Agnostic?

[RocketsintheSky]

I see the value and need for the spiritual aspect of NA, but what if you are agnostic? I grew up very religious but at this point in my life, I have realized I grew up being told fairy tales. I believe there may be a god, but I definitely know it is not Jesus. I don't think a person can truly know if there is a god or not. Can NA still work for a person who is agnostic or atheist? My brother told me that your higher power, can be something that is not a deit,y it could be your love for animals, etc. But how can I surrender my addiction and myself to that?

[REZ]

Sure, NA works for atheistic and agnostics. You don't have to believe in God or accept any religious dogmas. All you really need to believe in is a power that can help you stay clean. For some, it is simply boils down to believing in the NA group, the steps, or whatever. I was an agnostic when I started in NA. Some days I still am.

[andyaddict]

Might I suggest a look at chapter 4 in the text Alcoholics Anonymous, you can find it online. It is a very good read on this subject.

a

[huntsober]

Our text explains this topic very well. As long and the power is loving forgiving and greater than you. Many however have grown to understand more about the definition of atheistic and agnostic. Once reaching this point in recovery a more traditional understanding of a Higher Power is developed. For me it was the group.....then a few support people....then a sponsor....then a loving God and I UNDERSTOOD HIM. Although I am spritual and religious today I still maintain a God of my understanding. This takes time and time.....takes t i m e . Main point is keep coming back and no matter what dont pick up.

[0live]

I have also wondered about this. Thanks for asking. I am agnostic, but I am spiritual in the sense of reading Buddhist texts and meditating. Well at least I was before heroin took over my life. I want to use meditation as my HP for na... But I don't know exactly how to do that.

[Gmoney]

I also agree that the NA Basic Text covers this topic sufficiently, and there's at least 10 readings in the Just For Today meditation book that explains it as well. I understand NA to be a spiritual, not religious program and it can work for anyone whether they believe in a God or not. Like Rez, I was agnostic when I came to NA. Over the years my views and beliefs have changed, but I'm still not a religious person - I'm spiritual, and my concept of a Higher Power isn't based on the hocus-pocus, mumbo-jumbo I was taught as a child. When I surrendered, I stopped fighting the program and the help being offered me.

[andyaddict]

There is a principle, which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep an addict in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation.

[huntsober]

I like many others came here full of fear. Fear of people! When I could see well enough to read the first step I saw the first word. WE...I though oh no...I am gonna have to get close to someone. And that is what I did....this is when I learned that in step 2... a power greater than myself often was a person place or thing that showed me something about myself that I didnt already know...So at those split seconds those people places and things were powers greater than me. Something put those in place for me to bump into over and over until I learned more...

After a while I learned the first word of the first tradition OUR...I again thought oh no...I got to do something with these people. I had in fact entered into a common welfare...the disease of addiction. Having the same disease caused me to be woven into the same fabric as the others. This enabled me to understand that a Power Greated than me was in fact working through others in recovery.

The people in the rooms put skin on my God which enables me to hear clearly what is being said to me by him in the rooms. If I just dont pick up and keep coming to the rooms I will grow closer to a personal understanding of what a power greater than me is...For me today that is called God.

Often while sitting in the rooms I hear "God" speaking through others. I want to run up to them and grab them by the shoulders and say "do you understand what you just said!!! You just unlocked a door for me that has been closed for years....We never remember what we say that helps others. That is how a power grewater than me speaks.

I know today that I can only hear and find his voice in places that are healthy and good for me. IF I keep coming back and DONT PICK UP...His voice will become clearer and my understanding will become clearer.

[allport]

So what you are all saying is that if you hang around long enough you won't be agnostic anymore?

How insulting and dismissive of you

[huntsober]

Sorry if I did not make myself clear. I did not to mean hurt anyone. My point is if we stick around we will find the power of our own understanding to stay clean. Mine however may be different than others. I just think that as long and I am using I get further away from good in the world than closer to good. If I keep coming to the rooms I find good and support. For me ....my HP offers this. He only wants whats good for me. So If I have muddied this up more sorry. I dont have to have a HP to be clean but I have to be clean to recover. Being clean is the goal....I find that I stay clean when I keep coming back to the rooms. Our text offers a clear statement about the ONLY THING that will defeat us....is an attitude of indifference or intolerance towards spritual princlples. Spritual principles to me are the items that promote recovery. I cant get/stay clean without recovery. I wish you well in your journey.

[REZ]

"So what you are all saying is that if you hang around long enough you won't be agnostic anymore? How insulting and dismissive of you" Allport

Don't pin that one on me. You can be an atheist or agnostic in NA. I know many of them. --REZ

[Gmoney]

So what you are all saying is that if you hang around long enough you won't be agnostic anymore?

Nope...that didn't come from me either. I understand that being Agnostic means one who takes the stance that God is an unknown (neither proven, nor disproven). One could say, indifferent. What I am saying is, my view of life and "Powers" greater than myself changed over time and there are a great many things that are Powers greater than me.

I've searched, researched and investigated many things related to beliefs, and my conclusions are mine. Open-mindedness allowed me to entertain a variety of concepts (including those in literature of other fellowships), but in the end, I found what works for me.

There are atheists and agnostics in NA...and they, too, recover.

G

[tomvlll]

Originally Posted by Gmoney

Nope...that didn't come from me either. I understand that being Agnostic means one who takes the stance that God is an unknown (neither proven, nor disproven). One could say, indifferent. What I am saying is, my view of life and "Powers" greater than myself changed over time and there are a great many things that are Powers greater than me.

I've searched, researched and investigated many things related to beliefs, and my conclusions are mine. Open-mindedness allowed me to entertain a variety of concepts (including those in literature of other fellowships), but in the end, I found what works for me.

There are atheists and agnostics in NA...and they, too, recover.

G

The core of AA and NA IS agnosticim. God as we understand him.(sic)

[andyaddict]

Originally Posted by allport

So what you are all saying is that if you hang around long enough you won't be agnostic anymore?

That came from me.




For an agnostic or atheist that stays clean in NA, they usually come from one of two places.

Either:

1) They are not really an addict

or

2) The God of their understanding has not come apparent to them yet.

a

[Gmoney]

"My spiritual progress has been somewhat different from what I expected. As I have matured in the program and learned to think for myself, I have examined the principles upon which I base my life. By doing this, I found out that I do not believe in any kind of God, and that my higher Power is the power of the program. Today I am an atheist. I still concentrate on my own recovery because if I am well, then I can be of value to others, but if I am sick, then I am of no use to anyone, not even myself.

Being an atheist does not stop me from working the program. The only thing I do not do, of course, is pray. The main thing is that I do what is possible with what I have got. No one can do more. The advice that I was given at my first meeting still holds good today, 'Don't pick up the first drink or drug, go to meetings and work the steps.'"

Narcotics Anonymous Basic Text (5th Ed.), page 278

[huntsober]

For an agnostic or atheist that stays clean in NA, they usually come from one of two places.

Either:

1) They are not really an addict

or

2) The God of their understanding has not come apparent to them yet.


See.... you guys say what I mean to say in so fear words... Well said Andrew...thanks