subject: Rehabilitate not Incarcerate - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

CAPTAINZING2000 · 12-09-2006, 10:48 PM

subject: Rehabilitate not Incarcerate

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Tough sentencing laws, record numbers of drug offenders and high crime rates have contributed to the United States having the largest prison population and the highest rate of incarceration in the world, according to criminal justice experts.

A U.S. Justice Department report released on November 30 showed that a record 7 million people -- or one in every 32 American adults -- were behind bars, on probation or on parole at the end of last year. Of the total, 2.2 million were in prison or jail.

According to the International Center for Prison Studies at King's College in London, more people are behind bars in the United States than in any other country. China ranks second with 1.5 million prisoners, followed by Russia with 870,000.

The U.S. incarceration rate of 737 per 100,000 people in the highest, followed by 611 in Russia and 547 for St. Kitts and Nevis. In contrast, the incarceration rates in many Western industrial nations range around 100 per 100,000 people.

Groups advocating reform of U.S. sentencing laws seized on the latest U.S. prison population figures showing admissions of inmates have been rising even faster than the numbers of prisoners who have been released.

"The United States has 5 percent of the world's population and 25 percent of the world's incarcerated population. We rank first in the world in locking up our fellow citizens," said Ethan Nadelmann of the Drug Policy Alliance, which supports alternatives in the war on drugs.

"We now imprison more people for drug law violations than all of western Europe, with a much larger population, incarcerates for all offenses."

Ryan King, a policy analyst at The Sentencing Project, a group advocating sentencing reform, said the United States has a more punitive criminal justice system than other countries.

MORE PEOPLE TO PRISON

"We send more people to prison, for more different offenses, for longer periods of time than anybody else," he said.

Drug offenders account for about 2 million of the 7 million in prison, on probation or parole, King said, adding that other countries often stress treatment instead of incarceration.

Commenting on what the prison figures show about U.S. society, King said various social programs, including those dealing with education, poverty, urban development, health care and child care, have failed.

"There are a number of social programs we have failed to deliver. There are systemic failures going on," he said. "A lot of these people then end up in the criminal justice system."

Kent Scheidegger, legal director of the Criminal Justice Legal Foundation in California, said the high prison numbers represented a proper response to the crime problem in the United States. Locking up more criminals has contributed to lower crime rates, he said.

"The hand-wringing over the incarceration rate is missing the mark," he said.

Scheidegger said the high prison population reflected cultural differences, with the United States having far higher crimes rates than European nations or Japan. "We have more crime. More crime gets you more prisoners."

Julie Stewart, president of the group Families Against Mandatory Minimums, cited the Justice Department report and said drug offenders are clogging the U.S. justice system.

"Why are so many people in prison? Blame mandatory sentencing laws and the record number of nonviolent drug offenders subject to them," she said.

logo · 12-09-2006, 11:51 PM

Someday the United States is going to recognize addiction as a disease and not a moral issue. In the UK the people finally stood up and said we will no longer treat our sick people (addicts) as criminals. If you want to do heroin we (the Uk) will give it to you for free (under controlled conditions). If you want treatment we (the UK) will give you the best there is for free. The new Soboxone detox drug that we (the US) now have is a 20 year old drug mostly used in the UK for pain and is dirt cheap. In the last few years it has been sent back to the US (under a new name) as the wonder drug for detox. Some doctors are allowed to detox patients with it. It cost me $1000.00 to detox using this drug. 60-8mg tablets cost me $425. This is just another way for the drug companys and doctors to make millions on this drug and the drug companies did not even have to do any research and development on it. Sorry they did have to add an opiate blocker to make Suboxone (no big deal adding opiate blocker). If a person with no money or insurance wants treatment well good luck most free treatment has at least a 6 month waiting list. If you have insurance a person can get about 4 days of treatment then they will have to pay a deductible. If a person has money and plenty of it the sky is the limit on treatment. If there are so many Addicts and Alcoholics in the United States we should stand up as a whole and demand better treatment (as in drug and alcohol treatment) for people afflicted with this disease. We should demand it (addiction) be classified as a disease. All the people that you see selling drugs on the street corners are being blamed for being a major part of the drug problem. They don't own any boats or planes they are not flying and floating drugs into this country. Most major money drug deals are being financed by big money people in this country. What can we do about it? I don't know you tell me. Everything I have said is just my opinion. This is just how I feel about it.

windysan · 12-10-2006, 05:53 AM

all dope should be legal

**historyteach** · 12-10-2006, 06:06 AM

I don't agree that dope should be legal. *Some* people don't try it just because it is illegal. So, *some* people are saved from the surge and pain of addiction as a result.
But, I DO think that treatment should be free and easily accessable. To everyone, regardless of insurance or ability to pay.
They system we have now is a JOKE!
And an expensive one at that!

Shalom!

BSPGirl · 12-10-2006, 08:26 AM

Quote:

all dope should be legal

Agreed. Alcohol is legal too. Treatment for addictions should be easily accesible, yes, but not only the 12 step based treatment.

Marte

windysan · 12-10-2006, 08:35 AM

I'm for legalization totally. Get the thugs out of the dope business.

Butt I'm one of those Libertarian freaks.

Arura · 12-10-2006, 08:59 AM

As a Brit...on subutex ....and Know the Histroy of this drug ,..Well ...!!!

I as an Addict am Very Greatful that i can Find the Help if you NEED it .!

Yes i agree it Very abusable ,...and i Dislike the Dr as useing ME as a 'gueine pig' as thats what we are over here ,!!!....I
f you carnt afford Private and you want out .....were do you go...?
Back out .!
Here at least we CAN get the Help ,..Im detoxing from Subutex ,...and it's 'No mirical drug' for damn sure ...! .......Yes it works IF, you want it to ...!!!

Also the Drs here will push anything at you all the time ....If i did'nt want to be OFF drugs i would'nt be 2years Methadone free ...

As they keep you on it for the Never, never ,...'Mantiance to death' ....while they get back hander from the companys that sell them ....!!!

Thats how they treat Addicts here as 'Guine pigs' for Dogdy pills ect,ect. !

Im Off now

Sorry...!

I remeber the Day i got my Frist Methdone script at 15/16 ...!!!

and the raw relife of NOT HAVEIN to go back out there n ..!?!..Some money was memroble to say the least ...!
So Im grateful for the NHS ,...No matter how bad they are as EVERYONE should get FREE Medical help,...EVERYONE should have acssess to that type of Help....!
Not All of us have money ,...I begged for my drugs early on in my useing ..so thats at ........15/16 ...I was begging for drugs Homless....!

:sweat: Sorry ..!

I carnt Stand the Thought of NOT having acssess to such help ...Like has been said So Many times 'It cost me this much to Get Clean"

Disguting ...EVERYONE...need's to be able to have acssess 'FREE' health care ...JMHO...!

and Subtux/Suboxone is not cheap for the Drs either as Ive asked ...over here.!

It does really hit me that in the US you ALL have to PAY TO SAVE YOUR LIVES.....?????

Abouslety INSANE...!

From:British piont of veiw on this issue 'Who is a Skint'...!
ps.
Sorry to go on but it gets me that you in the US,... have to pay to save your life ...WRONG,.Wrong ........!!!

JMO...!

logo · 12-10-2006, 12:01 PM

Arura: What is the NHS and what is a Skin't?

Arura · 12-10-2006, 12:07 PM

Google it ...!

Natianal Heath service ...!

'Skint' = £000000000

.......LOL....!.
What do you reckon ....?
'EVERYONE' should have Acssess to FREE health care ..Its a mess ,...Serious but its there Still just ...!

Were is OUR TAX GOING.......?

Oh No dont get me on to Tony Bluuuuuurrrrrrrrrreeerrrrr....!

and Im a Green ...Libral .!

Lady_Blue · 12-10-2006, 12:20 PM

Arura, You were on methadone before the sub?

Arura · 12-10-2006, 12:47 PM

(((((((((Capp'y)))))))) Sorry ....!!!

....?

...xXx...

Cecilia · 12-10-2006, 01:19 PM

Before Elvis went in the pokey I was clueless. I have since gotten an education.

Since Elvis went in I have seen the same people come back 4 and 5 times. Even I can see that prison isnt working. Ive seen one man that has 12 numbers. These people need treatment. If they knew how to act they wouldnt be here in the first place.

Another thing Ive noticed is that a lot of these men have learning diabilities. Quite a few of them cant read or write. They want the "good life" but they dont have the skillls so they steal and sell drugs.

Also when these people are sent to prison they lose what little they have. House, family, car. Gone. So they go back to what they know. An when they get out they have a record and lots of people dont like to hire felons.

THis is just my opinion. I think we spend way too much money on prisons and too little on treatment and restitution. I dont like mandatory sentences. Without the possibility of parole theres no incentive to participate in the GED programs and other programs offered.

Id ike to see people given a chance to go to treatment and get their act together. Then if you screw up in you go. Some will fail but lets give the ones who can make it a chance. Besides its cheaper in the long run. Do you know how much money it costs to keep someone in prison . $30,000+ per year.

CAPTAINZING2000 · 12-15-2006, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arura

(((((((((Capp'y)))))))) Sorry ....!!!

....?

...xXx...

NO WORRY'S HERE!!

Arura · 12-15-2006, 11:16 PM

Much Respect for you (((Cappy))))...

Thank You ...

...xXx...

***Time2Surrender*** · 12-16-2006, 01:11 PM

Its time to take the so called "War on drugs" to the next level. I say declare all out war on drug manufactuers. Too a much bigger level than we do now. Just like we are going after terrorists I say go after drug manufactuers worldwide. If Columbia and these other countrys cant stop it, send the forces in to destroy all poppie fields, cocoa fields, etc. and "terminate" anyone who is participating in the manufacturing of illegal drugs. Drug smugglers at the border? Shoot em on site.

Arura · 12-16-2006, 04:15 PM

Some Guy Came up with a Fungiside for the Opium poopy ,..and Clombia said NO
Kashmir said NO...!

and they...?

Threatned to crop dust them...with this poison to kill the crops ,...!

The flip side is that the Goverment's Mafia in Kashmir Give more money to growers of the poppy crops or coco ,...well thats more you area I Think,...!

So these Villiagers Need to grow the Crops to survive ,..Or get Hassle from local Melishia,....All true ,...as I Have Travelled and read n seen just how Corupt the 3rd world is ,...and All they want is to Survive n drive a car n eat,. live a life ... These are Small Villages Up in the Himalya's Were you Have to fly in or Horse back ...!

and they need the Cash ,...

Goverments Kill people Wantanly,..Openly and it is there for All to see but they turn a Blind eye Because of MONEY...Power blind they dont see the people anymore .....!

Hope that Made sensnce as ive read abit about this Crop dustin...thing ..!

JMHO...!

Dont Beat me up please ...xXx...

mikiglen · 12-16-2006, 05:47 PM

i'm real torn on this subject. i know that being a three time felon and addict, i was grateful to be given the opportunity for court mandated treatment and stayed sober for nine years afterwards.
HOWEVER, my ex went through that same program TWICE, then was sent to prison, then continued to use, and is currently running from the law again, this time for a felony committed against my children and i.
i really think each case should be considered individually, along with a person's criminal background.
as for my ex, i was for treatment until the jail accidentally (go figure) released him and he cut a hose on my car.
now, i will fight all the way to see that deal UNcut, and see him put away.
for awhile, i could say the things he did were not him, but his addiction. however, so much has happened now, i think he has completely lost the person he once was. i don't know if he could be rehabilitated.
i know that's cold coming from an addict, and as i am typing this, i am expecting to get "blasted", but that's just my feelings

windysan · 12-16-2006, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Time2Surrender

Its time to take the so called "War on drugs" to the next level. I say declare all out war on drug manufactuers. Too a much bigger level than we do now. Just like we are going after terrorists I say go after drug manufactuers worldwide. If Columbia and these other countrys cant stop it, send the forces in to destroy all poppie fields, cocoa fields, etc. and "terminate" anyone who is participating in the manufacturing of illegal drugs. Drug smugglers at the border? Shoot em on site.

you really think that?

dang

logo · 12-16-2006, 11:38 PM

There is no War on Drugs here in the U.S.. If there really was a war on drugs there would not be any drugs on the streets. There is a war in the streets and a war in the middle east how about a war on poverty. Because I'm 'skint'.

logo · 12-17-2006, 12:31 AM

Look below to see how I really feel about it all.

CAPTAINZING2000 · 12-17-2006, 12:32 AM

Kind of ticks me off the way doctors dole out meds like candy any more.

Seems like every woman I work with is on some meds for nerves. Seems to me, they should try other methods to reduce stress instead of taking a pill !!

12-09-2006, 10:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
CAPTAINZING2000 ZING Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: ILLINOIS Posts: 5,332	subject: Rehabilitate not Incarcerate subject: Rehabilitate not Incarcerate WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Tough sentencing laws, record numbers of drug offenders and high crime rates have contributed to the United States having the largest prison population and the highest rate of incarceration in the world, according to criminal justice experts. A U.S. Justice Department report released on November 30 showed that a record 7 million people -- or one in every 32 American adults -- were behind bars, on probation or on parole at the end of last year. Of the total, 2.2 million were in prison or jail. According to the International Center for Prison Studies at King's College in London, more people are behind bars in the United States than in any other country. China ranks second with 1.5 million prisoners, followed by Russia with 870,000. The U.S. incarceration rate of 737 per 100,000 people in the highest, followed by 611 in Russia and 547 for St. Kitts and Nevis. In contrast, the incarceration rates in many Western industrial nations range around 100 per 100,000 people. Groups advocating reform of U.S. sentencing laws seized on the latest U.S. prison population figures showing admissions of inmates have been rising even faster than the numbers of prisoners who have been released. "The United States has 5 percent of the world's population and 25 percent of the world's incarcerated population. We rank first in the world in locking up our fellow citizens," said Ethan Nadelmann of the Drug Policy Alliance, which supports alternatives in the war on drugs. "We now imprison more people for drug law violations than all of western Europe, with a much larger population, incarcerates for all offenses." Ryan King, a policy analyst at The Sentencing Project, a group advocating sentencing reform, said the United States has a more punitive criminal justice system than other countries. MORE PEOPLE TO PRISON "We send more people to prison, for more different offenses, for longer periods of time than anybody else," he said. Drug offenders account for about 2 million of the 7 million in prison, on probation or parole, King said, adding that other countries often stress treatment instead of incarceration. Commenting on what the prison figures show about U.S. society, King said various social programs, including those dealing with education, poverty, urban development, health care and child care, have failed. "There are a number of social programs we have failed to deliver. There are systemic failures going on," he said. "A lot of these people then end up in the criminal justice system." Kent Scheidegger, legal director of the Criminal Justice Legal Foundation in California, said the high prison numbers represented a proper response to the crime problem in the United States. Locking up more criminals has contributed to lower crime rates, he said. "The hand-wringing over the incarceration rate is missing the mark," he said. Scheidegger said the high prison population reflected cultural differences, with the United States having far higher crimes rates than European nations or Japan. "We have more crime. More crime gets you more prisoners." Julie Stewart, president of the group Families Against Mandatory Minimums, cited the Justice Department report and said drug offenders are clogging the U.S. justice system. "Why are so many people in prison? Blame mandatory sentencing laws and the record number of nonviolent drug offenders subject to them," she said. __________________ LIFE IS GOD'S GIFT TO YOU WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR LIFE IS YOUR GIFT TO GOD

12-09-2006, 11:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
logo NAIOU Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Last house on the block. Posts: 175	Just My Opinion Someday the United States is going to recognize addiction as a disease and not a moral issue. In the UK the people finally stood up and said we will no longer treat our sick people (addicts) as criminals. If you want to do heroin we (the Uk) will give it to you for free (under controlled conditions). If you want treatment we (the UK) will give you the best there is for free. The new Soboxone detox drug that we (the US) now have is a 20 year old drug mostly used in the UK for pain and is dirt cheap. In the last few years it has been sent back to the US (under a new name) as the wonder drug for detox. Some doctors are allowed to detox patients with it. It cost me $1000.00 to detox using this drug. 60-8mg tablets cost me $425. This is just another way for the drug companys and doctors to make millions on this drug and the drug companies did not even have to do any research and development on it. Sorry they did have to add an opiate blocker to make Suboxone (no big deal adding opiate blocker). If a person with no money or insurance wants treatment well good luck most free treatment has at least a 6 month waiting list. If you have insurance a person can get about 4 days of treatment then they will have to pay a deductible. If a person has money and plenty of it the sky is the limit on treatment. If there are so many Addicts and Alcoholics in the United States we should stand up as a whole and demand better treatment (as in drug and alcohol treatment) for people afflicted with this disease. We should demand it (addiction) be classified as a disease. All the people that you see selling drugs on the street corners are being blamed for being a major part of the drug problem. They don't own any boats or planes they are not flying and floating drugs into this country. Most major money drug deals are being financed by big money people in this country. What can we do about it? I don't know you tell me. Everything I have said is just my opinion. This is just how I feel about it. __________________ The Message Is Hope. The Promise Is Freedom.

12-10-2006, 06:06 AM	#4 (permalink)
historyteach To Life! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: centered again Posts: 8,071	I don't agree that dope should be legal. Some people don't try it just because it is illegal. So, some people are saved from the surge and pain of addiction as a result. But, I DO think that treatment should be free and easily accessable. To everyone, regardless of insurance or ability to pay. They system we have now is a JOKE! And an expensive one at that! Shalom! __________________

12-10-2006, 08:59 AM	#7 (permalink)
Arura Trying to do the right thing. Join Date: May 2006 Location: London Posts: 4,354	As a Brit...on subutex ....and Know the Histroy of this drug ,..Well ...!!! I as an Addict am Very Greatful that i can Find the Help if you NEED it .! Yes i agree it Very abusable ,...and i Dislike the Dr as useing ME as a 'gueine pig' as thats what we are over here ,!!!....I f you carnt afford Private and you want out .....were do you go...? Back out .! Here at least we CAN get the Help ,..Im detoxing from Subutex ,...and it's 'No mirical drug' for damn sure ...! .......Yes it works IF, you want it to ...!!! Also the Drs here will push anything at you all the time ....If i did'nt want to be OFF drugs i would'nt be 2years Methadone free ... As they keep you on it for the Never, never ,...'Mantiance to death' ....while they get back hander from the companys that sell them ....!!! Thats how they treat Addicts here as 'Guine pigs' for Dogdy pills ect,ect. ! Im Off now Sorry...! I remeber the Day i got my Frist Methdone script at 15/16 ...!!! and the raw relife of NOT HAVEIN to go back out there n ..!?!..Some money was memroble to say the least ...! So Im grateful for the NHS ,...No matter how bad they are as EVERYONE should get FREE Medical help,...EVERYONE should have acssess to that type of Help....! Not All of us have money ,...I begged for my drugs early on in my useing ..so thats at ........15/16 ...I was begging for drugs Homless....! :sweat: Sorry ..! I carnt Stand the Thought of NOT having acssess to such help ...Like has been said So Many times 'It cost me this much to Get Clean" Disguting ...EVERYONE...need's to be able to have acssess 'FREE' health care ...JMHO...! and Subtux/Suboxone is not cheap for the Drs either as Ive asked ...over here.! It does really hit me that in the US you ALL have to PAY TO SAVE YOUR LIVES.....????? Abouslety INSANE...! From:British piont of veiw on this issue 'Who is a Skint'...! ps. Sorry to go on but it gets me that you in the US,... have to pay to save your life ...WRONG,.Wrong ........!!! JMO...! __________________ Weve come along way and were Changing day by day We DO Recover. We can Recover...!

12-10-2006, 12:01 PM	#8 (permalink)
logo NAIOU Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Last house on the block. Posts: 175	Arura: What is the NHS and what is a Skin't? __________________ The Message Is Hope. The Promise Is Freedom.

12-10-2006, 05:53 AM	#3 (permalink)
windysan Large Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: La Posts: 3,547	all dope should be legal

12-10-2006, 08:35 AM	#6 (permalink)
windysan Large Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: La Posts: 3,547	I'm for legalization totally. Get the thugs out of the dope business. Butt I'm one of those Libertarian freaks.

12-10-2006, 12:07 PM	#9 (permalink)
Arura Trying to do the right thing. Join Date: May 2006 Location: London Posts: 4,354	Google it ...! Natianal Heath service ...! 'Skint' = £000000000 .......LOL....!. What do you reckon ....? 'EVERYONE' should have Acssess to FREE health care ..Its a mess ,...Serious but its there Still just ...! Were is OUR TAX GOING.......? Oh No dont get me on to Tony Bluuuuuurrrrrrrrrreeerrrrr....! and Im a Green ...Libral .! __________________ Weve come along way and were Changing day by day We DO Recover. We can Recover...!

12-10-2006, 12:20 PM	#10 (permalink)
Lady_Blue Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: state of confusion.. Posts: 353	Arura, You were on methadone before the sub? __________________ "Sorry is looking back. Worry is looking around. Faith, my friend; is looking up." May you always have Love to Share , Health to Spare, and Friends that Care Peace! lala Smiles, LadyBlue

12-10-2006, 12:47 PM	#11 (permalink)
Arura Trying to do the right thing. Join Date: May 2006 Location: London Posts: 4,354	(((((((((Capp'y)))))))) Sorry ....!!! ....? ...xXx... __________________ Weve come along way and were Changing day by day We DO Recover. We can Recover...!

12-10-2006, 01:19 PM	#12 (permalink)
Cecilia Midwestrn RedHeaded Codie Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: In a hand basket. Posts: 412	Before Elvis went in the pokey I was clueless. I have since gotten an education. Since Elvis went in I have seen the same people come back 4 and 5 times. Even I can see that prison isnt working. Ive seen one man that has 12 numbers. These people need treatment. If they knew how to act they wouldnt be here in the first place. Another thing Ive noticed is that a lot of these men have learning diabilities. Quite a few of them cant read or write. They want the "good life" but they dont have the skillls so they steal and sell drugs. Also when these people are sent to prison they lose what little they have. House, family, car. Gone. So they go back to what they know. An when they get out they have a record and lots of people dont like to hire felons. THis is just my opinion. I think we spend way too much money on prisons and too little on treatment and restitution. I dont like mandatory sentences. Without the possibility of parole theres no incentive to participate in the GED programs and other programs offered. Id ike to see people given a chance to go to treatment and get their act together. Then if you screw up in you go. Some will fail but lets give the ones who can make it a chance. Besides its cheaper in the long run. Do you know how much money it costs to keep someone in prison . $30,000+ per year. __________________ .............................. ============================== .............................. Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket? I am the Queen. Why? Because my pantyhose say so. Buckle up. It makes it harder for the aliens to snatch you from your car. If you drink like a fish. Drink what a fish drinks. If all is not lost, where is it. I only do what my Rice Crispies tell me to do. If I has two dead mice, Id give you one. Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig. Everything is okay in the end. If its not, then its not the end. You cant have everything. Where would you put it. If you dont want cat hair on your clothes then stay off the furniture.

12-15-2006, 11:16 PM	#14 (permalink)
Arura Trying to do the right thing. Join Date: May 2006 Location: London Posts: 4,354	Much Respect for you (((Cappy))))... Thank You ... ...xXx... __________________ Weve come along way and were Changing day by day We DO Recover. We can Recover...!

12-16-2006, 01:11 PM	#15 (permalink)
*Time2Surrender* Community Greeter Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hillsboro,Oregon Soon to be Washington State Posts: 6,335 Blog Entries: 3	Its time to take the so called "War on drugs" to the next level. I say declare all out war on drug manufactuers. Too a much bigger level than we do now. Just like we are going after terrorists I say go after drug manufactuers worldwide. If Columbia and these other countrys cant stop it, send the forces in to destroy all poppie fields, cocoa fields, etc. and "terminate" anyone who is participating in the manufacturing of illegal drugs. Drug smugglers at the border? Shoot em on site. __________________ "Jack and Diane" painted a picture of my life and my dreams, Suddenly this crazy world made more sense to me Well I heard it today and I couldn't help but sing along Cause everytime I hear that song... Last edited by Time2Surrender; 12-16-2006 at 01:31 PM.

12-16-2006, 04:15 PM	#16 (permalink)
Arura Trying to do the right thing. Join Date: May 2006 Location: London Posts: 4,354	Some Guy Came up with a Fungiside for the Opium poopy ,..and Clombia said NO Kashmir said NO...! and they...? Threatned to crop dust them...with this poison to kill the crops ,...! The flip side is that the Goverment's Mafia in Kashmir Give more money to growers of the poppy crops or coco ,...well thats more you area I Think,...! So these Villiagers Need to grow the Crops to survive ,..Or get Hassle from local Melishia,....All true ,...as I Have Travelled and read n seen just how Corupt the 3rd world is ,...and All they want is to Survive n drive a car n eat,. live a life ... These are Small Villages Up in the Himalya's Were you Have to fly in or Horse back ...! and they need the Cash ,... Goverments Kill people Wantanly,..Openly and it is there for All to see but they turn a Blind eye Because of MONEY...Power blind they dont see the people anymore .....! Hope that Made sensnce as ive read abit about this Crop dustin...thing ..! JMHO...! Dont Beat me up please ...xXx... __________________ Weve come along way and were Changing day by day We DO Recover. We can Recover...!

12-16-2006, 05:47 PM	#17 (permalink)
mikiglen Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: here, there, everywhere Posts: 2,122	i'm real torn on this subject. i know that being a three time felon and addict, i was grateful to be given the opportunity for court mandated treatment and stayed sober for nine years afterwards. HOWEVER, my ex went through that same program TWICE, then was sent to prison, then continued to use, and is currently running from the law again, this time for a felony committed against my children and i. i really think each case should be considered individually, along with a person's criminal background. as for my ex, i was for treatment until the jail accidentally (go figure) released him and he cut a hose on my car. now, i will fight all the way to see that deal UNcut, and see him put away. for awhile, i could say the things he did were not him, but his addiction. however, so much has happened now, i think he has completely lost the person he once was. i don't know if he could be rehabilitated. i know that's cold coming from an addict, and as i am typing this, i am expecting to get "blasted", but that's just my feelings __________________ Now and again we try To just stay alive Maybe we'll turn it all around 'Cause it's not too late It's never too late

12-16-2006, 11:38 PM	#19 (permalink)
logo NAIOU Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Last house on the block. Posts: 175	There is no War on Drugs here in the U.S.. If there really was a war on drugs there would not be any drugs on the streets. There is a war in the streets and a war in the middle east how about a war on poverty. Because I'm 'skint'. __________________ The Message Is Hope. The Promise Is Freedom.

12-17-2006, 12:32 AM	#21 (permalink)
CAPTAINZING2000 ZING Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: ILLINOIS Posts: 5,332	Kind of ticks me off the way doctors dole out meds like candy any more. Seems like every woman I work with is on some meds for nerves. Seems to me, they should try other methods to reduce stress instead of taking a pill !! __________________ LIFE IS GOD'S GIFT TO YOU WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR LIFE IS YOUR GIFT TO GOD