Service Question

[Gmoney]

Hi Family,

I have a question but I need to give a little background info first.

Our region recently held their annual convention in my city. Instead of it being held in one of the locations our local usually uses, the committee that organized it decided to hold it at a very nice hotel on the outskirts of the city. The turnout wasn't anywhere close to what they anticipated and the region not only lost money on the event, but they also OWE the hotel $7,500.

Last week, at our monthly ASC, a letter from the region's officers was read, and they're requesting that everyone chip in to cover the debt. It was also mentioned that a specific regional member's name was on the contract and if the debt isn't paid, it could ruin this member financially.

Mind you, I was pleasantly pleased to have our region host their convention here, but once I found out where it was being held, I suspected that there wouldn't be much local support because it was out of range for most of our inner-city members (it wasn't on a bus route). I personally believe that they should have been a bit more cost-conscious and selective, AND they had expected too much.

I know the end result is a reflection on NA as a whole, and not just our local fellowship, and we shouldn't allow one member to get stuck footing the bill for this big mess, but how far should we go? I mean, our area struggles as it is...and even though we're fortunate to have as many groups as we have and a good sized membership...money is always a problem because EVERYTHING is an expense. Some of our more affluent members have already pledged their support, but once again:

HOW FAR DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD GO?

P.S. We believe an audit is neccessary before we devise any fundraising - a regional convention member relapsed during the planning of the event and some suspect misappropriation of NA funds.

What do you think? Comments....Concerns....

[dgillz]

Wow. We had a city wide meeting recently that came up $1000 short. We also suspect funds misappropriations based on the # of people there. This is a tough one.

I would pay what I could, personally and maybe throgh my home group, DIRECTLY to the hotel. I would also workout a repayment plan if at all possible. Then maybe have a few events if youcan to raise money to cover the shortfall.

Good luck and let us know the outcome.

[REZ]

I think the area should do what it can to help the individual deal with this $7500, such as sponsoring fund raisers or taking out a loan to pay it back. The committee made a bad decision, but let's assume they were acting in good faith and with good intentions. They were acting on behalf of the area, and the area should take responsibility. Hopefully everyone will learn from this.

[Sugah]

Garry, I have no idea what to suggest regarding this debt, how it was incurred and the potential financial harm to the member whose name was used to contract with the hotel. But I have to tell you, since I read this this morning, it's gnawed at me a little, and I'm not going to feel right until I express it.

When I first came in, I went to both fellowships, NA & AA. For a long time, I felt that perhaps I belonged more in NA than AA, as the last six years of my using had very little to do with alcohol. The longer I attended both fellowships, however, the more I noticed a few things. First, as it is in most places, there were a lot fewer bodies to carry the message. Second, there was a lot more asked of each member and a whole lot of guilt doled out to each member who couldn't fulfill the service obligations laid at his or her feet. Third, there were constant battles on the area level regarding the plans of this or that committee and the fights over money that home groups were donating to the area committee. I did not feel happy, joyous & free participating in service in NA -- in my area. So, that's the background.

After some time, I decided that if I were going to take my limited resources of time and money and place them somewhere, I had to put them where they would do the most good. I chose AA. I've had a service position of some sort since I was ten months clean & sober. I've sponsored for about the same amt of time. I've been doing jail meetings since I hit a year. In that time (almost 4 yrs), NA has been approved to go into both county jails, but they claim no bodies to go in. They do have folks who go to the nearest state prison, and that's a good thing. But the folks who are going to end up in their own communities are very often the ones they'll see at the county level. They're also the ones who might be spared a lower bottom (state prison) if the message is carried to them sooner. I've talked to my NA friends, expressed this, and all I see are shoulder shrugs. Guess they're too few to do anything about it.

Now, the subject of this thread -- the $7500. The reason it bugged me was that in my time in NA, I heard about a lot of these conventions, some held in my area. Conventions are a wonderful thing. I've heard many newcomers in AA say that witnessing the immensity of the fellowship at one of these conventions helped them to feel part of the entire fellowship and not a misfit from their hometown. But, I couldn't help wondering how many still sick & suffering could be reached with that amount of money. I have a case of Big Books & half a case of Living Sobers to take into the county jail with me tomorrow night, all purchased with members' contributions via donations to special cans placed in home groups. As Cooperation with the Professional Community/Public Information coordinator for our district, I have a couple of cases of pamphlets all hand-stamped with our website & hotline number, purchased to fill literature racks in hospitals, schools, libraries, mental health facilities and to be given to members to hand to their doctors. The CPC/PI budget is very small. Some home groups have decided to have a loose change basket passed specifically for that purpose. And never have I attended an area meeting or convention that wasn't paid for in advance with hospitality rooms stocked with member contributions of coffee, donuts, and the like. And the hotels were chosen based on the least expense to the member and the geographical location that would allow the most members to attend. What's done is done in this situation you've described, but I hope a valuable lesson has been learned and the mistake won't be repeated.

I love the fellowship of Narcotics Anonymous. It was its Helpline that was my first contact and led to my recovery. I manned that Helpline for almost three years until someone took my name off the list (probably because, "We haven't seen her at a meeting in awhile," or, as was told to me, "She goes to AA now, so she can't carry our message." -- I never muddied the message in taking those calls, for the record). I just wonder if the fellowship might not grow faster if more time & resources were spent a) carrying the message, b) encouraging folks to stay in the room instead of overloading them early on, and c) remembering that a spiritual awakening doesn't always happen in a nicer hotel room.

Sorry if my tone is bitter. I don't mean for it to be. I just think that NA would be so much the richer if in certain places they'd remember why we operate in a condition of self-imposed poverty.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[Paulie]

Ditto to REZ. Although is sounds like the committe may have made an error in judgement having the event and a more expensive place, they were acting on behalf of the area, the are should take responsibility.

[SaTiT]

Things happens for reasons. Not much has changed in a general sense.
There's opportunity in chaos.

On a personal recovery level. Some of us are willing to go to any lenght
for our recovery more than other. While $7500 might seem a lot to some,
it is relativley chump changes to others.
It's not about the money..it's give to live. And it depends where each indiviual
is at in their recovery. While i can truley relate and understand why i have
to pork out my own doe for a recovery , meeting starter kit. When my aera
is too consern about BBQ or conventions. Balance it a tough act to applied
and all of us has to work at it.

On the other hand..on a personal recovery journey somewhere in my path..
It's not like i havn't gave up $1000 all the money I've save up for my vacation.
i struggle making that decision. But there was this thing call a HP, my HP.
The lesson was trust..it's not really about the money. However I did received
$10,000 back a couple of months later. someway, somehow.

[Gmoney]

Thanks you guys...

I'm not so sure that the region was holding the event "for" our area, I mean...it was the region's convention and they could have held it anywhere within the region. Our local area gives a convention every year and we hold it downtown, within reach of everyone. I believe the point of view most local members hold is that we did what we could to support it (as we would our own), but the region misjudged the turnout. Most of the surrounding areas didn't make it, or were barely represented. Almost all of the hotel rooms that were designated for us went unused and registrations were purchased in minimal numbers. All in all...they made a major boo-boo. I'm sure we'll come up with ways to help as much as we can...but like you said, a major lesson was learned from this.

Sugah...

I hear you and I can imagine how frustrating it must have been for you. Some of the things you mentioned have happened here as well, but over all the job gets done in my area come rain or shine. I've always heard that subcommittees stay in need of support and we can never get enough people involved. I guess that's a mainstay in a smaller fellowship (as compared to AA) and what I've seen in my area is that the ones who are committed the most get burned out because very few step up to the plate. AA is at least 10 times larger than NA in my city, and I'm told that's the norm around the country. If that's the case, it can be expected that NA can't afford to do the things that AA does (as far as manpower, financial contributions & fullfiling their primary purpose). I'm inclined to believe there are numerous other factors I won't get into right now, but I know what you mean. I think we agree that financial committments shoudln't be made based on an expectation or for show. If you don't have it - don't do it. It has always been my view that the foundation and strength of any fellowship lies in the groups. Sometimes we disguise conventions as a "celebration of recovery" when they are nothing more than a tool used to generate funds (mind you, much needed funds). We can celebrate recovery everyday without elaborate functions and learn to use whatever resources we have more wisely.

Then again...what do I know?

[SaTiT]

Come on now, Garry.
Why do you think the old timers laguh at me when they hear i made plans.lol
You heard the joke about an addict making plans.

The region did that best they could and they sure didn't have crystal ball.
if they didn't do anything or held a convention...somebody would complain
about that too. Or they debate about having a convention until the sky
truns pink ,someone would complain about that too.

Every SSR that serve on that commitee..automaticly it's two weekends
every months. That's just to attend the Region and then the Area's bussiness
meetings. And those bussiness meetings takes almost all day.
Mostly if you're serving on a board, you're probably serving on the group
level as will. if you serve on a committee, will you can't just wing it.
You gotta study the 12 guildlines and 12 concepts (text book).
Then if you have to do more foot work. Will gee whizz.
Then you gotta hear people bitch and complain about it all the time.
but when there's service works or possitions that needs to get fill. there's
shortage people steping up to the plate, but never a shortage of complaints.

So what do you do ?..go home and pray like hell sometimes.

i don't know..i notice it's bascially the same people that do service work.
And that's would around the same percentage of people that make it
in recovery or stay in recovery for a lenght of time.

[Gmoney]

I agree with some of what you've said, and basically, it's the same things I already mentioned. But the joke about an addict making plans? I haven't heard that one yet. Do you mean:

"If you want to make God laugh...tell him what your plans are."

I see that phrase as one that applies to anyone, not just addicts.

And, of course, none of us can see into the future (i.e., a crystal ball), but we can make rational and logical decisions based on experience. Did they consider the newer members that don't have cars when they chose a location that's not on a bus route? Didn't they get a clue as to what might happen when they saw that pre-registrations were almost non-existent? Didn't they wonder what might happen when half of their speakers cancelled months in advance? I could go on listing things that could have shown them that the turnout would be low, but if you want to defend their decision making ability...go right ahead.

Also, I'm well aware of many of the things that those who dedicate themselves to service go through. I'm one of them. Steps, Traditions, Concepts, TWIGS, Robert's Rules of Order, etc... all have to be learned and studied. I'm also aware that there's always going to be people who'll sit around and whine as opposed to getting involved. Did you ever hear the one about, "If you're not a part of the solution...you're part of the problem?" I've been involved in service since I've got clean (on some level) and I'll continue as long as I'm driven. Yet, that doesn't mean I have to act as if I'm stupid and keep my mouth shut when I see a problem.

Most importantly, when you're asking me to shell out my hard earned cash for a mistake you made that could've been avoided...expect to hear my point of view and don't give me your crap about "I did the best I could!"

That's debatable. And it certainly isn't for someone on the outside to call. For all you know, SaTiT, they could have been advised NOT to do it and went ahead anyway.

Here's another qoute for you, straight from the Basic Text, "If it's not spiritual, it's not practical."

Thanks again.

[SaTiT]

Like i said,,i thought it through and through before handing over some hard
earned cash.
NA makes no promises to anyone.lol
But it's through NA that I learned how to live.

Life's not fair..The last damn thing i worried or loose sleep over is about
NA goofing off. i don't really know what the freaken solution is when your children
dies. Acceptence is a son of a Bitch.

[Gmoney]

Agreed.

[SaTiT]

There's actaully a simple logic why i would give up my hard earn cash
or go to any length for my recovery. I think it through and through

After all, when i hit bottom , I did lose everything.
Mentally, physically and spiritaully bankrupt...and of course finacially.

if it wasn't for the rooms of NA or AA..bascailly i wound had been dead.
I was sleeping in my car, all doors closed.

So when i say " by the grace of God there go I"
Do i really mean it or is it something that I just blurr out.
Recovery had given me back so much more than I can ever imagine.

it gets even more simple when i take a long hard look at myself
and the things that i did. mmm..a lot more than $10,000 went up my nose.
i didn't bitch or complain about the money when i was using on drugs or alcohol,
and i drove all over the damn county looking for dope, night after night.
so why would i bitch and complain about money or service work now that I'm clean and sober. i have moments of fustrations becuase i'm human, but deep inside
of me there is Truth.

it's not about the money. No amount of money can bring me peace nor keep
me clean and sober.

Some how I just have to trust in that process. There is a reason why I'm still
alive, after all i did tried to committe suicide already too.
if it's not grace, then i don't know what is..becuase i had my plans.

[Gmoney]

Like I said, I hear ya... and I think we're on the same team. We're just saying the same thing differently (I think).

Going to "any length" is something I also was taught about in early recovery, and I still believe in it today. Yet, going to any length doesn't mean I have to fork over my money every time a mistake is made or every time someone asks for it. Like you said, SaTiT, it takes rational and logical thinking to make rational decisions. Not to brag or boast, but I could pay the debt out of my pocket...and would... if it were a matter of keeping my recovery or growing spiritually. Thankfully it isn't. Part of being in recovery, for me, is keeping MY priorities straight and being accountable and responsible to (and for) things specific to my life. Although I will assist in raising funds to pay this debt (and donate to the cause), I could do nothing at all and doubt very seriously if my recovery would be affected.

The reason I said we could start a new thread is because we're turning a corner here. But since you shared some of your experience and views, let me share with you some of mine.

Bottom for me didn't include becoming homeless... I didn't lose everything. Although I also became bankrupt threefold, my story is specific to me. I lost my job, and that was a major blow, but I still had things of monetary worth. Does that make me special or better than those that did become financially bankrupt? Nope...just different, and different is rarely better. Thank God for diversity!! I'm sure you know that everyone's story isn't the same, but we all reach a point of desperation that drives us to seek recovery. That point of desperation differs from addict to addict.

I, too, went to great lengths to feed my addiction. I did many things I swore I'd never do and I also spent massive amounts of time and money. In active addiction I was out of control and couldn't think rationally. Today I'm not. So I try not to compare the lengths I went to in active addiction to the lengths I go to in recovery. Just because I spent a lot of money using doesn't mean I have to spend a lot of money on NA. Yet, something does stand out for me that applies to both: there were things that I just couldn't & wouldn't do while using and there's things I can't & won't do while recovering. Maybe you're familiar with the qoute in the literature that says some of us went to greater extremes than others? The point I'm making is that I can only do what I can, and I have to leave the results up to my HP. Recovery, for me, doesn't mean I have to make my own life unmanageable to help others. I give back to the best of MY ability and service covers a very, very broad area.

I also trust in the process and the program. It's the fellowship that I have to sometimes question. Why? Because we're human and prone to make mistakes. It says that in the literature too. Money never made me happy before and it doesn't make me happy now. My serenity comes from surrender, acceptance and humility. And, for me, humility is staying truthful with myself. The truth is that alone I can't, but together WE can.

Oh yeah...doesn't the 7th tradition say something about no addict giving more than their fair share? Don't I decide what that fair share is?

I think so.

[SaTiT]

I agree with you Garry. it's not about the money or being right or wrong.
There's no pleges to sign in NA.

and it so many words, it bascially say the samething.
" I don't put myself in the posistion to get hurt"