View Poll Results: How do you feel about special interst meetings?
Yes, I think they are helpful.
18
72.00%
No, I think they violate traditions.
4
16.00%
unsure.
3
12.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll
Special Interest meetings?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Never, Never land
Posts: 2,851
Special Interest meetings?
I'd like to take a poll.
In this area, it is in our policy to NOT have special interest meetings. (women's meetings, men's meetings, gay meetings etc.)
do you think special interest meetings are needed, or do they violate the 3rd tradition?
In this area, it is in our policy to NOT have special interest meetings. (women's meetings, men's meetings, gay meetings etc.)
do you think special interest meetings are needed, or do they violate the 3rd tradition?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Never, Never land
Posts: 2,851
I'm trying to get a feel for an idea my homegroup has. (actually, I would like to see my homegroup follow through with)
Since we can't have special interst meetings because they feel someone would be turned away for gender, I thought since my homegroup has 2 rooms available to it, and a 3rd room where we keep the coffee pot, that we could have a women's meeting in one room, and a men's meeting in the other. That way, we can have a special interest meeting without the possibility of someone being turned away.
What do you think?
Since we can't have special interst meetings because they feel someone would be turned away for gender, I thought since my homegroup has 2 rooms available to it, and a 3rd room where we keep the coffee pot, that we could have a women's meeting in one room, and a men's meeting in the other. That way, we can have a special interest meeting without the possibility of someone being turned away.
What do you think?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: El Cerrito, California
Posts: 580
AA has lots of special interest meetings. Women sometimes feel like they're being stalked in regular meetings, and sometimes gays, atheists and agnostics, or even born-again Christians get a lot of attitude. I know of a couple of meetings for pagans. As a Buddhist I'm frequently written off as a nut, but that seems to come with the territory.
The important thing is allowing people to be comfortable so they get the help they need, one way or another.
The important thing is allowing people to be comfortable so they get the help they need, one way or another.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: out there...
Posts: 2,653
In our area we had a few proponents of special interest groups...
seemed like there was only enough special interest to start the group, not enough to support it.
There are many references in the text to acting in faith and then waiting to see the outcome.
"spiritual principles are never in conflict" is one I really like.
seemed like there was only enough special interest to start the group, not enough to support it.
There are many references in the text to acting in faith and then waiting to see the outcome.
"spiritual principles are never in conflict" is one I really like.
I'm an addict.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hyde Park, NY
Posts: 1,201
I think special interest groups are a good idea in theory, and there is a womans meeting here in our area, I respect it and the only time I go to it is if there is a celebration of someone I knows b-day. However, no matter how much I or anyone else thinks they are a good idea, they are a violation of the 3rd tradition and it says that our traditions are not negotiable.
what me and some of the "younger people" in our area have done is this, instead of starting an official "under 30" meeting, we just all meet up and hang out a bunch.....our particular issuse that are unique to young people in recovery are usually talk through by just hanging out.
Maybe a woman's lunch or night out that isn't an official NA meeting could suit yalls needs with out ruffleing feathers?
what me and some of the "younger people" in our area have done is this, instead of starting an official "under 30" meeting, we just all meet up and hang out a bunch.....our particular issuse that are unique to young people in recovery are usually talk through by just hanging out.
Maybe a woman's lunch or night out that isn't an official NA meeting could suit yalls needs with out ruffleing feathers?
JUST DO IT!!
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Here Or There
Posts: 7,612
Well like we say around here, special interest or not no one can keep any addict out of a meeting. They have women meeting here also, yet I don't go in respect to them, anyway who wants to sit in a meeting with a bunch of women? 
Well let's take that back. 
Our third tradition states that the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop using, Um maybe Blake we will have to dress in drag 
Well let's take that back. Our third tradition states that the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop using, Um maybe Blake we will have to dress in drag Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
The purpose of a special interest group is for identification. The classic example is Overeaters Anonymous. The people in OA identify with the special problems of having to consume their drug of choice (food) in moderation, otherwise they die. For the people in OA, complete abstinence does not work, and so they got together and created their own special interest groups many years ago, which later became an independent program.
Alcoholics Anonymous, Cocaine Anonymous, Al-Anon, etc. are all special interest groups. There really is only one _program_ which has been adapted to a huge number of special interests. AA was just the first special interest group that adapted the 12 steps to their special interest of alcohol addiction. Consider that the 12 steps are really an adaption of various previous influences; the Oxford groups, the teachings of William James and those of Carl Jung.
The third tradition refers to membership in the _program_, nothing else. For example, some buildings where meetings are held require that smoking be done _outside_ the building. People who attend the meeting are asked to not smoke inside. They are not being barred from the _program_, only from smoking inside. What if one member decides he will smoke inside anyway? That member can then be thrown out of the building, even though he's not being thrown out of the program. In fact, he is perfectly within the rules if he starts his own special interest meeting in his own house for people who want to smoke indoors.
It is the fourth tradition that refers to membership in a _group_. Not the third. The fourth says that a group can do whatever it's group conscience says, as long as it does not affect anybody else. That tradition gives each group full authority to make itself into any special interest it wants.
AA first formalized it's approval of special interest groups in a series of talks by Bill Wilson titled "Problems other than alcohol". You'll find a lot of good stuff if you google that title. Also look for "common needs", which is the term they used originally.
Mike
Alcoholics Anonymous, Cocaine Anonymous, Al-Anon, etc. are all special interest groups. There really is only one _program_ which has been adapted to a huge number of special interests. AA was just the first special interest group that adapted the 12 steps to their special interest of alcohol addiction. Consider that the 12 steps are really an adaption of various previous influences; the Oxford groups, the teachings of William James and those of Carl Jung.
The third tradition refers to membership in the _program_, nothing else. For example, some buildings where meetings are held require that smoking be done _outside_ the building. People who attend the meeting are asked to not smoke inside. They are not being barred from the _program_, only from smoking inside. What if one member decides he will smoke inside anyway? That member can then be thrown out of the building, even though he's not being thrown out of the program. In fact, he is perfectly within the rules if he starts his own special interest meeting in his own house for people who want to smoke indoors.
It is the fourth tradition that refers to membership in a _group_. Not the third. The fourth says that a group can do whatever it's group conscience says, as long as it does not affect anybody else. That tradition gives each group full authority to make itself into any special interest it wants.
AA first formalized it's approval of special interest groups in a series of talks by Bill Wilson titled "Problems other than alcohol". You'll find a lot of good stuff if you google that title. Also look for "common needs", which is the term they used originally.
Mike
One Day At A Time
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: West Vancouver, BC
Posts: 405
Each group should be autonomous....If the group decides it wants to be open or closed by group concience it can...we have many womens groups in Canada and many Gay groups as well...but wouldn't it be the group concience that made that decision ???
Janni
Janni
I'm an addict.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hyde Park, NY
Posts: 1,201
Desert eyes, OA, AA, alanon are all different fellowships and the program of Narcotics Anonymous is different than those (we are fully self suporting, declining outside contributions...wich means more than just money). Our first step states that we are powerless over the disease of addiction, not the symptoms of that disease, it is all inclusive. One word changed, HUGE difference.
The 3rd tradition states that the only reqirement for membership is a desire to stop using. If someone is told that they shouldn't go to a certain meeting, even though they have a desire to stop using, it is a violation of that tradition. As for everygroup being autonamous....except in matters effecting other groups or NA as a whole...tradition violations affect NA as a whole. For instance, one group in my area formed to incorperate a certain religion into the meetings it had, this violated the 3rd 4th and especially the 10th traditions so the ASC stepped in and corrected the situation. The people still meet, but it is not a Narcotics Anonymous meeting, it's a meeting that just happens to be attended by some people that happen to be members of NA, it is not on the meeting lists.
I think the main danger in special interest meetings is that it puts the focus on the differences rather than the similarities, instead of the common problem of the disease of addiction.
There are issues that women deal with that meen don't and that men deal with that women don't and that gay people deal with that straight people don't in recovery. I don't believe that a special Narcotics Anonymous meeting just for these groups is the answer, all the special issues can be dealt with through sponsorship and fellowshiping and dealt with better that way by forcing us to form a support circle that we depend on.
The basic text states that the traditions are not negotiable.
THis is all just my opinion and view on things.
I would not go to a womans meeting in my area unless I was about to go use and needed a meeting, and I'm sure in that case I'd be welcomed by most people there.
The 3rd tradition states that the only reqirement for membership is a desire to stop using. If someone is told that they shouldn't go to a certain meeting, even though they have a desire to stop using, it is a violation of that tradition. As for everygroup being autonamous....except in matters effecting other groups or NA as a whole...tradition violations affect NA as a whole. For instance, one group in my area formed to incorperate a certain religion into the meetings it had, this violated the 3rd 4th and especially the 10th traditions so the ASC stepped in and corrected the situation. The people still meet, but it is not a Narcotics Anonymous meeting, it's a meeting that just happens to be attended by some people that happen to be members of NA, it is not on the meeting lists.
I think the main danger in special interest meetings is that it puts the focus on the differences rather than the similarities, instead of the common problem of the disease of addiction.
There are issues that women deal with that meen don't and that men deal with that women don't and that gay people deal with that straight people don't in recovery. I don't believe that a special Narcotics Anonymous meeting just for these groups is the answer, all the special issues can be dealt with through sponsorship and fellowshiping and dealt with better that way by forcing us to form a support circle that we depend on.
The basic text states that the traditions are not negotiable.
THis is all just my opinion and view on things.
I would not go to a womans meeting in my area unless I was about to go use and needed a meeting, and I'm sure in that case I'd be welcomed by most people there.
Vision of Hope
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Living on This side of the green!!
Posts: 1,057
I think the main danger in special interest meetings is that it puts the focus on the differences rather than the similarities, instead of the commong problem of the disease of addiction.
I believe we hear violation of traditions from mis-informed people. If some of our members want to reach out to other members with other specification with there disease, nobody tells us we can not go to those meetings.
Peace,
Todd J.
I'm an addict.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hyde Park, NY
Posts: 1,201
I know that if I showed up a woman's only meeting, I would not be turned away, or atleast I shouldn't be turned away. I have a little experience though in the program. If a newcommer sees a meeting listed in the meeting list as "women only" or "men only" it precludes them from going to that meeting based on a factor other than the desire to stop using. If they showed up, they shouldn't be turned away, but how does a newcommer know this, when they see that they don't fit the gender role for that meeting?
I just want to know what is accoplished in a special interest meeting that can't be accomplished through sponsorship and fellowshiping?
Could a group form a specific religion meeting? what about a specific race meeting?
I just want to know what is accoplished in a special interest meeting that can't be accomplished through sponsorship and fellowshiping?
Could a group form a specific religion meeting? what about a specific race meeting?
Vision of Hope
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Living on This side of the green!!
Posts: 1,057
Religion? No!! This is a Spiritual NOT Religous Program. So No Jsus Freak meetings, Not that there is anything wrong with Jesus Freaks, but that is an outside issue, That would be promoting beliefs, and the whole God of your own understanding thing would kinda be shot.
In a HIV,Gay/Lesbian Meeting, ect........ It accomplishes more than we can concieve if we don't have aids/HIV or we are not gay. I sponsor a man with Aids and he is going through so much right now that I don't know about but I have some friends that do. Some places have Aids meetings and he would be able to have a meeting to go to, to build his network and talk and help others going through what he is going through and get the FREEDOM. In an open regular meeting a 20 year old kid, or someone who hasn't been through it may not understand, a 50 year old that has Aids and has been diagnosed with syfalis(?) in his eyes. Someone else may have feedback and the newcomer could be turned away because they don't get why folks are talking about aids and a NA meeting. There are 2 sides of every coin, just because we don't understand doesn't mean it shouldn't happen, and before we through around the "violation" Tradition card, make sure its actual a violation, get a BETTER UNDERSTANDING FIRST. Show me in any literature we have that says we can not have "Special Interest Group", not that so and so says, but in black and white. Proper service is , Doing the right thing for the right reason. Folks that feel they need to do this , who am I to question?
I still don't understand the who ASC telling the Group what they can and can't do, Concerned members I understand, but the ASC doesn't tell the group!!
Peace,
Todd J.
In a HIV,Gay/Lesbian Meeting, ect........ It accomplishes more than we can concieve if we don't have aids/HIV or we are not gay. I sponsor a man with Aids and he is going through so much right now that I don't know about but I have some friends that do. Some places have Aids meetings and he would be able to have a meeting to go to, to build his network and talk and help others going through what he is going through and get the FREEDOM. In an open regular meeting a 20 year old kid, or someone who hasn't been through it may not understand, a 50 year old that has Aids and has been diagnosed with syfalis(?) in his eyes. Someone else may have feedback and the newcomer could be turned away because they don't get why folks are talking about aids and a NA meeting. There are 2 sides of every coin, just because we don't understand doesn't mean it shouldn't happen, and before we through around the "violation" Tradition card, make sure its actual a violation, get a BETTER UNDERSTANDING FIRST. Show me in any literature we have that says we can not have "Special Interest Group", not that so and so says, but in black and white. Proper service is , Doing the right thing for the right reason. Folks that feel they need to do this , who am I to question?
I still don't understand the who ASC telling the Group what they can and can't do, Concerned members I understand, but the ASC doesn't tell the group!!
Peace,
Todd J.
I'm an addict.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hyde Park, NY
Posts: 1,201
I would say that "CHristians in recovery" is a special interest group, why cant they have their own meeting? I know it's an outside issue, but so is weather someone is gay or straight. WHere does it stop? Why couldn't I start a "white, agnostic, business men under 30" meeting? Isn't that a "special interest" gourp? I know 4 outher people in my area that would qualify for that meeting.
I can deffinately see that there are issues that affect people like your sponsee differently than the seneraly population of NA. I undestand that you don't have the experience to share with him that some people you know with aids do. I'm sure that as a sponsor of the guy, you have gotten him intouch with people you know that have some experience in that area. THat is what I was saying could be accomplished through sponsorship and fellowshiping instead of having exclusive meetings. Do you understand where I'm comming from with this? Why form a meeting, who's motives are to exclude certain groups of addicts, when the same E,S & H can be gained through sponsorship and fellowshiping? Why be exclusive in stead of inclusive?
As far as the ASC telling a group what they can and can't do, I kinda miss worded that. THe group in question in my area were voted off the meeting list at our ASC as "not an NA meeting" by group conscious. THe ASC didn't go tell them this, concerened members, that happened to be on the ASC, went and told them this.
don't get me wrong, I am really enjoying this debate, yall....it makes me think....
I can deffinately see that there are issues that affect people like your sponsee differently than the seneraly population of NA. I undestand that you don't have the experience to share with him that some people you know with aids do. I'm sure that as a sponsor of the guy, you have gotten him intouch with people you know that have some experience in that area. THat is what I was saying could be accomplished through sponsorship and fellowshiping instead of having exclusive meetings. Do you understand where I'm comming from with this? Why form a meeting, who's motives are to exclude certain groups of addicts, when the same E,S & H can be gained through sponsorship and fellowshiping? Why be exclusive in stead of inclusive?
As far as the ASC telling a group what they can and can't do, I kinda miss worded that. THe group in question in my area were voted off the meeting list at our ASC as "not an NA meeting" by group conscious. THe ASC didn't go tell them this, concerened members, that happened to be on the ASC, went and told them this.
don't get me wrong, I am really enjoying this debate, yall....it makes me think....
Vision of Hope
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Living on This side of the green!!
Posts: 1,057
Our Fellowship is so cool, it has room for ALL Manifestations of the recovering addict. Some may need to know that there are more than just them needing to recover through other diseases. I don't agree with some, but I am a parent, some dont understand that either. Special Intrest groups can keep within the 12 Steps, 12 Traditions, thats all they need to do.
As far as a Christians in recovery NA Group, it brings religion to the title alone, and thebible is not our literature. If we carry the message to the addict who still suffers and someone gains positive direction. its all good.
Peace,
Todd J.
As far as a Christians in recovery NA Group, it brings religion to the title alone, and thebible is not our literature. If we carry the message to the addict who still suffers and someone gains positive direction. its all good.
Peace,
Todd J.
I'm an addict.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hyde Park, NY
Posts: 1,201
I agree todd, room for every addict on the planet, despite the differences...
From tradition 3 in the basic text:
"Desire is our only requirement, and rightly so. Addiction does not discriminate. This Tradition is to insure that any addict regardless of drugs used, race, religious beliefs, sex, sexual preference or financial condition is free to practice the N.A. way of life. That only the desire to stop using is needed insures that no caste system will develop making one addict superior to another. All addicted persons are welcome and equal in obtaining the relief they are seeking from their addiction; every addict can recover in this program on an equal basis. This Tradition guarantees our freedom to recover."
Tradition 4:
"Like group conscience, autonomy can be a two-edged sword. Group autonomy has been used to justify the violation of the Traditions. If a contradiction exists, we have slipped away from our principles. If we check to make sure that our actions are clearly within the bounds of our Traditions; if we do not dictate to other groups, or force anything upon them; and if we consider the consequences of our action ahead of time, then all will be well."
I was a little tired this morning and didn't have my basic text in the house....I know this doesn't say "you can not have special interest meetings" but to me (my sponsor, his sponsor, and most of the really old timers in my area), that's what it is interpreted as.
From tradition 3 in the basic text:
"Desire is our only requirement, and rightly so. Addiction does not discriminate. This Tradition is to insure that any addict regardless of drugs used, race, religious beliefs, sex, sexual preference or financial condition is free to practice the N.A. way of life. That only the desire to stop using is needed insures that no caste system will develop making one addict superior to another. All addicted persons are welcome and equal in obtaining the relief they are seeking from their addiction; every addict can recover in this program on an equal basis. This Tradition guarantees our freedom to recover."
Tradition 4:
"Like group conscience, autonomy can be a two-edged sword. Group autonomy has been used to justify the violation of the Traditions. If a contradiction exists, we have slipped away from our principles. If we check to make sure that our actions are clearly within the bounds of our Traditions; if we do not dictate to other groups, or force anything upon them; and if we consider the consequences of our action ahead of time, then all will be well."
I was a little tired this morning and didn't have my basic text in the house....I know this doesn't say "you can not have special interest meetings" but to me (my sponsor, his sponsor, and most of the really old timers in my area), that's what it is interpreted as.
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
If specials are controled so they don't become a pity party or gender bashing party, I see great need for them. Women have issues that only women may understand. Men have issues that only men may understand. Gays have issues that only gays would understand.
I think in addition to ... not replacement of... they are a good idea.
The collective group of all members, people can learn from each other because of the differences. I feel that is important as well. The world is collective, only bathrooms are separated.
Good seeing you about Laurie
I think in addition to ... not replacement of... they are a good idea.
The collective group of all members, people can learn from each other because of the differences. I feel that is important as well. The world is collective, only bathrooms are separated.
Good seeing you about Laurie
Clean and Fabulous
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 23
In our area, we have a women's meeting once every two weeks, but we hold it at someone's house and it is not an official NA meeting (as in we do not read all of the literature, pass a 7th tradition basket, or are listed on the meeting scedule.) We spread word around to all the women to attend and those with the willingness do show up. One of the things that was expressed to me when I came to NA was to get close to those like me, women and young people with substantial clean time because they would best understand what I was going through. Because so many women show up to our get together, it ends up being mostly if not all men at the regular sanctioned NA meeting sceduled for that evening. Without breaking any traditions, we are able to get with those in recovery who would understand us best.
IMO, this is a great way to do that. By seeking out other men, women, gays, religious, young or old people in the fellowship, you can plan to get together with others like you witout needing a specific meeting on the schedule to do so. If you are willing to get involved and diversify your recovery, trust me, you'll find a way. We're addicts... we always find a way
IMO, this is a great way to do that. By seeking out other men, women, gays, religious, young or old people in the fellowship, you can plan to get together with others like you witout needing a specific meeting on the schedule to do so. If you are willing to get involved and diversify your recovery, trust me, you'll find a way. We're addicts... we always find a way
Vision of Hope
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Living on This side of the green!!
Posts: 1,057
If a contradiction exists, we have slipped away from our principles. If we check to make sure that our actions are clearly within the bounds of our Traditions; if we do not dictate to other groups, or force anything upon them; and if we consider the consequences of our action ahead of time, then all will be well."
If the message is being carried at ANY Narcotics Anonymous meeting, and I still have a problem, who has slipped from principles?
Tradition 4:
We say that for N.A., autonomy is more than this. It gives our groups the freedom to act on their own to establish their atmosphere of recovery, serve their members, and fulfill their primary purpose. It is for these reasons that we guard our autonomy so carefully.
Tradition 5:
The group is the most powerful vehicle we have for carrying the message. When a member carries the message, she is somewhat bound by interpretation and personality. The problem with literature is language. The feelings, the intensity, and the strengths are sometimes lost. In our group, with many different personalities, the message of recovery is a recurring theme.
Peace,
Todd J.
I'm an addict.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hyde Park, NY
Posts: 1,201
Todd, just for the reccord, I personally don't go around complaining about special interest meetings. I respect the women's only meeting in my area's rules by not going to it. The only time I ever even talk about them is when the topic pops up in coversation like this. I simply believe that they are a violation of the traditions and that their purpose could be served in a completely un-controversial way like the lady a few posts up said.
I don't see the need for a specific group of recovering addicts based on "drugs used, race, religious beliefs, sex, sexual preference or financial condition" to have an exclusive "NA meeting" for themselves. I can completely understand an unofficial get together or fellowshiping with each other, which I think is actually preferential to an official meeting anyway, it just shouldn't be labled as an NA meeting if certain addicts aren't meant to be able to attend.
Isn't disorderlydamie's area's handleing of the situation a much less controversial way of doing things? Wouldn't that then make it a more spiritual way of handleing the situation?
I don't see the need for a specific group of recovering addicts based on "drugs used, race, religious beliefs, sex, sexual preference or financial condition" to have an exclusive "NA meeting" for themselves. I can completely understand an unofficial get together or fellowshiping with each other, which I think is actually preferential to an official meeting anyway, it just shouldn't be labled as an NA meeting if certain addicts aren't meant to be able to attend.
Isn't disorderlydamie's area's handleing of the situation a much less controversial way of doing things? Wouldn't that then make it a more spiritual way of handleing the situation?
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