Don...can you help? I dont' know if SR is for me anymore

[shutterbug]

Hi. I don't even know what to say really (funny huh). I wasn't thinking and got a HUGE drama started in another forum....so much drama that 3 or 4 threads got locked. I definetly don't ever want to go back to that forum, but this mental health forum of SR is the only place where I feel I have even the resemblence of a family that can understand me and a place were I (as obviously as mentally sick as I am) can somehow feel like I have the opportunity to help others. But now....even though that drama has ended *thank you Jesus* I feel broken, hurt, confused, wounded and very, very sad.

I don't feel comfortable even posting in this mental health forum anymore and am thinking about totally leaving SR for good. I'm not one to ever do well under or after feeling attacked. Any time I come here, even to just this little corner of SR,....what happened the past 2 days will always haunt me b/c when I feel hurt that sticks with me for a long time. I honestly don't know if I can visit here without ever feeling like an unwanted outsider now. This place feels tainted and uncomfortable now (sad to say, resembling how I felt in my childhood home). I don't want to leave this corner of SR, but I honestly dont' feel welcome anymore b/c of what happened. It's stressed me so much that I became sick at my stomach and I started throwing up as I was trying to drive home from my sister's last night.

It feels like I'm a walking black plague. I feel cursed b/c everywhere I go, in any life I try to become a part of....I screw it all up...i hurt myself and i hurt others. I cant' even think of any words that would adequately describe how bad I'm putting myself down right now...there are no words to describe it. I'm pretty certian that I've lost ANOTHER best friend last night from what all this stirred up. That makes 2 friends in one week!!!! And now I feel like I'm lossing a whole family by not feeling comfortable coming to SR any more at all.

God...I know somehow I am always bringing this stuff on myself and it seems like the only way to stop it is to STOP talking openly about my feelings to anybody and everybody. I feel that I will never be able to trust anyone ever again b/c I either hurt them, hurt myself, hurt both and often even hurt many others. I feel selfish for attempting to have any kind of relationship with anyone b/c of what I end up bringing to their front doors....the black plague of drama that seems to surround my life. This makes 3 best friends and several other close friends I've lost in less than a year. If I lose SR then I don't have anyone who understands, cares and is always here for me. I feel so utterly alone...and the sad part is that I'm glad at the moment even though I say this through tears. Yeah...as someone reminded me...I do have my heavenly father, but we also all need to feel we have people in our lives who can love and who can at least understand us a little. I dont' know...I feel like the level of my whining has gotten to a point where people will think that I can't possibly feel the way I am saying...but my words and my feeling are honest. I feel I am at the bottom of the barrel (only my barrel is a deep, dark abyss and I'm so lost that very few people can even see me anymore.

I also feel hurt that the SR powers that be never came down to even try to help me....everyone could see that I unintentionally got a cluster started, but it took 2 days and too many intense emotions before it was shut down. And others now have even started threads talking about the drama surrounding me and my friend where they are talking about what they learned yesterday and it feels like people are using something that was painful to me to help themselves in their recovery efforts. Maybe I'm being selfish and self-absorbed, but there's something about me hurting and them feeling uplifted that just doesn't make me feel very good about myself.

If there was a scale to measure how bad I feel about myself (100 being the best and 0 being the worst) I think at the moment I would say I'm about a 5. I can't get much lower. I honestly can't.

I just don't know what to do or what to say. I can't even explain any of this very well. I just know that I am really hurting and I feel I should leave this place, which for a year has been my safe haven, behind me and never look back because I dont' feel safe here anymore.

no hugs for me thanks,
Jenna

[Millwallj]

Your being hard on yourself. Test this out with reality. The REALITY of the situation. Really try and get a more sensible, realistic perspective on your distress and it will change.

[Millwallj]

we love you because we know how you feel. its that strange feeling of being connected. We all go through **** like this now and then. Remember also that things like this are a part of life.

[Millwallj]

if its any comfort I am always arguing and bickering on here. And then feeling intense guilt etc afterward. As long as we aim in the right direction we should all get to a place we want to be.

[Millwallj]

and shutter, what every you do WHAT EVER YOU DO, do NOT give this man your address. If you dont listen to anyone else, listen to THAT.

[Millwallj]

I had a stroll through those threads you spoke of.

No one thinks your bad/evil/mad/etc etc. They just want you to know the mistakes they have made in the past. Some call it "tough love", "reality check" etc. I know NOTHING about codependency fortunatley, because I would not say I am hugely codda. But I can see the sense, as an outsider, of what they are saying to you - and its not judgemental, or persecutory: its common sense, good old common sense. Can see the REALITY of the problem.

As for the guy himself thats your choice, but remember to protect yourself in this dark room that is the internet.

Hope that helps.

[Gabe]

No way Jenna.
Big hugs for you.
Sober Recovery is a place that people come to work on their recovery.
Sometimes, that means we put ourselves out there and other people will advise, suggest, opine on what is going on with us.
That is not always easy or comfortable.
Sometimes it hurts.
But underneath it all, I think some learning and growing takes place.
Such is the case with learning and growing.
It may involve some discomfort along the way.
But it gets us where we need to go.
The basic, driving force of Sober Recovery is support and understanding.
Sometimes that gets lost when things get heated.
But it always gets found again.
I hope you stick around and give this place another chance.
I think you'll be glad you did.

[bikewench]

Shutter.....

don't you dare leave... ;o)


you did nothing wrong ....

you just tried to be honest and to keep things right.
it's not your fault that you got a knee jerk reaction from some.

I also fell for an online guy Jenna...
I went through hell over it... still am... but.. I just have to see where some things go..
it's the spice of my life...
ya know..??

that don't mean it's right for you or for anyone else...
it's just my thing..

but.. because of the stigma around the farce of marriage and the fact that 80% of people in marriages cheat... then I have to say that those that paint this holy aura around marriage and the sanctity of it's being able to meet all the needful things of each partner is bull ka ka in my mind...
but.. that's just me...
I'm sure that many would say I was rationalizing my own denial and addiction.
and yeah...
I'm a love and sex addict... so that may be...
but.. it's still my reality... and I don't have to live my life according to anyone but me... if my shoulders are broad enough and I'm willing to deal with the fallout and consequences of what I'm doing.

I know the feelings your talking about Jenna...
and I know your need to feel right about it.
I'm here for you... and I really think that SR needs you... your love.. and your growth...
so.. please don't go...

you have a place here if you say you have a place here.

[equus]

they are talking about what they learned yesterday and it feels like people are using something that was painful to me to help themselves in their recovery efforts. Maybe I'm being selfish and self-absorbed, but there's something about me hurting and them feeling uplifted that just doesn't make me feel very good about myself.

Jenna, please understand I can't heal the hurt so yes, I try to learn from it. I need to feel uplifted sometimes, to feel myself coping, to occassionally feel something I did was ok or that at the very least I didn't cause more hurt.

You see if I forbid myself to ever feel uplifted when someone else is in pain I can't live at all. I work with abused kids, my husband is trying and mostly succeeding to stay off booze, meanwhile he's been denied the psychiatric help he needs because of his past drinking. My brother has learning disabilities, lives alone in a terrace and often gets bullied at work. These are people that I love, people who's courage touches my heart, people that I learn from by the gentleness they have and sometimes even from their pain.

So you see, I don't think I have an option not to let myself feel uplifted every now and again and as I can only get that feeling by my heart, words and actions being the same thing it doesn't do harm to others.

Jenna, give the same as you know it's right to get back - I mean inside you, in the way you feel about others, be slow to judge and quick to care. Sometimes that means being slow to judge people as wanting to hurt you.

People can and do do things they know will hurt others - but let that be their problem because I can't imagine a harder way to live life. As they judge the world outside they must partly judge themselves.

[Millwallj]

yes eq - nicely put.

[ASpouse]

:

You all are giving such wonderful caring advice to Jenna. I hope she listens truly with her heart and mind, however, I think Jenna, in her disease of being bi-polar can't truly understand this.

Leave it to the professionals, this mental illness is really hard funky stuff to deal with when you don't know the circumstances.

[bikewench]

Hey Spouse..

I think Jenna, in her disease of being bi-polar can't truly understand this.

ummm....
just for clarity...
what part won't she understand ?

Leave it to the professionals, this mental illness is really hard funky stuff to deal with when you don't know the circumstances.

lol...
being a mental case as well... I think I relate to Jenna really well... and to my way of seeing things... many people on SR relate really well to her as well.

all any of us are really looking for is love and acceptance for our true selves...

that aint so hard.. is it..?

[Don W]

Jenna, Nobody wants you to leave. I found in early recovery it is very important to stay away from controversy. Many of us because of addiction,pain etc have learned how to push each others buttons. I suggest you do what I did. Focus on recovery and check list of posters. If there is someone you don't care to deal with move on. It takes two to argue. The main issue is the impression new comers get. Many come from abusive realationships and lives. Their first impression could make a difference. To see people fighting and being mean will drive them away. This happens in every group and club and self help groups are no different. I've run from AA meetings and have seen others leave because someone lacked compassion inthere actions. This is your decision but, it is you that must choose. I don't have time but, there is a book called "Living Sober" The section on anger, resentment is a must read. It fits no matter what your problem. Basicly, even if right, we must pull in our horns and refocus.
It is ourselves that allows people,places and things to stop our recovery. Sometimes the best response is no response. Left on their own, most will move to another site. Remember, to some people Bad attention is better than no attention. I have post many thoughts for you and others to focus on. To focus on personalities will doom one's goal. What is your goal is the decision for you that needs to be made. Words without actions are just words with no meaning. I'm not prefect, I can look for trouble myself. Maybe, each day you could post a few words of encourgement to the first time people. Don't even mention your issues, it's called unconditional compassion. This is for everyone, many times our enemy lies within. We mistakenly strike out. Don W

[Minx1969]

((((Jenna)))),

I usually post on F2F and read your post but didn't involve myself in the controversy so to speak..

reading your posts on F2F and here I see that you are working hard at your recovery and you should be congratulated on that!!!! It's not easy and it takes a long time..If I look at myself 10 years ago (i'm 36 now)..I don't even recognize that unhappy, unbalanced person..

Don't ever feel that people don't want you - everyone deserves unconditional love and support..You aren't alone..there are lots of people here on SR to support you..

Just hang in there Jenna..I can feel your pain and that you are going through a rough time..there have been times that I felt alone but I walked through the pain and came out a better person..

-Minx

[pedagogue]

I'm a bit out of the loop, but I do know that you bring alot ot SR, and we would be less if you left. Sometimes you are the hammer, sometimes you are the nail. Take some time to step back and catch your breath.

-p

[Wolfstarr]

(((Jenna)))

I totally agree with pedgogue...and I would like to add that I get so much from you.
If you need to go for a bit, go ahead, but please come home...don't shut the door.
We do care so much
And Bikewench, I can so relate to your post...thanks



Hugs indeed,
Vivian

[shutterbug]

Originally Posted by Millwallj

Your being hard on yourself. Test this out with reality. The REALITY of the situation. Really try and get a more sensible, realistic perspective on your distress and it will change.

Ummm....excuse me...but the reality IS that I am hurting. That's the reality. Don't try to tell me that my feelings arn't valid.

[shutterbug]

Originally Posted by Millwallj

and shutter, what every you do WHAT EVER YOU DO, do NOT give this man your address. If you dont listen to anyone else, listen to THAT.

I already did. This is a moot point. He's had it for a month or 2 now and I have his and I don't regret that. You guys can be a suspecious as you want, but he is no threat to me....you guys act like I'm a stupid little kid who doesnt' know anything about the big bad wolves here in cyber space. I've been internet savvy for 10 years now and this is the first time I've ever come across someone that I trusted as much as a family member. I've never given my address to anyone before...b/c I'm not stupid and I wasn't stupid in makine the educated desicion to give it to him.

[shutterbug]

[QUOTE=Gabe] Sober Recovery is a place that people come to work on their recovery.....But underneath it all, I think some learning and growing takes place.
....The basic, driving force of Sober Recovery is support and understanding.
QUOTE]

"I" came to work on my recovery and look what it got me....I got no learning and no growing out of this (others did at my expense)...I got more out of reading a single chapter of a codie book I had here already then ANYthing anyone has said to me reguarding all of this.

I think many of those in F&F need to be REMINDED that the driving force of this place IS support and understanding....rather than taking out their own frustrations on a scape goat.

I also think a NEW forum should be created STRICTLY for codie issues....REGARDLESS of the presense of alcoholism or drug addiction. Somebody said to me in some fashion of...."why are you even posting in here --unless you are alcoholic too"

Alcoholism doesn't have to be involved when talking about people with severe codie behaviors (even though it usually is)....just like me...I HAD a background full of alcoholic friends and family, but my initial recovery efforts from codependency took me away from all of that. That DOESN'T mean that I'm not still dealing with the years of affects alcoholism had on my life. No one at this place ANY WHERE should be made to feel like the don't belong in a forum. That's one reason I'm so hurt....because I never thought anyone here would EVER make me feel like I dont' belong somewhere why honestly seeking help and support and understanding.

If ONE single positive thing can possibly come of this...I HOPE and PRAY it's the creation of a seperate forum specifically for codies (from ALL backgrounds and problems related to codependency)

[minnie]

I got no learning and no growing out of this

Why not? It seemed to me like the whole exchange(s) offered enormous potential for growth. And in fact, I seem to remember us having an interesting discussion about unavailable people.

Is your focus on recovery or on your hurt?

[shutterbug]

Originally Posted by bikewench

you just tried to be honest and to keep things right.
it's not your fault that you got a knee jerk reaction from some.

...I'm a love....addict... so that may be...

You said you can understand me and I feel that you do....that's for letting me feel that SOMEbody does.

"love addict" --> that's the best way I've ever heard to describe my fairytale dreams of being loved unconditionally and actively by just ONE person in my life. I AM a love addict...I am also, on occation, a food addict....and I think both come from my child hood of being made to feel bad for needing either. So many times...I knew things would have been better for me if I hadnt' ever had to ask my dad for lunch money and if I hadnt' had to scrounge up something to eat while my step-mom, step-sister and father all set down at the table for a full-course meal nearly every night. And I don't even dare to start talking about what my desires of wanting to feel loved brought me b/c I'm already suicidal enough to pull up any more of THOSE memories at the moment.

[margo]

Hi Shutterbug - you got some really good replies to this post, including love and encouragement. No one is trying to tell you that your feelings aren't valid, they're just asking you to try to step back and see it from a different perspective. I read the threads in F&F and mostly what I saw were people who were very concerned for you and your safety. The topic of infidelity is a touchy one as many women and men have had alcoholic/addicted partners who have had affairs and it has been a very painful experience for them, myself included, and it is bound to trigger some. To go to the F&F forum and start a thread talking about the love between you and a married man (be it "brother and sister love" or whatever) is something that in hindsight you might have thought twice about. It is up to each of us to post responsibly and to think before hitting the submit button. People will often post looking for someone to cosign their BS, but people who really care do not do that. We don't need to start a forum for just "codie issues" as there is no need - the topic can be addressed on many of the forums that already exist. Try to step out of your hurt for a moment, Jenna, and you will see that this place is filled with people who really do care about you, me included.

[splendra]

It seems a lot like a surgical procedure. Surgery hurts things get cut and moved and stitched maybe we did not give you enough anesthesia....maybe you have a high tollerance for the anesthesia we used or a low threash hold for pain.

We are all addicts here some like to call themselves codies well that means addict in my book. I think of codie to mean love, romance, sex or, relationship addict. I think these additions are the underlying cause of other addictions. When I call myself a codie I mean I am an addict and my disease is just as deadly as any other addiction. It means I am disconnected from myself and I form psuedo-relatiionships designed to escape intimancy and reality although I tell myself I want to feel close to some one and to be loved but, my obsessive compulsive disorder leads me to do the very things that lead me away from what I say I want. I choose people to have relationships with who are not whole and they being the mirror to my addiction I am deluded thinking they are the source of my joy or sorrow and I keep seeking to control and squeeze out of another individual what I need to find in myself and thru my connection to my HP. I get sicker and sicker until some brave soul comes and has the nerve to cut this tumor out of me with the percission of a surgen their eyes seem like steel as they put me under their knife and they utter words that cut me deep because that tumor has been growing for a long time and buddy it is huge it has been pushing aside all my organs wraping around my nerve fibers making me numb to my pain and it is not the surgery itself that hurts so much as it is the pain that I have not felt for all these years while the tumor grew and took over my whole life it is nobodies fault but, there is lots of room now for grace and healing....

[shutterbug]

Originally Posted by equus

Jenna, please understand I can't heal the hurt so yes, I try to learn from it. I need to feel uplifted sometimes, to feel myself coping, to occassionally feel something I did was ok or that at the very least I didn't cause more hurt.

Equus...I know...I wasn't trying to say that you feeling uplifted by handling my situation with kid gloves was or is the wrong thing to do. I respect you immensly for remaining a voice of calmness and reasoning in everything that I can remember that you said. I'm actually glad that others were able to learn SOMEthing, ANYthing from that whole ordeal. It just struck me a little negative in MY eyes...b/c here "I" was hurting while others were healing and I was the one coming to that place to find some healing in the first place. It's kinda like going to the atm to draw out some money and someone comes along and bumps into you and you end up dropping a few dollars without realizing it until later when you go to the grocery store to buy something you really felt you needed. That person or persons who bumped into you DIDN'T mean to make you lose something, they didn't MEAN to end up causing you to have to go without groceries b/c maybe they were trying to push you out of the way of a rambunctious kid on a bike heading directly on a colision course with you......And THEN the next completely innocent person came walking along and found that $10 bill that once was my reason for visiting the atm to begin with. That person did NOTHING wrong by picking up the money found and maybe for the first time in their life they even tried to find the rightful owner...but yet the person who lost it feels upset because someone else now has what they were going after to begin with. And the person who found the money now feels better about themselves because for the first time they didn't just stick it in their pocket and move on...instead they TRIED to help return it to the rightful owner. NO matter....how much EVERYONE in this story had good intentions....the result is that the person who went to the atm to draw out their last few dollars...now has more than when they started with before deciding to go and pull the money out.

I don't know if that analogy makes sense or not. I'm just saying....it's nobody's fault....but the fact is that I am still hurting and others involved in bringing me some of that hurt (however unintentional) where free to carry on with thier lives as if nothing ever happened....except that maybe they felt that they did a good deed for pushing me out of the way of a potential danger.

Does any of that make sense?

I'm really glad that some people were able to put that extra $10 in their pockets to help with the things THEY need to better their lives....I just wish it had not have been MY $10.

Originally Posted by equus

...Jenna, give the same as you know it's right to get back - I mean inside you, in the way you feel about others, be slow to judge and quick to care. Sometimes that means being slow to judge people as wanting to hurt you.

...People can and do do things they know will hurt others - but let that be their problem because I can't imagine a harder way to live life. As they judge the world outside they must partly judge themselves.

I truly believe that I am one of the most non-judgemental people I know. But regardless of how understanding anyone may be or try to be....when people are saying to you things like "how dare you" and "why did you post this" and "why did you come to this forum" and "(this person you care about) a liar, creep, perv, manipulator, adulterer (oh and so are you) and "it's just her disease" and every other demeaning comment that was made....it's just a tad bit difficult to react to that and to judge that they have their own motives in mind instead of wanting to help and support"

And yes...I also understand that the way my thread came across that it seemed as though I was saying "please condon my behavior b/c it's what makes me happy and I want to continue it and be able to supported in that". It took someone pointing that out to me for me to understand that's how it came across even thought that was not my intentions. I understand that I completely presented the entire situation in a very bad way.

And you say "give the same as you would want to get back" -- my ENTIRE life revolves around this...and if it didn't and if I didn't try so hard to give people the benefit of the doubt then I would have completely went off on several people yesterday instead of trying to explain myself better. And I don't blame Ryan one bit for doing just that b/c it was VERY hard for me to keep from doing the same. I know I wasn't totally able to do that 100% but I think I should be commended for the way I WAS able to contain my raging emotions to many of the things said to me.

And yeah....as relatively little I may have ended up judging people....you can be ASSURED that I am judging myself completely 100% - no holds barred! And that IS a horrible way to have to live...it's about to push me over the edge and I dont' know how to stop it.

So to tell me to try harder than I did yesterday not to judge other when what they are saying to me are vivid judgements....I take offense to that...since I truly believe I stood as strong and as still as I could have...more so that many others possibly could have under those conditions and while already struggling with myself so much BEFORE any of that even happened.

that whole judging part you said...I know you are TRYING to teach me something there....but it's just like what Gooch or someone else tried to do the same in what he said in my final thread. He said "this forum didn't hurt you".

Sometimes....there truly is a time when enough is enough you need to take a step back from trying to teach someone any more about their wrong doings or wrong ways of looking at things.

People, especially sensitive and severly depressed people like myself, can only take so many "face reality's" and "you're thinking is off" and lessons what he was trying to teach me that "it's not the FORUM that hurt you...it's that you ALLOWED yourself to be hurt...that no one can hurt you unless YOU allow them to."....people can sometimes ONLY take SO MUCH in one day or even one week.

Got it dude. It's a good lesson to learn...I just didn't need anyone else to point out my wrongful thinking when HE and YOU can plainly see that I'm already hurting and kicking myself enough. I feel like i'm continueing to be kicked while I'm already on the floor.

The time for me to try and learn something from any of this has far passed at the moment b/c if I don't tend to my deadly emotions first then that WILL be the result in my life shortly....death. I just can't handle being told any more that I have MORE things to work on b/c it would be SO EASY right now to just jump off that 10th floor and be free from it all together just to be able to escape what already feels like an impossible life of hurts to ever truly heal from and someday become healthy inspite of. Don't give me any more to try and "think" about and "learn" about right now....please....I just need to be able to try and survive at the moment.

It's like telling a starving person, laying in their death bed, to get up and wash the dishes that have piled up in the sink from when there USE to be food around.

Why not instead go find them some food to eat! Instead of trying to tell them what they should do or that they are lazy for not tending to the dishes dispite their current situation.

Like I said....sometimes...enough is enough. Let me get to a point where I am not starving to death before trying to teach what things I need to do to keep from ever getting in such bad shape to begin with...it just doesnt' make sense that way and it NEVER works. Heal first THEN teach when the right time comes.

[shutterbug]

Originally Posted by ASpouse

:
I hope she listens truly with her heart and mind, however, I think Jenna, in her disease of being bi-polar can't truly understand this.

Leave it to the professionals, this mental illness is really hard funky stuff to deal with when you don't know the circumstances.

ASpouse...I am truly fighting myself tooth and nail at the moment to be as compassionate and understanding with these words as I possibly can. I know that you truly do not realize how the above words come across to me and what they represent to ME...so I will not let myself become as reactive as my whole body and mind is screaming to be at this moment.

Just please....try and understand...that if you DON'T understand someone else's illness then it's usually best to keep your opinions quiet and let those who do respond.

And I am quite capable of understanding quite a lot of things which is why I able to maintain this much composure at the moment. But just for your own personal knowledge....just because I am mentally ill...that does not mean that I don't have any common sense and can't understand what others are telling me (I may be chosing to shut off some of those things and not think about them at the moment to keep myself from a total breakdown - but I do and can understand what most people are trying to explain. In fact...again...just for your personal knowleged....I have scored in the genius level range on several IQ tests...as do a great MANY people with mental illnesses. (For one a prime example: Abraham Lincoln also was bipolar and suffered from severe depression and suicidal tendencies).

Just my two cents....hope you can understand that I have no ill feelings toward you...just some of the words that have been chosen and used.