Am very Confused, Help Please?

[Cathy31]

Hope some of you can help!

I'm doing well in my recovery - I still struggle with self will, but I'm about 16 months clean and sober - no drug or alcohol whatsoever and I'm looking forward to getting my 18 month chip and to getting better each day.

This is my problem - I am going to Amsterdam in 2 weeks time with an old friend - we never drank together so that is cool. For those of you that know Amsterdam (and I think I know the answer to my question, but I wanna put it out there anyway) dope/weed/marijuana is legal.

I was never one for drugs, alcohol was always my DOC. I could always take or leave drugs...which makes me lean towards thinking that I could easily have a joint with my friend, it might be quite nice just to 'escape' for a bit and I am 100% CERTAIN that I am powerless over alcohol so that is not in question...

My question is :

1) If I had a joint - would that be the end of my clean time??
2) Dope is really not my doc, my sister had a glass of wine - she's in NA - and she did not count it nor did I as a relapse...would it not be the same with one little joint?


I really need your wisdom and advice, so anyone that can help I'd be most grateful. I am really talking about one joint and not alcohol or anything. But I DO NOT want to start from day 1 again - and I DO NOT under any circumstances want to release my addiciton again???

Thanks everyone
cathy31
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[aasharon90]

16 months of clean and sober time is GREAT.

I still remember the wisdom i heard early on in
recovery that i continue to carry with me today.

In order for me to stay sober I had to make some
changes in my life. Those changes included staying
away from people places and things that would
remind me or tempt me with my drug of choice.... alcohol.

During my 28 day rehab stay and 6 week
intensive outpatiant aftercare program
...the tools and knowledge of my disease
were handed down to me....of how cunning
baffling and powerful it really is.

Sure i dabbled a little bit with smoking weed
until someone dusted it with angel dust which
made me hallucinate weird stuff...scared
the sh** out of me...enough to leave
it alone. My decision to stick to liquor
which was quicker to get the feeling
i wanted....

In any case....all mind altering drugs
whether it be alcohol, pills, drugs, weed,
anything and everything is a drug of
choice.

You asked if smoking weed would be
considered a slip....

If i had thoughts of thinking i could
smoke weed or take a pill just because
it wasnt my drug of choice then im
im big trouble....

See how those thoughts just seem to
pop in our mind when we least expect it...
scarry isnt it?

If i made a decision to smoke a joint even tho
my drug of choice is alcohol....for me it would
be a slip....

I heard time and time again on how once u
get sober if u drink it would NEVER be the same.

My drinking career got screwed up when i got
sober....

All those people before me that managed
to stay sober and clean for days at a time
worked the principles of their recovery program
set down before them. For me i wanted what
they had and it was a day by day work in
progress remaining ever so teachable, willing,
honest and openminded.

Hi my name is Sharon and Im an Alcoholic.

By the grace of my HP and people like
you here in SR I havent found it necessary
to pick up a drink of alcohol since 8-11-90.

For that and you I am truely grateful.

If i continue to practice the principles
of AA recovery in my everyday life ODAAT
then come this Saturday August 11, I
will have 17 yrs continuous sobriety.

Thank you for letting me share.

[Cathy31]

Wow, thank you Sharon. Your whole post meant a lot to me but in particular this part :

All those people before me that managed
to stay sober and clean for days at a time
worked the principles of their recovery program
set down before them. For me i wanted what
they had and it was a day by day work in
progress remaining ever so teachable, willing,
honest and openminded.

All those people before me really are humbling - and they've done it a day at a time and so can I - and as you say it is SO baffling and cunning I mean where did this come from!??!?!?!? Very frightening...

Thanks Sharon!

Cathy31
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[SaTiT]

You can read the AA BB and a lof of people mention about MJ.

Excuse my french but it's like this for me...i don't get f-up.
I think that covers the entire field.

But since we're in the NA section.
NA puts it as "all inclusive" of mind changing , mood altering substance.
dry form, liquid form, power form, illigel, precribe. A drug is a drug, is a drug, is a drug.

I do understranding your concern, but we can't hide.
The BB even say if I was to go to the north pole an eskimo would offer me a drink.

So to keep it very simple for myself. i said i suffer from am allergy.
My alergic reactions is a break out of a rash of insanity.

I'm also allergic to corn. People eat it everyday, it's legal and can be healthy
for most people. But when I eat corn, i break out in hives all over.
I don't run when I see corn in the super market, i just don't intake it.

But maybe perhaps you're consern is more of being accepted
or peer pressure. If your freind is truly your friend. You're friend would
understand. My freinds don't offer me alcohol or talk to much about it
or make it an issue or a coversation. My freinds don't want me to died
or suffer.

[Cathy31]

Originally Posted by SaTiT

So to keep it very simple for myself. i said i suffer from am allergy.
My alergic reactions is a break out of a rash of insanity.

Thank you very much - this makes a lot of sense. And one thing I DO know is that I do not want that insanity to return!!!!!!

Thanks Satit!

Cathy31
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[Peter]

If the temptation to smoke weed is causing you confusion then don't smoke the weed.

Stop focusing on what your sister is doing. Another addicts idea of recovery might get me killed.

[Cathy31]

Thanks Peter. It's not that I'm focussing on what she's doing, per se - I'm just saying that the equivalent (glass of wine/one joint) really really was not a hinderance to her recovery...however, you are right, it IS causing me confusion and discomfort, so that should be warning enough!

Many thanks
Cahty31
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[lucyo]

Originally Posted by Cathy31

My question is :

1) If I had a joint - would that be the end of my clean time??
2) Dope is really not my doc, my sister had a glass of wine - she's in NA - and she did not count it nor did I as a relapse...would it not be the same with one little joint?

my opinion here, and i think if you read our literature (particularly the Basic Text), you'll see for the most part its the opinion of NA.

a joint would be using
just like a glass of wine would be using... i'm not sure if your sister has a sponsor, or does any service work in NA, or shared in the meeting how she drank wine, but i've never heard of anyone using (even if its a glass of wine or a joint) and not starting over with their cleantime.

to smoke a joint/drink a glass of wine is like playing russian roulette. its that first drug that starts the process. one is too many and a thousand never enough. maybe you wouldn't use again right away, might be weeks, even months, but if you could get away with one joint/glass of wine, what would be next? you could do it again. and IF you can use successfully, why are you in NA. obviously you can't use successfully or you wouldn't be here.

if i was going to be on a trip with someone that used, i would ask them not to use period...

[Cathy31]

Thanks Lucyo, LOL my friend does not even use, I would probably be the one encouraging it! I never used drugs except the odd joint like once a year, and I use NA to augment my recovery, I see alcohol as my DOC. I know my sister is not the issue at all - she has no sponsor or does service, so go figure!

I think my problem is that I DO think that I can 'use' successfully, just not alcohol. That has been my experience, I was never into drugs...but your point is a very valid one, and you are right using is using and I would, certainly in NA, start from day 0 again.

I am terrified of releasing my insanity again, although I have to be honest the thought of just checking out and getting stoned is very tempting...yes, the problem (as it USED to eb with alcohol) is that i do not think that I am powerless over marijuana - only alcohol.

I am going to talk to my sponsor about it, pray on it and do my stepwork.

My best result (apart from being able to use moderately LOL!!!!) would be to have the obsession removed, as it was with alcohol and I need to pray about it.

All of your replies have given me SO much food for thought, thank you!!!

Cathy31
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[Gmoney]

I totally agree with LucyO. A relapse is a relapse, no matter what your drug of choice is. A drug is a drug. If I have a drink...I'm no longer clean. If I smoke a joint...I'm no longer clean. For me to entertain the idea of getting high on anything signals that I've got a reservation. NA tells me that unless I let go of my reservations, no matter what they are, the foundation of my recovery is in danger.

I recall the days when I use to tell myself that alcohol wasn't my problem because I wasn't into it like I was dope. Today I know that if I get high on anything, I lose the ability to think rationally. No wonder every time I had a drink I ended up using. Like LucyO said, it may not have been immediately...but I always used afterwards. It was always the first one (one is too many...) that did me in.

I'm clean today because I know that using any drug (liquid, pill, power or smokable) releases my addiction all over again and just for today I choose not to gamble with my recovery.

[Alera]

I was never one for drugs, alcohol was always my DOC. I could always take or leave drugs...which makes me lean towards thinking that I could easily have a joint with my friend, it might be quite nice just to 'escape' for a bit and I am 100% CERTAIN that I am powerless over alcohol so that is not in question...

For that reason alone, I would count it against my clean time. I have part of a glass of wine once in a blue blue moon, but I never had trouble with alcohol, and I did not drink to become intoxicated, I drank because it enhanced the meal. If I was drinking for the feeling, I would start at day one, no if ands or buts.

[lucyo]

Originally Posted by Alera

I have part of a glass of wine once in a blue blue moon, but I never had trouble with alcohol, and I did not drink to become intoxicated, I drank because it enhanced the meal. If I was drinking for the feeling, I would start at day one, no if ands or buts.

hi alera, you realize that is completely against the NA program.
we are not a program of moderation.
there are programs out there that are about that.
doesn't matter if you're drinking/using for the taste, enhance a meal, to be social or to get high. using is using in NA.

in na we learn how to stop using, not how to moderate it... its not ok to justify using a drug just because its not used to get high (medication is a whole nother can of worms so i'm not even talking about that here)

it seems really wrong to suggest to someone asking for help on a narcotics anonymous message board that it might be ok to take a drink or smoke a joint, or take a pill so long as its not taken for the feeling.

how many newcomers do you think might read what you wrote and run with it... ooohh its ok to drink with a meal if its just for the taste. most people can't do what you do... drink once in a blue blue moon. but i bet you there will be those who try it cause you said it works for you. those same people might relapse and die.

na is a program of complete abstinence from mood/mind altering drugs.
thinking of alcohol (or any drug) as different from other drugs has caused a great many addicts to relapse

[Gmoney]

Sweet tea "enhances" my meals. Ooo, Ooo...so does a milkshake!!

The NA Basic Text tells us that we addicts are great ones for manipulating the truth. I'm not saying that Alera isn't being honest, but I can't help but recall all the times I told myself that I was ONLY going to have a little bit, or a half a glass...

Over time those little bits and half glasses became more and more because I'd lie to myself and believe I could handle it. Even if I told myself that I was using just for the taste and not the feeling, I'd be lying because the honest truth is that I enjoyed the feeling. I can never forget that compulsion (not being able to stop once I start) is a huge part of MY disease.

[calabash]

Hi,

Oh my, I have just gone through this in my recovery. I am a drug addict. My sponsor over the last 18 months of recovery has also helped me look at the role alcohol has played in my life. In early recovery I identified myself as an alcoholic. For the 1st year of recovery I abstainbed from all mind altering substances. As a rule I do not drink, especially at a party. But on my wedding aniversary I had a small glass of champagne. The 2 months later at dinner with my wife I had a glass of wine - oh my how it enhances the food. I had about 6 units of alcohol over a period of 6 months.

I never got drunk, and never drank to get drunk. In my little addict mind then, thisd was not relapse.

Until I started struggling with my 4th step. I met with my sponsor (dual addict) and spoke about my drinking. He asked me how much of my DOC I would need to do before I considered it a relapse. DAH, its not a programme of moderation.

I held a service position in my na homegroup0, from which I have resigned. I fessed up, and shared how I did not consider it relapse. However, the programme is clear. Very clear about alcohol as a drug. It does not say drank to get drunk. It says a programme of complete abstinance. Scary how deep my addiction runs!

So, I am starting my clean time all over again. I now refrain from that gl;ass of merlot, celbratory champagne etc. I work the programme.

I cannot cherry pick the parts of the programme I like. Its an all or nothing programme in my view.

Amasingly I feel much stronger in my recovery asgain, reworking a couple of stepos like 1 and 2 in terms of alcohol. So slowed down on my satep progression - but so what. I want a full, dedicated recovery. God knows most of my life has been about shortcuts. Aint gonna work in terms of recovery.

So, leave that spliff, while it may apper innocent enough, it does impact on recovery in my experience.
I thought those odd sips were innocent, but must admit they slowed my recovery, even blocked some growth.

Wow, I needed this thread!

[Cathy31]

You have all helped me hugely. Thank you. I wrote on another thread that I woke up this morning - and had this blinding realisation (things have NOT been going well lately, surprise surprise hence the desire to escape 'a bit') that ALL i have is my sobriety - and that means clean and sober - not just sober. NA has meant so much to me as part of my recovery program - it would be really wrong to go against what is a fundamental teaching, and I feel strong today and I can almost see it in perspective.
Thanks everyone, I will update you on my return! And when i get my 18 month chip - honestly and truly!

Cathy31
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[Cathy31]

Originally Posted by calabash

I want a full, dedicated recovery. God knows most of my life has been about shortcuts. Aint gonna work in terms of recovery.

Calabash! WOW! That spoke to me so so much - me too, I want a full, dedicated recovery. I have ALWAYS been about the easier, softer way...shortcuts all over the show!!! Thank you for sharing this with me, and your whole post, so strengthening and helpful - thank you!!!

Greetings to you in Sunny South Africa!

Cathy31
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[lafever chris]

The first thing i`d ask myself is, what bussiness do i have there, i dont know to many people who go there for the sights, you might as well go to new orleans to the french quarter, i`m almost 100 percent sure if you go you`ll slip. Are you sure your not setting yourself up, the majority of addicts i know like to test there recovery, theres that little monster that says maybe your not an addict, you should find out, you`ve gone this long. Dont forget that first week detoxing. That first 30 days, do you really want to do that all over again? Always remember if you sit in a barber shop long enough your gonna get your hair cut.


chris

[Cathy31]

Last day of my holiday in Amsterdam and Copenhagen!! I did not use any hash-marijuana in Amsterdam - also did not drink, which I knew I would not with God`s help...but VERY happy I did not use marijuana and was able to realise that it WOULD affect my clean time AND that it would jeopardise my God given recovery! I also found some GREAT NA and AA meetings while on holiday and <their strength and hope was also helpful in keeping clean!! Very grateful, very pleased!!!

Love Cathy31 x

[Cathy31]

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...lp-please.html (Am very Confused, Help Please?)

An Update!!! Very pleased!!!

[TONYTEXAS]

IMO Its complete abstinence from all drugs. Weed is a drug. It comes down to being honest to yourself then others. I probably wouldnt go unless I was with recovering addicts. Some people can take a tolk or a drink and there life is fine. Im an addict and it doesnt work that way

[catecicc]

Gary I love the way you put that...."Clean is all inclusive"

Kudos

[Cathy31]

Um, yeah but the point is that I DID go, I had an amazing holiday and the update is to say that I DID stay clean from ALL drugs!! very pleased!