Reciting the lords prayer in an NA meeting

[yippeeciayay]

Is reciting the Lords prayer in the circle, as the group, against our Tradions in NA
how do you feel?

[windysan]

I was always uncomfortable with that stuff.

[Sugah]

I asked a group when I first came in. The response was: if that's what the group conscience wants to do, that's what they do.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[GlassPrisoner]

I don't have a problem with it.

If it's the God thing that bothers you, just remove God and Amen.

[Cynay]

But its an invatation....

Would all those that want to join us in the Lords prayer.

If it bothers you dont do it.

[mike_mass]

Depends on the group usually. I remember when I was first getting sober in th 90's, a lot of meetings in Rhode Island would only do the serenity prayer at the end.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by yippeeciayay

Is reciting the Lords prayer in the circle, as the group, against our Traditions in NA
how do you feel?

I have NEVER been to a NA Meeting that recites the Lord's Prayer. Most if not all start with the Serenity Prayer and all that I have ever went to either close with the same Serenity Prayer or the Third Step Prayer. I know that for me, I would not have to join in. NA is not a religious Program it is a Spiritual Program.

Now on the other hand I have been to a huge amount of AA Meetings and most of them end in the Lords Prayer.

[Time2Surrender]

What Vic said. And Ive been to a couple meetings.

[yippeeciayay]

Is reciting the Lords prayer in the circle, for the "group", a violation of NATradions
how do you feel?

By the way, i have.
not very often, yet, it has happened

[Chance]

Originally Posted by yippeeciayay

Is reciting the Lords prayer in the circle, for the "group", a violation of NATradions
how do you feel?

By the way, i have.
not very often, yet, it has happened

OK now you are asking for opinions. I believe in my own opinion that this is in viooation of the the steps I would know that. But as far as the traditions, well I don't see anything where it would viloate it except in tradition that we have no opinion on outside issues however I haven't done any studying on it yet. I will now that you have brought this up. However in the steps especially step 3 is where I would wonder. That is my 2 cents for now until I look into it more.

Love Vic

[yippeeciayay]

ok heres where im coming from and i'll make it as shortly paraphrased as possible.
i was talking with an addict some time ago who liked the idea of the lords prayer, and i said, "dont you think that would be a violation
of NA's trads", and he said, "we have autonomy".
i said, yes, as along as it doesnt affect NA as a whole, and said dont you think if someone who had a bad experience
in an organized religious setting would find it hard to come into NA, thus, going outside and tell the world we are
hypocrits and say we preach religious ideals.
or wouldnt it be problematic to a Hindu or Jew or Buddhist or Muslim or atheist or agnostic…
he said, ah bull, get over it.
so i asked him about trad 6 and doesnt this seem like an implied endorsement, and how bout unity,
trad 1,does it affect that.
like you said lucky, "I would not have to join in", how unifying is that.
and what about 10, could it be an outside issue.
WS wont take a stand on the matter, playing both side of the fence.
they would rather say autonomy, but if it causes problems dont. Well, is that a yes or a no?
i gaurentee you there will sooner or later always be problems with it.
so anyway, i thought, why not ask the addict how the god of your understanding expresses ___self
rather than on personal opinion. trad 2


In Narcotics Anonymous, we rely on a loving God as He expresses
Himself in our group conscience, rather than on personal opinion or ego.

i'm really just curious if im off base.

[Chance]

Like I said before in my last post I think that it could be in violation of the 10th Tradition. "We have no opinion on outside issues. The thing about all of this, is that I think about the concepts especially #6. I know that most addicts have had or still do have a hard time with organized religion, I for one.

I went to college to be a minister and during the last 5 years of struggling with my clean time, this time I have changed for the better I hope. I am open to all ideas, however, religion has no place in NA that is my opinion. I think that for me, I have almost 8 months of being clean this time, I have not hurried and ran to church! Is a matter of fact I have not gone! Why, because I figure that all the other times I have gone gun ho on the religion part and my spirituality sucked to say the least. I think that things are happening today for me that have never happened before. I thank my HP and today I don't even have to identify it.

One thing also in our literature it says that "lack of religion" that is huge for me. Still haven't done any studying but I think I might send of a email to NAWS concerning this topic.

Love Vic

[yippeeciayay]

I have almost 8 months of being clean this time,

congrats Vic, keep it up

[Inspiringmind]

I wouldn't like it. Now I was going to a women's recovery meeting and they always said the Lord's Prayer at the end. This is women from both NA and AA. Both are supposed to be spiritual programs, not religious, so I won't go anymore.

[REZ]

When I got clean in 1984, all the NA and AA meetings I went to closed with the Lord's Prayer. NA meetings started to use the Serenity Prayer only in the 1990s. Though I am a Christian, I do not feel that it is appropriate to use this prayer in an NA or AA meeting. NA/AA are spiritual, not religious programs.

[daydream]

I've heard many in AA argue that the steps came from the bible, so there's shouldn't be any problem with saying the lord's prayer. I respectfully disagree. Many groups ask that people NOT read from outside literature. They even go so far as asking people to NOT start quoting scripture in a meeting. Then at the end of the meeting, they turn around and ask those same people to participate in reciting scripture from the bible to close the meeting. I believe this violates several traditions, promoting endorsement of the bible, possibly appearing allied with the church meetings are held at, and certainly appearing religious, choosing bible-based religion at that. And as for people making a choice to not participate, that's not cool either. Just about every meeting I've ever been in, they ask to circle up and close. It isn't until someone is called on to lead the prayer that he/she announces what prayer will be used. Either people would stay in the circle and feel negatively about it, or they would leave the circle and not be able to participate. Controversy would certainly follow. It's fine with me if people like the lord's prayer, but it does not belong in 12 step meetings. First and foremost, I believe we should consider the impact on those newcomers who walk in and hear us chanting bible verses. I have no doubt that many would run before we had a chance to try and explain to them "this isn't how it looks". We should leave religion and bible out of it.

[Recoveree]

Originally Posted by yippeeciayay

Is reciting the Lords prayer in the circle, as the group, against our Tradions in NA
how do you feel?

Yes it is .

In case anyone is wondering if it really is a religious prayer....

The Lord's Prayer The Prayer Jesus Taught Us

by Victor Hoagland, C.P.
based on the New Catholic Catechism 2759-2865
"Teach us how to pray," the disciples said to Jesus. (Luke 11, 1) He answered by teaching them the prayer we call the Our Father or The Lord's Prayer.

The Lord's Prayer is a basic Christian prayer. As a model of prayer, every Christian learns it by heart. It appears everywhere in the church's life: in its liturgy and sacraments, in public and private prayer. It 's a prayer Christians treasure.

Though we memorize it as a set formula, the Lord's Prayer shouldn't be repeated mechanically or without thought. Its purpose is to awaken and stimulate our faith. Through this prayer Jesus invites us to approach God as Father. Indeed, the Lord's Prayer has been called a summary of the gospel.

Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.

When Moses approached God on Mount Sinai, he heard a voice saying, "Do not come near; put off your shoes from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground." An infinite chasm separates us from the transcendent God.

In the Lord's Prayer, Jesus invites us to draw near to God who is beyond human understanding, who dwells in mystery, who is all holy. We can call God "our Father".

Calling God "Father" does not mean that God is masculine. God is beyond the categories of gender, of masculine or feminine. None of our descriptions of God is adequate. God, who is "in heaven", whose name is holy, cannot be fully known by us.

By calling God "Father" we are more rightly describing ourselves and our relationship with God. Jesus teaches that we have a filial relationship with God; God sees us as if we were a daughter or a son. And we, on our part, can approach God in the familiar confident way a child approaches a loving parent. What is more, we approach God through God's only Son, Jesus Christ, who unites us to himself .

Thy Kingdom come,
thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.

God's kingdom. Jesus often said that God's power would appear and renew all creation. God like a mighty king would rule over the earth according to a plan that unfolds from the beginning of the world. God's kingdom would be marked by peace and justice. Good would be rewarded and evil punished. The kingdom, according to Jesus, is not far off, but already present in our midst, though not yet revealed.

In the Lord's prayer we pray that God's kingdom come, that God's will, which is for our good, be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread.

We are God's children. What can be more childlike than this petition in which we pray for our daily bread, a word that describes all those physical, human and spiritual gifts we need to live. With the confidence of children we say: "Give us this day what we need."

Forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.

This petition of the Lord's Prayer is a demanding one. Not only do we ask God's forgiveness for our daily offenses, but we link God's forgiveness of us with our forgiveness of others. Forgiving others is not always easy to do. We need God's help to do it. But it must be done or we ourselves cannot receive God's mercy.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.

Life is not easy. It is a daily battle. Trials like sickness and failure can crush our spirits. False values and easy promises can entice us and even destroy our souls. And so we ask God to keep us from failing when we are tested, to help us to know the right thing to do, to deliver us from the evil which awaits us in life.

The Lord's Prayer sums up the teaching of Jesus. It is also a prayer that offers the grace of Jesus: his reverence for God, his childlike confidence in his Father, and his power to go bravely through life no matter what comes. When we pray his prayer, his spirit becomes our own.




Our Father, who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
and the power,
and the glory,
for ever and ever.
Amen.

[Recoveree]

Originally Posted by yippeeciayay

Is reciting the Lords prayer in the circle, as the group, against our Tradions in NA
how do you feel?

you might want to look at this thread....the same question was discussed at length here a few years ago....LOTS OF GOOD REPLIES

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...t=lords+prayer (The Lord's Prayer?)

[Time2Surrender]

Ive heard it at plenty of AA meetings, but I dont think I have at an NA meeting. Around here its at pretty much every AA meeting. Back when I still did AA and someone asked me to take us out. I would always say................."Who's seen us drunk and naked?" Then the group would join in "Our Father who art in Heaven......................

[Blake]

I have only been to one NA meeting that closed with the lords prayer and it made me very very uncomfortable.

NA is not a religious program so it is best to keep the religion out of it (now personally religion may play a big part of some people's programs, but that is a personal thing and should be kept as such)

I talked to the chairperson after the meeting about it and he said that the group had voted on it, so I asked him how he would feel if he went to a meeting that closed with everyone asked to join in a muslim salaat? Or how about the jewish waking prayer?

He kinda missed my point, but that was alright, I said my peace and moved on.

THe serenity prayer is pretty non specific and can be adapted to most any individuals belief system...the 3rd step pray comes from our literature...why would it be nessecary to go elsewhere to close a meeting other than to promote one's personal religious agenda?

[lucyo]

Originally Posted by yippeeciayay

so i asked him about trad 6 and doesnt this seem like an implied endorsement,

its a religious prayer, from the bible.

why would we not allow readings/literature in our meetings from other fellowships, yet allow a prayer from the bible in the meetings?

some quotes from the essay on tradition 6 in the basic text...

--------------------------
"The first thing a group ought never do is endorse. To endorse is to sanction, approve or recommend. Endorsements can be either direct or implied. We see direct endorsements everyday in T.V. commercials. An implied endorsement is one that is not specifically stated....

...This Tradition also tells us "who".

... An outside enterprise is any agency, business venture, religion, society, organization, related activity, or any other fellowship. Most of these are easy to identify, except for the other fellowships. Narcotics Anonymous is a separate and distinct fellowship in its own right. Our problem is addiction. The other Twelve Step fellowships specialize in other problems, and our relationship with them is one of "cooperation, not affiliation". The use of literature, speakers, and announcements of other fellowships in our meetings constitutes an implied endorsement of an outside enterprise. "

----------------------
Ok, now that last sentence says specifically "fellowships" but personally I believe that's the only one it mentions in that sentence, because it says earlier "Most of these are easy to identify, except for the other fellowships."

to me its common sense that the lord's prayer is religious and is an implied endorsement of the religion, christianity.

btw: i'm christian and have worked in the church i work for now for over 20 years, and have worked in other churches for a number of years before this one.

[Emmet Wolf]

Only NA meeting I go to uses 3rd step prayer to close, not Lord's Prayer.

But I also go to AA meetings that close with Lord's Prayer.

NA Literaure appeals to me a lot because it acknowledges "religion" as "one of the things we had tried to get off drugs that DIDN'T WORK". This is significant for me personally, as I went thru late 60's/early70's drug scene - then "tried" with Jesus Freak Movement in early 70's -- with no permanent change regarding drug use.

AA Big Book seems geared toward convincing an agnostic that there is a God, NA Basic Text seems more like "we know some of us tried religion as a cure but it failed"; so for me the NA Basic Text strikes more at home personally in that particular aspect.

Also, the NA book is simply more "modern" in its language and style and content.