I really need some love....and ESH

[daydream]

Family, I'm a mess. I'll explain as concisely as I can, but to adequately convey what's happening, this will have to be very long! Anyone who has time to read and comment, please do. I am in a world of hurt and don't know what to do.


Over the last couple years I gradually lost my passion for recovery. Then my sponsor suddenly and without explanation walked out of my life. Just stopped returning any of my calls, ignored all my messages and even the snail mail I sent asking what happened. She had been my sponsor for 2 years and I had shared my life with her whole-heartedly, so I was devastated that she abandoned me. She lives hours away, so I couldn't just stop by. I was so hurt that I quit going to meetings and vowed not to get close to anyone again. I eventually found out that this is a pattern for that sponsor. I'm not the only one she abandoned without so much as a goodbye and it wasn't about me at all, but it affected me deeply. Last time I spoke with her she had invited me up for some christmas parties and a weekend in TN with her. I never heard from her again. I attended a meeting maybe once every 2 months, but other than that I was out of the circuit. I say all this so you see that I was in a very fragile state when the following happened:

Fast forward to 2 few weeks ago. I finally got my willingness and courage together to make a sincere effort at getting back on the right track. I returned to meetings. What a mistake. I should never have gone back. I met a young girl who has 3 years clean. She moved here to be with her bf. I noticed right away that she was badmouthing a lot of people, playing the martyr victim role a lot. She was chair for our small function and went around telling everyone, even on a recovery message board, that she had to do everything all by herself. She's been bashing our home group really badly on the other site. About 10 days ago at the meeting facility this girl came in bashing a local member, making some pretty ugly allegations. She spewed this stuff loudly and about 20 people heard her say it. No telling how many more she told at other times/places. Because of who she was talking about, I believed what she said. I shouldn't have. And believe me when I say I generally do not have a gossip problem. I'm well-trusted where I live for not repeating things. Before this I honestly can't even remember the last time I repeated gossip--probably a couple years. But damnit if I didn't go and repeat this rumor to 2 people (married couple) who live hundreds of miles away. The next day I saw info on facebook that contradicted the rumor, so the girl had almost certainly lied about it. About 24 hours later after doing my 10th step I realized my wrong and I sent an amends to that married couple to retract what I said. I admitted my wrong and said I shouldn't have repeated the rumor even if it had been true, though it probably wasn't. I actually DEFENDED this woman that the rumor was about. I made sure to tell them that i now had reason to believe the rumor wasn't even true. I mentioned unity and how important it is, in hopes that the rumor would not be spread further. Since the woman I gossiped about didn't know it, it would have been wrong of me to go tell her what I did (second half of step 9), so I did my best to correct the information and my plan was to just do something nice for that woman without her knowing. That was the best amends I knew how to make.

Imagine my shock when a couple days later I learn that that amends I sent was forwarded to the person who was gossiped about. Although I didn't name the person who started the rumor, the person who was gossiped about figured out who it was and forwarded the email to other people. She began posting really ugly messages about me on facebook to people who know me to make sure everyone knew I had gossiped about her. BTW this woman who was gossiped about has 20 years clean in NA. She is THE biggest troublemaker and gossip in this area and the worst I have ever known in 20 years of NA attendance. So this was the pot calling the kettle black in a major way. The person who forwarded my private email amends to her also has 20 years clean. The "gossipee" apparently has gone after the girl who started it, who in turn is calling me a liar and telling it to whoever will listen. She is pulling my NA friends off to the side and telling them this bs trying to make me look bad. She is posting hateful messages about me on facebook and another site, just as the gossippee is. Her friends joined in and there were many more ugly remarks about me, one being that I shouild be F***** up the *** with a bent rusty spoon! Can you imagine reading this about yourself on the page of someone you hardly even know!?!?! Only after I talked to her husband about it did she take that single comment down. The rest have remained.

As soon as I found out that the gossippee knew I had gossiped about her, I emailed her my sincerest amends. Because of how much trouble she causes in our area, I felt it would be better to put my amends to her in writing (for proof of what I did and didn't say) and do it asap on the off chance it might discourage her from being an ass. I acknowledged what I had done and told her how deeply I regretted it. One would hope that a woman with 20 years clean who goes to meetings regularly and claims to work steps would at the very LEAST take her rants to her sponsor, but nooooooooo....... she is using it to tell everyone what an awful person I am for gossiping about her. She is posting accusations with my name included on other people's facebook. I was taught in NA that some people would take my sincerest amends and twist them to use against me, but it's real F'd up when the people doing it have substantial clean time and have never had a conflict with me before!

So now the delimna: The last few meetings I've gone to noone would talk to me. Saturday night I made a 2nd attempt to talk with the girl who started the false rumor to begin with, not in a confrontational manner, but with a sincere desire to resolve whatever was going on. AFter all, I had done nothing to her. The fact that the gossippee found out she started the false rumor isn't on me, but on the person who fowarded my amends. And for all I know, any of the 20 or so people who heard her start the rumor could have told the gossippee too. So Saturday night at the meeting I asked the girl "(name), can we talk?" She refused and I walked away. I was ignored by the other women even though I tried to greet and make small talk with them. They sat at the table together with the rumor-starter passing notes the whole time, with an occassional glance in my direction and laughter. After the meeting I left, crying, feeling completely unwanted and like I don't belong there anymore.

But I didn't give up just then. I went back again last night, hoping maybe a friend would be there, maybe it would be different this time, but noooooo... The first person I walked up to I greeted would not even look up at me. He was the only person sitting there and no one was talking to him, so he absolutely knew I had spoken to him. I spoke to him again. Ignored again. I spoke to a few other women who would not so much as say hello or smile at me. I finally found one male friend who made a little small-talk with me. He was sitting right beside the male who had twice refused to speak to me. So once again I said "(name), how have you been doing?" He just looked up and said "fine". Not another word. A female friend pulled up in her car and I walked over to try and say hi. Another person came up and spoke to her too. She spoke back to him and ignored me, then drove off.

So I sat outside, lips quivering, waiting until about meeting time before going inside. Suddenly 2 bikers pulled up. Keep in mind I am the largest woman in my home group. Biker gets off his bike and says to his buddy rather loudly, "It's kind like FAT women. You'll ride 'em, but you don't want your buddies to know you been on 'em!" That was it. I couldn't take it any more. I left crying again.

After keeping all this pent up I finally called one of the girls I've known a few years who goes there. Unlike the gossippee and the girl who started the rumor to begin with, I have not gone around telling everyone who will listen. I have not gone around badmouthing either of them. I have not forwarded their hostile, childish emails or facebook comments. I have TRIED to keep my side of the street clean, yet I am taking all this hell based only on the fact that I gossipped to 2 people who live probably 600 miles away! And they saw the amends! Well, in talking to this one female friend, I learned that miss rumor starter has caused problems for a few other people in the past few weeks. She baked cookies shaped like a pig and wrote a girl's name on them and brought them to the meeting. The girl who's name was on the pig cookies is substantially overweight. The girl has done other hurtful things that has a newcomer not wanting to come back. This friend told me that the issues are going to be brought up in group conscience this Sunday. Before anyone jumps me, read what I said. someone ELSE is planning to bring all this stuff up that the rumor-starter is doing. I don't know whether I should participate or not. On one hand I generally don't think group conscience is the place to hash out personal differences. On the other hand, this girl is pitting the women against one another, lying on us, bashing our home group online, dragging our names through the mud. This is destroying our unity! THAT is a group problem. So perhaps she SHOULD be confronted on this by the group. At this point I don't even know if I'll go back at all. There's too much hurt. But if I do, should I participate in trying to resolve this at group conscience? I don't think anyone is going to try and run the girl off. We just want her to STOP so no one has to feel the kind of pain we're feeling because of the awful things she is doing to us. Something has to give. I am not in a frame of mind to deal with this much longer. I really cannot take it.

[Sugah]

Wow, daydream, I don't know what to say. I've been in some pretty toxic environments masquerading as recovery communities, but nothing like what you describe. It's NA, not the sixth grade.

I'll wait for the others to come along and offer E, S & H -- though I will say a prayer that you not lose your way on the path. It sounds like you're using tools given to you, and in that way, no matter what happens in this situation, you don't have to use over it.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[citychick]

Well, that's not the kind of recovery you want, is it?

It'll be hard but maybe you can show them what real recovery looks like daydream.

We're powerless over people and what they think of us isn't our business. Be the bigger person. Try to be kind and pleasant and eventually your behaviour will show them the wrongness of theirs.

From your post I can see that you tried to clean your side of the street...Good for you daydream.!

Are there any other meetings you can get to besides that one?


Hugs

[REZ]

The bottom line is I can only be responsible for my recovery, not anyone else's. There are some sick people in NA. This should came as no surprise. We are addicts trying to get well. All I can say is keep going to meetings, don't use no matter what, get a sponsor, work the steps, pray/meditate, and try not to get all caught up in all the gossip and drama. Focus on your recovery, not on who said what about whom.

[Paulie]

It's NA, not the sixth grade

My thoughts exactly.

Ditto to what has already been said. Work your program, stay away from the drama, surround yourself with people who want recovery like you do.

Don't say you shouldnt have gone back to meetings, dont blame NA for the inmaturity and lack on integrity that some people have, some people are just that way.

Keep working on you and keep doing the next right thing.

[kj3880]

I don't know what is going on with this one, I'm sorry you're having this problem in recovery. I'm trying to read between the lines. I'm going to try to say some things that may be hard to hear, and I'll try to say it in a loving way. I've been where you are a few times in life, because I can be very tactless at times! What we know from your post:

A. Your sponsor quit on you, no warning.
B. All your recovery friends are angry and not speaking.

From these two facts, A. and B., I'm inferring that there are things that you are saying or doing that you are unaware are hurting people's feelings. When we come into the rooms, sometimes our social skills are a bit screwed up from us operating in the manipulative, toxic environment of active addicts. So I'm thinking that you are talking, not meaning to hurt others, and they are getting hurt. Sometimes that can happen.

People in your area are apparently being childish, and they have blown it out of proportion. Recovery is supposed to make us more accepting, but addicts in recovery are still people and gossip can still hurt them. You must have repeated some hurtful gossip but you still deserve to be forgiven. God forgives us, so we must forgive each other.

First, forgive yourself. Put down the bat. We all gossip sometimes. Some of us do it to get attention, some out of concern. Very few gossips are trying to be hurtful on purpose. Look at your motives here, and figure out a better way to express your concern or get some love. Make your ammends, Then forgive yourself and let it go.

I had an experience a bit like this when I dumped my first sponsor and ran my mouth about some things she did that made me mad. I was hurt, and so I was trying to hurt back. I ended up feeling very guilty and looking rather silly. Eventually, I decided to humble myself and make a public amend. So I spoke about how sorry I was at a meeting she was chairing. I shared that I had spoken ill of her, that she didn't deserve it, and that I was sorry. She just nodded. She has continued her policy of not speaking to me, but now I'm OK with it. I made my amends, and I'm over it. I kept coming back, didn't let her run me out of any meetings, and you know what? People forgot about it after a while. The turnover at NA is so high that it's almost impossible to keep a nasty rep alive there, anyway, at least in my area.

So hang in there. Keep being of service to the newcomer. They will learn that you are a wonderful person, and will ignore the rumors. Most newcomers are so caught up in their own pain that they don't have energy to hate on you. So put your focus there for now. It will die out, and in a few months, people will say "What were we so mad about?"

In the meantime, if you need to for your recovery, take in a weekly meeting in another area or the other fellowship and make some new friends. It'll pass.

Love,
KJ

[Wolfchild]

There are many situations that occur in my local Area that i'd like to go put my foot up a few people's asses. i try my best to not become impatient or intolerant of people, but i don't always keep a proper perspective on what i see happening around me. i have learned how to not react when the tension is high within me and relax enough to pray for them. What has helped me tremendously is the knowledge that a self centered person, who is not taking responsibility for their life or their recovery, is going to experience the consequences of their attitudes & actions sooner or later. i have been developing the ability to call people on their sh*t in a caring & loving way for a couple years now. Don't always get the wording of that right with people, but then again, sometimes it doesn't even matter cause their not listening anyway! We are each others eyes and eyes in this way of life, but we can only own our part in things. Going through things like this (and many others!) has helped me to learn how to apply the 12 Traditions in a way that lets me be me without expecting anything ot anyone to be perfect.

Please, get through your frustrations without causing damage to yourself or your recovery. Discussing the matter in a group conscience is perhaps the best way to go with this for now and i hope that God gives you all direction with that person. i appreciate your making amends as best you can and i hope that you will continue to leave the results in the hands of your Higher Power. There is a greater good that our fellowship is about and i hope that you can keep on carrying the message that this way of life works in the way that you live this program of recovery on a daily basis. i pray that you will keep going to meetings and help someone else to stay clean another day.

[huntsober]

Sad events...
we have found however that those who keep coming to our meetings stay clean. ....good line, wish I would have thought of it on my own but you all know where it comes from.
My ESH is that ALL my problems today can be resolved some where between #1 and 12. Seek, digg and find your peace in the PROGRAM. THe fellowship is just a group of people. The program is however a whole different thing. Prayers sent...

[Paulie]

My ESH is that ALL my problems today can be resolved some where between #1 and 12. Seek, digg and find your peace in the PROGRAM. THe fellowship is just a group of people. The program is however a whole different thing.

GREAT words.

[daydream]

Let me clarify for some: there's no need to read between the lines. When I come on here and ask for help, I provide accurate information, even what I did wrong. I have not said hurtful things to my friends to make them upset with me. When I referred to those people as my friends I should have called them my aquaintances. The ones not speaking to me are newcomers of similar age to the young girl who is talking about me. Around here, there are few women with clean time, maybe 5 in my group have more than 2 years clean. Those who have clean time generally don't come to many meetings. Thus when I go to meetings the majority of people there are newcomers who I don't know well. Because I had not been to meetings in awhile before this happened, I neither knew these people well nor had the opportunity to offend them. This is a case of school yard bullying where one kid goes to all her friends and gets them to side with her and cause trouble for the person she doesn't like. The people who are my REAL friends just were not at these 3 meetings where I was being ignored (one friend was there).

As for the gossip I repeated, the gossip was that when the chairperson for a major area function relapsed, this woman at the group cancelled it although another area was offerring to put the function on. This was a MAJOR function that hundreds attend for a weekend every year. When the other area asked for contact information for speakers to try and save the event, this woman refused to give any info that would help the other area save the function. That was the rumor spewed by this young girl. I repeated that to 2 people. No name calling, nothing like that. I repeated the rumor as stated above, including that it had been spread by "a girl", no names or description included. It's not like I accused her of being a murderer or anything criminal! The rumor was that she interfered with a function for goodness sake! And not like I even identified the person who started it, although the gossippee figured it out anyway.

The function was saved after all, by a different area that stepped in. It's coming up a week from now. I've never missed it since I moved here 7 years ago. It's usually the highlight of my year. But now I just don't see how I could go. I wouldn't be able to avoid the handful of people who are causing most of the trouble. I am soooooo deeply depressed now that .......well.....let's just say using and checking out both sound pretty good. But I've got a kid, so checking out isn't an option right now and that makes me mad because I really just want to be doen with this world. I'm half sleeping a lot, meaning I can't sleep because of all this racing through my mind, yet I do my best to stay in bed and at least be half asleep to pass the time. And to think that I went back to meetings 2 weeks ago to get my passion back for recovery. A fact that I shared with the same girl who is doing her best to drive me away after I only attended a few meetings.

[kj3880]

If you let this girl drive you out of meetings, or use over it (as you have said you are tempted to do) then what comes next? You won't feel any better. And you will have more problems.

I've gone through a couple of sponsors, too. One of them spread my business around, the other was childish and cruel to me. But I just kept coming back. It isn't worth it to go back out there.

When I say that I'm trying to read between the lines, I'm not intimating that you are lying, merely that there are things that happening in this situation that you are unaware of. If you truly feel, as you say, that you are blameless, and that it is a case of school-yard bullying, then just ignore them. It will dry up.

If you stick around, there will be bigger problems in your recovered life to come, unless you are the most fortunate woman I've ever met. You could use this as practice for hanging in there when the going gets tough. Trust me, if you hang in there, this whole situation will seem funny to you in a year or so.

Love,
KJ

[Paulie]

Don't let them rent space in your head, you are giving them to much power.
Don't go to the function, but go to meetings, get a sponsor, start working the steps again. This is YOUR recovery for YOU!!!! It will pass, negative stuff like this always does. Your side of the street is clean. That is what is important.

[andyaddict]

If you're going to let a few personalities run you off from your meetings and events, might I suggest looking back at what run you in here in the first place?

If what got you here is of less significance then, by all means, run along. However, by most people's accounts when they look at it that way they're lives and everything close to them were in jeopardy and a few personalities are of little concern when one's life is at stake.

I always look at controversy as a God-given opportunity to rely on Him and practice faith through spiritual principles to outgrow and overcome these difficulties. You asked for it, an opportunity to get back into your steps - well... here you have it!




a

[daydream]

But do you guys think the problems she is causing should be brought up in group conscience? Like I said before, ordinarily I think group conscience is not the place to settle personal conflicts, but this girl is causing problems for several people, causing some to want to leave and even bashing our home group on other recovery websites. She's not even trying to conceal what group she's talking about. Nor is she telling the whole truth. She's pitting members against one another and seriously damaging the unity in our group. To me, that would seem grounds for discussion at group conscience. What do you think? Should we just try to fight our battles individually or try to address this head on as a group? I don't even know if it's going to happen. I have only heard a little and have not sought out anyone who is supposedly planning to bring it before the group. God knows i'm not going to be accused of trying to gather the accusors. Should I participate in this if it happens? Honestly I don't see how I can keep going there if it doesn't get resolved.

[REZ]

If what she is doing is affecting the group, then yes, it can be discussed at the group conscience. Groups must adhere to the 12 traditions and maintain an atmosphere of recovery. Clearly, she is going against this.

[Wolfchild]

i bring up anything at our Group Conscious that affects our ability to serve in a kind & caring way. i've discussed personal struggles in my recovery, difficulties with my committments, & things that affect us carrying a clear message of recovery in our meetings. It doesn't matter if the situation gets resolved or not, i've shared what my problem is & what i want to do about it. It's a special time for me because God is able to express his will for us as a group and as individual members in recovery. Just getting out on the table what my perspective is on things has helped others see things that they overlooked or were'nt aware of. It's an intimate sharing of our lives as recovering addicts who are seeking solutions to our problems. It's also a process of personal healing for us because we share what we're going thru and how we want to stay committed to our primary purpose.

i hope you will find strength, love, & acceptance in your group conscious
to handle this situation in a way that resolves the problem compassionatly.

[andyaddict]

The only reason I'd support a GC on this matter is so that you all would learn that the GC in not the forum to address these kinds of issues - a learning process, that's all.

Otherwise, no, no special meeting of the GC. These people will soon find themselves on the outside with no help from any of us - they are engaged in self-destructive behavior. Their lives depend upon their conformity so spiritual principles, if they don't, they sicken and potentially die. That is their punishment, we need no other.

If you MUST address this issue, do so in a share - an honest and sincere share that not only opens you to scrutiny but exposes the truth in the matter. Addicts are not stupid mind you, they will see through your share if it is not sincere in your sharing YOUR part or if you are trying to make others look bad.

Share about God, where your meditation brought you to, and what spiritual principles you are exercising to outgrow the situation. Believe it or not, the majority (usually the silent majority) are going to meetings to connect with that spiritual Power, one that usually very illusive to us. Often it takes only ONE meeting in a guided spiritual direction to turn the tide in an area.

Anyway... again, good luck with that.

a

[Lily]

Daydream,

I am so sorry about what you are going through and don't really have any answers for you but I will share with you my ESH.

There was a lady who came to our NA a while back. (From AA and told everyone how awful they were at the AA club.) Then-she started really made things very uncomfortable for many of us due to her over powering personality and anger towards many people in the program of NA all while in the middle of a divorce from her 3rd or 4th husband. (Pattern) She was mad at me for something too. Well, she did drive me away from one meeting and that meeting ended up shutting down, BUT she ended up leaving! She left and things got back to normal.

Hang in there! That woman scared me and I did stay away from her, but found another place for NA fellowship. Then she left. I hear she then made her way to a Christian church based meeting and tore out of there angry too.

Things tend to come out in the wash....

(((HUGS))) Sheila

[Paulie]

IMO no this is not something that is discussed at group level. I truly believe (from experience) that if you just let it play out, it will stop. Just worry about you and your recovery. NA will survive this high school drama that is being played right now, it has for years and it will for years to come.

[Missybuns]

Originally Posted by Paulie

IMO no this is not something that is discussed at group level. I truly believe (from experience) that if you just let it play out, it will stop. Just worry about you and your recovery. NA will survive this high school drama that is being played right now, it has for years and it will for years to come.

I agree.

NA will survive and, Daydream, you will too. Keep showing up and letting others see we are human and no matter what, stay clean. Serenity isn't tricky....addiction is.

Peace,
Missy

[daydream]

Well, a few of us women have decided to take her to the side after a meeting and let her know her behavior will not be ignored. People are coming out of the woodwork with stories of things she has done to them in recent weeks. And the final straw, it seems she has made some serious allegations against a long-term male member of our group after already causing problems in his marriage she has stooped to this new low. We are going to attempt to handle it privately with just us few women in an effort to avoid embarrassing her in front of the entire group. We have no desire to run her off, just to get her to stop trying to tear us apart.

[kj3880]

She sounds very sick to do such low things for attention. I'll pray for her and that you all are able to deal with her in a way that will make it OK for her to keep coming back even though she is causing some trouble. I know how upsetting it can be to your serenity to have to look at someone at a meeting who just gets under your skin. I've been there a few times already. I kept coming back and the situations fade out after a while. Especially if I pray for the involved parties, myself included.

Love,
KJ