Identification

[Greit]

Ok, so I'm new here and don't really have enough experience to understand the culture of the group, but so far... on many posts I have read..there is a lot of Sober and Big Book Talk on this here "NA forum". What's up with that?

I just need to know the "rules" so I can know what to expect.

The little hairs on the back of my neck keep standing up.

[Gmoney]

Hey Greit,

Wassup?

Sure, this is the NA Forum, and for me it is a sanctuary from all the crazy stuff that gets shared from time to time on the internet. But as far as I know, there is no "clarity statement" for this forum and all are welcomed. The only guidelines I know of are written on the site:

12 step based recovery forum-(NA)- for support and suggestions from other addicts to help the addict that still suffers. If you are recovering or still in active addiction you are welcome here.

If you're referring to the remarks I made on another thread (The 3 Basic Rules of Sponsorship), I was confused because I didn't know whether it was a declaration or a suggestion. LOL!! I wasn't picking fun at the terms used, but I did find it funny that you did. I still want to know who "for you" is????

Here's some food for thought - you can consider it, or ignore it - Seeing that this is an NA forum and NA uses the NA Basic Text (and not the AA Big Book) it may be appropriate when talking about the NA program to refer to things that are NA based. If you'd notice, there are numerous members here at SR that attend both AA and NA, and when they share their experiences they talk about what works for them - not telling others what they should or shouldn't do. This way, they don't come off as preachy and everyone has the right to identify themselves as they wish. Then again...there are times when one or two will just plain disregard that this isn't the AA forum. I personally think it's disrespectful. I certainly wouldn't go into the AA forum and declare alcoholics should work the NA program.

This isn't an NA meeting, but I come here to share and receive ES&H. I'm a member of Narcotics Anonymous and I identify myself as an addict or recovering addict. I refer to myself as clean, not sober. I work the NA program as outlined in the NA Basic Text and other NA literature.

But like I said...that's what works for me.

[tommyk]

In my opinion NA includes most everything found in AA, because 'alcohol is a drug'.

(Thus making sober & big book topics valid.)

[Greit]

Groovy Toovy... just didn't know what the traditions of the group were. Now I know...can adjust compulsive behavior accordingly.

[REZ]

Our home group recently decided to begin reading an NA identity statement at the beginning of the meeting to deal with all of the confusion over terminology, "alcoholic-addict", "cross-addicted" etc.

[Gmoney]

Originally Posted by tommyk

In my opinion NA includes most everything found in AA, because 'alcohol is a drug'.

(Thus making sober & big book topics valid.)

I hear you, Tommy...and you're entitled to your opinion. Yet, I beg to differ. AA and NA are seperate and distinct in their own right. Just because NA views alcohol as a drug doesn't make AA and NA synonymous, nor does it mean that "most everything" in NA can be found in AA. I could write a very, very long list of differences (but I won't), of which the most important is that recovery from alcoholism is not addressed in NA.

I contend that just because something is valid doesn't make it appropriate. I even question the validity of the Big Book in matters regarding NA.

The links below offer food for thought:

Some thoughts regarding our relationship to Alcoholics Anonymous

What is addiction?

[Greit]

The reason AA has been successful for so long is because they are serious about their PRIMARY PURPOSE, which is "to help others recover from alcoholism". (period) If NA has a chance at that kind of longevity, people with some time under their belts, need to talk about the difference between being powerless over a disease and being powerless over a specific drug. Entirely different philosophies in my opinion.

[Lily]

Greit,

I try to refer only to NA things on this forum. I understand they are two separate programs the disease of addiction and alcoholic. Just like when I am in NA I don't talk about AA and vice versa.

Sheila

[sticker]

like Garry said its a respect thing...those that come here rather then the AA forums do so for a reason. I have deep gratitude and respect for both fellowships but they are separate, at least the way i read the traditions

[Gmoney]

I know we've discussed identification here at length in the past, but I also understand that this forum isn't an NA meeting. I don't get upset or bothered by how others identify themselves, but I do often wonder about it. I believe a lot of the language people use tends to come from their experience and exposure - like treatment centers, after-care programs, rehabs and the like - so they've learned to use the terms they use.

NA teaches us that we lead by example. I was once a newer member and I had to learn how to share the NA way. I did this by reading NA literature and attending NA meetings. By working the 12 steps of NA, I also learned that my problem was never really a specific substance, so it was a natural transition to refer to myself as an addict only and when speaking of abstinence to say clean time or recovery - not being sober or sobriety. Most of us will agree that the term sobriety is directly associated with abstinence from alcohol and AA. Since NA doesn't focus on one drug over another, the term "clean" covers all bases and enhances our unity.

In my area, almost every group reads the NA Clarity Statement at the start of each meeting. I know there are those who dislike it and think it's used to control or dictate how members share, but I contend that a suggestion of any kind is merely that... a suggestion. I find it funny how some folks can pick and choose which suggestions are harmless and say others are harmful. The suggestion of "don't use no matter what" is never referred to as controlling. I've visited other websites and read extremely long threads where people argued against the use of the clarity statement - claiming it was forcing compliance, dictating and controlling. One addict even went as far as to say it was a violation of our 12 Traditions. Funny...I never read any members having a problem with the "48 Musts."

Our 1st Tradition clearly says:

"No one can revoke our membership or make us do anything that we do not choose to do. We follow this way of life by example rather than direction."

As an oldtimer once told me, if I don't see an example...be one.

[REZ]

"People with some time under their belts, need to talk about the difference between being powerless over a disease and being powerless over a specific drug. Entirely different philosophies in my opinion."--Greit

Here's how I look at it. The reason I started coming to NA in the first place was to deal with some problems I was having with particular drugs. I began to understand that I was powerless over these drugs and that they had made my life unmanageable. But I was also using many other drugs at the time. Maybe I could handle those other drugs. Heck, there are new drugs coming out every day. Maybe I could use those drugs successfully. The problem with this type of thinking is that it wasn't just about the specific drugs. I am very confident that I would develop problems with other drugs if I used them as a substitute for the drugs that were giving me problems. I am just that kind of person: I am a drug addict. That's what it means for me to be powerless of my addiction today. I can't use any mind/mood altering drug recreationally without reverting to my addictive patterns of using and all the problems these lead to.

[Phinneas]

Good discussion, peeps.

[kmsj75]

My own experience is that I am an addict; plain and simple. Whether it be specific drugs, alcohol, Ebay, money, food...etc. For me personally, AA terminology is not broad enough. Hence, why I do NA. We have had problems with clarity within my home group, and at times I wondered which type of 12-step meeting I was in. I think this blurs our primary purpose. I lead a meeting once on World Bulletin 13, which talks about our relationship with AA. It's excellent, and I suggest you read it. I get so tired at times of some members beliefs and actions that suggest it is a competition between 12-step groups. Last week, someone shared how they had come to NA from AA, and a guy literally put his hands in the air and yelled "YES!" ugh.

[2ala2]

I, myself, have benefited from both and I still do both AA and NA meetings. Out of respect when sharing I try to be aware of 'clean' and 'sober' . I also identify myself only as an alcoholic in AA meetings and only as an addict in NA meetings. For me this is hardly an issue. Abstinence while being happy and satisfied is my deal. I still work my steps from both literatures. It works very well for me.
With regards to this forum, well, to me it's simple. I just apply what I said up there.

[tommyk]

I identify myself by saying, "Hi, my name is Tom and I'm grateful to be in recovery". Because first & foremost that is what I am - grateful to be in recovery (from alcohol use, drug use, depression, and anxiety).

I attend both fellowships - AA and NA meetings.

While I realize AA is specifically related to alcohol use, NA is related to any substance abuse (which includes alcohol - as alcohol is a drug). I do not know of any AA principles that are not contained within NA, but that just means I don't know of any (I don't know a lot of stuff).

I have found that AA differs vastly from NA, but that NA covers most everything in AA.

Both are great fellowships.

[Sugah]

I have seen willful intolerance and struggles with semantics kill people. The suggestion I make to anyone trying to get clean is to remember that words are human inventions and there's humility in the concept of 'willing to go to any length' - which, for some people in some parts, means finding respect for what's available to help them reach that goal.

Peace & Love,
Sugah
(who's a "clean addict" in NA and a "sober alcoholic" in AA)