I am concerned that my son may be bi-polar

[gelfling]

and wonder if anyone would be kind enough to educate me about the disorder. The only thing I know is that my step-daughter was diagnosed 7 years ago. I've made it a point of not doing a web search because I'd rather get it straight from those who are living with it and can give me first hand information.

My son is also a recovering alcoholic. Any information anyone can share with me would be so greatly appreciated.

Blessings

[Don W]

I don't have that much personal experence but, others do. You might want to search out HistoryTeach. She has the same problem. Although there are others, she is having hands on experence with her son now. I'm sure she pop in but, you could think about PMing her to speed things up. Don W

P. S. Might help her also, she has alot on her plate right now. Sometimes a little diversion helps.

[shutterbug]

Gelfling....Hi and welcome to our neck of the woods. I'm a rapid cycling bipolar (and i'm inside of a major depressive episode right now), but i don't know first hand anything about being an alcoholic myself, although i have many family and friends who are both.

first....I've read that 85% of bipolars self-medicate and that's why so many of us are alcoholics or drug addicts and i believe this to be true. Also...I've read that when an alcoholic or drug addict gets the bipolar disorder under control then the cravings for substances become less strong and it becomes easier for the person to stop using.

I jumped over to www.NAMI.org and pulled off some of the "basics" about being bipolar. Nami is a GREAT place to go for information and support. They are a nation-wide group who also offer support groups for friends and families of bipolars...and with you having both your son and your step-daughter as being bipolars my suggestion would be to check out a few meetings so that you can meet other people in your area who are struggling with the same issues. There is a place on the Website that can tell you how to find services in your area.

Here's the information:
Bipolar Disorder
What is bipolar disorder?

Bipolar disorder, or manic depression, is a serious brain disorder that causes extreme shifts in mood, energy, and functioning. It affects 2.3 million adult Americans, which is about 1.2 percent of the population, and can run in families. The disorder affects men and women equally. Bipolar disorder is characterized by episodes of mania and depression that can last from days to months. Bipolar disorder is a chronic and generally life-long condition with recurring episodes that often begin in adolescence or early adulthood, and occasionally even in children. It generally requires lifelong treatment, and recovery between episodes is often poor. Generally, those who suffer from bipolar disorder have symptoms of both mania and depression (sometimes at the same time).

What are the symptoms of mania?

Mania is the word that describes the activated phase of bipolar disorder. The symptoms of mania may include:

either an elated, happy mood or an irritable, angry, unpleasant mood
increased activity or energy
more thoughts and faster thinking than normal
increased talking, more rapid speech than normal
ambitious, often grandiose, plans
poor judgement
increased sexual interest and activity
decreased sleep and decreased need for sleep
What are the symptoms of depression?

Depression is the other phase of bipolar disorder. The symptoms of depression may include:

depressed or apathetic mood
decreased activity and energy
restlessness and irritability
fewer thoughts than usual and slowed thinking
less talking and slowed speech
less interest or participation in, and less enjoyment of activities normally enjoyed
decreased sexual interest and activity
hopeless and helpless feelings
feelings of guilt and worthlessness
pessimistic outlook
thoughts of suicide
change in appetite (either eating more or eating less)
change in sleep patterns (either sleeping more or sleeping less)
What is a "mixed" state?

A mixed state is when symptoms of mania and depression occur at the same time. During a mixed state depressed mood accompanies manic activation.

What is rapid cycling?

Sometimes individuals may experience an increased frequency of episodes. When four or more episodes of illness occur within a 12-month period, the individual is said to have bipolar disorder with rapid cycling. Rapid cycling is more common in women.

What are the causes of bipolar disorder?

While the exact cause of bipolar disorder is not known, most researchers believe it is the result of a chemical imbalance in certain parts of the brain. Other evidence suggests that the disorder results from impairments of the function of intracellular signaling pathways (the "machinery" inside nerve cells) within specific areas of the brain. Scientists have found evidence of a genetic predisposition to the illness. An active area of research involves trying to understand what those genes are that lend susceptibility to developing the disorder. Bipolar disorder tends to run in families, and close relatives of someone with bipolar disorder are more likely to be affected by the disorder. Sometimes serious life events such as a serious loss, chronic illness, illicit or prescription drug use or financial problems, can trigger an episode in some individuals with a predisposition to the disorder. There are other possible "triggers" of bipolar episodes: the treatment of depression with an antidepressant medication may trigger a switch into mania, sleep deprivation may trigger mania, or hypothyroidism may produce depression or mood instability. It is important to note that bipolar episodes can and often do occur without any obvious trigger.

How is bipolar disorder treated?

While there is no cure for bipolar disorder, it is a treatable and manageable illness. After an accurate diagnosis, most people can be successfully treated. Medication is an essential part of successful treatment for people with bipolar disorder. Maintenance treatment with a mood stabilizer substantially reduces the number and severity of episodes for most people, although episodes of mania or depression may occur and require a specific additional treatment. In addition, psychosocial therapies including, cognitive-behavioral therapy, interpersonal therapy, family therapy, and psychoeducation are important to help people understand the illness and to develop skills to cope with the stresses that can trigger episodes. Changes in medications or doses may be necessary, as well as changes in treatment plans during different stages of the illness.

Medications used to treat mania. Medications commonly used to treat manic episodes of bipolar disorder are called mood stabilizers, and they include lithium (Eskalith or Lithobid) and divalproex sodium (Depakote).

Lithium has long been used as a first line treatment for acute mania in people with bipolar disorder. Lithium is effective for preventing episodes of mania from occurring and for treating an episode after it has begun. However, for some individuals, lithium is ineffective and for others, lithium has a variety of side effects that may make it an undesirable treatment option.
Depakote is an anticonvulsant that has been used to treat epilepsy since 1983, but it was approved as a treatment for manic episodes of bipolar disorder in 1995. Depakote seems to be as effective as lithium for treating mania and it has fewer side effects, although it may not be appropriate for people with a history of liver problems.
Other anticonvulsant medications have also been used to treat mania, including lamotrigine (Lamictal) which was recently approved by the Food and Drug Administration for treatment of bipolar disoder. These include carbamazepine (Tegretol) and topiramate (Topamax). However, these two medications have not been officially approved by the FDA for the treatment of bipolar disorder and have their own side effects.
Mania may also be treated acutely with antipsychotic medications. This class of medications includes Olanzapine (Zyprexa), which is FDA approved for the treatment of acute mania.
Medications used to treat depression. During depressive episodes, people with bipolar disorder may need additional treatment with an antidepressant medication. Because of the risk of triggering mania, doctors often prescribe an antidepressant only after the individual is already receiving a therapeutic dose of lithium or an anticonvulsant mood stabilizer. Research suggests that mood stabilizers can protect against antidepressant-induced switches into mania. Antidepressant medications relieve depression, elevate mood, and activate behavior, but it often takes three to four weeks to respond. Sometimes a variety of different antidepressants and doses will be tried before finding the medication that works best for a particular individual.

There are several different types of antidepressants used to treat depression including tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs), monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs), selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), or newer antidepressants that function in different ways. Recent data suggests that the anticonvulsant lamotrigine (Lamictal) may possess antidepressant effects in bipolar disorder. Once again, it is important to emphasize that treatment of depression in bipolar disorder without a mood stabilizing medication may result in "cycling" into a manic episode.
Consumers and their families must be cautious during the early stages of treatment when energy levels and the ability to take action return before mood improves. At this time - when decisions are easier to make, but depression is still severe - the risk of suicide may temporarily increase.
What are the side effects of the medications used to treat bipolar disorder?

All medications have side effects. Different medications produce different side effects, and people differ in the amount and severity of side effects they experience. Side effects can often be treated by changing the dose of the medication, switching to a different medication, or treating the side effect directly with an additional medication.

Side effects of medications used to treat mania.

Side effects of lithium include hand tremors, excessive thirst, excessive urination, and memory problems. Side effects often become less troublesome after a few weeks as the body adjusts to the medication. Particularly bothersome tremors can be treated with additional medication. Low thyroid function can be treated with thyroid supplements. In very few people, long-term lithium treatment can interfere with kidney function.
Common side effects of anticonvulsant mood stabilizers include nausea, drowsiness, dizziness, and tremors. Some people taking anticonvulsant mood stabilizers may develop liver problems or problems with white blood cell count and blood platelets, which can be severe. Therefore, blood tests to monitor liver function and blood cells may be an important part of treatment with some of these medications.
Side effects of medications used to treat depression. About half of the people taking antidepressant medications have mild side effects during the first few weeks of treatment.

Common side effects of tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs) include dry mouth, constipation, bladder problems, sexual problems, blurred vision, dizziness, drowsiness, skin rash, or weight gain or loss.
Individuals taking monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) may have to be careful about eating certain smoked, fermented, or pickled foods, drinking certain beverages, or taking some medications because they can cause severe high blood pressure in combination with the medication. MAOIs have other, less severe side effects as well.
The SSRIs and newer antidepressants tend to have fewer and different side effects, such as nausea, nervousness, insomnia, diarrhea, rash, agitation, or sexual problems, or weight gain or loss.
Reviewed by Husseini Manji, MD June 2003

[shutterbug]

Hey....if you ever have any other questions...feel free to ask me or anyone else here...K! And again...welcome.

P.S. One of the best books I've read about living with bipolar disorder is "A Brilliant Madness" by Patty Duke. Actually I think this book would be super beneficial to you since there is also the alcoholism involved (which patty duke did too...as well as popping pills and stuff). The book is neat in that it alternates between telling patty's personal story and then a doctor tell how or why the disease workes the way it does. There's even a whole chapter called (i think) "The creativity connection" And it talks about all the studies and things that have been done that show there's a large percentage of bipolars who are super creative and it lists examples of famous bipolars like Abraham Lincoln. Also....(i personally found this one interesting)...that the one single profession most filled with bipolars....is journalism/writers! Just a few fun facts.

Hugs,
Jenna

[gelfling]

Thanks for the responses. I've not had the opportunity to get online because my son has been here most of the time. This is a lot to digest. Scares the hell out of me too. I see so many of the symptoms.

I have to give special thanks to Shutter. Following your posts has educated me and opened my eyes to the disorder. Especially the part of the person being gifted. When I read that, the bells started going off. My son is an amazing musician. Well beyond his years.

He went to his psychiatrist that prescribes his medication. I have no idea what they talked about but he upped his dose of celexa to 30mg until the end of the month and then he'll go to 40mg. Like with a lot of things in his life, admitting to the possibility to someone other than me and his dad might not happen. We wonder if he discussed this with the shrink. He does have a therapist who is a psychologist and she recommended he be tested for bi-polar. But a lot of people in his home group are telling him that it's natural to go through what he's going through during recovery. Then again, he's not attend a meeting in 5 days. And this makes me concerned. He usually does 4-6 a week.

It's so easy to think he's not. Kind of like thinking my husband wasn't an alcoholic. That damned denial thing I guess.

Guess I'll just have to sit back, keep my mouth shut and detach and let this thing play out. It's tough when it's your child. My mantra for today is, detach, detach, detach.

Love and blessings

[shutterbug]

kathy...dont' be scared!!! All a diagnosis is...is a way to understand what is happening and then start treating it. I was super glad to finially figure this all out about myself b/c suddenly most of my life made sense.

if he is bipolar it's treatable (not curable, but he can still go on and live successful and happy lives)

And there is the possiblity that his "bipolar" type symptoms may go away once he's been off the juice for a while. It's always hard to diagnose people who are still actively drinking (not that i'm a doc or anything....cus i'm far from it).

Questions:
How old is he? (is he about 20?)
How many years drinking?
Any of his other blood relatives bipolar or have a mental illness?

There are a lot of awsome musicians who are bipolar...i personally know of 3. One being my ex who was also a late stage alcoholic and if he could ever get away from the bottle...he'd be a millionaire. Well...actually he was...he got sober for 2 years and made a million dollars before he decided to start drinking again. I still can't listen to some country songs on the radio because there are several that he's recorded on (lead guitarist)

My family is littered with creativity, mental illness and substance abuse......which obviously also produces a ton of codependency.

Are you in Alanon? If so....many of the readings can be adapted to deal with a loved one with a mental illness (although i'm not saying he is bipolar for sure or not cus i don't know)

Originally Posted by gelfling

Like with a lot of things in his life, admitting to the possibility to someone other than me and his dad might not happen. We wonder if he discussed this with the shrink

Would you mind clarifying please...i dont' understand what it is that he is or isn't admitting to?

Anyway...detaching....that's a very good thing. Try to give it some time...if peeps in his home group are saying it's natural for him to be acting the way he is right now then maybe it is a natural result from the drinking (although....my mind thinks "Well since 85 percent of bipolars become addicts then that means there's a lot of bipolars out there drinking and trying to stop drinking....so what may seem like normal behavior from sobering up...may actually be the mental illness coming through/???????....just my own thoughts cus i really don't have a clue) So i'd just say hang tight and see what happens.

be sure and keep me and everyone else updated on what's going on...k

Hugs,
Jenna

P.S. Your comment made my day....thank you from the bottom of my heart

[AUDRADAVID]

Hey- Exabf Was Bi-polar- It Is Extreme Modd Highs And Lows. Also Known As Manic-depressive. They Can Go From Very Very Almost Euphoric Like Happiness To Sever Depression- Each Mood Can Last Hours To Days To Weeks Depending On Each Person. In Other Words One Person's Moods May Switch Daily, Another's Monthly., And Anywhere In Between. Many Parents Mistake Teenage Years For Bi-polar Kids. How Old Id Your Son? He May Be Going Through His Teenage Rage Phase. You Can Bring Him To A Doctor- Psycologist- He/she Will Ask A Ton Of Questions To Determine A Diagnosis. It Is Genetic But Can't Be Determined Through A Cat Scan. Counseling And Medications Such As Depokote Or Wellbutrin Will Help Someone Control Thier Highs And Lows And Manic Episodes. People With Bi-polar Are More Likely To Use Drugs Due To Self Medicating Themselves If They Have Never Been Seen By A Doctor. Private Message Me If U Want To Talk More. Good Luck.

[gelfling]

My son is 25 years old. He's in recovery. Alcohol. On the 20th of this month, it will be 10 months. He's been drinking since he went to college. So that's 18 until 24.

Blood relatives with bi-polar...My brother-in-law and one sister-in-law. My husband's daughter. So I do see it on my husband's side. My side were also alcoholics, but no one diagnosed with any mental illness.

Like with a lot of things in his life, admitting to the possibility to someone other than me and his dad might not happen. We wonder if he discussed this with the shrink

I meant that he will occasionally talk about something that causes him concern, but he won't talk to the right people about it, like his psychiatrist/psychologist. He doesn't feel as if he is. So if he doesn't tell them of the possibility of being bi-polar to his therapists...

We all talked the other night and son admitted to having weird feelings as a child. As if he were going to explode. Knots in stomach and crazy stuff in his head. Then, dad admits he too had problems as a child. I'm amazed. Dad never talked about it, but he admits that if he ever said anything as a kid, they told him he was crazy. We're in our early 50's, so that sounds right.

I was so wrapped up in dad's alcoholism, I was never aware of what was going on with our son. Hind sight and all that stuff, but I do now know that there wasn't anything I was meant to do at that time. It had to play out as a part of our life experiences and destiny.

Blessings

[Jon]

A truly amazing book is "An Unquiet Mind : A Memoir of Moods and Madness" by Kay Redfield Jamison. Although a bit dated now (published in 1997), it helped me identify. After reading that book I knew, for certain, what was different about me. It would still be many years before I was able to work a "dual" program and stay both sober and out of the hospital. Twice the disease, twice the work.

[equus]

I meant that he will occasionally talk about something that causes him concern, but he won't talk to the right people about it, like his psychiatrist/psychologist.

I would back off him with any suggested diagnosis - it's most likely to make him defensive, especially if he has already said he doesn't think he is.

I think what matters is not what label is used, the most important thing is that he is getting treatment from a proffessional. To be doing that he must realise there is some problem?

It may be worth reinforcing with him that his thoughts about it are valuable - in fact priceless, needed and vital. When he discusses stuff with you remind him of the value of his own self reflection and reinforce that his doc will be able to treat him better if he shares the information with them as well as you.

Pulling off from telling him what you think he has is a demonstration that it isn't you that knows or needs to know - it's his doc. Play up the need for them to get the benefits of how he sees himself, tell him you want to help but aren't qualified, where as he does have a qualified psych that would value hearing what he thinks in detail.

That's how I began to get D to open up with his doc, I kept my place for guesses here ONLY - at home I was a broken record, 'This is effecting your life - your doc can't treat you accurately if you don't tell him'.

And - PATIENCE, every small step is worth something, him opening up to you is worth something - tell him over and over again how important what he thinks is.

All just my thoughts - no garauntees!!

[gelfling]

I would back off him with any suggested diagnosis - it's most likely to make him defensive, especially if he has already said he doesn't think he is.

He talked with his psychiatrist/meds doc in the morning and his therapist later that day. I never bring up any of his visits. I know how precious the communication is between patient and doc. Unless he brings it up, we never talk about it.

Regarding the bi-polar, his therapist recommended he be tested and he told us about it. We talked about his step-sister who is bi-polar and I probably accidentally made the comment that they showed a lot of similarities. Eventhough we rarely see her for period of 3-4 years at a time.

I am very grateful he is seeing things and taking control. My concern has been that in the past, he would say one thing and do another. That in itself held him back for several years from getting the help he needed. In the rare event he asks a question, I tell him that's one for the docs to answer.

Patience...wow. I'm the type that wants him to be okay yesterday. Probably like everyone else here.

Blessings

[Don W]

Kathy, Altough slow at times, I'm glad you're making progress. There is so much to learn and understand. With my PTSD, sometimes I just get tired of having to deal with what others just do automaticly. I just want to remind you to take time for you also.
You'll be no good to him or anyone if you run yourself down. Try to keep a healthy balance of helping him and helping you. Sometimes, we with problems have many to help us. You or like my wife only have themselves sometime. You are important also.

[shutterbug]

All good wisdom....although i think, just my opinion, that bipolar or other needs to be ruled out as soon as possible? WHY? Because if he's bipolar and not being treated with mood stabalizers and such...then he's NOT going to successfully be able to stay sober in the long run.

Just like someone in another thread who's girlfriend is pregnant and in the middle of a major manic episode. She's not alcoholic....yet she's going out every night and drinking while she's pregnant. When we are manic....we don't think clearly and we have all the energy in the world and it become very hard to control urges. With me it's usually shopping. I hate being broke...but the slightest manic and *poof* i've spent all my money and even overdrawn my checking account. And too there have been times were i ran out to the bars even though i'm not normally a drinker.

So he may have a dual diagnosis.....but you need to find out by getting him tested if he's willing. And if he is bipolar....him being able to talk to his step-sister will probably help him to not feel so alone.

((((AUDRADAVID))))).....just so you know....episodes can even last up to years. I'm about 14 months into this major depression episode. And a rapid cycling bipolar like myself can also change moods as quickly as from minute to minute or less. When i got out of the hospital a year ago.....i would go so low that i couldn't hardly talk unless i severly studdered....then mid sentence my brain would come back on line at lightening speed and i'd start talking a mile a minute. I flipped about 20 or 30 times like that that day....and i don't ever remember being more scared of frustrated and like i truely was loosing my mind. But generally i only flip once or twice a day and it's much more graduale. The part i hate the most is not knowing how i'm gunna wake up feeling....like today i got up feeling like someone beat me in my sleep and fed me a bunch of sleeping pills and muscle relaxers. boy did i hurt.

Anyway...i just wanted to clarify those two little things.

[shutterbug]

Another reason to find out as soon as possible......bipolar disorder is a progressive illness and the longer he goes without treatment the worse he will be later on.

[Don W]

shutterbug, you and the others have come up with some great ideas and suggestions for Kathy. I agree testing is important. So many of these issues can memic each other. I have PTSD but, when I read all the other post dealing with other illnesses, I can identify with some of the same feelings and symptoms.