Attended Outside Area Mtg--no Traditions

[Missybuns]

Me and one of my gal-pal friends in recovery had a desire to travel north 50 miles or so to an Indianpolis meeting. This is outside our south central area.

We have a fairly small area attendance, although it is growing!

After having a nice Father's day celebration last Sunday with my Dad, family and extended family, my gal-pal and I headed north to go to a meeting we had never been to.

There were 6 to choose from. We chose one formatted to have a speaker for the first 20 minutes then open up for discussion.

The secretary handed out readings to several...I was willing and so was my gal-pal. We did notice they did not select all 7 of the readings. I have seen this before and understand it to be a time saver. However, I was very suprised and somewhat disappointed one of the readings that was left out was the 12 Traditions. Ok...now I realize this disappointment has to do with the expectation of the Traditions being read. I took offense to it. There were 50 people in this meeting and the traditions were not even mentioned!

I do know there was a first time attendee also, they introduced themselves.

When it came time for burning desires I should have spoke up and didn't.

I discussed it with my sponsor and I had a feeling she would ask "did you say something?".....no I didn't. Now I have a case of the "shouldas" so I'm shouldin' all over myself and thought I'd share about it here.

When I thought back to how I was feeling, it occurred to me I didn't want to stir the pot. I reasoned I was a "visitor" at this meeting. I was from an outside area...and I do not know if this is a regular thing at this meeting...then I realized I was stepping into the "blah-blah-blah" justifying zone.

So here is what I learned from this experience:

I am a member of NA no matter where I go. I understand the importance of the 12 Traditions to our fellowship. If I ever attend a meeting that makes no mention of the fact NA has traditions...I will certainly make mention that NA has 12 Traditions that keep our fellowship alive and free. I will pull out my basic text and read the Twelve Traditions.

Peace,
Missy

[Wolfchild]

i always go to a home group member after the meeting if something seems amiss in a meeting. Granted, many people in our area have gotten so used to me, that they are willing to discuss any matter one on one with me. They have come to understand that i am either trying to learn something or i'm indentifying something that could help carry a clear message of hope. Waiting till afterward not only preserves the atmosphere of recovery at a meeting, it allow us the freedom to help each other in case of a simple misunderstanding. Ultimatly, it's up to the group's conscious to do anything about anything. i believe that i should not identify what i see as a problem unless i am willing to also be part of the solution. i attend many meetings outside our area and usually don't say anything unless i notice a continuing pattern of something awry. Then, i usually just ask a couple people after the meeting, in a nonchalant way about the situation. Helps me to avoid looking the fool in case i'm a little too tightly wound at that time!

i appreciate your passion about maintaining your recovery and
your willingness to take action. Keep the faith Missybuns!!

[Missybuns]

ok and thankyou for your input Wolfchild.

I agree with you on becoming part of the solution. As a member I have a right and a responsibilty to mention NA has Twelve Tradtions and to read what they are in any meeting.

In cases like this I will not make any comment at all on the groups format...Ima just do it.

I won't interupt the format or do it in the middle of the discussions.

Most meetings ask for anyone to speak up if they have a burning desire to share before they close the meeting. If a new comer doesn't speak up it's my turn to mention the Twelve Traditions. Also if it's during the burning desires portion I won't read the extra paragraphs usually a part of the reading...just the Twelve Traditions themselves.

I am not worried about offending anyone by reading the Twelve Traditions.

I have become a part carrying the NA messege of recovery after meetings on more than one occasion. I also do it afterwards and in a manner of questions rather than aggression.

I have no desire to whack anyone over the head with Traditions, only to read what they are as a part of any NA meeting.

Grateful,
Missy

[2ala2]

Hello Missy,
In the Group Booklet (under sample meeting format) it says:
"select people before the meeting to read one or more of the following short pieces:"
Then it lists the 7.
It would seem awkward to me too if the traditions weren't read. If I was going to attend more meetings there, then I would attend their business meeting and speak my concern.
Blessings

[Missybuns]

ok for the sake of more discussion here,

In the Group Booklet (under sample meeting format) it says:
"select people before the meeting to read one or more of the following short pieces:"
Then it lists the 7.

The word format in this context means how the meeting is laid out.
As far as "Readings" go as suggested content, the way I understand it the 12 steps and 12 traditions are not just "readings" they are the program. Groups are autonomous except matters where is effects other groups..or in this case NA as a whole. A group is autonomous as long as it follows steps and traditions.

It only takes two to have a meeting and in any meeting I ever attend the 12 steps and 12 Traditions will be read even if I have to read them myself. I don't need the groups conscience in a business meeting to be a part of a group while in meeting attendance.

Kinda silly to get a groups conscience about reading NA's Twelve Traditions in an NA meeting.

See this particular meeting I went to had no posters up either. Many meeting places (even ones where we don't affix our posters) post the steps and traditions on the walls in the meeting vicinity. I wouldn't feel a burning desire to mention the Traditions (and steps if necessary) if they are posted where anyone in the meeting can see them.

I just did a test....I introduced myself and said I have a desire to read NA's Twelve Traditions and then read them 1-12. No intro paragraph and no paragraphs after, just the traditions themselves. It took 1:40. 100 seconds. Not much time at all.

I stated it offended me when the Traditions weren't read or mentioned at all during the meeting.

2ala2 used the word 'awkward'...yep that's a good word here!

I didn't get angry, just a bit surprised and yes it felt awkward and it became one topic of discussion with my gal-pal on our ride home. The main reason I didn't address it to any home group members (and not going to lose any sleep over it) is because there was lady who was at her first meeting and no one greeted her when she came in. We'd arrived a bit early (before any home group members) and introduced ourselves to the ladies who said it was their home group. Because it was my first time at this particular meeting how could I know this particular lady was new as she took a seat. Everyone was getting seated and within 3 minutes the meeting began. When she introduced herself is how we learned it was her first meeting. At that point occurred to me none of the home group ladies even said hello to her. So after the meeting me and my gal-pal went to her to welcome her and hug her. The new comer is more important than a one time visiting member (me) waving a Traditions flag after the meeting to the home group members.

I joked with my friend that maybe I should get a tattoo on my forehead that is a flag waving with "The Twelve Traditions" on it. LOL

I do get around to different meetings. I have been to several in that area, and in two of my neighboring states, California, Texas. Went to the World Convention in San Antonio in 2007, had a great time!

If anyone is ever in central Indiana let me know, I'd love for ya to come to my home group. We meet on Mondays.

thanks for reading,
Missy

[huntsober]

We did not read the traditions when I got clean. I like the fact that we do now. I do at times think that 7 readings is a bit much. My MAIN PROBLEM is if readings are going to be read.....no chanting or sayings should ever be said during hte readings. There is no deeper level of disrespect to our founders than to carry out this behavior. Its the lowest level of cross talk. This is my 2 cents and NA gave them to me to use as I see fit....

[Missybuns]

Originally Posted by huntsober

This is my 2 cents and NA gave them to me to use as I see fit....

LOL and I appreciate your two cents! I agree to talk or chant or interrupt in anyway is disrespectful.

I don't even like them to pass the basket while the readings are going on. Pass it during the secretary or GSR announcements....LOL new topic

[baggervance]

You want the traditions read but seem not to want to follow them. What you are suggesting does affect other groups or na as a whole requiring all groups to read the traditions. I hate all the reading there is way to much hell by the time my group gets thru reading and announcing half the meeting is gone.

[Missybuns]

baggervance that's a misunderstanding.

I suggested nothing. I concluded I would make mention of and/or read the traditions in any meeting if they haven't been mentioned or posted.

I don't believe it to be a requirement for all groups and never said that.

I did say the steps and traditions are not just readings and I understand them to be the program.For me to make mention of them does not mean I think it should be a requirement for every group to read the Traditions at every meeting. What this thread is about is me realizing, as a member, I have just as much right to bring up traditions as much as a group does to chose not to read them...in any discussion meeting.

Just yesterday a secretary locked her meeting stuff in her trunk and locked the keys inside the car. We had no readings. So we read How it Works (the steps) and The Twelve Traditions from a Basic Text. I wasn't the one who chose these two readings.

If anyone asked for my input and we had only one to read it would be the How it Works my second choice would be the Traditions.

There are many creative ways to make mention of the Traditions without even reading them.

I have some sense and consideration of the type of meeting such as speaker, steps, open discussion, etc. and not to break up the flow, as well as time allowance.

I hate all the reading there is way to much hell by the time my group gets thru reading and announcing half the meeting is gone.

Being a part of the solution could ease the hate.

Peace,
Missy

[Paulie]

I agree to talk or chant or interrupt in anyway is disrespectful

REally? I dont at all. But I know people here in my fellowship who feel as you do.

I love when we all say together 'principles before personalities'

[Gmoney]

I wasn't going to throw my two cents in this thread, but here goes:

It is my understanding that each group decides, for themselves, how to conduct their meetings. This includes the decision on which readings will be read, and according to my understanding of Tradition 4, they have that right.

Groups are autonomous except matters where is effects other groups..or in this case NA as a whole. A group is autonomous as long as it follows steps and traditions.

This is true! Yet, the reading of the 12 Traditions at the start of "one" specific meeting isn't an indication that the group doesn't "follow" or adhere to the traditions. For example, some groups dedicate a specific day of each month to focus on traditions (topic & discussion), especially groups that meet more than once a week.

Don't get me wrong...I'm accustomed to having the 12 Traditions read at every meeting I attend, and it would startle or shock me to find that a group doesn't include it. I mean, I'd notice it immediately, but instead of attemping to make the group include it (not saying you are Missy), I'd ask the group's members after the meeting why they don't. For all I know, they may have a sound reason.

Originally Posted by huntsober

We did not read the traditions when I got clean. I like the fact that we do now.

I like it too, but I understand that a group doesn't have to "read" the 12 Traditions. Times change, things change. The Basic Text tells us:

'Whatever the type or format a group uses for its meetings,the function of a group is always the same; to provide a suitable and relaible environment for personal recovery and to promote such recovery."

My MAIN PROBLEM is if readings are going to be read.....no chanting or sayings should ever be said during hte readings. There is no deeper level of disrespect to our founders than to carry out this behavior. Its the lowest level of cross talk.

Although this behavior has died out over the years in my area (chanting), when I was new I found it enjoyable and a great way for everyone to get involved. The fellowship drilled home for me that "alcohol is a drug" by chanting along with the reader.

[Missybuns]

I don't mind if people join in to say the same words in the reading as a group. Is that what you are considering chanting?

We often join in to all say the Tradition 12.

and what I meant by talking during readings is people talking amongst themselves whispering etc.

the reading of the 12 Traditions at the start of "one" specific meeting isn't an indication that the group doesn't "follow" or adhere to the traditions.

Which is a big reason I didn't feel the need to address it with the home group. The new comer was more important. I could tell by some of the sharing there are members who were at this particular meeting who have an understanding of the Steps and Traditions.

[Gmoney]

I don't mind if people join in to say the same words in the reading as a group. Is that what you are considering chanting?

Yep.

I think we'd all agree that loud side conversations during the readings is disrespectful, distracting and annoying.

[LowBottom]

I agree the

if readings are going to be read.....no chanting or sayings should ever be said during the readings.

May be a few but not with every friggin paragragh - I think it makes them silly instead of the foundation and serious but... i am just me and thank goodness there are no leaders : )

I am always late b/c my being online is sporadic at best but... I enjoy the topic sometimes it takes a while to let go and let god

[Missybuns]

I have the same sentiment on not saying every word of every paragraph.
When the group joins in for one or two sentences that doesn't seem to bother me.

I do see the looks on some of the faces of the people who didn't know a group thing was about to happen. Some look as though they may feel awkward or even left out. That's the concern I do have about the group suddenly joining in.

and this is veering off topic.....so be it

Ok...........so what is it called when people do the inserted words like "Boing" "rip" or "splash" ? I seem to recall there is a special word for that...but don't remember what it is. That kind of interjection...what's the word?

[Paulie]

Ok...........so what is it called when people do the inserted words like "Boing" "rip" or "splash" ? I seem to recall there is a special word for that...but don't remember what it is. That kind of interjection...what's the word?

I dont know, and when do they do that? At meetings, during what reading? Never heard it before.

[huntsober]

It comes after ..."springs from our traditions" "tears us apart"..."all will be well"...ITs all disrespectful. IMO

[Sugah]

Originally Posted by Missybuns

Ok...........so what is it called when people do the inserted words like "Boing" "rip" or "splash" ? I seem to recall there is a special word for that...but don't remember what it is. That kind of interjection...what's the word?

Onomatopoeia?

[Gmoney]

Boing? Rip? Splash?

Yeah...that's too much for me. We've never done that in my area. I agree with Joe.

[Paulie]

Oh (can you see the lightbulb on top of my head LOL)...Boing, rip, splash.......I get it.
I have never even heard of a meeting to that. Kinda silly IMO.

Let's see it is pretty common for a group in my area, well my home group says...'period', after 'alcohol is a drug'. And sometimes when JFT is read, before every sentence some people say 'Tell yourself'. Those are the most common I can think of. And of course 'principles before personalites'.

But

[Sugah]

Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer (reindeer)
Had a very shiny nose (like a lightbulb!)....



Peace & Love,
Sugah

[Sugah]

Originally Posted by Sugah

Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer (reindeer)
Had a very shiny nose (like a lightbulb!)....



Peace & Love,
Sugah

(I think I screwed that up...but that's what it reminds me of...)

[Missybuns]

yeah..i agree that's disrespectful. Some were doing it in my area up until about three years ago. And it is during the Traditions!! aaarrghhh! (slaps my forehead right on my pretend Traditions flag tattoo!)

One particular person started crying like a baby saying "waaaaaa!" after the part "gave birth to the Traditions"

This was so irritating. Thus began some of my first interest and understanding of the Traditions. I started asking people with double-digit recovery time about this behavior and learned why they weren't doing it. I was most informed "I feel it is disrespectful and you won't find me doing it."

I could see their point, so I modeled after those mentors.

[Paulie]

One particular person started crying like a baby saying "waaaaaa!" after the part "gave birth to the Traditions"

Ridiculous!!!

Sugah!!!!!

[Missybuns]

I remember being at regional convention and seeing a shirt with "Boing Rip Splash" printed on the back...didn't see them for sale in the merchandise area but saw someone wearing one....yep some were actually making shirts like this and most likely selling them!