Reading The Bible In A NA Meeting?

[Chance]

WTF is that all about! I have NEVER in my life heard of anyone allowed to read a Bible in a NA Meeting much less being allowed to even bring one into a meeting. This is not right! I am so upset about what someone just told me from another group that they allow her to read the bible in the meeting. I think that it is time that someone got in touch with NAWS and I think that time is now. I will not stand by and let a Group go against the TRADITIONS that does effect NA as a whole. I can not believe it still. OMG what have we done with this program?

With Love and Respect

Vic

[Sunflower]

I have to agree--I thought it wasn't allowed--that the rule was you believed in a ''higher power'' what ever that is to you......but I have seen it at alanon meetings --plus a lot of people I know complain about it from the AA meetings as well--I dont even think he word God should be used---and I believe in God--its just others may be uncomfortable and AA is not supposed to push religion of any kind

[IO Storm]

Yep, I agree.....separation from The A groups and

religion...although a revival groups 6 steps to salvation

filtered down to Bob and Bill and they took it to the

streets...

I believe each case as it has been said should handled in

the group conscience or that person taken aside by the

old timers. Unless...the GSR wants to take that on.

And it does say "A loving God as He may express Himself

in our group conscience".....

Maybe they are a newcomer and simply don't know no

bettah.

2 cents done.

Love you all no matter what.


Sherry

[SaTiT]

Come on now Vic....NO RULES

Maybe hp want u to practice on tolerance, letting go for the day.lol... i don't know.
practice, practice,practice......
Every so often we have to deal with external source...it saids what it saids.

I did remember a church memeber attending NA becuase NA
was held on church's ground. He thought the 5th step was
like a sort of confession or some damn thing. Giving newcomer
all kinds of wellies.lol
I just share my ESH and hope.
" i look god in his teary eyes and told him the F--off"
no lighting, no thunder....ya know
I say... F-it is the short form.

Old man looked at me like i was a loone.lol

oh yeah i say " i go to church to save my soul"
I go to NA to save my ASS !!!".lol

[doorknob]

From a secular perspective, I don't really see much difference...

[Chance]

Tradition 4 NA Basic Text Pg 63-64

A Narcotics Anonymous group is any meeting which meets regularly at a specified place and time for the purpose of recovery provided that it follows the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions of Narcotics Anonymous.

So with that how can this even be considered a NA Group?

It would seem that we, in our groups, can do whatever we decide regardless of what anyone says. This is partly true. Each group does have complete freedom, except when their actions affect other groups or N.A. as a whole. Like group conscience, autonomy can be a two-edged sword. Group autonomy has been used to justify the violation of the Traditions. If a contradiction exists, we have slipped away from our principles. If we check to make sure that our actions are clearly within the bounds of our Traditions; if we do not dictate to other groups, or force anything upon them; and if we consider the consequences of our action ahead of time, then all will be well.

Tradition 6

Let's take a look at what this Tradition says. The first thing a group ought never do is endorse. To endorse is to sanction, approve or recommend. Endorsements can be either direct or implied. We see direct endorsements everyday in T.V. commercials. An implied endorsement is one that is not specifically stated.

[Rusty Zipper]

vic...more info is needed... did they read it, then asked to stop reading it.. or was the reading continued... ???

if continued... then Houstin, we have a problem... a big problem... IMO...

zip

[best]

I understand the concerns but I think you are all getting worked up over something that doesn't need be getting you upset.

Someone read from a book that has and still does help many people.

OK it was done in a meeting. Move to the next order of business.

"After the meeting"... Say thank you that was nice but explain that such should be held for special small group among people who are accepting of such.

[BigSis]

I didn't know better and brought the AA Big Book to one of my first Alanon meetings. Had no idea it was specifically NOT conference approved literature. Didn't read from it, but I was taken aside after the meeting and the issue was discussed... kindly.

[SaTiT]

IMO...

most newbies are not going want to attend a holi roller fest.
Second most older members are not going to put up with it.
You can leave anytime you want.

If I was a member of that group. i can attend the bussiness meetings
and throw the book at them.lol However, I don't have to be a member
of that group either. I resigned as an SR simply becuase I got sick
and tire of butting heads with people that havn't read it or studie it

mmm...then i start hearing complaints later of how the area
needed help and members complaining how bussiness was
being handle, months later.
Oh freaken well....

A very semilar thing happened in AA in my area.
Some egotic maniac got into a posistion...and started emeshing
with funding. Most older folks and many folks didn't agree with it.

Other meetings were started.

The meeting with the conflict simply got smaller and smaller.

In other words. i choose peace rather than to be right

[IO Storm]

Yep. I was exposed as an early AA to those types of

meetings. Folks trying do an umbrella type of meeting

place thing. That is all they talked about. I longed for my

little store front shop I had gone to before with worn

hand woven slogans on the peeling walls. My new terrific

sponsor lived in another city and (poor thing) took me

to another exclusive old timer meeting in my city. A

couple of them ( I knew and respected to boot) popped

up and started discussing the benefits of near beer. Poor

sponsor F--- was so furious! She wanted to move me

away that night. But we did find another decent meeting

in another city 20 miles away. Whew. Solid.

AA Serenity Big Book Study. Many were of the Christian

faith but you only knew by their smiles on their faces

(usually) and the fishies on their bumpers. I can tell you

this, no Bible study would have been tolerated. Big Book

all de way. About the God thing: In countless meetings,

NA and AA, I have heard it said by member after member,

My Higher Power, whom I choose to call God....

This is the member's choice, their right as a member,

it is not doctrine, it given as a choice.

I use it here on SR, and I stand by it here.

Firmly.

In love,

Sherry

[dalin]

and alot are looking for anyone to cosign there crap,jesus,budda,who ever will take on responsibility for there scewups.
but normaly anyone with any spiritual maturity will see thru it.

[Gmoney]

First, I want to say that it is better for me to understand than to be understood. I also agree that, although the person who read from the Bible should not have done so in a meeting, I wouldn't let it get me bent out of shape. Members are human and prone to make a misjudgement...heck...some members intentionally break Traditions just to see what happens (they enjoy a little chaos from time to time).

Like Rusty Zipper, I'm a little confused. Did they read aloud or to themselves? I mean, because if they were minding their own business and someone saw them reading their Bible while in the meeting...there shouldn't have been a problem. There is no tradition that prohibits that, just as there are no rules or guidelines that state what kind of literature a member can or cannot have in their possession at a meeting. No one frisks us at the door or screens who can or cannot enter.

On the other hand, for someone to intentionally read aloud from their Bible in a meeting demonstrates (IMHO) their lack of knowledge and understanding of our program and Traditions. Was it really a matter of "allowing" them to do it? Or did it just happen unplanned and out of the blue? If so...we members, who have experience, have an obligation to teach those who don't know any better. This is why reading the literature, getting a sponsor and a support network is so important. None of us came in the door knowing exactly what or how to share...we had to learn.

The 6th Tradition states: "We use NA literature and speakers in our meetings to help us fulfill NA's primary purpose. An NA group that uses another organization's literature or speakers endorses that organization's primary purpose, not ours."

Which brings me back to question; Was it read aloud? Was it authorized by the group or did an individual member take it upon themselves to do it? It's easy to make mountains out of molehills or jump to conclusions that the entire fellowship is going to ruin. If the group sanctioned the reading, then they should be educated or maybe have a few oldtimers come in and speak. If it was one member, then they should be approached with love and compassion and shown the NA way.

Then...we keep it moving.

[IO Storm]

GaryW:

Could not have said it better.

Borrowing from your sig;

The power of believing in God is not saying you do, so as to convince others, but living in such a way that they need not ask. - Bob Perks

You know, reflecting, I normally do not refer to HP as "God" in F t F 's.

More so here, and usually only when inspired.

[Chance]

First off about a month ago or so one of the members of this group started a heck of a controversy and said that the 3rd step of NA Sucks that he was closing the meeting with the Lords Prayer and had a newcomer there that got up and left because of this.

Now the girl told me last night that she has been reading from the Bible out load during the meeting and that a few of them even ask her at times to read from it. I haven't been over there since it all started a month ago. However I do feel that something needs to be done for this is directly against the Traditions of Narcotics Anonymous.

Sometimes we have to stand for something or we will fall for anything. And we need to ensure that our Traditions are followed according to the Program of NA as specified. As a member of NA I would be doing injustice by not getting involved here. I believe that this group isn't a NA Group if they are allowing things like this to happen. This will affect NA as a whole.

Running behind this morning be back later!

[lucyo]

although i dont think you can keep people from bringing whatever book they want to a meeting, that doesn't mean they can read from it. and i would point this out before the meeting if i noticed it.

not long ago we had someone quote some bible verses.. not just a sentence, but several. he didn't say where it was coming from, or read it from the bible. probably about half the room didn't even know it was coming from the bible.

it was my homegroup. i didn't stop him, although i went and got the basic text, and after a couple more people shared i read from the 6th tradition.
what i read was:

"An N.A. group ought never endorse, finance, or lend the N.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property or prestige divert us from our primary purpose...
The first thing a group ought never do is endorse. To endorse is to sanction, approve or recommend. Endorsements can be either direct or implied....
An outside enterprise is any agency, business venture, religion, society, organization, related activity, or any other fellowship. Most of these are easy to identify, except for the other fellowships. Narcotics Anonymous is a separate and distinct fellowship in its own right. Our problem is addiction. The other Twelve Step fellowships specialize in other problems, and our relationship with them is one of "cooperation, not affiliation". The use of literature, speakers, and announcements of other fellowships in our meetings constitutes an implied endorsement of an outside enterprise...."

I went on to explain that to me, although its saying we don't use literature from other fellowships (which are outside enterprises) that also means we don't use literature from religions (they are also outside enterprises).

i didn't direct my comment at the guy, most people in the meeting didn't even have a clue he had been quoting from the bible. but the ones that did thanked me after the meeting. unfortunately the guy who was doing it got up and left not long after i shared.

i had considered waiting til the meeting was over to talk to him, but he had done this before and had gotten out of there before i had a chance to talk to him.
i could have cut him off while he was sharing, which i really hate doing, but if he had opened up a bible and said this is from the bible, i would have.
i could have done nothing, which is what most people do.

lol i remember when this happened i brought it up on another message board to see what others do in this situation.
*waits for andyaddict to show up and tell us people can read/say whatever they want in an NA meeting, that the tradition is talking about "the group not reading from outside literature"*

[SaTiT]

Okay Vic....remember, it's we.

Have you contacted any of the Area's board members.
Has this issue been brought up in an area's meeting ?
Dose the GSR from that group even attend the Area's meetings?
There's the steps, traditions, and guidelines.
The Guildlines booklet is pretty big compare to other books.

Imo...these are issues that should not be comfronted during
a regular meetings. Becuase the addict that's sufferning the most
(newbie) will run for the hills. Becuase a lot of tentions and disagreements
being toss back and forth. There might just be that one addict
that thinking about doing the unthinkable siting in a conner
way in the back. While we're too busy hashing it out.

It's why I disagree with the holy rolling reading of the bible in NA.
The intrension might be good , but most if not all of us saw everything
fratured and process those good intensions word as hell to damnations
when we first tried to get clean and sober.

I have not yet establish a relationship with a LOVING hp or god yet.
Our perceptions were warp on a lot of issues.

Having been clean and sober for years...I don't have a problem comprehending
the bible..even then my spitual advisor had to translate to me
in a posistive manner. But I have already estabilsh a loving relationship
with my hp.

I can not forget were i can from. Bible readings in NA is a No..No...

As you know, most members don't really get too involve with service
work or hang out for the bussiness meeting for a group.
So decisions of how a group is run is actaully made by very few
indiviuals. Or sometimes during a meeting one person just make
a simple suggestions of certain issues and newcomer and 90 days
wonder just raise their hands without even knowing what the hell
they're raising thier hands for...Seen that done too many times.

If I live in the same community as you Vic. I would support
your conserns and take actions with you. But i don't.
I belive your intensions are pure.
My prayers gose out to you, and god speed.

[SaTiT]

It's too damn simple for complicated people.

Take your bible to your bible study
Take your NA text to an NA meeting.

How the hell would the christains like it if I go to a bible study
and started reading the damn NA basic text....good god.

Did you all take your history book to a math class and started reading it?

HERE's that sutpid word again.....APPROPRICATE !!!!

[Gmoney]

Thanks Chance, for providing a little more info on this. And since it appears that one member has a spur up their butt (the 3rd Step sucks?) and wants to cause controversy, it still isn't right for the group to co-sign their misbehavior. I mean, closing the meeting with the Lord's prayer isn't right, but who gives the permission to do so? The group (IMHO) is definitely being misled by "strong personalities" and the course of action taken by LucyO is what I meant by members with experience showing the way. When tact or diplomacy fails, we can take other measures to ensure our message isn't blurred by self-seekers.

This issue has been brought up before on other message boards, and a general agreement is that meetings that ignore or compromise or Traditions die a slow death. Members will stop attending and the group can be disconnected from the area. If it were me, I'd make sure I attended this meeting to witness what's being accused here. And when it happens, I would share about how it isn't correct and suggest that it doesn't continue. After that, my group's GSR would take it to the area.

[best]

Originally Posted by SaTiT

How the hell would the christains like it if I go to a bible study
and started reading the damn NA basic text....good god.

I would love having you do that.
Good God is right.

[SaTiT]

^^^ Jc is my buddy too ya know. i call him dude.
Hell... he dosen't mind. JC say...he loves me best
I not afriad of JC to call JC dude...JC my buddy.
JC say it's about time we have close relationship.
JC say he loves me NO MATTER WHAT.
JC say cast whatever crud into the drought (sheit)
I flash trudd down the toilet and forget about it.
JC wasn't really into religion to begin with.
JC smashed market squards.
JC say god belongs to everyone...not only the crazy rightious.
JC say 10 commenents too damn complicated for crazy children.
JC make it simple to only 2...love god , love one another.
JC say not to worry..cuz JC overcame the world.
JC say I can do the same.
JC say JC make place for me in heaven already
JC say satit= sunhine is writing in book of life already
JC say I don't need to earn love..JC say I'm love.
JC holds me up when i fall...JC say it's okay dude, I love you.
JC say..i learned how to BE happy right NOW...if I not know how to be happy i won't be happi in heaven either

[best]

and JC said.... if you love me, you will follow my ways.