Calling all sponsors....I need your imput!

[ANGELINA243]

Here is my dilemma--I am at the 10 month mark as of tomorrow ..technically speaking anyway. My sponsor had a chat with me briefly today--we both went to a treatment center today to bring the NA message. I have worked the 12 steps and have started working the traditions...I was just starting tradition 2...waiting for my sponsor to give me the worksheets....

Anyway--cut to the chase here...I am still very shy when it comes to public speaking..I work well one-on-one but for some reason I get anxiety when it comes to speaking in front of others. Well, my sponsor apparently had a talk with her sponsor about my situation..and how I am not currently sponsoring anyone. (I have given my number out but either no one calls or they call one time and I never hear from them again. )

My sponsor's sponsor told my sponsor to tell me that I need to start over at step 1....that by working the 12 steps I should be farther along that what I am--I guess more outgoing, sociable etc...dunno. I was hurt and felt like a complete failure. I am trying--I do service work in other ways..giving people rides to/from meeting, talking to newcomer, setting up chairs/making coffee before meeting..I do what I feel I am capable of doing..and really try to make myself available wherever needed.

I told her I might as well go and use if I have to start over....from scratch. I feel I have come a long way---have never made it through the steps before. This is my very first time working the NA program...I have tried other fellowships before..but didn't make it very far--maybe I just wasn't ready then. I was so angry, hurt, felt like our trust was somehow broken--I cried throughout the entire meeting at the treatment center...but tried not to let others see--I want to be a positive role model for the newcomer. My sponsor got in my face today--which she has never done before...never talked to me in that tone of voice.either..I guess she feels embarrassed by me...she did say that I am her first and only sponsee who she has successfully taken through the steps. Maybe that has some to do with it. But for her sponsor to tell her that..it just isn't right--I don't think...I have no idea who her sponsor is...I don't know if she even knows who I am.

After the meeting, I did manage to go to a few different groups...both NA and AA...and brought up my situation. Both fellowships said that made no sense..that I shouldn't be forcing my will upon others.....God will bring the person to me when the time is right...I am so confused. I did briefly think about using today--at 10 months sober--cause I felt that maybe I did someting wrong....like I let my sponsor down. It has been suggested that I might have to find another sponsor...by numerous people in both fellowships...but I don't want to run. Yet--I don't want to drink/drug either. :sorry

[Lily]

Well, this is TOTALLY my opinion, oh, and I am not a sponsor.....but here goes:

For one, we cannot MAKE anyone want to be our sponsees. We cannot change people, places or things. Maybe they don't want a sponsor with only 10 months clean. (I have 10 1/2 months too btw and I am not sponsoring anyone and am only one step 6)

For another, I do not think she should have been talking about you to others.

Finally, she cannot force you to change who you are. If you are shy, then that is your personality. I am very outgoing and have always been. I could never be shy. My husband has always been shy and could probably never be outgoing.

I just am not agreeing w/ her. I am kind of bothered by it. However, having said that, don't say dumb things to her like you are gonna relapse, cuz you cannot change her. Just tell her how you feel and ask her to pray about it. if it isn't working, you can always find a new sponsor.

hang in there Angelina! You are doing AWESOME! Sheila

[Rowan]

Ang, I think you are terrific. From what I know of you here, you are always sharing from the heart, and encouraging others. Not all of us make good sponsors. It sounds like you are active in service and if you were my sponsee, that would be just fine.

I don't understand why she would have you start over at Step 1. Did she elaborate as to what she meant by you should be 'further along'? Step 1 is about powerlessness and unmanageability - do you feel that this is something you need to revisit today?

I give out my number a lot - and don't often get calls. That's okay. I'm like you - I give rides, make coffee, set up/tear down, etc. I am finally comfortable speaking in front of a crowd at a meeting, but that has taken a few years. There are all kinds of 12-Step work, and I think you are a shining example of recovery.

Don't you dare throw away 10 months of clean time!

[Sugah]

Angelina, if you've formally worked the steps, then you have them in your daily life. Each time I "finished" a step, my sponsor would tell me that--there, you have another to use. Use it.

I don't mean to rant, but I know it's going to sound like a rant. I just don't understand some of the things I hear on these boards regarding ego-driven sponsors. It's implied that you haven't worked your steps correctly if no one's asked you to sponsor them??

I have no idea how long your sponsor has been around, or how long her sponsor has been around, but (grrr!) perhaps they skipped a step themselves. You know--the one that says "We came to believe that a power GREATER THAN OURSELVES would restore us to sanity."

Okay, rant over.

If I were in your shoes, I would tell my sponsor, "Thank you for your suggestion. I feel I took the steps to the best of my ability. I'd rather we keep our discussion on what step applies to what I'm living in my daily life." And, if she ruffles, I would say, "Thank you for your service. I'll be looking for another sponsor."

Now that's just me. I'm sorry that you're being judged in this way.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[Gmoney]

Wow.

I, too, am a bit disturbed by some of the stuff I read about sponsors on these boards. I often think, "Where in the heck did they get that from??" I never knew being a sponsor was something automatically expected of those who worked all 12 steps? If I'm not mistaken, the 12th step talks about us trying to carry the message and it tells us that this can be done numerous ways - not just through sponsorship. There are too many ways to be of service and carry the message than to get stuck on whether or not we sponsor other addicts or not. That's ridiculous. We certainly can't make anyone be our sponsees...nor should we try. And anyone who would try to measure my recovery by that gauge needs to check their own.

For those of us who have done step work, there is never really a "starting over from scratch" point. Like Sugah said, once it's in you - there it is. Sure, we can always do them again, but it's more like peeling an onion (we go deeper), not starting over.

Finally... I won't tell you what to do, but I was always told that everybody doesn't tell the same lie. I also learned that my HP tends to speak to me through people:

Both fellowships said that made no sense..that I shouldn't be forcing my will upon others.....God will bring the person to me when the time is right...

Sounds to me like God has spoken.

[Missybuns]

if it makes ya feel any better....I didnt feel I was ready to sponsor anyone at 1o months clean.

I looked for someone with more than a year clean when I looked for a sponsor.

That's just me.

I did move on from two particular sponsors that became controlling and judgmental.

I have a sponsor today who doesnt insult me when I dont jump right on her suggestions.

Sounds like an ego thing...some sort of score card to add to by having sponsees?...that's not too healthy in my opinion.

It's not all that unusual to move on to new sponsors once we grow on.

I plan to do the steps over and over...learning new things about myself as I grow.


Angelina it wont be you that's in danger of using if you have the desire not to.

I have a list of questions I used like an interview in my search for a sponsor. After having to change sponsors a number of times early on I got help from an addictions counselor who is also a 12 stepper with 15 years clean and in recovery. When I utilized the list of questions I found a sponsor who I foresee having until one of us dies. I feel sponsorship is important. My recovery is a matter of life and death to me.

If you'd like me to share the list with you I'd be happy to. There are 8 questions.

Peace,
Missybuns

[ANGELINA243]

That would be great Missybuns--I'm curious to hear those 8 questions. Feel free to post them here or send me a PM.

Thanks to all who have responded--I really appreciate your imput.

[Missybuns]

I walk up to them and say
"I am looking for a sponsor and I have some questions I'd like to ask you"

1. Have you worked the 12 steps?
2. How long did it take you?
3. How much recovery time do you have?
4. How many people have you sponsored in the past?
(how many of those made it successfully through all the steps?)
5. What would it take for you to drop a sponsee?
6. What is your perception of sponsorship?
7. Do you have a sponsor?
8. Would you be available 24/7?

There are more than one reason to ask any of these questions.

You can do what ever you like with the answers.
Asking these questions shows your interest and dedication in your recovery.

[ANGELINA243]

Thanks--I'll write this down for future use.

I know this answer probably will be answered by the next sponsor--should I decide to get a different one..but in this type situation under these circumstances....would I repeat Steps 1-12 (as in same info for inventory..amends etc) if I have already discussed it with a previous sponsor? I made all family amends on my list for instance--would I go and say the same thing to them again?....or would the Steps this time be for stuff that has happened since I last worked them?

[Missybuns]

if you feel in your heart what you have done is to the best of your ability...then the next time around will also be to the best of your ability. Ya just dont know what your inventory will reveal next time around.

Yes your next sponsor will help you with that. Remember too, that it is your program and your recovery. It's up to your higher power to reveal to you only what you are ready for. Your step work has taught you to pray for the will of your higher power.

There is no neutral in recovery...only forward and reverse. Keep moving forward and you will be OK.

Peace,
Missy

[2ala2]

Hello Angelina,
Congratulations on your 10 months! a great accomplishment, have no doubt about that!
Here's what I think:
No one knows you like your sponsor, someone who interacts with you face to face and knows details about you beyond what is read on a computer screen. I believe this to be terribly important.
Not all suggestions in the program will be to our liking. If we trust our sponsor then we will trust their judgement. If you don't trust them then you should ask yourself why are they your sponsor?
PS. In my experience, many, many people take my number. most of them NEVER call. I don't think you should rush to get a sponsee. They will cross your path at the right time.

[Paulie]

Ditto to 2ala2

4. How many people have you sponsored in the past?
(how many of those made it successfully through all the steps?)

hmm, please do not take offense but as someone who has sponsored many women over the years I have learned it is not a reflection on me if my sponsee does not work her steps. We all work our own program.

Congrats on your 10 months Angelina....GREAT JOB. Maybe it is just as simple as it is time to move on, maybe the lesson here is to trust your sponsor. Ask your HP for some help. But do not forget to give yourself credit for 10 months clean....you did that, not your sponsor.

[AphroditeLite]

Hey Angelina,

Congratulations on your recovery program.

I was really struck by what you said about feeling that you might as well go out and use if you have to start over from scratch. I let that same idea get into my head while I was looking for a new sponsor- I'd only finished the 3rd step- and I regret so deeply that I used. I'm coming to terms with my relapse, and I know a lot of factors played a part, but I do think that thought was the foundation for my screwed-up rationale that led me to pick up. It was not worth it, I can tell you.

I know your feelings are hurt by what your sponsor said, but I wonder if a heart-to-heart talk can help the situation. It seems that you have some questions about WHY she suggested this. I would think it would be better to get a clear answer from her rather than trying to fill in the blanks yourself.

Best of luck to you. You have what you learned from your first time through the steps to give you strength.

[Missybuns]

Originally Posted by Paulie

hmm, please do not take offense but as someone who has sponsored many women over the years I have learned it is not a reflection on me if my sponsee does not work her steps.

No offense taken. As I said, there is more than one reason to ask any of these questions.

I dont mean to say everyone should use these questions. I used them after having specific experiences. They helped me learn about how the person would share with me.

I specifically wanted someone who had seen some one, at least one person, all the way through all 12 steps.

Peace,
Missy

[Missybuns]

I would like to add that these questions were what I used and I dont mean to say they are for everyone or anyone. I asked these questions after I had specific experiences.

They helped me learn how the person would share with me.

I specifically wanted some body who had seen some one, at least one person, all the way through all 12 steps.

As a matter of fact I think I worded it "has any one you have sponsored worked through all the steps?"

Peace,
Missy

[navysteve]

My sponsor's sponsor told my sponsor to tell me that I need to start over at step 1

Your sponsors sponsor needs to stop spreading the mess. This is why I can't go to NA meetings anymore. I have given up. Public speaking is a fear many people have. If you aren't comfortable with that, then the 12 steps probably won't help you. They are not a cure all!!!!!!!

If you have to ask your sponsors permisiion to work a step or your sponsor feels that they can knock you back then you do not have a sponsor, you have a high priestess.

As has already been said, you do not start them over ( getting knocked back, whatever!) It is a good idea to revisit them....

Frequently revisit them!!!!!

I am an addict ( also a drunk) and I found less of that crap in AA. I don't say that to stir **** up. It is just my experience. I see alot of cult-like stuff in both fellowships. I got clean to be free, not to have another recovering person tell me what step I am on. That is BS ( Barely Sensible???)

[Missybuns]

sorry for somewhat of a double post above...my edit time ran out...or so I thought.

That is BS ( Barely Sensible???)

I like that!

[tip]

Hello Angelina, my name is Tip and I'm an addict. that's how I got started sharing in meetings. Now I don't know about other sponsers or how they require the steps to be worked. I've heard a lot of horror stories though and yours sounds reminescent of some of those.
I was one of those who went to the other fellowship when I first got clean, and I took the suggestions, went to 90 in 90, got a sponser and started working the steps the way i was shown. Basically, it was a read through, understand that?. good move to the next one. Well, I was NOT amazed halfway through, and at about ten months, and 12 steps, I was still wanting to choke someone.
Then the most loving person in my life at that time said something that made me stop cold. He said, "If you don't stop, you're gonna die". and he wasn't talking about the drugs.
Well, at that point I had been to some NA meetings, and even a convention, and I heard someone say, that it is possible to 'apply' these steps and learn to become happy, joyous, and free. Got me a new sponser right then. had him ever since.
Some things I was taught...1 year for the body, 2 for the mind, and 3 for the spirit. Check with your local treatment center, and you'll find that that is not just another cliche', but a physiological fact. So my sponsership family( oh yeah, I know all of them, Grand, Great Gran, GGgran and a lot of brothers, cousins and so forth) isn't in a great big hurry for you to "work it". It's more about the 'application' of the spiritual principles contained within the steps. "These Are The Principles That Make Our Recovery Possible" Basic Text, pg 17
Now we start getting into some recovery, because our literature also says " Our recovery begins when we start applying these principles to our lives. If my sponser had ot known that my life doesn't happen in a month, or ten, I would never have learned the disease affected me in all areas of my life, so I had to learn to apply the principles, such as honesty, openmindedness, and willingness, in all areas also. One step at a time. One principle at a time. Basic Text, pg 22;step 1, "we do not just say the words of this step; we learn to live them."
Basic Text, last line in Step 2, says " When our belief has grown, we are ready for Step 3." For me I had to understand a lot of things before my belief had grown that far. How did I know when it was time? It started with Hope, to Faith, to Belief and Trust. And my sponser knew when I was ready.
Basic Text, pg 26, Step 3. "We are no longer fighting fear, anger, guilt, self-pity, or depression" "The proof of this step is shown in the way we live." How and when do I know this has taken place? I have eveloped a relationship with my sponser and he knows well how i live, and when I'm ready to move on.
What Im trying to say here, is there's a lot more to the steps than just working them, and it takes time, at least for me it does. I learn one chapter at a time, by reading it, taking notes, and reviewing what I've learned, then moving on. Been clean now over 5 yrs, and beginning the process of an amends list, and the principles that are inherent to Step 8, and I believe that's exactly where God, and my sponser, believe I should be.
There's also a Step Working Guide for Narcotics Anonymous that we are required to work also. A lot of writing, and a lot of soul searching and self honesty to work that book. It's companion is It Works, How and Why, which is a deeper look into the Steps and the Traditions. I work out of all three books in order to complete a Step or a Tradition.
And I have sponsered and continue to sponser a few guys who are doing the same thing. But, the only requirement my sponser held me to was I had to have at least 2 years, and had gotten at least 5 steps down first. Can't carry a message if I'm still carrying that mess. Remember also, 2 yrs for the mind. Didn't want a sick mind helping a sick mind.
And remember, "Take it easy, We didn't get here in a day"
I was also told that if I didn't have the best sponser in the world, go find another sponser. In the meantime, "Don't use, no matter what"!!!
Oh yeah, the remark about maybe just as well go use? I got one of those families who someone would have thrown a twenty on the floor, and said when you get enough, we'll be here waiting on you. No victims here today, only volunteers. And then they would have laughed and hugged me, took me out to eat, and had a stern talking to about reservations and expectations.

[ANGELINA243]

Originally Posted by tip

Some things I was taught...1 year for the body, 2 for the mind, and 3 for the spirit.

I don't know if I have ever heard this before...but I kinda like it. Seems to make sense to me.

Originally Posted by tip

Basic Text, pg 22;step 1, "we do not just say the words of this step; we learn to live them."


Basic Text, pg 26, Step 3. "We are no longer fighting fear, anger, guilt, self-pity, or depression" "The proof of this step is shown in the way we live."

What Im trying to say here, is there's a lot more to the steps than just working them, and it takes time, at least for me it does. I learn one chapter at a time, by reading it, taking notes, and reviewing what I've learned, then moving on.

There's also a Step Working Guide for Narcotics Anonymous that we are required to work also.....It's companion is It Works, How and Why...

Yes, I too used all 3 books to work the steps.

Originally Posted by tip

Can't carry a message if I'm still carrying that mess.... Didn't want a sick mind helping a sick mind.

I hear you on that one!

Originally Posted by tip

Oh yeah, the remark about maybe just as well go use? I got one of those families who someone would have thrown a twenty on the floor, and said when you get enough, we'll be here waiting on you. No victims here today, only volunteers. And then they would have laughed and hugged me, took me out to eat, and had a stern talking to about reservations and expectations.

I've heard of that happening to people in the program before...

I did find a lot of truth in your post--not just what I posted--I just picked out a few comments to respond to here. Thanks for sharing your ESH with me..it means alot!

[ANGELINA243]

I did speak to my sponsor this morning. She did apologize for her behavior/actions. She said she was just trying to get me more involved in carrying the message. Apparently her sponsor treated her similarly (same type scenario) when she was having some trouble speaking in meetings...etc. but for some reason--from that point forward she was able to change. She was hoping something similar might happen for me--but it apparently backfired. She did say that we could continue working on the traditions....but the "meat" of the program is in the steps. I don't have to work steps 1-12 as they apply to drugs....but she thought I could work them again in hopes of finding out more about who I am>finding more about Angelina. Does that make any sense? It made sense this morning when she explained it to me...but now I am wondering whether or not this is necessary. I hope to grow in the program...NA saved my life.

[Paulie]

I don't have to work steps 1-12 as they apply to drugs....but she thought I could work them again in hopes of finding out more about who I am>finding more about Angelina. Does that make any sense?

That makes perfect sense. And that is what the picture in your signature means....Recovery changes all things, meaning about us as people. Each time we work the steps we learn and grow.

Keep doing what you are doing, you are doing GREAT.

[REZ]

Only the first step has to do with drugs, and it doesn't actually mention drugs; it only says "addiction."
All of the steps have to deal with healing and growing, physically, mentally, and spiritually. I have been clean for 24+ years and I have worked the steps many times. The steps are not really something you work at and then finish anyway. They are more like principles that you try to apply to your life. What I really do with the steps is practice the steps, not work them.

[Paulie]

The steps are not really something you work at and then finish anyway. They are more like principles that you try to apply to your life. What I really do with the steps is practice the steps, not work them.

Well said REZ

[Gmoney]

...I could work them again in hopes of finding out more about who I am>finding more about Angelina. Does that make any sense?

It sure does!! As I mentioned previously, we never really start over but we keep "working" by peeling back the layers of "the onion" to get to the core of who we really are. It's also about growing into the people we need to be and want to be. And whether you prefer to use the term "work" or "practice", recovery is about action - putting in effort. Like Missy said, there's no neutral in recovery: either I'm progressing or I'm regressing. And as Steve said, revisiting the steps (regularly) keeps us headed in the right direction.

"The progression of recovery is a continuous, uphill journey. Without effort we start the downhill run again. The progression of the disease is an ongoing process, even during abstinence." - BT, p. 79

We don't graduate or reach a final destination. We travel this journey...putting in the effort to learn and grow as we go.

[kj3880]

Ang, I'm not a sponsor, but I did have a similar problem with my ex-sponsor. We were getting on together just fine until she had a talk with her sponsor about me (I was her first and only sponsee) and told her about my situation. My situation was that I couldn't make meetings every day, work shift work, and am a single parent. So I have some time limits and have to work around them.

She told all that to her sponsor and her over-zealous sponsor came back with "tell her that she will get high if she doesn't do 90 in 90" Which I never did, nor will I probably ever, unless my life changes a lot. However I am still clean at 8 months and counting, so whatever. Her sponsor also had her bully me about "consistently attending home group so she can do her service every week."

Well that isn't realistic when you are on a different shift every week. I just do the best I can. Life on life's terms. This mess almost made me quit my home group and it did make me get rid of that sponsor.

I don't want a sponsor who is so un-self-confident that she is running to someone else about me all the time. I understand if something drastic had happened, like I had used, that she might have had to share her feelings about that with her sponsor, but not the subject of how many meetings I should go to a week.

We can't work someone else's program. Sponsors are here to help us through the steps. Not to babysit us, lend or borrow money, talk about us, run our lives, or monitor our dating habits. I'm a grown woman and I don't want someone to tell me how to raise my kids or work my career.

Anyway, I'm very shy too. I can't even talk well one to one sometimes. Don't worry about it. Just do you. We all have different gifts. I can tell you that in my area nobody ever sponsors anyone until they have at least a year clean, usually 3 years.

Love
KJ