Another question about court slips
It is what it is!!!
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sobriety
Posts: 5,767
KJ if you are referring to me...I was NOT taking your inventory, I was agreeing with Andy on how IMO some people are when it comes to the traditions.
Please do not take things so personal. That is the problem with the written word on a computer screen, we cannot hear the tone of the voice speaking or see the eyes of the person responding and often we can take things to personal, I have done it many times myself.
That is all no big deal, nothing personal here. And if you werent referring to me....good, but still don't things so personal, no one is taking anyones inventory it was just suggested that you look at why it bothers you, thats all. We post on an open forum and we are going to get responses that maybe we dont like, or responses that cause us to think a bit or look at our part. :ghug3
Please do not take things so personal. That is the problem with the written word on a computer screen, we cannot hear the tone of the voice speaking or see the eyes of the person responding and often we can take things to personal, I have done it many times myself.
That is all no big deal, nothing personal here. And if you werent referring to me....good, but still don't things so personal, no one is taking anyones inventory it was just suggested that you look at why it bothers you, thats all. We post on an open forum and we are going to get responses that maybe we dont like, or responses that cause us to think a bit or look at our part. :ghug3
*Grateful*
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,619
KJ,
Please answer me this, if you do not feel comfortable signing the court slips then why not just say that to the person who hands it to you?
I have been at meetings where the person chairing didn't feel comfortable signing and passed it down to someone else who did.
Could you do that?
Sheila
Please answer me this, if you do not feel comfortable signing the court slips then why not just say that to the person who hands it to you?
I have been at meetings where the person chairing didn't feel comfortable signing and passed it down to someone else who did.
Could you do that?
Sheila
Certified NA Counselor
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Newport Beach Ca., US
Posts: 458
Originally Posted by andyaddict 
Irony, I believe, is the key to understanding the traditions. It took me a great deal of research, participation, and application to understand.
Just as with the paradoxical slogan of the steps - you got to give it away to keep it - so goes the traditions - you got to let go to keep them.
"Lack of power, that was our dilemma. We had to find a power by which we could live, and it had to be a Power greater than ourselves." Alcoholics Anonymous p. 45
The key to understanding the traditions comes through understanding the spirit of the steps. This same Power greater than ourselves is where we are directed whilst seeking who's in charge via our traditions - a loving God as he expresses Himself in our group conscience.
I head Bill Wilson speak once on the traditions where he said in one short breath what I could find no where else in my studies. He shared how the traditions were designed to protect us from ourselves, particularly to "take power AWAY" from us, never to give any power or authority to us.
Hence the path of understanding the traditions had to be rooted in humility and not power and control no matter how it was dressed up. I simplified this in my program as seeing anything that asks, suggests, or implies such of anyone in the room is, in essence, quite often compromising the spirit of our Twelve Traditions.
Bill mentioned that the absolute MINIMUM organization should be used in our meetings and that if ANY rules or codes of conduct were to be implemented an unrest and disunity were going to be imminent as we've seen over the past 20+ years in NA over the language issue.
For any who really wants to get into the meat of the traditions, don't just glimpse over but study Bill's writings on the traditions. Look to find the spirit and wisdom in what he wrote; don't take my word for it.
a
Certified NA Counselor
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Newport Beach Ca., US
Posts: 458
Originally Posted by Paulie
That is the problem with the written word on a computer screen, we cannot hear the tone of the voice speaking or see the eyes of the person responding and often we can take things to personal, I have done it many times myself.
The problem with literature is language. The feelings, the intensity, and the strengths are sometimes lost.
a
Evolving Addict
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York State
Posts: 3,067
Garry, I think you are a blowhard and I don't particularly care for the clothes you're wearing either.
The problem with literature is language. The feelings, the intensity, and the strengths are sometimes lost.
Bill mentioned that the absolute MINIMUM organization should be used in our meetings and that if ANY rules or codes of conduct were to be implemented an unrest and disunity were going to be imminent as we've seen over the past 20+ years in NA over the language issue.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: md
Posts: 3,042
If any of you read the first post, you'd see that I did, in fact, defer to the group conscience on this matter, as I always do. We don't have any choice. The group conscience is the way we decide things in NA. I'm not the Governor of my group. Just a servant. But I do get to have my one vote, and that is all I get. I'm fine with that. The trusted servant who has been given the task of signing court slips, L. (as it says in the first post) is her own person. She's fine with signing most slips.
The topic of this thread was not whether we should sign the slips. I made that abundantly clear in my original post. I should have known that even though I did that, some people would use this a way to try to argue whether we should sign them. I still don't believe it's good for our fellowship, but that is not in my control. Which I'm fine with.
The topic of this thread is that particular program attendance slip that I originally quoted. And the fact that L, a good friend of mine as well as fellow home group member, passed the slip to me because she, and she is a big fan of the slip signing, she did not feel OK about filling this particular slip out. And this slip asked for the SECRETARIES' SIGNATURE. So that's how I ended up even seeing and becoming involved in deciding about the slip. Normally, I pay no attention to the slips. It's just not my thing. And I'm OK with that.
SO to once again clarify, I'm not getting into whether we should sign the slips. Just whether a meeting secretary should provide his/her full name and phone number to a program so that a counselor can call and ask him/her about a particular member's participation and attendance at a particular meeting. And whether or not you all would feel comfortable or even OK about filling this out and possibly fielding these calls.
Some people gave good suggestions, such as using a rubber stamp, or perhaps having the PI people visit the recovery center. Thanks for those, because that is what I was hoping for. Some EHS, not some confrontation about how you perceive my personality. Your opinion about my personality is none of my business. I didn't ask for any feedback about that.
Thanks,
KJ
The topic of this thread was not whether we should sign the slips. I made that abundantly clear in my original post. I should have known that even though I did that, some people would use this a way to try to argue whether we should sign them. I still don't believe it's good for our fellowship, but that is not in my control. Which I'm fine with.
The topic of this thread is that particular program attendance slip that I originally quoted. And the fact that L, a good friend of mine as well as fellow home group member, passed the slip to me because she, and she is a big fan of the slip signing, she did not feel OK about filling this particular slip out. And this slip asked for the SECRETARIES' SIGNATURE. So that's how I ended up even seeing and becoming involved in deciding about the slip. Normally, I pay no attention to the slips. It's just not my thing. And I'm OK with that.
SO to once again clarify, I'm not getting into whether we should sign the slips. Just whether a meeting secretary should provide his/her full name and phone number to a program so that a counselor can call and ask him/her about a particular member's participation and attendance at a particular meeting. And whether or not you all would feel comfortable or even OK about filling this out and possibly fielding these calls.
Some people gave good suggestions, such as using a rubber stamp, or perhaps having the PI people visit the recovery center. Thanks for those, because that is what I was hoping for. Some EHS, not some confrontation about how you perceive my personality. Your opinion about my personality is none of my business. I didn't ask for any feedback about that.
Thanks,
KJ
Om, Aum, Ohm...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Punxsutawney/Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,797
KJ, I chimed in only with a comment that could have been interpreted as flippant -- though I was very serious.
Do you have a PI committee that could send a representative to see this "program manager" and explain that providing the asked-for information is a traditions violation? Deciding what to do with the slips is one thing, though it leaves the issue of misconceptions about the program unresolved. Part of cooperating (not affiliating) with outside agencies is helping them to understand what we do and what we don't do.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
Do you have a PI committee that could send a representative to see this "program manager" and explain that providing the asked-for information is a traditions violation? Deciding what to do with the slips is one thing, though it leaves the issue of misconceptions about the program unresolved. Part of cooperating (not affiliating) with outside agencies is helping them to understand what we do and what we don't do.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
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