Relapse is NOT a part of recovery

[Paulie]

IMO relapse is NOT a part of recovery. I have heard that alot lately. If you come into the rooms and at some point you make the choice to use/relaspe, that then becomes a part of your story, of your recovery story/path/journey/life whatever you call it.

But when people say that 'relapse is a part of a recovery' ......I just dont get that. If someone would have told me that when I got to the rooms, I know my little addict mind, I could have used that as an excuse to use.....'well hey, it is a part of recovery, what the heck'......that is what my little justifying mind would have said.

And the words relapse vs slip....what is that about? If you pick and and use it is a relapse, you can try and soften it if you want and call if a slip, but the meaning is the same. Be honest and grateful that you made it back to share your relapse experience with others.

I have no idea why I wanted to share that today, I think I have said the same thing in a thread sometime over the past few years around here. It just seems to come in waves where I live.

OH MY GOD, was this smiley created for addicts or what (okay maybe for me)

[tommyk]

I agree 100%.

I share on this topic occasionally, because while each of us can indeed have a 'relapse', there is no guarantee that each of us will come back to recovery. Death has a way of getting in the way.

For myself and my sponsees there is no such thing as a 'relapse' per say... there is simply a 'conscious and willing choice to drink/use'.

No 'slips', no 'falls', no 'relapse'... each situation is a 'conscious and willing choice to drink/use'.

Just my opinion.

[serenityqueen]

I agree about using the word "slip." The person didn't just all of a sudden fall down. A slip, in my opinion happens on the ice, snow or a wet surface when things are going along just fine and suddenly, wham!

I've been to Meetings or in my IOP group I'd hear people say,"I've been clean and sober for 3 years today . . . well, I did have a couple of slips in there though." I'm sorry, the alcohol just didn't suddenly slide down your throat, the pills didn't jump out of a bottle into your mouth nor did the pipe light itself and go into your mouth.

I tend to call them relapses. When someone has Cancer for example and they come out of remission it's a relaspse of the disease, right? Meaning all the signs, symptoms of the disease are back. When someone relapses, picking up is only a small part of the relapse. . . it's the last phase as well. Before picking up, the old stinking thinking, negative thoughts and behaviors return and then the actual using.

That's just my opinion on things! Good topic, Paulie!

Judy

[Gmoney]

I agree, too, Paulie.

And, yes...we've had several threads here at SR where we have talked about this topic. Using is using. Relapse is never by accident, so the term "slip" is just BS to make the relapse sound like it wasn't that bad - to minimize or justify. In NA we don't use the term slip. We dig deeper than that surface crap.

Yeah...relapse can/and does happen. But NA teaches us that recovery stops before the relapse, so how in the heck can relapse be a part of recovery? Relapse is a "part" of active addiction and that surely isn't recovery.

[Paulie]

In NA we don't use the term slip.

It has been used alot in my fellowship lately. And as the topic states....that 'relapse is a part of recovery'.

And I think what happens, at least in my area, is a couple new people come in and they start saying it at meetings, and then other new people come in and pretty soon I am hearing something on that subject at every meeting I am going to....which is what happened in the past few weeks.

A slip, in my opinion happens on the ice, snow or a wet surface when things are going along just fine and suddenly, wham!

Exactly.

And one more thing....cross talk, wtf is up with that? It is at every meeting I went to in the past few weeks, I mean disruptive crosstalk. If a woman I sponsor does it I will explain to her in private why we dont do that.
I got together with a woman yesterday who is part of my homegroup. We re-wrote the 'introduction' for lack of a better word (the stuff read at the meeting by the secretary). We included a sentence about refraining from crosstalk. I will take this to the business meeting on Tuesday and present it to the group for a vote......

Am I just becoming an "NA stick in the mud" or does this stuff bother other people too?

[Sugah]

I've known a number of people who've gone back out after a period of abstinence, find defeat, define a bottom, and return with willingness that wasn't before present -- by their admission, not my inventory. Was the relapse "part" of their recovery? As a prelude, sure. As an interlude? Nope, don't by that. I have yet to speak to one person who has maintained that he or she worked a consistent and committed program of recovery right up to the point of picking up. I've spoken to many who express the reservations they had in what recovery work they were doing, and I've heard others speak of trying to "get it by ass-mosis" (sit in a chair, hope something sinks in), but not one single person has ever said to me, "I picked up while I was on solid spiritual footing."

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[Freedom1990]

I think the phrase 'relapse is a part of recovery' starting coming out of rehabs/treatments centers years ago. At least that's been my personal experience with it.

For me, I didn't 'slip' after 4 years. I made the conscious choice to use again. End of story.

[Paulie]

For me, I didn't 'slip' after 4 years. I made the conscious choice to use again. End of story.

Glad you made it back Freedom!!!!!!!!!!!

[Missybuns]

Using is part of addiction NOT recovery. Relapse happens in thinking....using happens when dope is picked up and ya get it in ya.



Paulie we get that here in waves, too.

Am I just becoming an "NA stick in the mud" or does this stuff bother other people too?

Yes. And my best friend in recovery teases me and calls me the "recovery police" LOL

uh oh....I feel the traditions brewing!


P.S.
oh and I don't know if anyone notices but I don't put "IMO" very much....I don't type or speak that way. I figure if I'm saying it you know it's my opinion, after all it is me saying it. If it's been written somewhere I don't plagiarize and I will site the source.

[Paulie]

Yes. And my best friend in recovery teases me and calls me the "recovery police" LOL

Yes, I am an NA stick in the mud...or yes it bothers you? Kidding, I know what you mean.

But IMO....I use that all the time

[Freedom1990]

Originally Posted by Paulie

Glad you made it back Freedom!!!!!!!!!!!

Me too!

[Missybuns]

Paulie? Yes.

[rubbersoul]

I completely agree with you. If I let my mind think like that then it would be an excuse for me to drink again.

[Rob B]

I hear the same nonsense in AA.

The idea Relapse is a part of recovery is sold by the treatment industry, not all but the majority of facilities I visit tell their clients this.

Why? $$$$$$$$$$$$$

relapse is good for business. I am leary of people who claim to be "friends"of addicts and alcoholics who aren't addict or alcoholic themselves.

These days, when I hear someone say relapse is part of recovery, I say, yeah, about as much as crashing your car is part of the driving experience. It's the same illogical premise for both.

[Lily]

I have heard that before, but not recently. I agree w/ G. Relapse is a part of addiction, not recovery. Recovery is staying clean!

Cross talk. That just majorily annoys me! I think is rude. With the acception of someones first meeting. There is a gal in our meetings who does it constantly....She asks questions while someone is sharing then if someone looks at her she quick covers her mouth and says Oops! It drives me nuts! I think is shows immaturity, rudeness and a lack of self control! nuff said. haha

[Zencat]

Absolutely...relapse is in not a part of recovery. It is an reality for some in recovery. A relapse can be a time for one to take a deep look into their addiction treatment program and make the necessary changes that will bring about a better outcome in recovery.

[Paulie]

I am leary of people who claim to be "friends"of addicts and alcoholics who aren't addict or alcoholic themselves.

What does this mean Rob?

[kj3880]

Yep, crosstalk is not the NA way, IMO. I do understand if it is someone's first meeting, because they don't know any better. And it is so important not to jump down their throats if they are just ignorant of our ways. Better to quietly ask them to "keep the sharing on you and your own experience."

I once saw a woman sharing that she was kicking, and was really ill from it. A man right out of a treatment facility (that day!) then raised his hand and shared "you need to take immodium and tylenol, lots of rest..." At this point, about 15 people screamed "NO CROSS TALK!" He turned bright red and never came back. I hope he's OK.

Love,
KJ

[serenityqueen]

I think the "relapse is part of recovery" thing is something that was invented to verbally put arms around someone and say,"It's going to be ok. Just because you relapsed, it isn't the end of the world. Many of us have. Pick yourself up, brush yourself off and start all over again. And don't beat yourself up . . . "

I agree that some take this as a ticket to use, saying, "Well, they told me relapse is part of recovery!"

As far as cross talk. That drives me insane! I think it is so rude. How many of us never shared what's going on with us for many years for different reasons. When I was little, I felt like nothing I said was important. I know if I were sharing something at a Meeting, especially something painful and someone began talking, I'd feel like what I have to say doesn't matter. This person talking must be right, what I have to say isn't important, maybe I'm not important . . . I can only imagine how devestating this would be to especially a newcomer. I have no problem looking at the person who is talking and putting my index finger to my mouth as in saying,"shhhh" If that doesn't work, I have looked at people and just told them that we'd appreciate it if while one person was talking, we all respected them by not talking at the same time. I have been to a few Meetings where a newcomer didn't know what no crosstalking meant so I think we should be mindful if we hadn't seen the person before, if they have just gotten their 24 hour key tag/token, then an explanation should be given before 15 people yell "No crosstalking!"

Thanks for letting me share,
Judy

[Rob B]

Originally Posted by Paulie

What does this mean Rob?

It means a lot of people who pretend to be our friends aren't. These are people who get very rich selling lies to folks who are desperately seeking a solution and are willing to buy anything. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this. This kind of conversation can derail a thread pretty quick. Lord knows I have a very strong opinion about this.

[tiburon88]

Relapse IS part of recovery. If one believes that Alcoholism/Drug Addiction is a disease then one needs to believe that relapse is fairly common. Relapse is one feature of chronic diseases.


tib

[kj3880]

It hasn't been a part of my recovery, Tib. and as you say in your post, relapse is one feature of chronic disease. Right! One feature of disease, not one feature of recovery. We don't have to ever use again!
KJ

[Gmoney]

Originally Posted by tiburon88

Relapse IS part of recovery. If one believes that Alcoholism/Drug Addiction is a disease then one needs to believe that relapse is fairly common. Relapse is one feature of chronic diseases.


tib

I suppose that would depend on how one defines recovery, eh? In NA, abstinence alone isn't recovery and just because one accepts that addiction is a disease doesn't mean they are working a program of recovery. In NA it is the 12 Steps that make recovery possible. Relapse may be a part of YOUR recovery program, Tib. It sure isn't a part of mine.

"Our experience reveals that working the steps is our best guarantee against relapse....The Twelve Steps are used as a program of recovery." - Basic Text, page 55

"We have never seen a person who lives the Narcotics Anonymous Program relapse...Relapse is a reality. It can and does happen. Experience shows that those who do not work our program on a daily basis may relapse...For some reason, not taking care of our personal affairs lowers our self-esteem and establishes a pattern that repeats itself in all area of our lives. If we begin to avoid our new responsibilities by missing meetings, neglecting Twelfth Step work, or not getting involved, our program stops. These are the things that lead to relapse." - Basic Text, page 76

[REZ]

Relapse is part of the disease process, not part of recovery.

If a diabetic stopped taking their medicine and ate too much sugar, we would not say that this relapse was part of their treatment, even though we would acknowledge that diabetics often relapse.

[Paulie]

I got ya Rob....just misunderstood the sentence.

As I said in the beginning....if a person has relapsed and if they are lucky enough to make it back alive, it becomes a part of their story. Just my little ol' opinion