Used, but still "clean?" How you figure that? - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

Gmoney · 03-03-2007, 12:39 AM

"The only way to keep from returning to active addiction is not to take that first drug. If you are like us you know that one is too many and a thousand is never enough. We put great emphasis on this, for we know that when we use drugs in any form, or substitute one for another, we release our addiction all over again.

Thinking of alcohol as different from other drugs has caused a great many addicts to relapse. Before we came to NA many of us viewed alcohol separately, but we cannot afford to be confused about this. Alcohol is a drug. We are people with the disease of addiction who must abstain from all drugs in order to recover." Basic Text, page 18

I recall this excerpt every time I hear someone claim that they still have their recovery or clean date after they've used. Another excerpt that comes to mind is, "When we use, we lose." I don't consider myself a book-thumper, NA purist, or NA Fanatic, but for me there are some basic things that I try my best not to be confused about: [1] If I'm using anything to alter my mood or mind - I need to review my 1st Step. [2] Being clean means I am not using, regardless of whether I've suffered an immediate consequence or not. And substitution/relapse means a break in my clean time. And [3] having a wealth of information or knowledge about recovery isn't the same thing as applying what I know on a daily basis to stay clean. Some call it, "walking the walk."

I just read a post where a member admitted to drinking 6 beers. This member stated that they felt no adverse effects from the relapse and had no craving for more. Although I admire the courage, humility and honesty revealed in their admission, it was the responses to the post that drew my attention. A large number of the replys asserted that a relapse didn't constitute a break in clean time nor was it a reflection of their recovery. One person even talked about how they "occasionally" smoke pot and have a drink from time to time, yet claimed to have recovery and clean time. That doesn't sound like recovery to me....it sounds like using.

It's been almost 9 years since I've had a drink or a drug....almost 9 years of continuous clean time, but I recall a period in my story where I abstained from my DOC for almost the same length of time. Back then I knew nothing of the disease concept of addiction or 12 steps. I knew nothing about progression. I knew nothing about relapse starting long before the actual use, and I certainly knew nothing about reservations. I believed that as long as I didn't use THAT drug, I'd be okay. I drank and smoked weed "occasionally" and thought I was normal. I had no idea that an altered mind couldn't consistently make good decisions. After eventually using my DOC, it took me another 4 years of hell to find real recovery.

I might sound like a hard-ass to some, but I've learned from my experience that using is using and if you've used, you've lost whatever clean time or recovery you think you had. If your program includes an occasional get high, it's certainly not a program I'd want to follow. And if you've used and still want to claim that you have your recovery...it's a good bet that you didn't have as much as you thought you did or you wouldn't have used. Clean time can be over-rated and there are those who will cling to it knowing full well they're in denial. Those that do so send a mixed message to the newer member. Because addiction is an incurable disease, addicts are subject to relapse and because relapse can happen it very often does. There is no shame in getting honest, humble, surrendering and starting over.

I pray that I continue to use what I have so that I don't lose it to relapse. I also pray that, if relapse ever occurs (and I survive), I'm honest, open-minded and willing to return and admit that whatever I thought I had before was surrendered to my disease prior to my pick up and I have a new clean date. Relapse is never by accident, and the decision to use reveals more than the false pride of clinging to an expired clean date.

GarryW

**best** · 03-03-2007, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarryW

I might sound like a hard-ass to some, but I've learned from my experience that using is using and if you've used, you've lost whatever clean time or recovery you think you had.

I would say your more a purist then a hard A.

Clean time is clean time. If I have 5 years with a break between the next 5 years...I still have 10 years of clean time to draw on and learn from.
I don't have 10 years of running time though. A break starts me at day one with some experience (and maybe a tougher day one then the first one)
I think the more important things we should look at when anyone relapses...
Did they get back up and try again?
Did they learn anything from the relapse?
They are more then likely to be at a low point by their own thinking...should we be kicking them to push them lower or helping them as they get back up.

What good does it do telling a person...Well you just busted your clean time record. All any of us have is today... this 24 hours.
The person with the most recovery is the person who woke up first today.

***Doug*** · 03-03-2007, 03:47 AM

I don't agree with losing whatever recovery you had. Everything you learned, and so on is still within you, And there's that saying that recovery ruins your using. (or drinking). If you lost your recovery, it wouldn't interfer with using.

However I do agree with losing your clean time. While you do still have that time behind you that you were clean, now its time to start the count over. Consecutive days clean and/or sober.

This is a good question though:

Quote:

Used, but still "clean?" How you figure that?

I don't agree with the drugs are different from alcohol either.(I feel argueing this point is just picking the fly shyt out of the pepper really) They all do the same thing, essentially, but thats probably best saved for another thread.

This thread should be interesting on its own...

SaTiT · 03-03-2007, 10:59 AM

I can't figure it and I don't want to.

i got drunk for a couple of weeks after 11 years.
My drug of chioce is meth.
My current clean and sober date is 09/14/04.
it's simple and sweet.

REZ · 03-03-2007, 11:01 AM

I hear a lot of people say things like "I've got 30 days clean, but I've been coming around these rooms for 7 years." I don't know what they think they have to add the second part. I agree that all we have is today...BUT...let's be honest about how long we have been drug free! C'mon! You're only fooling yourself if you think that coming in and out for 7 years is the same as being clean for 7 years...

Gmoney · 03-03-2007, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by best

I would say your more a purist then a hard A.

Clean time is clean time. If I have 5 years with a break between the next 5 years...I still have 10 years of clean time to draw on and learn from.
I don't have 10 years of running time though. A break starts me at day one with some experience (and maybe a tougher day one then the first one)
I think the more important things we should look at when anyone relapses...
Did they get back up and try again?
Did they learn anything from the relapse?
They are more then likely to be at a low point by their own thinking...should we be kicking them to push them lower or helping them as they get back up.

What good does it do telling a person...Well you just busted your clean time record. All any of us have is today... this 24 hours.
The person with the most recovery is the person who woke up first today.

It appears that some folks interpret clean time as recovery, and I guess if it works for you...so be it. For me, clean time is abstinence and recovery includes clean time but isn't the same. My point, in case some missed it, was that having information or knowledge from a past period of being clean doesn't constitute "clean time" in the sense of time gained since the last use or relapse. I mean, if I included every day I didn't use in my life, I could add to my clean time all the times I wasn't using between relapses, the years before I ever used, etc... and I could claim almost 30 years clean time to "draw from"!! (LOL!!)

I don't make it a point to go around telling anyone that they "busted their clean time record," they should already know it. Denial of the truth doesn't change the truth, and very often the truth has a very sharp edge. I may not like it, but I have to accept it. This isn't about beating people up with their relapse as it is more about suggesting that they get honest, dust themselves off, accept the reality that they missed, overlooked or ignored something the previous time around (i.e., we don't use no matter what) and become willing to start over. I disagree that the person with the most recovery is who woke up first today because recovery is about more than clean time. Sure... all we have is a daily reprieve, but when we fail to fulfill the responsibilities that come with our recovery on a daily basis, our program stops. It is my belief that you can't be working on your recovery and working on a relapse at the same time. Relapse is never by accident.

SaTiT · 03-03-2007, 01:41 PM

Yes...true , but it's progress not perfection.
I can't expect everybody or anybody to see it as i see it.
Not to say or think I'm holier than thou.
But I can no longer stand to be around peaple that's F-up one way or the other. In or out the rooms of recovery.
Everyone has thier own process/journey/path to the day of awakening.
It is only by the grace of God that I'm still alive and where I'm at.
The lessons I gain through the room/program of recovery i can apply
in my own life.

basicailly , I've have yet to find a place of employment where
peaple are not a bunch of lying, stealing thieves, and they get
pretty much f-up everyday.

The tolerance i gain in attending some meetings allows me
to deal or not deal with some of the crap that gose on at my place
of employment.

law47 · 03-03-2007, 08:21 PM

This is an interesting topic for me to reply to. I recently relapsed on narcotics after 6 years of sobriety. I was dealing with chronic pain and ended up abusing pain meds. Fortunatly it didn't take me long to get honest about it. I have a good sponsor and I told her I was having trouble, before my life became too unmanagable. I got scared. I didn't have a hard time admitting it to the group that I relapsed the first time,but 6 months later I relapsed again. Its really hard for me to accept that I lost all that time. But I have been told I didn't loose it, I still have all those years I learned from. It takes a lot of humility to admit that I relapsed, but its much better then the consequenses that would follow if I continued to follow the path of destruction. I have today. I have to get rid of my pride and suck it up. I am just so grateful that my HP was with me and giving me that nudge.
I'm trying to get back what I had before when I was working my program and going to meetings daily. I became complacent with my program. I'm just having a hard time with the willingness of late. I realize half measures avail us nothing. I feel like I go 3 steps forward and 2 steps back. If I don't go all the way into this simple program I will relapse again. So my plan is to go back to meeting on a daily basis again and start working the steps. I commited that to my sponsor today.
Its good to be back to sober recovery. I haven't been on for several months. And I never posted on NA recovery before. I was told by my couselor that I should try going to an NA meeting too.
My sponsor laughed at me when I told her my reply to him. I said NA isn't for me, those people are on street drugs. I guess thats the same as saying I'm not an alcoholic, they are people that walk the streets with a brown bag in their pocket. lol.
I'm Lori and I am an alcoholic and drug addict.

REZ · 03-04-2007, 11:22 AM

I'm glad you're back. How did you approach your pain management problem? Did you talk to your sponsor about it before taking any narcotics? Did you let your doctors know about your situation?

law47 · 03-04-2007, 02:20 PM

Hi Rez,
Yes, I have talk to my sponsor about the narcotics. Of course she knew long before I relapsed that I was having problems taking the right amount. But just keeping that honesty with her was difficult, although I felt the guilt after I abused the meds for a few weeks and I did tell her. She said I had to start my recovery over. I knew she would tell me that, but I also knew I had to, its part of surrendering to the disease (Which I hate). I also changed doctors for insurance reasons. I called my sponsor right away and made the commitment to be totally honest with the doc. When I had my first appointment I told her everything. That was hard too. I had alot of second thoughts. Like, maybe I can tell her I'm in a lot of pain and she'll give me something strong. My HP was definetly with me.
I keep praying that the obsession to use will be lifted. Prayer works because I want to use everytime I have pain. Its sucks sometimes. But when I work my program and go to lots of meetings I feel stronger.
God also speaks to us when we listen, and we are silent. Did you know listen and silent have all the same letters. Pretty cool, huh?

REZ · 03-05-2007, 10:37 AM

Law47:
I wish you the best. Stay clean, stay cool.

Gmoney · 03-05-2007, 11:39 AM

Here's something to consider:

I have a friend who has struggled with getting clean and staying clean for over 8 years. I've known her for at least 10 years and we're very close. She called me last week, before our convention, and asked me if I'd mind if she tagged along. I was excited and pleased because she's coming up on a year clean and has shyed away from attending NA meetings because of shame and guilt associated with prostituting while in active addiction.

At the convention, she appeared to be comfortable and relaxed but during the ride home she shared with me that there were a number of men attending the convention whom she had "dated" while using. She named them all and when she mentioned one in particular, I told her that he recently celebrated 8 years clean. To this she laughed and told me that this guy had not only dated with her over a year ago, but he purchased drugs and used them with her. She described his car, the clothes he wore and other details that assured me she wasn't lying.

For me, this was just another example of how some of us cling to expired clean dates (for whatever reason). I'm sure he was shocked to see her at the convention.

jbit · 03-05-2007, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarryW

I just read a post where a member admitted to drinking 6 beers. This member stated that they felt no adverse effects from the relapse and had no craving for more. Although I admire the courage, humility and honesty revealed in their admission, it was the responses to the post that drew my attention. A large number of the replys asserted that a relapse didn't constitute a break in clean time nor was it a reflection of their recovery. One person even talked about how they "occasionally" smoke pot and have a drink from time to time, yet claimed to have recovery and clean time.

GarryW

I read this too and it took some restraint to not reply to some of the posts. I can only hope its someone new who just doesn't understand what recovery is yet.

Moontime · 03-05-2007, 01:44 PM

One Disease
One Program

If you have two diseases and two or three different clean dates, don't forget to give a $1 for each disease in the next 7th tradition basket. The first step doesn't say a particular substance causes unmanageability, it says addiction.

Chance · 03-05-2007, 02:35 PM

Any mind or mood altering chemical ehhh.

I am well aware of what the NA Basic Text says, I am aware that most people that I know like to quote certain things to get there point across and let the other parts of the Basic Text go to way side. I try to avoid much of these discussions for really to get right down to it there is also

Quote:

"Too Thy Own Self Be True."

Of course now that quote is from AA which we members of NA are truly grateful for there guidance.

Right now I am taking so much medication, Interferon Treatment, which also with that I have to take a mind/mood altering chemical called Anti-D's in order to off set the effects of the shot. Last time I was on the shots I said it would be a cold day in hell before I took any anti-d's and today I thank my HP for them and for the doctors that are well equipped to handling a lot of our cases.

I have a little over 9 months clean, but according to the mind altering chemical and yes anti-d's are chemicals I would have to say that I still have my clean time even though I haven't taken one since this morning

. If we really wanted to get down to it.....take my cigarettes away and you will for sure see my mood change or my coffee. Let us also remember that if we worrying about others and it is effecting our serenity than maybe we might need to look at why it is bothering us. Are we maybe jealous because they can smoke and drink once in awhile and we know that we can't? Might have to look at a lot of different things here to get down to the root of the problem.

With Love and Respect

Vic

Moontime · 03-05-2007, 02:38 PM

Vic, you are a member when you say you are a member.

Chance · 03-05-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moontime

Vic, you are a member when you say you are a member.

Thanks and how is the new wife going? Hope all is well for you, I think of you often and boy this board has been really slow up until now

Live2Ride · 03-05-2007, 02:43 PM

GarryW:

I admire you for your post and to me it represents integrity. Keep up the good fight!

Moontime · 03-05-2007, 04:27 PM

Going Well Vic, thanks. My wife is due friday so new changes in store

Thundar301 · 03-05-2007, 08:48 PM

Hello family, sorry i haven't been on here in a while , busy trucking, just got bact from Waco TX to Baton Rouge LA to Dayton OH run. my this is a good tread subject to read for the 1st one coming home off the road , read a lot of good things here , you guys and gals rock , and I for one am glad to include you in my recovery whenever I can get here,thank you ALL. Now , that being said, I am of the belief that clean time and recovery are two seperate things totally, you can have recovery and clean time together, but you can also have just the clean time with out very much recovery. Once you use your clean time is over and a new beginning should be in order, why because there a section of your clean time fragmented, interupted so to speak, but don't let that keep you from finding your recovery, it is out there if you want to do the work for it. but if you need to do more research for yourself, by all means the lab is out there, get your coat on and find what your looking for , and when you come back in with arrows stuck in you all over from the scout mission you had to go on , we'll be there too, open arms, willing to share our recovery experince with you, but remember you don't have to go, ever, stay , get a cup of joe and cop a squat, stay a while, you might like a little of what you hear??? who knows

"Once you make a decision, the universe conspires to make it happen"..Ralph W. Emerson

Gmoney · 03-05-2007, 11:32 PM

As a member of NA, and one who is also well-versed on the literature, I feel a need to clarify that the quote referred to by Vic actually states, "mood-changing, mind-altering substance..." not chemical. Yet, I can see how some of us may get caught up in semantics and miss the big picture (chemical, shmemical, substance, smubstance). I mean, there are those who may quote an excerpt as a point of referrence AND be well aware of the "other parts of the Basic Text" and choose not to refer to them. I guess if one is looking to find fault or to critique...that's easy to do.

NA also has literature that addresses members that are on prescribed medication (In Times of Illness) and the Basic Text even talks about medication being used for serious illness or surgery. My purpose for initiating this dialogue wasn't to question the clean time of members who have a legitimate reason for taking prescribed meds, nor did I intend to cause anyone to defend their need in this area. I, for one, had also been prescribed antidepressants in early recovery. I took them as directed - not to get high. To go in this direction is a big stretch from drinking beers, smoking weed, or picking up a prostitute and using crack. I believe it's only the fanatics that try to say that people who smoke cigarettes, eat chocolate, drink coffee that has caffeine in it, drink energy drinks, that masturbate, or do anything beyond their approval aren't "clean." Folks like that miss the whole point. If we really want to get fanatical...plain cold water can change a person's mood and alter their mind (many doctor's suggest it for headaches). As I said before...I don't see myself as an NA Purist.

Commenting on something I recognize isn't a matter of worrying about those who are misguided or misinformed...and it's definitely not a matter of jealousy. That's another big stretch (some may call it empathy or consideration). Calling it as I see it has served me as an asset as well as a defect, but I prefer to stand for something as opposed to being wishy-washy and riding the fence. In case Vic missed it, the "root of the problem" is addiction and how it can deceive some of us into believing it's okay to get high as long as it's not our DOC or as long as we don't tell anybody our clean date has changed. The "bother" is that there may be those who will be misled by what gets posted here and die. If I can offer anything to prevent this, it certainly is worth trying. Members who are experienced in recovery have a responsibility to carry the message and not the mess. That's what it's all about...psychoanalysis is not required.

Be blessed,

GarryW.

03-03-2007, 12:39 AM	#1 (permalink)
Gmoney Recovering Addict Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Around the way Posts: 1,596	Used, but still "clean?" How you figure that? "The only way to keep from returning to active addiction is not to take that first drug. If you are like us you know that one is too many and a thousand is never enough. We put great emphasis on this, for we know that when we use drugs in any form, or substitute one for another, we release our addiction all over again. Thinking of alcohol as different from other drugs has caused a great many addicts to relapse. Before we came to NA many of us viewed alcohol separately, but we cannot afford to be confused about this. Alcohol is a drug. We are people with the disease of addiction who must abstain from all drugs in order to recover." Basic Text, page 18 I recall this excerpt every time I hear someone claim that they still have their recovery or clean date after they've used. Another excerpt that comes to mind is, "When we use, we lose." I don't consider myself a book-thumper, NA purist, or NA Fanatic, but for me there are some basic things that I try my best not to be confused about: [1] If I'm using anything to alter my mood or mind - I need to review my 1st Step. [2] Being clean means I am not using, regardless of whether I've suffered an immediate consequence or not. And substitution/relapse means a break in my clean time. And [3] having a wealth of information or knowledge about recovery isn't the same thing as applying what I know on a daily basis to stay clean. Some call it, "walking the walk." I just read a post where a member admitted to drinking 6 beers. This member stated that they felt no adverse effects from the relapse and had no craving for more. Although I admire the courage, humility and honesty revealed in their admission, it was the responses to the post that drew my attention. A large number of the replys asserted that a relapse didn't constitute a break in clean time nor was it a reflection of their recovery. One person even talked about how they "occasionally" smoke pot and have a drink from time to time, yet claimed to have recovery and clean time. That doesn't sound like recovery to me....it sounds like using. It's been almost 9 years since I've had a drink or a drug....almost 9 years of continuous clean time, but I recall a period in my story where I abstained from my DOC for almost the same length of time. Back then I knew nothing of the disease concept of addiction or 12 steps. I knew nothing about progression. I knew nothing about relapse starting long before the actual use, and I certainly knew nothing about reservations. I believed that as long as I didn't use THAT drug, I'd be okay. I drank and smoked weed "occasionally" and thought I was normal. I had no idea that an altered mind couldn't consistently make good decisions. After eventually using my DOC, it took me another 4 years of hell to find real recovery. I might sound like a hard-ass to some, but I've learned from my experience that using is using and if you've used, you've lost whatever clean time or recovery you think you had. If your program includes an occasional get high, it's certainly not a program I'd want to follow. And if you've used and still want to claim that you have your recovery...it's a good bet that you didn't have as much as you thought you did or you wouldn't have used. Clean time can be over-rated and there are those who will cling to it knowing full well they're in denial. Those that do so send a mixed message to the newer member. Because addiction is an incurable disease, addicts are subject to relapse and because relapse can happen it very often does. There is no shame in getting honest, humble, surrendering and starting over. I pray that I continue to use what I have so that I don't lose it to relapse. I also pray that, if relapse ever occurs (and I survive), I'm honest, open-minded and willing to return and admit that whatever I thought I had before was surrendered to my disease prior to my pick up and I have a new clean date. Relapse is never by accident, and the decision to use reveals more than the false pride of clinging to an expired clean date. GarryW __________________ "One Promise, Many Rewards."

03-05-2007, 11:39 AM	#12 (permalink)
Gmoney Recovering Addict Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Around the way Posts: 1,596	Here's something to consider: I have a friend who has struggled with getting clean and staying clean for over 8 years. I've known her for at least 10 years and we're very close. She called me last week, before our convention, and asked me if I'd mind if she tagged along. I was excited and pleased because she's coming up on a year clean and has shyed away from attending NA meetings because of shame and guilt associated with prostituting while in active addiction. At the convention, she appeared to be comfortable and relaxed but during the ride home she shared with me that there were a number of men attending the convention whom she had "dated" while using. She named them all and when she mentioned one in particular, I told her that he recently celebrated 8 years clean. To this she laughed and told me that this guy had not only dated with her over a year ago, but he purchased drugs and used them with her. She described his car, the clothes he wore and other details that assured me she wasn't lying. For me, this was just another example of how some of us cling to expired clean dates (for whatever reason). I'm sure he was shocked to see her at the convention. __________________ "One Promise, Many Rewards."

03-05-2007, 01:44 PM	#14 (permalink)
Moontime Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Charlottesville, Va Posts: 624	One Disease One Program If you have two diseases and two or three different clean dates, don't forget to give a $1 for each disease in the next 7th tradition basket. The first step doesn't say a particular substance causes unmanageability, it says addiction. __________________ Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to God. -Lenny Bruce

03-05-2007, 02:38 PM	#16 (permalink)
Moontime Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Charlottesville, Va Posts: 624	Vic, you are a member when you say you are a member. __________________ Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to God. -Lenny Bruce

03-05-2007, 04:27 PM	#19 (permalink)
Moontime Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Charlottesville, Va Posts: 624	Going Well Vic, thanks. My wife is due friday so new changes in store __________________ Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to God. -Lenny Bruce

03-03-2007, 10:59 AM	#4 (permalink)
SaTiT Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: anomaly Posts: 2,196	I can't figure it and I don't want to. i got drunk for a couple of weeks after 11 years. My drug of chioce is meth. My current clean and sober date is 09/14/04. it's simple and sweet.

03-03-2007, 11:01 AM	#5 (permalink)
REZ Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Chapel Hill, NC Posts: 987	I hear a lot of people say things like "I've got 30 days clean, but I've been coming around these rooms for 7 years." I don't know what they think they have to add the second part. I agree that all we have is today...BUT...let's be honest about how long we have been drug free! C'mon! You're only fooling yourself if you think that coming in and out for 7 years is the same as being clean for 7 years...

03-03-2007, 01:41 PM	#7 (permalink)
SaTiT Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: anomaly Posts: 2,196	Yes...true , but it's progress not perfection. I can't expect everybody or anybody to see it as i see it. Not to say or think I'm holier than thou. But I can no longer stand to be around peaple that's F-up one way or the other. In or out the rooms of recovery. Everyone has thier own process/journey/path to the day of awakening. It is only by the grace of God that I'm still alive and where I'm at. The lessons I gain through the room/program of recovery i can apply in my own life. basicailly , I've have yet to find a place of employment where peaple are not a bunch of lying, stealing thieves, and they get pretty much f-up everyday. The tolerance i gain in attending some meetings allows me to deal or not deal with some of the crap that gose on at my place of employment.

03-03-2007, 08:21 PM	#8 (permalink)
law47 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Selinsgrove,PA Posts: 60	This is an interesting topic for me to reply to. I recently relapsed on narcotics after 6 years of sobriety. I was dealing with chronic pain and ended up abusing pain meds. Fortunatly it didn't take me long to get honest about it. I have a good sponsor and I told her I was having trouble, before my life became too unmanagable. I got scared. I didn't have a hard time admitting it to the group that I relapsed the first time,but 6 months later I relapsed again. Its really hard for me to accept that I lost all that time. But I have been told I didn't loose it, I still have all those years I learned from. It takes a lot of humility to admit that I relapsed, but its much better then the consequenses that would follow if I continued to follow the path of destruction. I have today. I have to get rid of my pride and suck it up. I am just so grateful that my HP was with me and giving me that nudge. I'm trying to get back what I had before when I was working my program and going to meetings daily. I became complacent with my program. I'm just having a hard time with the willingness of late. I realize half measures avail us nothing. I feel like I go 3 steps forward and 2 steps back. If I don't go all the way into this simple program I will relapse again. So my plan is to go back to meeting on a daily basis again and start working the steps. I commited that to my sponsor today. Its good to be back to sober recovery. I haven't been on for several months. And I never posted on NA recovery before. I was told by my couselor that I should try going to an NA meeting too. My sponsor laughed at me when I told her my reply to him. I said NA isn't for me, those people are on street drugs. I guess thats the same as saying I'm not an alcoholic, they are people that walk the streets with a brown bag in their pocket. lol. I'm Lori and I am an alcoholic and drug addict.

03-04-2007, 11:22 AM	#9 (permalink)
REZ Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Chapel Hill, NC Posts: 987	I'm glad you're back. How did you approach your pain management problem? Did you talk to your sponsor about it before taking any narcotics? Did you let your doctors know about your situation?

03-04-2007, 02:20 PM	#10 (permalink)
law47 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Selinsgrove,PA Posts: 60	Hi Rez, Yes, I have talk to my sponsor about the narcotics. Of course she knew long before I relapsed that I was having problems taking the right amount. But just keeping that honesty with her was difficult, although I felt the guilt after I abused the meds for a few weeks and I did tell her. She said I had to start my recovery over. I knew she would tell me that, but I also knew I had to, its part of surrendering to the disease (Which I hate). I also changed doctors for insurance reasons. I called my sponsor right away and made the commitment to be totally honest with the doc. When I had my first appointment I told her everything. That was hard too. I had alot of second thoughts. Like, maybe I can tell her I'm in a lot of pain and she'll give me something strong. My HP was definetly with me. I keep praying that the obsession to use will be lifted. Prayer works because I want to use everytime I have pain. Its sucks sometimes. But when I work my program and go to lots of meetings I feel stronger. God also speaks to us when we listen, and we are silent. Did you know listen and silent have all the same letters. Pretty cool, huh?

03-05-2007, 10:37 AM	#11 (permalink)
REZ Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Chapel Hill, NC Posts: 987	Law47: I wish you the best. Stay clean, stay cool.

03-05-2007, 02:43 PM	#18 (permalink)
Live2Ride Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 33	GarryW: I admire you for your post and to me it represents integrity. Keep up the good fight!

03-05-2007, 08:48 PM	#20 (permalink)
Thundar301 A Dopeless Hope Fiend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MID-MICHIGAN Posts: 207	man good stuff here Hello family, sorry i haven't been on here in a while , busy trucking, just got bact from Waco TX to Baton Rouge LA to Dayton OH run. my this is a good tread subject to read for the 1st one coming home off the road , read a lot of good things here , you guys and gals rock , and I for one am glad to include you in my recovery whenever I can get here,thank you ALL. Now , that being said, I am of the belief that clean time and recovery are two seperate things totally, you can have recovery and clean time together, but you can also have just the clean time with out very much recovery. Once you use your clean time is over and a new beginning should be in order, why because there a section of your clean time fragmented, interupted so to speak, but don't let that keep you from finding your recovery, it is out there if you want to do the work for it. but if you need to do more research for yourself, by all means the lab is out there, get your coat on and find what your looking for , and when you come back in with arrows stuck in you all over from the scout mission you had to go on , we'll be there too, open arms, willing to share our recovery experince with you, but remember you don't have to go, ever, stay , get a cup of joe and cop a squat, stay a while, you might like a little of what you hear??? who knows "Once you make a decision, the universe conspires to make it happen"..Ralph W. Emerson

03-05-2007, 11:32 PM	#21 (permalink)
Gmoney Recovering Addict Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Around the way Posts: 1,596	As a member of NA, and one who is also well-versed on the literature, I feel a need to clarify that the quote referred to by Vic actually states, "mood-changing, mind-altering substance..." not chemical. Yet, I can see how some of us may get caught up in semantics and miss the big picture (chemical, shmemical, substance, smubstance). I mean, there are those who may quote an excerpt as a point of referrence AND be well aware of the "other parts of the Basic Text" and choose not to refer to them. I guess if one is looking to find fault or to critique...that's easy to do. NA also has literature that addresses members that are on prescribed medication (In Times of Illness) and the Basic Text even talks about medication being used for serious illness or surgery. My purpose for initiating this dialogue wasn't to question the clean time of members who have a legitimate reason for taking prescribed meds, nor did I intend to cause anyone to defend their need in this area. I, for one, had also been prescribed antidepressants in early recovery. I took them as directed - not to get high. To go in this direction is a big stretch from drinking beers, smoking weed, or picking up a prostitute and using crack. I believe it's only the fanatics that try to say that people who smoke cigarettes, eat chocolate, drink coffee that has caffeine in it, drink energy drinks, that masturbate, or do anything beyond their approval aren't "clean." Folks like that miss the whole point. If we really want to get fanatical...plain cold water can change a person's mood and alter their mind (many doctor's suggest it for headaches). As I said before...I don't see myself as an NA Purist. Commenting on something I recognize isn't a matter of worrying about those who are misguided or misinformed...and it's definitely not a matter of jealousy. That's another big stretch (some may call it empathy or consideration). Calling it as I see it has served me as an asset as well as a defect, but I prefer to stand for something as opposed to being wishy-washy and riding the fence. In case Vic missed it, the "root of the problem" is addiction and how it can deceive some of us into believing it's okay to get high as long as it's not our DOC or as long as we don't tell anybody our clean date has changed. The "bother" is that there may be those who will be misled by what gets posted here and die. If I can offer anything to prevent this, it certainly is worth trying. Members who are experienced in recovery have a responsibility to carry the message and not the mess. That's what it's all about...psychoanalysis is not required. Be blessed, GarryW. __________________ "One Promise, Many Rewards."