View Poll Results: How do you feel about special interst meetings?
Yes, I think they are helpful.
18
72.00%
No, I think they violate traditions.
4
16.00%
unsure.
3
12.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll
Special Interest meetings?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Never, Never land
Posts: 2,851
fight nice boys.
The feed back we are getting from individuals here is amazing. There are so many people for it. With the exception of a few anal so-and-so's around here who are giving the groups a hard time with just about everything.
For whatever reason, the people who serve on the area service committee think the groups are supposed to answer to them, and they keep trying to impose their will. I'll pray for them.
The feed back we are getting from individuals here is amazing. There are so many people for it. With the exception of a few anal so-and-so's around here who are giving the groups a hard time with just about everything.
For whatever reason, the people who serve on the area service committee think the groups are supposed to answer to them, and they keep trying to impose their will. I'll pray for them.
I'm an addict.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hyde Park, NY
Posts: 1,201
Todd, I don't have a personal agenda, and you seem to be somewhat angry with calm discussion that I was trying to have with you, so I'll quit posting on this topic with this. If special interest groups are okay, why would it be wrong to have a "white person only" meeting? Logic is not a selective aparatus, if logic fails in one instance of a problem, it fails in all.
Remember, a closed mind works both ways. I'm open minded towards this discussion, or else I would have been rude instead of discussing this in a rational way. I have never said...."oh yeah, well your wrong".....I just stated MY beliefs, not trying to control anyone. Like I said, there is a woman's meeting in my area, I choose to not go to it unless it's a birthday when they announce "the meeting will be open this weekend for ....'s birthday" if they specifically have to open it to men, wouldn't than make it closed to men in other situations? These are my beliefs, the beliefs of the majority of oldtimers I have discussed this with in my area, and obviously also the beliefs in laurie's area, since their policy is to not have special interest meetings.
It is not a settled issue, so why close off you mind to the possibility that special interest groups may violate tradition 3? Tramp's experience with the american indian meeting is an example of how special interest groups can be used to exclude people.....why bother with them if there goal can be reached through sponsorship and fellowshiping, it's the responsibility of the old timers to reach out to the newcommers and make this happen anyway.
To each his own, I guess...
(todd, I'm not trying to getinto a pissing contest or anything, I truly respect your recovery)
Remember, a closed mind works both ways. I'm open minded towards this discussion, or else I would have been rude instead of discussing this in a rational way. I have never said...."oh yeah, well your wrong".....I just stated MY beliefs, not trying to control anyone. Like I said, there is a woman's meeting in my area, I choose to not go to it unless it's a birthday when they announce "the meeting will be open this weekend for ....'s birthday" if they specifically have to open it to men, wouldn't than make it closed to men in other situations? These are my beliefs, the beliefs of the majority of oldtimers I have discussed this with in my area, and obviously also the beliefs in laurie's area, since their policy is to not have special interest meetings.
It is not a settled issue, so why close off you mind to the possibility that special interest groups may violate tradition 3? Tramp's experience with the american indian meeting is an example of how special interest groups can be used to exclude people.....why bother with them if there goal can be reached through sponsorship and fellowshiping, it's the responsibility of the old timers to reach out to the newcommers and make this happen anyway.
To each his own, I guess...
(todd, I'm not trying to getinto a pissing contest or anything, I truly respect your recovery)
Vision of Hope
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Living on This side of the green!!
Posts: 1,057
Blake what I stated had nothing to do with you, I am not angery, just happens all over the place not just your area or nine, but everywhere.
Sometimes when we bet our lives on this Program, we tend to go the distance. Any thing Racial would never come a side of The Greater Good, so I don't even get into that.
We can always find what is wrong with something, if we just step over just a little to the right or left of ect..., we might see the whole picture..
Through Sponsorship and a Very Broad base, I experience that Freedom. Not everyone gets this way of life for awhile, and once that spark comes look out, just letting others be who they are is one of the hardest things we as HUMANS can do.
Peace,
Todd J.
Blake, its all good brother, Repsect is mutual, besides I can't **** that far, I'm getting old, hehehe!!
Sometimes when we bet our lives on this Program, we tend to go the distance. Any thing Racial would never come a side of The Greater Good, so I don't even get into that.
We can always find what is wrong with something, if we just step over just a little to the right or left of ect..., we might see the whole picture..
Through Sponsorship and a Very Broad base, I experience that Freedom. Not everyone gets this way of life for awhile, and once that spark comes look out, just letting others be who they are is one of the hardest things we as HUMANS can do.
Peace,
Todd J.
Blake, its all good brother, Repsect is mutual, besides I can't **** that far, I'm getting old, hehehe!!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: out there...
Posts: 2,653
[QUOTE=Peter]
Please reread my post, or check tradition five.. the primary purpose being to carry the message. In no way did I imply anything about anyone being turned away from any meetings.
The traditions uphold each other.
autonomy allows for individual meeting format variations.....AS LONG as no harm to NA as a whole is done. What the heck is so complicated about this?
a special interest group may focus on sharing about difficulties surrounding a common issue. without barring any addict from attending.
Originally Posted by Gooch
My understanding of the intent is that as long as the groups primary purpose is upheld, the autonmomy of the group allows for a meeting format of it's choice. In as long as no addict is ever intentionally made to feel separate or unwelcome at any meeting, there is nothing in the traditions that indicates a special interest group is in violation. /quote]
Gooch, I agree that every group has the right to exercise their own autonomy and structure meeting formats to include discussions on particular issues but I cannot see how autonomy gives a group the right to turn people in need of help away from a meeting. Addict can die because of that kind of thing.
Gooch, I agree that every group has the right to exercise their own autonomy and structure meeting formats to include discussions on particular issues but I cannot see how autonomy gives a group the right to turn people in need of help away from a meeting. Addict can die because of that kind of thing.
Please reread my post, or check tradition five.. the primary purpose being to carry the message. In no way did I imply anything about anyone being turned away from any meetings.
The traditions uphold each other.
autonomy allows for individual meeting format variations.....AS LONG as no harm to NA as a whole is done. What the heck is so complicated about this?
a special interest group may focus on sharing about difficulties surrounding a common issue. without barring any addict from attending.
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Leaving Sparta
Posts: 2,912
Originally Posted by Gooch
In no way did I imply anything about anyone being turned away from any meetings.
If you want to have a "special interest" meeting that still allows other addicts to attend then by all means go for it. Heck I might even attend a few of 'em myself.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: out there...
Posts: 2,653
Sorry Peter. I saw your reference to my point about autonomy and the question as to how autonomy could ever be used to justify turning an addict away, and misinterpreted it. Once again the unavailablity of real time face to face discussion might have opened a can of worms. ( good thing I had my daily dose of ice cubes handy.)
Thanks for clarifying dude.
Thanks for clarifying dude.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 1
Men's, Women's, LGBT, and other groups with regard to the 12 Traditions...
Many opinions have been shared in regard to this subject. There are those who constantly quote, "Opinions are like a@@holes, everyone's got one." However, what these people won't tell you is that opinions based on well established facts and sound critical thinking tend to be a bit more reliable. Consequentially, these are the very same people that shoot their mouths off without doing their homework; much like the annoying morons at your local meeting sharing about Steps and Traditions they've never worked...
With that in mind, let's look at the Traditions that apply in this matter. I'll use the AA version, due to the fact that they own them, and all other derivative Fellowships adapt and reprint them by permission of AA World Services, Inc., which means the same rules apply across the board. By the way, (and in case you're wondering) the above disclaimer is in the fine print on the back of the NA How It Works meeting sheet, the NA 12 Traditions meeting sheet, and on the publisher's page of both the Basic Text and It Works How & Why. Like Jimmy Page said to Robert Plant while listening to Little Richard, "You can't escape your roots". If you're offended by the inconvenient truth that plagiarism is the true "NA Clarity Statement", go talk to your sponsor; provided that they're not guilty of the same denial. Otherwise, feel free to substitute "AA" and "alcoholic" with the native terms of your particular 12 Step Fellowship, since that's what you're doing with the Steps and Traditions anyway. Here's the 411...
Tradition 3 states that "The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking." The long form of Tradition 3 further states that, "Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an AA Group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation." If the particular group is using AA General Service Conference approved literature, and is not in violation of any other Traditions, they are still an AA group, regardless of (an NA phrase works here) "age, race, sexual identity, creed, religion, or lack of religion"...
The aforementioned statement is guaranteed in the Long Form of Tradition 4. It reads, "With respect to its own affairs, each AA group should be responsible to no other authority than its own conscience. But when its plans concern the welfare of neighboring groups also, those groups ought to be consulted. And no group, regional committee, or individual should ever take any action that might greatly affect AA as a whole without conferring with the Trustees of the General Service Board. On such issues our common welfare is paramount."
For the sake of simplicity, let's break this down. Each group is only responsible to it's own group conscience. Men's, Women's, LGBT, and other groups do not in any way adversely affect our common welfare, which according to Tradition 1 is AA unity. Since all groups exist to fulfill our 5th Tradition, which is"To carry the message to the alcoholic who still suffers", the claim that these groups "restrict membership" is wholly inaccurate for the following reason:
These groups, by their very nature attract alcoholics that the majority of regular groups would not, thereby providing a positive asset to our unity rather than posing a threat to it. This is precisely why that these groups do not violate Traditions.
Of course, there's always going to be the minority of imbeciles that whine about the types of groups that they wouldn't even attend in the first place; which, consequentially, is a practice that constitutes the real jeopardy to AA unity. This proves beyond the painfully obvious that the Steps and Traditions will fix spiritual sickness, but provides no remedy for abject stupidity...
With that in mind, let's look at the Traditions that apply in this matter. I'll use the AA version, due to the fact that they own them, and all other derivative Fellowships adapt and reprint them by permission of AA World Services, Inc., which means the same rules apply across the board. By the way, (and in case you're wondering) the above disclaimer is in the fine print on the back of the NA How It Works meeting sheet, the NA 12 Traditions meeting sheet, and on the publisher's page of both the Basic Text and It Works How & Why. Like Jimmy Page said to Robert Plant while listening to Little Richard, "You can't escape your roots". If you're offended by the inconvenient truth that plagiarism is the true "NA Clarity Statement", go talk to your sponsor; provided that they're not guilty of the same denial. Otherwise, feel free to substitute "AA" and "alcoholic" with the native terms of your particular 12 Step Fellowship, since that's what you're doing with the Steps and Traditions anyway. Here's the 411...
Tradition 3 states that "The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking." The long form of Tradition 3 further states that, "Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an AA Group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation." If the particular group is using AA General Service Conference approved literature, and is not in violation of any other Traditions, they are still an AA group, regardless of (an NA phrase works here) "age, race, sexual identity, creed, religion, or lack of religion"...
The aforementioned statement is guaranteed in the Long Form of Tradition 4. It reads, "With respect to its own affairs, each AA group should be responsible to no other authority than its own conscience. But when its plans concern the welfare of neighboring groups also, those groups ought to be consulted. And no group, regional committee, or individual should ever take any action that might greatly affect AA as a whole without conferring with the Trustees of the General Service Board. On such issues our common welfare is paramount."
For the sake of simplicity, let's break this down. Each group is only responsible to it's own group conscience. Men's, Women's, LGBT, and other groups do not in any way adversely affect our common welfare, which according to Tradition 1 is AA unity. Since all groups exist to fulfill our 5th Tradition, which is"To carry the message to the alcoholic who still suffers", the claim that these groups "restrict membership" is wholly inaccurate for the following reason:
These groups, by their very nature attract alcoholics that the majority of regular groups would not, thereby providing a positive asset to our unity rather than posing a threat to it. This is precisely why that these groups do not violate Traditions.
Of course, there's always going to be the minority of imbeciles that whine about the types of groups that they wouldn't even attend in the first place; which, consequentially, is a practice that constitutes the real jeopardy to AA unity. This proves beyond the painfully obvious that the Steps and Traditions will fix spiritual sickness, but provides no remedy for abject stupidity...
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 1,742
I just started reading about the traditions. When I read Tradition 3 in the little pamphlet handed to me last night at a meeting, I was astounded to read about "special interest" groups within AA that go beyond male/female or lbgtq. I began imagining all kinds of subversive sub-groups.
I admit I was getting my knickers in a twist after reading Tradition 3.
And then I read Tradition 4. Whew. I'm cool with the idea of special interest groups now because none of them can affect other groups or AA as a whole.
Play ball!
I admit I was getting my knickers in a twist after reading Tradition 3.
And then I read Tradition 4. Whew. I'm cool with the idea of special interest groups now because none of them can affect other groups or AA as a whole.
Play ball!
Last edited by Carpathia; 08-16-2017 at 09:29 AM. Reason: brevity
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