View Poll Results: Which spiritual principle is excercised when using a clarity statement?
Acceptance
12
32.43%
Patience
1
2.70%
Tolerance
3
8.11%
None of the Above
21
56.76%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll
Clarity Statements (approved version)
Certified NA Counselor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Newport Beach Ca., US
Posts: 458
Originally Posted by Blake
Andy, you are right, I am wrong, you win, I lose........my home group will more than likely still use the clarity statement untill world tells us not too.......maybe you should campaign about it......Stop the hate, erase the clarity state(ment) in 2006!!!! (I'm no poet)
NAway... I still find it important to comment when this subject comes up since I have been witness to so much harm, disunity, and animosity directly and indirectly generated by it. My hope is that one day an addict will not have to concern themselves with saying the "right " words, using the "right" drugs, having the "right" god, saying the "right" prayer, reading the "right" books, or taking the steps the "right" way.
Live and let live, teach by example rather than by direction, to each their own, let new people be new, identify but don't compare. Remember, more than likely THEY suffer from the same disassociative, dysfunctional, and discriminatory disease WE do. Give others a break and give them some space to find the groove, god, and group that works for them. Don't deny them the chance to learn and recover in their own way.
In loving service and fellowship
andyaddict
Los Angeles
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: out there...
Posts: 2,653
Live and let live, teach by example rather than by direction, to each their own, let new people be new, identify but don't compare. Remember, more than likely THEY suffer from the same disassociative, dysfunctional, and discriminatory disease WE do. Give others a break and give them some space to find the groove, god, and group that works for them. Don't deny them the chance to learn and recover in their own way.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: memphis tn
Posts: 103
Originally Posted by andyaddict
Nevertheless, the Conformity Statement has failed to achieve fellowship support for the SECOND TIME in the last 5 World Conferences. Simple statistics would lead one to believe such a philosophy IS NOT NA opinion. Even the current board recommended against the fellowship voting for fellowship approval on the Conformity Statement.
i voted no for it, and most groups i go to read a clarity statement, including my homegroup. although if they all voted no to have them read, i'd be ok with that too. there's only 1 that i think reads it in a 'misleading' way... because they have someone read it like the other readings, and they say 'this is our fellowship's identity statement' which isn't true.. unless they're talking about their group as 'our fellowship'
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: out there...
Posts: 2,653
Originally Posted by lucyo
and it wasn't voted down because people don't think groups should read a clarity statement. its because groups are autonomous and can come up with their own clarity statement to read if they want to.
When groups begin to stray so far from the message ....( that an addict, any addict ..
[not just the ones who identify themselves using group approved words
}) that to me sure begins to affect NA as a whole.
they say 'this is our fellowship's identity statement' which isn't true.. unless they're talking about their group as 'our fellowship'
Vision of Hope
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Living on This side of the green!!
Posts: 1,057
if it was approved and made a reading, it would appear that it must be read, which isn't the case now nor should it be.
I was in a meetoing the other day and the clarity statement was read by a Cross-Addicted Alcoholic Addict. It happens almost anytime that reading is read. And when a more informed addict reads it, the tone of the voice is condicending.
We should have a reading tha by 30 days you must have NA Language instilled in you or you must refrain from speaking up at meetings. Not everyone who walks through the doors is programed to think like we think. Fact is, right from the get go, folks right in rehab are taught to go to NA & AA and we are in position to Carry the message of hope andf really pray they hear us. I know many who rob from the Fellowship, Sleep on the Couch and when it all said and done, Myself and others continue to carry the message. I don't plan to get lazy with this message.
Peace,
Todd J.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: memphis tn
Posts: 103
Originally Posted by godsonmyside
We should have a reading tha by 30 days you must have NA Language instilled in you or you must refrain from speaking up at meetings.
although i love na and love the language and early on when i made the decision to not go to AA anymore, i'd tell people when i heard sober/alcoholic/big book quotes, that if i wanted to hear that i would go to an AA meeting... and i dont, so that's why i'm in NA.
i still dont think people 'must' speak a certain way.
may have already said it, but i do believe the chair people and speakers should carry a clear NA message, but the other people? although i dont like hearing sober/alcoholic, i dont think we can force them to say clean/addict/recovering and not allow them to share, cause they choose to say they're a sober alcoholic.
i get in arguments with a close friend, he's of the mind they should start their own fellowship. i've seen people be confronted in the middle of a meeting for saying sober/alcoholic and never come back.
i think we need to be careful how we approach people about this.
of course there are some that it would suit me just fine if they went to another fellowship, but thats not my decision, its theirs, and although i might suggest in a loving way another fellowship, its not up to me to tell them what they should do.
I'm an addict.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hyde Park, NY
Posts: 1,201
THis is the conversation that just won't die, huh, andrew?
The motion to have a fellowship approved clarity statement failing shows absolutely nothing about the fellowship as a whole's approval of a clarity statement....it just shows that the fellowship as a whole would rather remain autonomous on this matter.
In my area, every single NA meeting reads some form of a clarity statement....what I find happens more times than not is that a newcommer will bring up the clarity statement in discussion and ask about what the difference between saying sober and clean is....so it gives me, or whoever else the opprotunity to talk with them about the first step, the disease of addiction, honesty and personal responsibility
The motion to have a fellowship approved clarity statement failing shows absolutely nothing about the fellowship as a whole's approval of a clarity statement....it just shows that the fellowship as a whole would rather remain autonomous on this matter.
In my area, every single NA meeting reads some form of a clarity statement....what I find happens more times than not is that a newcommer will bring up the clarity statement in discussion and ask about what the difference between saying sober and clean is....so it gives me, or whoever else the opprotunity to talk with them about the first step, the disease of addiction, honesty and personal responsibility
Vision of Hope
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Living on This side of the green!!
Posts: 1,057
Originally Posted by godsonmyside
We should have a reading tha by 30 days you must have NA Language instilled in you or you must refrain from speaking up at meetings.
We should have a reading tha by 30 days you must have NA Language instilled in you or you must refrain from speaking up at meetings.
are you serious?
although i love na and love the language and early on when i made the decision to not go to AA anymore, i'd tell people when i heard sober/alcoholic/big book quotes, that if i wanted to hear that i would go to an AA meeting... and i dont, so that's why i'm in NA.
although i love na and love the language and early on when i made the decision to not go to AA anymore, i'd tell people when i heard sober/alcoholic/big book quotes, that if i wanted to hear that i would go to an AA meeting... and i dont, so that's why i'm in NA.
I made AA early also and went there thiking they really needed to hear how we stay clean in NA, not realizing until it was pointed out to me that these are our traditions and those are theirs. It is not my place to tell folks where they belong.
I had a sponsee call me the other day to speak at an AA meeting and I told him I can not go to AA and tell them how I stay clean in NA. He asked why he didn't know that info, so I told him if he called and did step work he would know.
The biggest thing here is we carry the message to the addict who still suffers becaue that is all we have to give.
PeaCE,
tODD j.
Certified NA Counselor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Newport Beach Ca., US
Posts: 458
I think the difference is in what kind of a "clear" message one is trying to carry.
Is it a clearly spiritual message of NA?
or
Is it a clearly political message of NA?
I still haven't read where it says NA is a political program, I do remember a couple places where it says NA is a spiritual program.
a
Is it a clearly spiritual message of NA?
or
Is it a clearly political message of NA?
I still haven't read where it says NA is a political program, I do remember a couple places where it says NA is a spiritual program.
a
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: out there...
Posts: 2,653
Originally Posted by godsonmyside
I made AA early PeaCE, tODD j.
Couple reasons I went to AA before NA.
I had never been arrested for drug use, only drinking and driving related stuff.
NA meetings were 90 minutes, AA were 60. I didn't believe I had the time to "waste" with AA let alone NA.
I really didn't want to address my drug use at that time, I wanted to get control of my drinking, and be a social dope smoker so I could retire one day and sit on my front porch puffing, while my grandkids ran around.
I introduced myself as an "anda" for a long time.
In order to understand how to deal with someone who might be "cross addicted" or confused about their identification, or may not use "NA language" ( maybe the fellowship needs start to teach people exactly what NA language is?), I have to remember how it was that I was treated. How did those tolerant oldtimers teach me to crry a message of recovery in narcotics Anonymous?
They set an example. They spoke using common terms that I saw repeatedly used in the basic Text. They spoke from their heart and told me their perception of the truth of the NA way of life as they lived it.
Who needs a mandate when you have powerful examples of what you want to learn to be like?
Theres only one way to guarantee that the message remains clear. Live it. Carry it. Respect it.
Certified NA Counselor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Newport Beach Ca., US
Posts: 458
Originally Posted by Gooch
maybe the fellowship needs start to teach people exactly what NA language is.
Throughout the fellowship of Narcotics Anonymous, each member is but a small part of a much greater whole. NA must continue to live, for without the recovery born of this fellowship, many of us would surely face the alternatives of jails, institutions, dereliction, and death. It is in unity of spirit that we are offered freedom from active addiction by collectively practicing the principles of NA’s Twelve Steps in our daily lives. Our meetings, and our groups, are the forum by which one addict works with another, freely giving what was so freely given to us.
The spirit of unity is born through identification and empathy. Identification- a conscious awareness of our fellow’s thoughts, feelings, and problems, is our initial connection. Empathy – the emotional association and spiritual bond; mutually compliments our identification; becoming our primary vehicle for communication where all others are lost, this is our language. It is with this language that a member can suddenly stop sharing in a meeting, begin to cry, and as the room grows quiet, words no longer need be used. In this environment, like no other, our message is still being carried and understood by all.
In Narcotics Anonymous, individual welfare is held near equally as important as our common welfare. Though our common welfare comes first, we continue to enhance our individual welfare by offering each member as much dignity and respect as any other. One of the most important concepts of unity comes from understanding and maintaining a similar sense of humility. This ideal is found when we place ourselves rightly and relatively in respect to God and the people around us, therefore creating a fellowship. The word fellowship, by its very nature, implies a body of equals, none of any greater or lesser value in NA.
The spirit of unity is born through identification and empathy. Identification- a conscious awareness of our fellow’s thoughts, feelings, and problems, is our initial connection. Empathy – the emotional association and spiritual bond; mutually compliments our identification; becoming our primary vehicle for communication where all others are lost, this is our language. It is with this language that a member can suddenly stop sharing in a meeting, begin to cry, and as the room grows quiet, words no longer need be used. In this environment, like no other, our message is still being carried and understood by all.
In Narcotics Anonymous, individual welfare is held near equally as important as our common welfare. Though our common welfare comes first, we continue to enhance our individual welfare by offering each member as much dignity and respect as any other. One of the most important concepts of unity comes from understanding and maintaining a similar sense of humility. This ideal is found when we place ourselves rightly and relatively in respect to God and the people around us, therefore creating a fellowship. The word fellowship, by its very nature, implies a body of equals, none of any greater or lesser value in NA.
a
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: out there...
Posts: 2,653
The spirit of unity is born through identification and empathy. Identification- a conscious awareness of our fellow’s thoughts, feelings, and problems, is our initial connection. Empathy – the emotional association and spiritual bond; mutually compliments our identification; becoming our primary vehicle for communication where all others are lost, this is our language. It is with this language that a member can suddenly stop sharing in a meeting, begin to cry, and as the room grows quiet, words no longer need be used. In this environment, like no other, our message is still being carried and understood by all.
Exactly what I wanted to say !
Vision of Hope
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Living on This side of the green!!
Posts: 1,057
Originally Posted by andyaddict
(an excerpt from NAWOL draft materital)
a
a
I share my experience with the who language thing and the clarity statement and the misuse of it.
I met Gooch in AA in 88, and we went to NA with in a week of meeting each other, he picked me up at the 1/2way house. I remember the transfermation to NA, and where I was, what I learned and so on.
When I look at the intolerance of members teaching others about NA, our language and a New Way of Life, it shows where others are at with Step work. This may p!ss some folks of but thats ok. The truth will set you fre but first it will p!ss you off.
I watch this stuff and came to some conclusions of my own.
Demanding of others, how they should share, where they should be at at a certain point in the process, our defects of character shine brightly. I'm talking about folks that have 5 or more years, It might be a good idea to work the stewps past the 1st step. 6&7 really help, let alone 4&5. Members getting frustrated about how meetings are run Im talking members with 10-20 years not going to meetings looking at there clean time and how things used to be, getting frustrated with recovery and not helping the newcomer.
Most of the time we see members stepping away from this Felloowship with many many years clean time haven't really worked a 4th step, talk about it but never really did a 4th step. and then trell others how to do things, cant really show them, because the willingness isn't there. Want to bring a piece of paper to a meeting to ask members not to say this or not to say that and when they do say what has been asked not to share, wnat to jump across the table to beat on them for saying it. Ego is huge and never addressing it is very dangerous.
I hope that made sense....
Peace,
Todd J.
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