View Poll Results: Which spiritual principle is excercised when using a clarity statement?
Acceptance
12
32.43%
Patience
1
2.70%
Tolerance
3
8.11%
None of the Above
21
56.76%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll
Clarity Statements (approved version)
Certified NA Counselor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Newport Beach Ca., US
Posts: 458
Originally Posted by eddie z.
Oh, and Gooch, I finally got the joke about Andy being a "certified NA counselor" when I re-heard it read from the literature that "there are no certified NA counselors." DUH.
This is a message from heyyyyy at Alcohol and Drug Addiction Help (
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/index.php ). The Alcohol and Drug Addiction Help owners cannot accept any responsibility for the contents of the email.
This is the message:
Andy,
The purpose of this e-mail is to inform you on the 12 Traditions of
Narcotics Anonymous, primarily the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, and 12th. I am the Public Information Chairperson and Web Site Coordinator for the Orange County Area. More importantly, I am simply a trusted servant, not a dictator, or the NA police. Because web sites are open to the public scrutiny, It's a PI responsibility to make sure our image is represented with in the Traditions. Identifying yourself as a certified NA counselor violates our Traditions, which are not negotiable. Plus, displaying a NA symbol owned by NA World Services without a registered trademark symbol violates intellectual property laws. Im sure you feel identifying yourself in such a fashion is "just a joke", and maybe I should lighten up. A newcomer visiting this web site doesn't know it's a "joke" a professional or someone who knows very little about NA doesn't know it's a "joke." I will explain to you how you are breaking! the Traditions listed above. Tradition 1, "Our common welfare should come first", identifying yourself as a NA professional goes against the group conscience of Narcotics Anonymous and therefor puts YOUR personal values and ideas before the common welfare of NA. Furthermore, you identifying as a NA professional compromises the unity of the 1st Tradition, and the freedom of our NA groups. Tradition 2, "a loving God as he may express himself in our group conscience", you are acting on self-will and you are not being considerate of the group conscience of NA. The Area Service Committee "GSR meeting" meets on the 2nd Sunday of every month in Garden Grove. If you disagree with me and feel identifying yourself as a NA professional is within the group conscience of NA, I would invite you to show up at the ASC meeting and find out for yourself. Tradition 4, "except in matters affecting other groups or NA as a whole", The internet is open to public scrutiny identifying yourself as ! an NA professional effects NA, its group, individual members, ! and ultimately the newcomer. Tradition 5, anyone who purposely blurs the NA message by not just breaking, but butchering the Traditions, especially in view of the public diverts us from our primary purpose. Tradition 6, by posting an unregistered NA symbol owned by NA World Services you are lending the NA name to an outside enterprise (soberrecover.com). Tradition 8, NA does not employ professionals. You are posing as a professional! Tradition 12, I assure you that by going against the group conscience of NA by posing, as a NA professional contains NO PRINCPLES. Acting on self-will despite, who it affects, is a personality trait, not a principle. Hopefully, you’re not offended by this e-mail. My purpose is out of LOVE not despite. If you have a comment, or question and need a further explanation on why posing as an NA professional violates our Traditions and harms our fellowship my phone # is on the front of our area meeting directory, or you can contact me at [email protected] Im sure you have received e-mails like this before. Maybe you should think about WHY you receive them. Again, I'd invite you to show up at the ASC meeting and ask why I sent you this e-mail.
In Loving Service,
Paul H.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/index.php ). The Alcohol and Drug Addiction Help owners cannot accept any responsibility for the contents of the email.
This is the message:
Andy,
The purpose of this e-mail is to inform you on the 12 Traditions of
Narcotics Anonymous, primarily the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, and 12th. I am the Public Information Chairperson and Web Site Coordinator for the Orange County Area. More importantly, I am simply a trusted servant, not a dictator, or the NA police. Because web sites are open to the public scrutiny, It's a PI responsibility to make sure our image is represented with in the Traditions. Identifying yourself as a certified NA counselor violates our Traditions, which are not negotiable. Plus, displaying a NA symbol owned by NA World Services without a registered trademark symbol violates intellectual property laws. Im sure you feel identifying yourself in such a fashion is "just a joke", and maybe I should lighten up. A newcomer visiting this web site doesn't know it's a "joke" a professional or someone who knows very little about NA doesn't know it's a "joke." I will explain to you how you are breaking! the Traditions listed above. Tradition 1, "Our common welfare should come first", identifying yourself as a NA professional goes against the group conscience of Narcotics Anonymous and therefor puts YOUR personal values and ideas before the common welfare of NA. Furthermore, you identifying as a NA professional compromises the unity of the 1st Tradition, and the freedom of our NA groups. Tradition 2, "a loving God as he may express himself in our group conscience", you are acting on self-will and you are not being considerate of the group conscience of NA. The Area Service Committee "GSR meeting" meets on the 2nd Sunday of every month in Garden Grove. If you disagree with me and feel identifying yourself as a NA professional is within the group conscience of NA, I would invite you to show up at the ASC meeting and find out for yourself. Tradition 4, "except in matters affecting other groups or NA as a whole", The internet is open to public scrutiny identifying yourself as ! an NA professional effects NA, its group, individual members, ! and ultimately the newcomer. Tradition 5, anyone who purposely blurs the NA message by not just breaking, but butchering the Traditions, especially in view of the public diverts us from our primary purpose. Tradition 6, by posting an unregistered NA symbol owned by NA World Services you are lending the NA name to an outside enterprise (soberrecover.com). Tradition 8, NA does not employ professionals. You are posing as a professional! Tradition 12, I assure you that by going against the group conscience of NA by posing, as a NA professional contains NO PRINCPLES. Acting on self-will despite, who it affects, is a personality trait, not a principle. Hopefully, you’re not offended by this e-mail. My purpose is out of LOVE not despite. If you have a comment, or question and need a further explanation on why posing as an NA professional violates our Traditions and harms our fellowship my phone # is on the front of our area meeting directory, or you can contact me at [email protected] Im sure you have received e-mails like this before. Maybe you should think about WHY you receive them. Again, I'd invite you to show up at the ASC meeting and ask why I sent you this e-mail.
In Loving Service,
Paul H.
Hopefully though, if a person gets burned enough, they'll read their book and see how funny it actually is.
aa
la
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: out there...
Posts: 2,653
oh man..... I hope they don't impound my Harley for that higher powered sticker....
A great friend of mine in this process emailed me a copy of the article on clarity statements that you contributed to the NA way, long before I ever found this site.
That article woke me up to a condition I didn't even know I carried.
It reminded me of a learning day I attended back before I came to terms with my own identification as simply an addict. A man shared that he was an alcoholic and had passed by the event on his way to get loaded. He came in to ask for help, let out some of his frustrations with life on life's terms and find some of that empathy and some of the responses to him were so loaded with attempts to correct the language he was using to share, and filter the perceived "contamination" of the message, that any compassion or empathy was difficult to notice.
I was very upset that day. Later when I became enthusiastic about Narcotics Anonymous I found my little badge and started to note all the violations and keep a record of the violaters.
You helped me ditch the uniform and decide for myself what I was comfortable wearing.
When I first saw the counselor remark, I didn't get the joke either.
I have some ideas about some literature that I feel should be mandatory reading at every service meeting at any level.
the first being "always remember we are servants .. there are no officers!"
A great friend of mine in this process emailed me a copy of the article on clarity statements that you contributed to the NA way, long before I ever found this site.
That article woke me up to a condition I didn't even know I carried.
It reminded me of a learning day I attended back before I came to terms with my own identification as simply an addict. A man shared that he was an alcoholic and had passed by the event on his way to get loaded. He came in to ask for help, let out some of his frustrations with life on life's terms and find some of that empathy and some of the responses to him were so loaded with attempts to correct the language he was using to share, and filter the perceived "contamination" of the message, that any compassion or empathy was difficult to notice.
I was very upset that day. Later when I became enthusiastic about Narcotics Anonymous I found my little badge and started to note all the violations and keep a record of the violaters.
You helped me ditch the uniform and decide for myself what I was comfortable wearing.
When I first saw the counselor remark, I didn't get the joke either.
I have some ideas about some literature that I feel should be mandatory reading at every service meeting at any level.
the first being "always remember we are servants .. there are no officers!"
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: out there...
Posts: 2,653
Originally Posted by eddie z.
Then again, for a while there, I was going to four different 12-Step fellowships. Bad Eddie! 
teehee
Love and hugs, you guys,
Eddie
teeheeLove and hugs, you guys,
Eddie
see I'm better allready .. ( carry your own durn books !)
Certified NA Counselor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Newport Beach Ca., US
Posts: 458
Originally Posted by Gooch
oh man..... I hope they don't impound my Harley for that higher powered sticker....
A great friend of mine in this process emailed me a copy of the article on clarity statements that you contributed to the NA way, long before I ever found this site.
That article woke me up to a condition I didn't even know I carried.
It reminded me of a learning day I attended back before I came to terms with my own identification as simply an addict. A man shared that he was an alcoholic and had passed by the event on his way to get loaded. He came in to ask for help, let out some of his frustrations with life on life's terms and find some of that empathy and some of the responses to him were so loaded with attempts to correct the language he was using to share, and filter the perceived "contamination" of the message, that any compassion or empathy was difficult to notice.
I was very upset that day. Later when I became enthusiastic about Narcotics Anonymous I found my little badge and started to note all the violations and keep a record of the violaters.
You helped me ditch the uniform and decide for myself what I was comfortable wearing.
When I first saw the counselor remark, I didn't get the joke either.
I have some ideas about some literature that I feel should be mandatory reading at every service meeting at any level.
the first being "always remember we are servants .. there are no officers!"
A great friend of mine in this process emailed me a copy of the article on clarity statements that you contributed to the NA way, long before I ever found this site.
That article woke me up to a condition I didn't even know I carried.
It reminded me of a learning day I attended back before I came to terms with my own identification as simply an addict. A man shared that he was an alcoholic and had passed by the event on his way to get loaded. He came in to ask for help, let out some of his frustrations with life on life's terms and find some of that empathy and some of the responses to him were so loaded with attempts to correct the language he was using to share, and filter the perceived "contamination" of the message, that any compassion or empathy was difficult to notice.
I was very upset that day. Later when I became enthusiastic about Narcotics Anonymous I found my little badge and started to note all the violations and keep a record of the violaters.
You helped me ditch the uniform and decide for myself what I was comfortable wearing.
When I first saw the counselor remark, I didn't get the joke either.
I have some ideas about some literature that I feel should be mandatory reading at every service meeting at any level.
the first being "always remember we are servants .. there are no officers!"
You're supposed to hold shares like that about people till AFTER their dead.
:xmasv
Actually, that was very touching, and yes I know the feeling of sadness when our fellowship of love is molested when others use it as a platform to self-righteously impose political correctness on others.
thanx for the post
andyaddict
Los Angeles
No expectations!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,732
More importantly, I am simply a trusted servant, not a dictator, or the NA police.
I remember wanting to leave supper with some of the women in my network recently because one of my sponsee sistahs was going on and on about how many traditions another woman had violated by reading part of a short story at a speaker meeting. No, it was NOT NA-approved literature, I admit, but my friend was just SO self-righteous and full of herself that I almost couldn't stand it. I ended up going home early rather than staying at our convention and listening to her pat herself on the back.
Gooch, I don't even want to start collecting OA or Al-Anon literature! Have you seen the quantity of books and pamphlets in those fellowships?
Peace and love, Eddie
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: out there...
Posts: 2,653
Originally Posted by andyaddict
You're supposed to hold shares like that about people till AFTER their dead.
Screw that
... I'm not going to live with the memories of things I might have said. No regrets.. The lawn may not get mowed and I may never get around to finishing the barn. I'm not gonna wonder what might have been had I only taken the time to tell someone thanks for listening to their heart.
an addict named Mike
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 188
Hey Andy, that was you that contributed the article on the clarity statment I read in NA way magazine early this year???? It was definately eye opening, and I do agree with most all of your points. I saw someone write earlier --"Those who are blessed with an abundance of meetings DO need to keep their messages and traditions as unsullied as possible".--- The 12 traditions are not negotiable. It is your responsibility as a member of this fellowship to uphold the integrity of our traditions regardless of the cercumstances. "spiritual principles are never in conflict, they compliment each other". You guys know my opinions on the clarity statement already, I'm not a fan of it. I was at a meeting in Las Vegas back in April and the clarity statement was read at the beggining of the meeting. Most of the people then went on to identify themselves as anda's, poly's, crosses, ect..., and the chairperson actually stopped the meeting in the middle and read the clarity statement AGAIN!! Not meant to rule, censor, or dictate behavior my arse!! We do need our own identity as a fellowship and singleness of purpose, but at what cost??? People in my experience eventually start identifying themselves as addicts only after awhile anyway. I have renamed the "clarity statement" the "intolerance statement". Also, andy, I could see the point that person made when suggesting you not identify yourself as a certified NA counselor. It can easily send a false message to the public and people could view what you say as the law of NA. Also, even though I agree with you in principle andy, that poll was a totally biased. I would be curious to see how a poll turned out if we just stated the clarity statement on a post and asked people if they were for or against it. Love & Respect, Mike
No expectations!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,732
Originally Posted by servicejunkie
Also, even though I agree with you in principle andy, that poll was a totally biased.
Mike, you're right. The clarity statement means nothing to people who haven't been around for at least a little while and when they have been around a little while, they generally start identifying themselves as just addicts anyway, so the clarity statement, in addition to being intolerant, is essentially pointless. Thanks for your comments.
Peace, love, and
s,Eddie
Certified NA Counselor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Newport Beach Ca., US
Posts: 458
Originally Posted by eddie z.
I thought that was the point. To demonstrate that a clarity statement is not really in keeping with the spiritual principles underlying the Traditions. Am I right, Andy?
BTW, you guys should see me getting my arse chewed over at NAWOL right now, in a thread on 13th stepping, OMG. LOL
NAway,
andyaddict
Los Angeles
an addict named Mike
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 188
www.nawol Its the forum for the NA way of life book that is being written. Hands down the best piece of recovery literature ever written in my opinion. I value it more than all other NA and AA books put together. The cool thing is anyone can participate in writing it!! Check it out eddie, you'll definately be able to appreciate it.
an addict named Mike
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 188
that site was actually www.nawol.org
Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Long Island, New York, U.S.A.
Posts: 179
Originally Posted by eddie z.
<snip>, so the clarity statement, in addition to being intolerant, is essentially pointless.
Eddie
Eddie
Seems like a pretty big point to me.
Richie
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: worcester ma.
Posts: 59
clearly the clarity/identity statements conflict with the freedom of the na tradition
The Na Traditions,,the Book It Works How And Why,,trad.8 Pg 188,,what Is Narcotics Anonymous,after All,but A Fellowship Of Addicts Freely Shareing With One Another The Simple Message Of Their Own Experience,,the Clarity Statements Suggest We Do Not Share Our Own Experience,it Suggests We Alter Our Own Experience.tradition 9 ,,pg.193,we Ought Not Create A Governing Hierachy,a Top Down Bureaucracy Dictating To Our Groups And Members,,def.of Dictate,transcribe,,def.of Transcribe,to Rewrite,,the Clarity Statements Dictate/transcribe,,our Own Experience.,/message ,trad.10.pg.198,even Our Leaders Are Only Trusted Servants,with No Power To Tell Individual Members What To Do Think Or Say,na Members Are Encouraged To Think For Themselves,to Develope Thier Own Opinians,and To Express Those Opinions As They See Fit.,the Clarity Statements Suggest That Na Has The Power To Tell Us What To Do ,think And Say,,trad.11 Pg.203,clearly Our Traditions Are Just As Concerned With Our Public Relations As They Are With Our Internal Relations,,pg 208,each Of Us Has Our Own Life,our Own Words ,and Our Own Story,all Adding Dimension And Color To The Message Of Our Fellowship,,the Clarity Statements Suggest We Do Not Use Our Own Words,,when Tradition 11 Suggests We Do ,,,,,,,,the Na Traditions Are About Freedom,,the Clarity Statements Are About Control,,the Definition Of Govern,,to Control,,na Groups Or Commitees That Use The Clarity Statements In Their Formats Are Suggesting That Na Governs,,,theres No Way Around It,,,if You Find A Way Around It In The Na Traditions ,,please Tell Me What Book An Page Number,,
If Anyone Suggests That I Am Taken Any Of These Na Tradition Quotes Out Of Context,,explain Yourself,,be Spicific And Tell Me How Exactly,, How They Were Taken Out Of Context,,,,,
Huggs Bruce
If Anyone Suggests That I Am Taken Any Of These Na Tradition Quotes Out Of Context,,explain Yourself,,be Spicific And Tell Me How Exactly,, How They Were Taken Out Of Context,,,,,
Huggs Bruce
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: gastonia, North Carolina
Posts: 5
We, the home group members, believe it helps when we use the NA language of recovery in all that we say in this meeting. That is; we prefer to refer to our disease as addiction and identify ourselves as addicts. We refer to our time in the NA program as clean time or recovery. We do this because with the first step of NA we have shifted the focus off any specific drug and onto the recovery process leaving us with the single focus necessary for unity.
Any labels which imply specific drugs or more than one disease dilutes that focus and some of the unity called for in NA’s first tradition is lost. This is not something we enforce; we are just letting you know what seems to work for us.
From reading this clarity statement if you will, I can see how this discussion came about. Being from an Area that has just recently gained some maturity, We have used so called clarity statements to help the new commer and old timer to try to understand that you are welcome here no matter what, but please try to have respect for our facilities and others desires to learn. It was a clarity statement that simply said whats said here stays here at my second meeting that gave me a breif moment of clarity to what anonymity simply meant. We should not claim this is how we would like you to behave here, just some simplicity without elaboration of some of the basic principles of recovery.
Any labels which imply specific drugs or more than one disease dilutes that focus and some of the unity called for in NA’s first tradition is lost. This is not something we enforce; we are just letting you know what seems to work for us.
From reading this clarity statement if you will, I can see how this discussion came about. Being from an Area that has just recently gained some maturity, We have used so called clarity statements to help the new commer and old timer to try to understand that you are welcome here no matter what, but please try to have respect for our facilities and others desires to learn. It was a clarity statement that simply said whats said here stays here at my second meeting that gave me a breif moment of clarity to what anonymity simply meant. We should not claim this is how we would like you to behave here, just some simplicity without elaboration of some of the basic principles of recovery.
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: worcester ma.
Posts: 59
2forecovery41 day,,you are stateing that the na text 5th edition is diluteing the na message,,please,,,this sort of stuff suggests that na governs/dictates transcribes/controls,,going against everything that na offers ,,freedom..so please do some research on the na traditions,,you can start two posts up,,i even gave you page numbers,,so please stop this foolishness,,
,,,,,,,, NA,,BASIC TEXT,5th EDITION,,,,PG.189,,DRINKING ALCOHOL,,PG.174,,ALCOHOLICS,,PG.130,,I DRANK,DROPPED,,SNORTED,,SMOKED,,AND SNIFFED,,PG.133,,DRUGS AND ALCOHOL,,PG.129,VODKA,PG.150,131,GETTING LOADED,,PG.135,ADDICTS AND ALCOHOLICS,,CLEAN AND DRY,,HAPPY AND SOBER,,PG,141,,,USEING PILLS,,PG 127,,JUNKIES,DOPEFIENDS,PILL HEADS,,COKEFREAKS,,PG.123,,I SMOKED A JOINT BEFOR THE MEETING,,PG.122,,I WAS ALLWAYS LOADED WHILE WRITEING MY 4th STEP,PG.133,,JUNKIE AND A JUICER,,HERE IS A GOOD ONE,,PG. 162,,I BECAME SOBER AND CLEAN,,,,,,,,THESE PHRASES/WORDS ARE IN THE NA TEXT,5th EDITION,,THE CLARITY STATEMENT SUGGESTS THAT THE NA MESSAGE IS BLURRED WHEN WE USE THESE PHRASES/WORDS AT AN NA MEETING,,TALK ABOUT A BLURRED/ MIXED MESSAGE,,,,,,,,,,,,
and 2forecovery41day,,,,,,,,,,,as i stated two posts up,,clearly the clarity statements conflict with the freedom of the na traditions,scroll up and read,,if you think i have taken any of the na traditions out of context,,please explain,,be spicific and tell me exactly how they were taken out of context,,,i suggest you inform the people that you learned from the errors in their teachings,,,,huggs bruce
,,,,,,,, NA,,BASIC TEXT,5th EDITION,,,,PG.189,,DRINKING ALCOHOL,,PG.174,,ALCOHOLICS,,PG.130,,I DRANK,DROPPED,,SNORTED,,SMOKED,,AND SNIFFED,,PG.133,,DRUGS AND ALCOHOL,,PG.129,VODKA,PG.150,131,GETTING LOADED,,PG.135,ADDICTS AND ALCOHOLICS,,CLEAN AND DRY,,HAPPY AND SOBER,,PG,141,,,USEING PILLS,,PG 127,,JUNKIES,DOPEFIENDS,PILL HEADS,,COKEFREAKS,,PG.123,,I SMOKED A JOINT BEFOR THE MEETING,,PG.122,,I WAS ALLWAYS LOADED WHILE WRITEING MY 4th STEP,PG.133,,JUNKIE AND A JUICER,,HERE IS A GOOD ONE,,PG. 162,,I BECAME SOBER AND CLEAN,,,,,,,,THESE PHRASES/WORDS ARE IN THE NA TEXT,5th EDITION,,THE CLARITY STATEMENT SUGGESTS THAT THE NA MESSAGE IS BLURRED WHEN WE USE THESE PHRASES/WORDS AT AN NA MEETING,,TALK ABOUT A BLURRED/ MIXED MESSAGE,,,,,,,,,,,,
and 2forecovery41day,,,,,,,,,,,as i stated two posts up,,clearly the clarity statements conflict with the freedom of the na traditions,scroll up and read,,if you think i have taken any of the na traditions out of context,,please explain,,be spicific and tell me exactly how they were taken out of context,,,i suggest you inform the people that you learned from the errors in their teachings,,,,huggs bruce
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