended but usually the reason people have a problem with NA is because they don't want to try the complete abstinance, do the steps, they don't want to get a sponsor, don't want to be of service to others, or have major issues with one little 3 letter word..... God

Fine.. Narcotics Anonymous isn't for everyone, nor does NA claim to be the only method there is. It does claim to offer a way for those who would choose it to "stop using drugs, lose the desire to stip using and find a new way to live"

Hopefully members of NA would have enough respect to allow people seeking alternative methods who have tried NA and decided it wasn't for them to have their discussions in their particular forums without jamming the program down their throat.

By the same token I imagine they deserve the same respect.

A lot of tolerance toward those who may be clueless about NA is usually displayed here but to misrepresent what Narcotics Anonymous is about is going to get redressed.

[Peter]

Hey Junior. Rez's original suggestion to post on the Substance Abuse forum was not an unreasonable one. In fact you will be better able to maximize your feedback by sharing with others with similar experiences.

I look for you over there.

[Chance]

NA Basic Text Page 98 & 99

This is a program of total abstinence. There are times, however, such as in cases of health problems involving surgery and/or extreme physical injury, when medication may be valid. This does not constitute a license to use. There is no safe use of drugs for us. Our bodies don't know the difference between the drugs prescribed by a physician for pain and the drugs prescribed by ourselves to get high. As addicts, our skill of self-deception will be at its peak in such a situation. Often our minds will manufacture additional pain as an excuse to use. Turning it over to our Higher Power, and getting the support of our sponsor and other members can prevent us from becoming our own worst enemies. Being alone during such times would give our disease an opportunity to take over. Honest sharing can dispel our fears of relapse.

Serious illness or surgery can present particular problems for us. Physicians should have specific knowledge of our addiction. Remember that we, not our doctors, are ultimately responsible for our recovery and our decisions. To minimize the danger, there are a few specific options that we may consider. Using local anesthesia, avoiding our drug of choice, stopping drug use while we are still hurting, and spending extra days in the hospital in case withdrawal occurs are some of our options.

OK now you know I think sometimes we take things too far. I know that I am on Anti-Depressants and Seroquel because I have really done a number on my mind just like most of us. Now I do consider myself clean! I never believed in taking these things before and my counselor (who is one of us) with many years of clean time told me in 2004 that if I didn't take the medications that I would never be able to stay clean. I refused to take them because of the part that says this is a program of complete abstinence.

But doesn't it also say in our literature that we are not counselors or doctors! I might have not have that right knowing me but I do believe that if someone has an injury that who are we to say if they should use the medication or not. In the last part of the quote it says that

"Using local anesthesia, avoiding our drug of choice, stopping drug use while we are still hurting, and spending extra days in the hospital in case withdrawal occurs are some of our options."

So I would think that as long as a doctor is doing this with-drawl, Maybe I am way off here, and knowing me I probably am

Love Vic

[Gooch]

It's so good to see you looking to the literature for the answers Vic.

Your not way off base at all.

the topic of medical detox isn't covered so well in our literature. So although the program doesn't have an opinion and it's not entirely an "outside interest" it is one that needs to be respectfully adressed. I belive there just may be a service bulletin in the WSO archives regarding this topic.

the individual members of the fellowship ( and non members) are certainly all entitled to their own opinion as long as we all remember that what worked for us, our own experience, is exactly that, ours. There are many who have detoxed medically, and gone on to enjoy total abstinance. There are others who are still getting there, or satisfied at this time with things as they are.

I'll freely admit that I hold the highest regard for a message that helped me turn my life around, and because of that regard I would rather it not be misconstrued or accidentally associated with a for profit industry that wasn't able to teach me to stay clean.

[Phinneas]

Originally Posted by Peter

Hey Junior. Rez's original suggestion to post on the Substance Abuse forum was not an unreasonable one. In fact you will be better able to maximize your feedback by sharing with others with similar experiences.

I look for you over there.

I hope you do seek answers in the Substance Abuse forum as well as this one, Junior. There are already several threads on this same topic that you may find very helpful.

You're right that SR is about people seeking solutions to addiction and for sharing ES&H. The forums are divided into categories so that people can find safe places to post and share about program and non-program issues. NA is a program of complete abstinence. Anti-depressants and the like are medically necessary and NA has no opinion about them. Drugs like Sub., however, are often hotly debated.

You are welcome to post where you want, Junior, and use this board for support and information. Just know that the NA forum is not the best place to talk about opiate-based treatments.

I hope that helps!

[JuniorNA]

thanks for the help and kind words guys.

I recently read that you have to give all your information to this suboxone doctor, and list all the doctors that you have been to for pain management/treatment. This suboxone treatment doctor will probably contact them to let them know I'm trying to get help...which is a open and shut case for me since my doctor is a family doctor, and regardless of patient/doctor confidential laws, my family will still find out. This cannot happen at this point and time in my life. I will have to search for alternative methods to help myself.

Thanks for everything. will report back.

[lucyo]

my active addiction was about taking mood and mind altering substances to change how i feel... when one stopped working i tried substituting, when one was causing too many problems, i tried substituting... part of the substituting involved legal prescriptions.

i see no difference in many of the "legal" medications so many addicts in the program are on today.

hopefully NA will always be a program of complete abstinence, whether some members choose to follow that way or not. hopefully there will always be some in narcotics anonymous who can offer hope that it is possible to be free from thinking they have to take mood or mind altering drugs to fix them.

just like there are people who come to na and never work the steps, there are some who come to na and never get abstinent from mood and mind altering drugs

if you want to learn how to 'use' successfully and legally, narcotics anonymous isn't here to teach you how.

[onfire4jen]

Yes, it's true. I started at 8mg and went all the say down to .25 (very small dose) and stabilized at each level before going down again. It took a little over 2 months, and then I finally jumped off and I've been clean now for almost 2 weeks and I feel great. I still have some bad moments and some bad days but that is normal. It gets better and better. I mean - it hasn't even been 2 weeks yet, will be by Saturday. Suboxone can be very helpful in getting off of opiates. You just have to be very carefull, follow your doctors instructions, NEVER JUMP AROUND, (It'll make you sick) and then be brave when you finally get off. It's much better than cold turkey for me because I could continue working. But it's still pretty rough for the first few days, but dang, you can do it. I did it. I did it. I did it. I really did it!!!!!!! And you can too. Get it? Love, Jennifer!!!

[REZ]

I'm not against people using suboxone to get of other opiates. This is not what the NA program is about, however. NA is about complete abstinence from all mind/mood altering drugs and working the 12 steps and 12 honoring the traditions.

[Gooch]

Good news Jen.

A clean addict is a miracle!

Don't forget that we're here for you on those rough days to commiserate.

[onfire4jen]

Originally Posted by REZ

I'm not against people using suboxone to get of other opiates. This is not what the NA program is about, however. NA is about complete abstinence from all mind/mood altering drugs and working the 12 steps and 12 honoring the traditions.

Of course it is. That's what NA is about - complete abstinance from all mind and mood altering drugs. Who is challenging that issue? Not me. However I got there I got there and now I'm here.

[onfire4jen]

Originally Posted by lucyo

na is a program of complete abstinence from all drugs...
not a program of substitution
not a program of maintaining my drug use.

maybe DRT is 'better' than what your drug of choice was. but suboxone is still a mood and mind altering drug that is addicting.

lol dont know why but i found this funny...
"Buprenex® or Suboxone® (buprenorphine hydrochloride) is an opiate currently being marketed in the United States for the treatment of opiate addiction. ..."

this too..
"Buprenorphine withdrawal:
Withdrawal from long-term use of buprenorphine may produce symptoms similar to those experienced from heroin withdrawal. "

followed by:
"Where can I get buprenorphine and what does it cost? "

----------------
just like an addict - find out its addictive, so it must be good, so where can i get it.
i also wanted DRT when i was seriously thinking about getting clean - i'm grateful to my higher power and the doctor i was asking for it, that i wasn't able to get it... i kinda doubt i'd be clean today if i'd kept on trying to substitute one drug for another.

EWE no suboxone is not like that, it's not a "fun" drug. It's supposed to be I think more along the lines of like, getting you out of the addictive behavior for a bit so you can get it together (because you feel clean on it, not high), like get a job or buy a car to get yourself around, get out of the old behavior and then wean off as soon as possible - and it is a lot easier to do that with suboxone than other forms of opiates. You are not clean when you are on it, but you feel that way, especially when your dose comes way down. The ultimate goal is to become clean and free of dependency on the suboxone. I did it. I've been around the program for a long time, my dad, my uncle, myself, you name it. I knew I was going to get clean, it was just a matter of planning and time. Suboxone is not a joke, it must be monitored very carefully. You can go to meetings but I waited until I was off completely before I went. Just picked up some NA literature and stuff and then when I was off completely, I started going into the rooms and getting help I need to stay clean. Thanks for letting me share.