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Old 06-04-2005, 03:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
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in na there is a dillema

YOUR AT A NA MEETING WITH THE CLARITY/IDENTITY STATEMENT IN THE FORMAT,,, In Narcotics Anonymous, we are presented with a dilemma. When NA members identify themselves as "addicts and alcoholics," "cross-addicted," or talk about living "clean and sober," the clarity of the NA message is blurred. To speak in this manner suggests that there are two diseases; that one drug is separate from the rest. Narcotics Anonymous makes no distinction between drugs. Our identification as addicts is all-inclusive, allowing us to concentrate on our similarities, not our differences.

ITS YOUR TURN TO READ,,.UP COMES ONE OF THESE PHRASES/WORDS,,NA,,BASIC TEXT,5th EDITION,,,,PG.189,,DRINKING ALCOHOL,,PG.174,,ALCOHOLICS,,PG.130,,I DRANK,DROPPED,,SNORTED,,SMOKED,,AND SNIFFED,,PG.133,,DRUGS AND ALCOHOL,,PG.129,VODKA,PG.150,131,GETTING LOADED,,PG.135,ADDICTS AND ALCOHOLICS,,CLEAN AND DRY,,HAPPY AND SOBER,,PG,141,,,USEING PILLS,,PG 127,,JUNKIES,DOPEFIENDS,PILL HEADS,,COKEFREAKS,,,,,PG.133,,JUNKIE AND A JUICER,,HERE IS A GOOD ONE,,PG. 162,,I BECAME SOBER AND CLEAN,,
YOU ARE PRESENTED WITH A DILEMMA,,,WHAT DO YOU DO??
A.,,,,,,,,,,,,PASS AND HOPE SOME ONE ELSE STARTS TO READ/?
B.,,,,,,,,,,,,,START TO MUMBLE SO THEY CANT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?
C.,,,,,,,,,,,,,CHANGE THE RINGER ON YOUR CELL PHONE SO IT RINGS AND WALK OUT OF THE ROOM/???
D.,,,,,,,,,,,,,SHOVE YOUR FINGER DOWN YOUR THROAT AND THROW UP ON THE FLOOR,,
E.,,,,,,,,,,,,,SQUEEZE OUT A FART AND RUN TO THE BATHROOM??
F.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,CLOSE THE BOOK AND SAY TO THE GROUP,,THE NA TEXT IS FULL OF PHRASES AND WORDS THAT THE GROUP SUGGESTS WE DO NOT USE,,WHY DOES THIS NA GROUP SUGGEST WE DO NOT USE THESE WORDS/PHRASES WHEN NA APPROVED THESE WORDS/PHRASES??
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Old 06-04-2005, 05:22 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Welcome back Bruce.

just out of curiosity... how do you handle this?
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Old 06-04-2005, 05:50 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Wecome Back Bruce!!
Or you can attend the group conscience and ask them about what Tradition 2 an 3 and 5 mean. Or maybe Practice Step 3- Make that decision to Let it go.
I attended a group that read the Clarity statement and the Person who read it Identified as an Alcoholic/Addict- Made sense to me. we as members have opinions, If its not our Home Group, we are not part of the Group Conscience, there "Loving God" or NA Guide(you know the guy that tells everyone what to do) wants it there.

Peace,
Todd J.
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Old 06-04-2005, 06:15 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I am just a freakin' addict.

This is supposed to be a simple program, stop over analyzing sh*t, you're gonna make yourself nuts for nothing.
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Old 06-04-2005, 07:22 AM   #5 (permalink)
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its all about 'the only requirement for membership....'

and our program will evolve
i have been in groups recently where "many of us viewed alcohol differently..." now gets the word "pot" added right behind "alcohol"

i think we're gonna be ok as long as we have die hard purists as well as the boundary stretching renegades- [although it really helps when we can all laugh about ourselves...then i KNOW god is present!!!]
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Old 06-04-2005, 07:53 AM   #6 (permalink)
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He's here Mack I just caught a huge grin reading your post!
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Old 06-04-2005, 09:05 AM   #7 (permalink)
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"Autonomy" allows group concience to adapt whatever meeting format they feel comfortable with, even if it includes reading the "Clarity statement."

"Tradition 3" allows me the right to stay in that meeting even if I want to refer to myself as addict/alcoholic.

The "clarity statement" is not a RULE but rather a suggested format for sharing.

HOWEVER, there are some NA Nazis who may raise an eyebrow or two if they hear the clarity statement being ignored.

The important question here is: What should I do that is best for my own recovery and for the overall good of the group ?

Do I try to conform to the "clarity statement" or do I call a group concience meeting to try and have it removed because I feel it is a violation of the Spiritual Principles of NA ?

Will I be content with the final ruling of the "Group concience ?"

We all have choices to make as a member of NA and if I make the crucial mistake of engaging in a power struggle with individuals at the meeting because my ego won't allow me to accept the way things are done then I may be signing my own death warrant.

As addicts we have a tendency to complicate the hell out of everything when the truth is we need to get with our Higher Power and ask for guidance so that we will make the right decisions.

Only three things can result from the continued debate over the "Clarity statement."

1) Call a group concience meeting and gracefully accept their rulings.

2) Move on. Find a meeting that more suits your needs.

3) Stay and continue to be a disruptive factor in the fellowship.

The "Clarity statement" "Disease or not" " Identification of Higher Power" These are all longstanding NA issues that I feel will be with us for a long time and I have been an outspoken candidate on all of these councils.........every single one of these debates will end in a split decision.

Today I choose to take a back seat and allow NA to evolve in it's own way. Today my role in NA is to stay clean and help to be a unifying factor in the meetings.

Recovery is about change and if I cannot allow my ego to accept the decisions of the group concience then I am only wasting my time.
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Old 06-04-2005, 12:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
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My experience is that a drug is a drug. Alcohol seems to be a different beast. When I drink I am affected in different ways than any dope I've done. I like AA because there is a singleness of purpose and we know that we cannot help any other type of addiction. If someone applies the steps to something other than alcohol, yay. I have tried to sponsor pure addicts and I really cannot relate to them. I believe that the chemicals physically change the brain or that the thinking process is different to begin with. It is easy to go deeply in to analysis on this or just let it be. Perhaps NA is trying to be too broad and inclusive to all. AA is "restrictive" and that is cool with me as I live today.
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Old 06-04-2005, 01:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubtingthomas
I have tried to sponsor pure addicts and I really cannot relate to them. I believe that the chemicals physically change the brain or that the thinking process is different to begin with. It is easy to go deeply in to analysis on this or just let it be. .

Hi DT,

Im Aaron, a recovering addict...

Welcome to SR...

With regard to your quote, up there, you say that you really cannot relate to pure addicts....

I would like to respectfully ask you to refrain from bashing Richey, over in the threads that he posted in the SUBSTANCE ABUSE forum... He's going through something that many "Pure Addicts", CAN relate too...


Rather then addict bashing, please just let it be...

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...5&page=2&pp=20 (All my savings gone and coughing up blood...)

biting my tongue..... which is apparently 2 feet long....
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Old 06-04-2005, 02:44 PM   #10 (permalink)
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peter,you wrote this


Autonomy" allows group concience to adapt whatever meeting format they feel comfortable with, even if it includes reading the "Clarity statement."

peter,,it works how and why,tradition 4,,pg. 155,,autonomy does not relieve groups of their obligation to observe and apply the spiritual principles embodied in the traditions,,basic text 5th edition tradition 4 pg 63,,a narcotics anonymous group is any group that meets reguarly,at a specified place and time,for the purpose of recovery,provided that it follows the twelve steps and 12 traditions of narcotics anonymous,,

THE NA TRADITIONS,,THE BOOK IT WORKS HOW AND WHY,,TRAD.8 PG 188,,WHAT IS NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS,AFTER ALL,BUT A FELLOWSHIP OF ADDICTS FREELY SHAREING WITH ONE ANOTHER THE SIMPLE MESSAGE OF THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS SUGGEST WE DO NOT SHARE OUR OWN EXPERIENCE,IT SUGGESTS WE ALTER OUR OWN EXPERIENCE.TRADITION 9 ,,PG.193,WE OUGHT NOT CREATE A GOVERNING HIERACHY,A TOP DOWN BUREAUCRACY DICTATING TO OUR GROUPS AND MEMBERS,,DEF.OF DICTATE,TRANSCRIBE,,DEF.OF TRANSCRIBE,TO REWRITE,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS DICTATE/TRANSCRIBE,,OUR OWN EXPERIENCE.,/MESSAGE ,TRAD.10.PG.198,EVEN OUR LEADERS ARE ONLY TRUSTED SERVANTS,WITH NO POWER TO TELL INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS WHAT TO DO THINK OR SAY,NA MEMBERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES,TO DEVELOPE THIER OWN OPINIANS,AND TO EXPRESS THOSE OPINIONS AS THEY SEE FIT.,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS SUGGEST THAT NA HAS THE POWER TO TELL US WHAT TO DO ,THINK AND SAY,,TRAD.11 PG.203,CLEARLY OUR TRADITIONS ARE JUST AS CONCERNED WITH OUR PUBLIC RELATIONS AS THEY ARE WITH OUR INTERNAL RELATIONS,,PG 208,EACH OF US HAS OUR OWN LIFE,OUR OWN WORDS ,AND OUR OWN STORY,ALL ADDING DIMENSIONH AND COLOR TO THE MESSAGE OF OUR FELLOWSHIP,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS SUGGEST WE DO NOT USE OUR OWN WORDS,,WHEN TRADITION 11 SUGGESTS WE DO ,,,,,,,,THE NA TRADITIONS ARE ABOUT FREEDOM,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS ARE ABOUT CONTROL,,THE DEFINITION OF GOVERN,,TO CONTROL,,NA GROUPS OR COMMITEES THAT USE THE CLARITY STATEMENTS IN THEIR FOMATS ARE SUGGESTING THAT NA GOVERNS,,, THE NA TRADITIONS,,THE BOOK IT WORKS HOW AND WHY,,TRAD.8 PG 188,,WHAT IS NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS,AFTER ALL,BUT A FELLOWSHIP OF ADDICTS FREELY SHAREING WITH ONE ANOTHER THE SIMPLE MESSAGE OF THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS SUGGEST WE DO NOT SHARE OUR OWN EXPERIENCE,IT SUGGESTS WE ALTER OUR OWN EXPERIENCE.TRADITION 9 ,,PG.193,WE OUGHT NOT CREATE A GOVERNING HIERACHY,A TOP DOWN BUREAUCRACY DICTATING TO OUR GROUPS AND MEMBERS,,DEF.OF DICTATE,TRANSCRIBE,,DEF.OF TRANSCRIBE,TO REWRITE,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS DICTATE/TRANSCRIBE,,OUR OWN EXPERIENCE.,/MESSAGE ,TRAD.10.PG.198,EVEN OUR LEADERS ARE ONLY TRUSTED SERVANTS,WITH NO POWER TO TELL INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS WHAT TO DO THINK OR SAY,NA MEMBERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES,TO DEVELOPE THIER OWN OPINIANS,AND TO EXPRESS THOSE OPINIONS AS THEY SEE FIT.,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS SUGGEST THAT NA HAS THE POWER TO TELL US WHAT TO DO ,THINK AND SAY,,TRAD.11 PG.203,CLEARLY OUR TRADITIONS ARE JUST AS CONCERNED WITH OUR PUBLIC RELATIONS AS THEY ARE WITH OUR INTERNAL RELATIONS,,PG 208,EACH OF US HAS OUR OWN LIFE,OUR OWN WORDS ,AND OUR OWN STORY,ALL ADDING DIMENSIONH AND COLOR TO THE MESSAGE OF OUR FELLOWSHIP,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS SUGGEST WE DO NOT USE OUR OWN WORDS,,WHEN TRADITION 11 SUGGESTS WE DO ,,,,,,,,THE NA TRADITIONS ARE ABOUT FREEDOM,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS ARE ABOUT CONTROL,,THE DEFINITION OF GOVERN,,TO CONTROL,,NA GROUPS OR COMMITEES THAT USE THE CLARITY STATEMENTS IN THEIR FOMATS ARE SUGGESTING THAT NA GOVERNS,,,

peter,,clearly ,all clarity/identity statements conflict with the freedom that the na traditions offer,,so basicly peter,,,,,any group that uses the clarity /identity statements in thier formats are clearly not following the na traditions,,according to the basic text it is not an na group at all,,

huggs bruce
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Old 06-04-2005, 02:46 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Peter, :bravo

I love what you said.
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Old 06-04-2005, 03:02 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Hey Bruce,
Have you worked a step lately?
Have you helped a newcomer stay clean today?
Have you done a selfless act with out telling anyone you did it?
Have you called your sponsor today?
Are you having any personal problems that you are avoiding by acting out in other ways that feed your disease?
Have you looked at a defect of character?
Have you asked God to remove a shortcoming?
Have you gone off track where you need get back to basics?
Have you told someone you loved them?
Can you asnswer these questions for me Bruce?

Peace,
Todd J.
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Old 06-04-2005, 03:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
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perfectionism is just another "ism" Bruce...

I like what Aa vark said...
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Old 06-05-2005, 07:37 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Todd,

Ah, Thank you!

Finally some 'questions' I understand, and can learn something from.

Much Love: A newcomer
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Old 06-05-2005, 09:14 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUCE
peter,you wrote this


Autonomy" allows group concience to adapt whatever meeting format they feel comfortable with, even if it includes reading the "Clarity statement."

peter,,it works how and why,tradition 4,,pg. 155,,autonomy does not relieve groups of their obligation to observe and apply the spiritual principles embodied in the traditions,,basic text 5th edition tradition 4 pg 63,,a narcotics anonymous group is any group that meets reguarly,at a specified place and time,for the purpose of recovery,provided that it follows the twelve steps and 12 traditions of narcotics anonymous,,

THE NA TRADITIONS,,THE BOOK IT WORKS HOW AND WHY,,TRAD.8 PG 188,,WHAT IS NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS,AFTER ALL,BUT A FELLOWSHIP OF ADDICTS FREELY SHAREING WITH ONE ANOTHER THE SIMPLE MESSAGE OF THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS SUGGEST WE DO NOT SHARE OUR OWN EXPERIENCE,IT SUGGESTS WE ALTER OUR OWN EXPERIENCE.
funny, i dont see that in the clarity statement. to me, it says thta we have one disease and when anda's come into our meetings and say alcoholic or dopefiend, those anda's appear to suggest to the already confused newcomer that he has more than one disease and his problem is substance specific

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUCE
TRADITION 9 ,,PG.193,WE OUGHT NOT CREATE A GOVERNING HIERACHY,A TOP DOWN BUREAUCRACY DICTATING TO OUR GROUPS AND MEMBERS,,DEF.OF DICTATE,TRANSCRIBE,,DEF.OF TRANSCRIBE,TO REWRITE,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS DICTATE/TRANSCRIBE,,OUR OWN EXPERIENCE.,/MESSAGE
again, i dont see where your comingfrom


.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUCE
,TRAD.10.PG.198,EVEN OUR LEADERS ARE ONLY TRUSTED SERVANTS,WITH NO POWER TO TELL INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS WHAT TO DO THINK OR SAY,NA MEMBERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES,TO DEVELOPE THIER OWN OPINIANS,AND TO EXPRESS THOSE OPINIONS AS THEY SEE FIT.,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS SUGGEST THAT NA HAS THE POWER TO TELL US WHAT TO DO ,THINK AND SAY,,
still dont see it


.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUCE
TRAD.11 PG.203,CLEARLY OUR TRADITIONS ARE JUST AS CONCERNED WITH OUR PUBLIC RELATIONS AS THEY ARE WITH OUR INTERNAL RELATIONS,,PG 208,EACH OF US HAS OUR OWN LIFE,OUR OWN WORDS ,AND OUR OWN STORY,ALL ADDING DIMENSIONH AND COLOR TO THE MESSAGE OF OUR FELLOWSHIP,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS SUGGEST WE DO NOT USE OUR OWN WORDS,
are we taliing about the same thing here?


.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUCE


WHEN TRADITION 11 SUGGESTS WE DO ,,,,,,,,THE NA TRADITIONS ARE ABOUT FREEDOM,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS ARE ABOUT CONTROL,
to me, the clarity statement is about letting people know that NA is about addiction, and not a specific substance.

but you know as well as i, to get here, we had to do some pretty heavy substance use, but this substance use is just a symptom of our addiction.


.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUCE
,THE DEFINITION OF GOVERN,,TO CONTROL,,NA GROUPS OR COMMITEES THAT USE THE CLARITY STATEMENTS IN THEIR FOMATS ARE SUGGESTING THAT NA GOVERNS,,,
wrong again. my home group uses the clarity statement, adn we don't suggest that na governs in the least. ok well, sometimes at business meetings we get into loving discussions on who f*cked up last week and didnt get the coffee comittment covered, but thats hardley governing


.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUCE
THE NA TRADITIONS,,THE BOOK IT WORKS HOW AND WHY,,TRAD.8 PG 188,,WHAT IS NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS,AFTER ALL,BUT A FELLOWSHIP OF ADDICTS FREELY SHAREING WITH ONE ANOTHER THE SIMPLE MESSAGE OF THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS SUGGEST WE DO NOT SHARE OUR OWN EXPERIENCE,IT SUGGESTS WE ALTER OUR OWN EXPERIENCE.TRADITION 9 ,,PG.193,WE OUGHT NOT CREATE A GOVERNING HIERACHY,A TOP DOWN BUREAUCRACY DICTATING TO OUR GROUPS AND MEMBERS,,DEF.OF DICTATE,TRANSCRIBE,,DEF.OF TRANSCRIBE,TO REWRITE,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS DICTATE/TRANSCRIBE,,OUR OWN EXPERIENCE.,/MESSAGE ,
do u like hearing yourself talk or something?


.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUCE
TRAD.10.PG.198,EVEN OUR LEADERS ARE ONLY TRUSTED SERVANTS,WITH NO POWER TO TELL INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS WHAT TO DO THINK OR SAY,NA MEMBERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES,TO DEVELOPE THIER OWN OPINIANS,AND TO EXPRESS THOSE OPINIONS AS THEY SEE FIT.,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS SUGGEST THAT NA HAS THE POWER TO TELL US WHAT TO DO ,THINK AND SAY,,
more disillusion


.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUCE
TRAD.11 PG.203,CLEARLY OUR TRADITIONS ARE JUST AS CONCERNED WITH OUR PUBLIC RELATIONS AS THEY ARE WITH OUR INTERNAL RELATIONS,,PG 208,EACH OF US HAS OUR OWN LIFE,OUR OWN WORDS ,AND OUR OWN STORY,ALL ADDING DIMENSIONH AND COLOR TO THE MESSAGE OF OUR FELLOWSHIP,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS SUGGEST WE DO NOT USE OUR OWN WORDS,,
by the time you get to na, you prolly have already come to the realization that drugs were only a symptom. if you didnt, then by the time you worked the FIRST step you did. after all, it says powerless of OUR ADDICTION, not mine, not yours but ours, and it doesnt say drugs, or alcohol or crack or heroin. the clarity statement is not taking away from anythin personal, to nme, it is emphasizing that we are not unique and we have one disease. no where in the clarity statement does it say NOT to use or SUGGEST NOT to use our own words


.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUCE
WHEN TRADITION 11 SUGGESTS WE DO ,,,,,,,,THE NA TRADITIONS ARE ABOUT FREEDOM,,THE CLARITY STATEMENTS ARE ABOUT CONTROL,,THE DEFINITION OF GOVERN,,TO CONTROL,,NA GROUPS OR COMMITEES THAT USE THE CLARITY STATEMENTS IN THEIR FOMATS ARE SUGGESTING THAT NA GOVERNS,,,

peter,,clearly ,all clarity/identity statements conflict with the freedom that the na traditions offer,,so basicly peter,,,,,any group that uses the clarity /identity statements in thier formats are clearly not following the na traditions,,according to the basic text it is not an na group at all,,

huggs bruce
where does it CLEARLY say that a group who uses the clarity statement is not an na group?

CLEARLY you are disillusioned.

CLEARLY you need to work on the questions godsonmyside has presented to you

Quote:
Originally Posted by godsonmyside
Have you worked a step lately?
Have you helped a newcomer stay clean today?
Have you done a selfless act with out telling anyone you did it?
Have you called your sponsor today?
Are you having any personal problems that you are avoiding by acting out in other ways that feed your disease?
Have you looked at a defect of character?
Have you asked God to remove a shortcoming?
Have you gone off track where you need get back to basics?
Have you told someone you loved them?
Can you asnswer these questions for me Bruce?
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Old 06-05-2005, 01:06 PM   #16 (permalink)
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"There are no strings attached to NA."

You can quit pulling them anytime.
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Old 06-05-2005, 06:21 PM   #17 (permalink)
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euphoria,,you wrote this,,

funny, i dont see that in the clarity statement. to me, it says thta we have one disease and when anda's come into our meetings and say alcoholic or dopefiend, those anda's appear to suggest to the already confused newcomer that he has more than one disease and his problem is substance specific


euphoria,,you are stateing that the na text 5th edition is suggesting to the allready confused new comer that he has more than one disease and his problem is drug specific,,

,,NA,,BASIC TEXT,5th EDITION,,,,PG.189,,DRINKING ALCOHOL,,PG.174,,ALCOHOLICS,,PG.130,,I DRANK,DROPPED,,SNORTED,,SMOKED,,AND SNIFFED,,PG.133,,DRUGS AND ALCOHOL,,PG.129,VODKA,PG.150,131,GETTING LOADED,,PG.135,ADDICTS AND ALCOHOLICS,,CLEAN AND DRY,,HAPPY AND SOBER,,PG,141,,,USEING PILLS,,PG 127,,JUNKIES,DOPEFIENDS,PILL HEADS,,COKEFREAKS,,,,,PG.133,,JUNKIE AND A JUICER,,HERE IS A GOOD ONE,,PG. 162,,I BECAME SOBER AND CLEAN,,




huggs bruce


Last edited by Gooch; 06-05-2005 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 06-05-2005, 07:30 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUCE
YOUR AT A NA MEETING WITH THE CLARITY/IDENTITY STATEMENT IN THE FORMAT,,, In Narcotics Anonymous, we are presented with a dilemma. When NA members identify themselves as "addicts and alcoholics," "cross-addicted," or talk about living "clean and sober," the clarity of the NA message is blurred. To speak in this manner suggests that there are two diseases; that one drug is separate from the rest. Narcotics Anonymous makes no distinction between drugs. Our identification as addicts is all-inclusive, allowing us to concentrate on our similarities, not our differences.

ITS YOUR TURN TO READ,,.UP COMES ONE OF THESE PHRASES/WORDS,,NA,,BASIC TEXT,5th EDITION,,,,PG.189,,DRINKING ALCOHOL,,PG.174,,ALCOHOLICS,,PG.130,,I DRANK,DROPPED,,SNORTED,,SMOKED,,AND SNIFFED,,PG.133,,DRUGS AND ALCOHOL,,PG.129,VODKA,PG.150,131,GETTING LOADED,,PG.135,ADDICTS AND ALCOHOLICS,,CLEAN AND DRY,,HAPPY AND SOBER,,PG,141,,,USEING PILLS,,PG 127,,JUNKIES,DOPEFIENDS,PILL HEADS,,COKEFREAKS,,,,,PG.133,,JUNKIE AND A JUICER,,HERE IS A GOOD ONE,,PG. 162,,I BECAME SOBER AND CLEAN,,
YOU ARE PRESENTED WITH A DILEMMA,,,WHAT DO YOU DO??
A.,,,,,,,,,,,,PASS AND HOPE SOME ONE ELSE STARTS TO READ/?
B.,,,,,,,,,,,,,START TO MUMBLE SO THEY CANT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?
C.,,,,,,,,,,,,,CHANGE THE RINGER ON YOUR CELL PHONE SO IT RINGS AND WALK OUT OF THE ROOM/???
D.,,,,,,,,,,,,,SHOVE YOUR FINGER DOWN YOUR THROAT AND THROW UP ON THE FLOOR,,
E.,,,,,,,,,,,,,SQUEEZE OUT A FART AND RUN TO THE BATHROOM??
F.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,CLOSE THE BOOK AND SAY TO THE GROUP,,THE NA TEXT IS FULL OF PHRASES AND WORDS THAT THE GROUP SUGGESTS WE DO NOT USE,,WHY DOES THIS NA GROUP SUGGEST WE DO NOT USE THESE WORDS/PHRASES WHEN NA APPROVED THESE WORDS/PHRASES??
You still haven't answered my question as to how you handle it Bruce.
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Old 06-05-2005, 11:08 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUCE
euphoria,,you wrote this,,

funny, i dont see that in the clarity statement. to me, it says thta we have one disease and when anda's come into our meetings and say alcoholic or dopefiend, those anda's appear to suggest to the already confused newcomer that he has more than one disease and his problem is substance specific


euphoria,,you are stateing that the na text 5th edition is suggesting to the allready confused new comer that he has more than one disease and his problem is drug specific,,
uhmm...

no, thats not what i said. are we reading the same thing?

ok dood, look, i agree that there may be some things in the basic text, escpecially in the personal stories, that may seem to contradict the clarity statement, or na principles if your a "purist". but even jimmy k called himself a "recovered alcholoic and an addict". personally, i think couches get "recovered" not addicts, and when i hear someone say "anda" ... well... anyway....

you know, i am not even sure where that clarity statement origniated from. i heard it came from some convention somewhere and it jsut caught on. i dunno really, just a rumor i heard. but here is a clarity statement i heard at other meetings:

"As a fellowship, we must continue to strive to move forward by not stubbornly clinging to one radical extreme or the other. Our members who have been unintentionally blurring the NA message by using drug-specific language such as "sobriety," "alcoholic," "clean and sober," "dope fiend," etc., could help by identifying simply and clearly as addicts, and using the words "clean," "clean time," and "recovery," which imply no particular substance. We all could help by referring to only our own literature at meetings, thereby avoiding any implied endorsement or affiliation. Our principles stand on their own. For the sake of our development as a fellowship and the personal recovery of our members, our approach to the problem of addiction must shine through clearly in what we say and do at meetings."

It came from here: http://www.na.org/bulletins/bull13-r.htm
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Old 06-06-2005, 04:17 AM   #20 (permalink)
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If we just remember the simple stuff and focus on that we'll be ok.

We only want to know about what you want to do about your problem and how we can help.

Bruce we keep asking yu questions and you don't answer.

If you don't know what you want to do about your problem......

How can we help?
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