help my find a way to stop using Vicodin

[wichitagirl]

Problem: my DOC is Vicodin. Not was; is. Just Vicodin. Not booze or meth or anything else. Vicodin ES.

~ Over the last 2 years (hooked following a surgery) the stuff has come to make my day... it makes me smile, it lifts my mood, it elevates my outlook.... in short, it has become my little bottle of happiness.

The supply can come for quite a while longer. I used to be able to decrease the dosage to manageable (the druggie talkin', I know) levels - almost get off of it, but then the doses would always go back up again within a few short weeks. Now I'm not even able to get the daily numbers down at all. And lately they've increased to such an extent that I have decreased....... into myself. I've no friends to speak of, and I want this stuff OUT of my life. For good.

But the "pros" still outweigh the "cons"!!!

The problem, is, I can't stop 'cause I can't find a good enough reason to stop! [the druggie:] Why should I? I'm not 'hurting' anyone with my good moods, I'm not going to get busted, I don't fall on the floor in front of my kids, no one knows unless I tell them, they're very easy to hide, I maintain all my facilties very well AND

I need someone who's been there to tell me where to find the thinking/justification/strength to get off of this sh*t that's taken over my life!

Right now, the good moods are winning, but I know

I

MUST

STOP!!

This is bad for my health, it's running me into the poorhouse (my poor CC), it's probably killing my liver, I've no friends, I have no sex drive...... bunches of reasons, but none are strong enough to overpower the desire to smile.

Is there someone out there who can tell me if they've been where I am ......and what I can do/say to myself to get off this stuff?

Is an inpatient program where I have ABSOLUTELY NO ACCESS to the stuff the only option?


Lordy, I hope not

[eddie z.]

Originally Posted by wichitagirl

what I can do/say to myself to get off this stuff?

Phoenix Narcotics Anonymous
Have you tried NA? That would be my first suggestion. There's nothing like face-to-face support!

Inpatient is not your only option, but is not a bad idea. I was in residential treatment in another state for over 3 months and it was great! So don't rule that out.

Yes, I've been where you are. Opiates had completely taken over my existence, I could not control my use, and I did not know how to stop. Have you tried cold turkey? I used to run out alot and say I wasn't going to get anymore, so I'd go through withdrawal but then pick back up again shortly.

You've named a lot of negative reasons to stop, like it probably IS killing your liver, now think of some POSITIVES. What would you do, what would your life be like without Vicodin? More money, a sex drive (I know all about that, too!), friends.

The thing that concerns me most in your post is your asking what YOU can do, what YOU can say to yourself. I know I CAN'T do this alone. I definitely need help. I get that in Narcotics Anonymous and also from professionals. I strongly suggest you come clean with the doctor/s and pharmacists giving the drugs. They can help you, too, but only if you're honest with them about the problems you're having. Withdrawal can be made bearable, and abstinence can be made easier with medical help.

I have to go to bed now, but you know you can PM me if you like, OK? Hang in there! I'm wishing you all the best.
Peace, love, and hugs,
Eddie

[wichitagirl]

Eddie,

Thanks for continuing to support me.....

I appreciate what you're saying about my needing to get help, but ultimately, doesn't this choice lie with me?

I just need to get a good head game going. I know this isn't anything you all can do FOR me, but I was hoping to hear what - if anything - you all said to yourselves to get off of this garbage.

Thanks all ~

[Paulie]

Originally Posted by wichitagirl

But the "pros" still outweigh the "cons"!!!

This is bad for my health, it's running me into the poorhouse (my poor CC), it's probably killing my liver, I've no friends, I have no sex drive...... bunches of reasons, but none are strong enough to overpower the desire to smile.

Well those cons look like they outweigh the pros to me. Our DOC was different but the addiction and the garbage we tell ourselves is the same.

As long as you are telling yourself that the pros outweigh the cons, you won't quit. Start telling yourself the opposit.

And for me, I thought no one knew, I thought I hid it well, but usually everytime I thought that, I was wrong. I learned that after getting sober.

Give yourself a break, give yourself a shot at sobriety. Hit a meeting like was already suggested, what have you got to lose?

[eddie z.]

You're welcome, of course, WG!

I know towards the end of my using I didn't feel like I had a choice. That's the compulsion part of the disease of addiction. I would "decide" to stop over and over but continue to use. I had to look outside myself for help. It didn't matter what I said to myself; the disease always took over.

I think if you "get a good head game going," it would be just that—a game. A game that you're likely to lose. I'm not trying to insult or criticize you in any way. I'm just saying what I found to be true for me and many other addicts. I can't do this alone. I wish you the best still.

If you need any detox tips, let me know!
Peace, love, and hugs,
Eddie

[Mastrik]

I had the same DOC (hydrocodone) and cannot give you any game but can share my experience. Just for the record I am 39 days clean off of everything.
My "bottom" came a little over a month ago when I ran out (I had several connects with large 'scripts and my addiction became so bad I was using all of theres within a matter of weeks). I simply became tired of being dope sick when I was out and broke.
I had known for a while that I had a problem as when I did my taxes last year it became apparent that I had spent more money on those things then I made the year previous (really).
I did not have to hit the bottom bottom like so many others have on these boards and in the NA rooms. I saw where this was going. I too had a mental list of pros and cons, but when I was honest with myself the cons outweighed the pros, big time. Especially when the pros boiled down to feeling good for about an hour or 2, keeping from getting sick, and the temporary energy it gave me. I knew if I could just tough it out (withdrawals) that eventually I would be free of the prison I built for myself.
And it was a prison, I, too, began to isolate myself and justified my using by saying I never fell out, OD'ed, get busted, etc. And when I "came out" to my friends and family it was apparent I did hide the addiction pretty well as they had no idea, but the fact remains I know what I was doing to myself and where this road was leading.
It sounds as though you too are in the same place, you are obviously a smart girl who recognizes that your addiction has progressed and that there is seemingly no way out. But I'm here to tell you there is.
I did not have the option to go to inpatient detox or rehab due to the field I'm in (I am a business owner) and could not afford to go "on record" with my addiction (if you have this choice I say go for it). So, I chose to go cold-turkey (again!!). But this time, I knew I could not do this alone. So I spent some time on the internet researching various methods to get off the garbage and decided the NA route was worth a try.
I went on day 1. I was comforted by the experience being around so many that understood what I was going through and they did the same thing I'm doing now. Sharing their experinces. It gave me hope. I then took a few days off (of life in general) to allow a week of detox so I could get to the meetings without running to the bathroom every couple of minutes. It was during this period I experienced my first pre-white chip relapse. I went to another meeting and they were ok with that and told me to keep coming back. I had my reservations about this thing but felt "if they can do it so can I". So I did.
At this point, I still did not "surrender" and get a white tag but I kept coming back. Toward the end of the 2nd week, I relapsed again. It was at that point i hit me that I was really a slave to these things. I decided to tell ALL of my connections and friends to cut me off, no matter what.
I knew that would help, but I am resourceful, so I went to another meeting the very next day and was told about the 90 in 90 "plan" (Go to 90 meetings in 90 days). I was beginning to self destruct so I figured (again) what the hell, why not? That was 11/01/04. On 11/02, I picked up my white tag/chip.
I did a few suggestions (stayed away from "friends" and "family" where I would probably end up using), went to meetings every day (a lot of times 2 meetings) and did not pick up no matter what. This was EXTREMELY HARD as I went completly cold-turkey and ended up going through many days of pure hell.
What kept me going through all of this was that I was in these meetings so much and so often, I could not help but make friends. I began to go out after the meetings and created a somewhat large network in a very short period of time. I've been going to so many that a lot of "old-timers" assumed (and still do) that I have been there for a while and that they have known me forever (I feel the same) even though it's only been a little over a month.
This has made all the difference. With this core network of NA friends, I have found that I do not need that stuff to feel happy. It has taken some time, but my energy has come back, I am happy more often then not, and I have more real friends that I am closer to then I ever would have before. I have even become involved helping those with less clean time than me and assisting with actvities, meetings, and other NA related stuff.
I did not start out in this thing to become "NA guy" but it seems that I am becoming him. It is not a bad thing. What keeps me clean now, is that I do not, cannot, lose this thing I have become involved in. I won't lie and say I do not still jones or want to use (I am only 39 days), but I do not NEED to. That is huge in and of itself.
I would suggest, if you do not start with rehab or inpatient/outpatient detox, then go to meetings EVERY DAY, 90 in 90. If you go the professional route, do the 90 in 90 when you get out/through it. This is not BS, had you known me before (and it sounds like you do because we are not dissimilar) you will know 39 days is a miracle.
As cheesy as it sounds, one day at a time is real and this thing works. If not NA, do whatever it takes. It is well worth it. And as my sponser told me, "Try this this for a while (6 months) and if you decide this isn't the path for you, the drugs and such will still be there, there not going anywhere". What have you got to lose? What are you waiting for?
And above all else.....keep coming back.

[eddie z.]

Thanks for sharing, Mastrik! That was beautiful!
—EZ

[MootPoint]

Hey Wichita!

You need to decide once and for all that you are going to quit. Not that you want to quit but that you are. "Half measures availed us nothing." It is the biggest decision of your life. It is a decision that will SAVE your life.

You sound like you are close to this decision. Good for you on that.

You need a plan in place for support. Be it NA, rehab, or whatever. I know of few ppl who have done it alone.

My ex-drugs..... alcohol, crack, vicodin, meth, benzos. My DOC is crack, seconded by Vicodin and booze. I managed to get off crack without a support network, but I wouldn't recommend doing it that way!

Hey, you have any problems and want to meet in the chatroom, PM me

Ann

[wichitagirl]

Mootpoint, Paulie, Eddie Z,

You're all wonderful for taking the time to write such insightful thoughts and to send such positive energies in my direction. One day I WILL return the favor and come back and help others climb out of THEIR holes, so that your chain of giving and love won't be broken! WHEN I get clean that is, becuase I WILL!


Mastrik,

Wow, what can I say? That was beautiful, man......
Such a gift you've taken the time to give me; and it's not even Christmas!
What you say makes total sense and was exactly what I was hoping to find - a recipe of ideas from someone who's gotten through to the other side of the same particular hell I'm now in. Good ones, too.
I keep hearing/reading that NA is the only way to go - from everyone! Now it's time to find some meetings. It may be a bit of a problem as I'm leaving town for a while over the holidays and won't be able to access either or car or the time to get to them while I'm away. BUT. You really gave me such hope; it's true that reading about someone else's walk of the same path is helpful. 39 days! I can't wait 'til I can bewriting those same words!
You sound so strong; do I have that strength? And you're courageous! That's not how I feel right now. Right now I feel lost, scared, trapped and pretty darn lonely, but mostly stupid. I am too smart to have gotten into this! I just am.... how did this happen? No mind that - it's time to get a grip and get out. My life is ticking away one minute at a time and I'll never get it back and this is no way to spend it: locked up here in the house with no friends, no plans, no hope, no thoughts in my head of seeing this changing. It's just wrong.
So many have it worse than I do! I'm not hooked on pushing heroin into my veins, I'm not going around looking for ecstacy... this is freakin' ridiculous. These are stupid white pills! Why can't I get off this stuff???

But I will, because I must.

Thanks all, again! I will check back with you with updates, if you want.
((((((((hug hug hug))))))))))))
Your Wichitagirl-friend

[Gooch]

Can only speak for myself but I'm pretty sure I had a good head game going when I got into NA. Other addicts who had figured out how to see the traps and pitfalls in their game showed me where mine might be and ways to get out of them soner with less damage points accumulating.


When the desire to stay clean no matter what is 1% greater than the desire to use that's when we stay clean. Find your desire, hold onto it close and you can beat those stupid little white pills.

Keep coming back WG.

[eddie z.]

I am too smart to have gotten into this!

Me, too! Not bragging, just making a point. The last time I took an intelligence test, I rated "superior." Yet, I was in the same mess you're in. Being smart doesn't matter when it comes to the obsession and compulsion to use. I draw my strength and courage from the support I get from others. NA isn't the only way to go, but there's no reason to go it alone. Do keep in touch and let us know how you are!

Love and hugs, Eddie

[wichitagirl]

Yes, Gooch, it's the 1% edge that I need - you hit it on the head. All I gotta do is find that and I'm on my way out! I've actually been feeling lousy because of this stuff lately... wish I felt worse, actually. Would get me closer to that 1 % goal.

Eddie, I just think this is so ridiculous and expect to wake up tomorrow without the desire. I got along fine all those years! What's changed? Why do I need them so now? How have they moved in on me and taken control? It just rattles around in my bean as I try to get a grip on why why -- why this, why now.


Also, can anyone else relate to this: does anyone else wonder how other people get along each day by being normal? I mean, I have to have something exciting going on or I hate my life. I mean, how do people do it? How do they get up and go to work each day and do the same things and how do they get pleasure with the same people in the same places and not having anything different or exciting going on? I can't handle boring and normal. These little white pills I take are an escape from that scene partially, I think. My husband has had the same job for 19 years and he sees the same people and does pretty much the same thing every day, and he comes home at night in a good mood and I just want to know how he can do that? I would come home from the same 19-year-job in tears! No, I wouldn't. I would have killed myself a long long time ago.

So how do people get along with the same old same old and are - geeesh, HAPPY!??!? Where does the enjoyment come in? What's the name of THIS disease? Maybe it's some form of ADD or something......

[eddie z.]

Hmm. They do say that some people with ADD need more stimulation than other people. Something to consider...

Worrying about "why" is staying in the problem. You need to move into the solution. Like I was saying earlier about looking at positive things. The pros of NOT using instead of the pros of using.

I DO wonder how "normal" people function often. But I don't think I'm wondering about the same issues you are. About the monotony of day-to-day life. I can tell you it IS possible to be happy without using. I know because today I am very content and grateful, even though my life is FAR from perfect.

Take care and have a good night, girlfriend!
Peace, love, and hugs,
Eddie

[Gooch]

the first 3 letters of addiction are add ....hmmmm?

I keep asking people what normal is and they mostly all shrug their shoulders...

I used to think it would be nice to be normal but if nobodies really sure, what was I trying to sign myself up for?

I got to hang out with my cousin last night that I haven't really talkked to much in 23 years. He seems pretty "normal" and he was complaining about the same stuff I do.. high prices, low pay, darn kids have no respect for their elders...lol .. I had to look back to figure out how we drifted apart in the first place and all I could come up with is that when I started using, I felt like I had something to hide and didn't want to drag him into it. I knew there was something different about us.. over the years I figured out that he was doiing a little using too, only he didn't let it turn into a career choice like I did.

[Phinneas]

Originally Posted by Gooch

I keep asking people what normal is and they mostly all shrug their shoulders...

I used to think it would be nice to be normal but if nobodies really sure, what was I trying to sign myself up for?

I heard in a meeting the other day that normal is a setting on the dryer.

Made sense to me.

((((hugs A-Z))))

jojo

[eddie z.]

Originally Posted by Phinneas

I heard in a meeting the other day that normal is a setting on the dryer.

:Lmao

—EZ

[wichitagirl]

You guys are the best


I actually felt positively AWFUL last night before going to bed and I can totally see myself NOT doing this anymore! I stayed with that thought a while and really did some heavy visualization about what I would do with my creative energies and days as a sober person again. I think that's the "head game" I've been trying to get going; it really worked like a charm when I quit smoking to such an extent that that's what I'm got to try to get going now.

I love what you said about add being the first three letters of addiction Gooch! And I'm glad you got back together to catch up with your cousin. I enjoy re-connecting with people from 'way back.' There's something fulfilling - on a really deep, comfortable level - about hanging out (if only for a short time) with an old, old friend. Why is that? Sounds like a nice guy, your cousin, maybe this is the start of a renewed friendship for you both, yes? ...... Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts for me; it means a great deal to me

Jojo, ohmigosh.... COMPLETELY loved it

I read a post about someone else's usage; they started the EXACT same way I did - down to the thinking game of justifying taking the pills - only in 2 years ended up using heroin and now needing to get off that. Wow. I'm completely blown away. I'm SO sorry they are in that place! I can't even imagine... does that put my usage in perspective? Only in that I know I need to get this whipped and whipped NOW. NOW not later :yelling

I've taken one less pill today (I wake up in withdrawal, and the mornings aren't a good time for me anyway, so employing any willpower to stand up against the kind od severe withdrawal symptoms I wake up in the midst of is pretty rotten at this point), and that's a good sign. I'm going to write down my usage today and see if I can hold off one hour, two maybe - stretching time between them.

Take care, all

[eddie z.]

Originally Posted by wichitagirl

I read a post about someone else's usage; they started the EXACT same way I did - down to the thinking game of justifying taking the pills...I'm going to write down my usage today and see if I can hold off one hour, two maybe - stretching time between them.

I used to do this, too. I tried to control my usage my writing down how much I used and when. Didn't work for me because of the justifications. I could always come up with a reason to "let" myself have more. If you can actually taper off this way, more power to you! Just try to be aware of the games and the rationalizations, you know?

And I know what you mean about waking up in withdrawal, too. Every morning was a race to see if I could dose myself BEFORE I threw up! There's a con to using for you. Visualize not having to use to get started every day. Keep up the good work! AC-centuate the positive...or however that song goes. You definitely don't have to be shooting heroin in a couple of years.

Peace, love, and hugs,
Eddie

[wichitagirl]

Eddie,
Thanks, yeah, another con - not getting sick! Absoutely!!!
Man, I reread my posts, and I've got to get not-so-winded.... apologies to all who have to/choose to read them.

It just feels so good to be working this out on paper. From now on, I'll journal instead of upchucking all my feelings here....
and just post for others!

[Dawn10]

I will share the best reason to stop--because you want to.
I am sure that you want to because you would not have visited this site, and you know deep down in the depths of your being that you need to stop the madness.
I was hooked for over 10 years, I too, thought it wasn't hurting anyone. Well, it was hurting me. I manipulated, I stole pills form friends, family and my job, ( I was a nurse). I planned my time off from work around when I was using. If I had a good stash, I was in heaven. The minute that stash got too low, I panicked and was always trying to find a new way to get more.
I finally lost my career, and if that hadn't happened, I know I would have eventually OD'd and would not be here sharing that 6 years of sobriety is under my belt.
Try NA. It is the best place to start. Then get therapy.
Do it for you. It will be the best Christmas gift you could give to you or to your loved ones.

[eddie z.]

Originally Posted by wichitagirl

From now on, I'll journal instead of upchucking all my feelings here....and just post for others!

Please don't stop. Believe it or else, your posts help people. You can upchuck all you like and I promise we won't react like this mean smiley! I do alot of what might be considered "journaling" right here.

And Dawn, thanks for sharing. Congrats on 6 years!!!

Peace, love, and hugs,
Eddie

[wichitagirl]

Dawn, - that's fabulous! 6 years........ wow, zow!! :Terrific
Doesn't seem possible from where I am right now, though. But: never say never. If I had said that the day I divorced my husband, I would never have remarried him 3 years later and become this happy with him, right?

(and Eddie, I'll take your advice and go for the journaling online......)
So that's what's so wierd! From the outside, I should be HAAPY: 2 great kids, a wonderful dog - even a bunch of cats laying around all day amusing me with their silly sleeping poses. What the holy h*ll am I doing??? I'm sure there are people who would trade places with me in a second. H*ll, I would trade places with 'me', living my life!

But the thing is, this *blissful* life doesn't do a damn thing for me.....I just can't get happy. I'm always searching for that extra excitement - for a reason to get out of bed in the morning. Can anyone explain what "addiction" really is? Is it a physical thing? Is that why I need them? It's not a thinking thing, is it? I question that, because I've always been this way: I've always moved on from boring friendships, from boring jobs, from boring - everything! I can't tolerate boring and life can be so downright bloody awful boring at times....... I think maybe the Vicodin keeps things from getting too boring. I'm not trying to be some egomaniac putting other people and situations down, this is all within me - no one else gets bored at things like I do - it's just all within stupid me!

I'm rambling again
(.... Eddie - how can this verbal upchucking be helping others?)

[Dawn10]

:lumpy
Hi again,
You are searching for something, Wichtita, and you are NOT going to find it in a bottle ( or bottles) of Vicodin. You may "have it all" now, but please, please don't let it get to the point where you loose it all. Many of us have. Some come back from it, and some don't.
Addiction is both physical and psychological. We ususally start out for legitimate pain needs, but some studies have shown that an addicts brain is wired differently. The drug hits the pleasure centers in our brains in ways that make us crave the euphoria that it gives. We keep taking it because to stop diminishes that euphoria and makes us feel awful. After using for a time, we need more and more of the drug to reach that pleasurable state and some of us used an amazing amount of drug at one sitting. I think I once took 6 Vicodin at one time to get that few minutes of "feeling wonderful". It becomes a vicious cycle. Our physical need increases and our emotional need is never totally satisfied.
I am positive God allowed me to sink to the bottom to see how bad I was in denial and then slowly allowed me to come to the top again. Through therapy, I have learned alot about me and why I used and why it took me so long to finally get clean. It has also made me grateful and want to share my experience strenght and hope. You asked how YOU are helping by posting. Well, it is a constant reminder to ME and others that I am only one pill away from being an active addict again.
It is NEVER hopeless. You can stop. But, it is work. The withdrawal can be unpleasant, but there are many programs that offer withdrawal assistance and therapy.
Keep posting and know that we all care.

[bobbyd]

wichitagirl,
I have been reading your posts for a few days now and it brings me back to a little over two years ago when I was desperate to get clean.
In meetings I hear it called "the gift of desperation". Today, I understand what that means.
Unless you have the willingness to do something different it will probably be very difficult to stop using.
I too was addicted to pain pills and had lost the desire to use months before I was able to.
The only reason I was still using was to stay ahead of the withdrawals.
I had to stumble into a NA meeting, ask for help, and be willing to accept that help.
I had to hit my knees and pray for the courage to get rid of the drugs and go through the withdrawal and pain.
On December 8, 2002, I flushed a bag of pills down the toilet that had cost me several hundred dollars and much time and effort to obtain.
I wanted to stop that badly and my Higher Power gave me the strength to do it.
If I had drugs around I was going to use them and I couldn't lie to myself anymore about that fact.
My disease lives in my head and recovery is in my heart. When I play "head games" with my disease I am going lose. The only way to get from my head to my heart was to stop using first. What ever it takes.
I am not saying it was easy- it was the most difficult thing I have ever been through, but it has been worth it a hundred times over.
Seeking medical assistance is a good idea. NA meetings are a great idea.
It sounds like you have many wonderful things in your life like your children.
Many using addicts lose their children because of the consequenses of their drug use.
I know I am a much better parent to my children when I am clean.
You are worth giving recovery the best possible chance you can.
Go to a meeting!
Good luck AND God Bless,
bobbyd

[eddie z.]

WG,
You mean silly sleeping poses like this:
??

Not only is addiction physical and mental, but it's emotional and spiritual as well. Dawn is right, I think. You are looking for something. I know I was. I just felt empty inside. Sounds like a cliche, huh? Well, there's a reason cliches are cliches. It's 'cause they're true!

And I agree with Dawn's explanation of how you're helping others. Your story reminds us of where we came from and how we don't want to go back there. Make sense? It also helps me "get out of myself" to try to help others. It goes both ways.

Peace, love, and hugs,
Eddie