Trying to sort through it all...

[Wolf_22]

A friend of mine came over last night, and we talked a long time about love, relationships, and the like. I felt really appreciative of her too because she made me feel a little better because durring that day (and Sunday) I have felt really bad and down.

It's hard being on your own in college and being away from your family when you don't really have a typical family life and when you don't drink. I myself have been around the ben with my alchoholic family life, and I think I'm starting to finally realize the affects of it now that I'm 22 and having a horrible time coping with various things in my life such as not speaking to either parents in over 2-3 years, being single, and always feeling this horrible emptyness and depression almost everyday. I can't really remember a time where I felt I was trully happy, and although my life (as far as materialistic things are concerned) is good, I still can't help but to feel this feeling inside me all the time that is like I'm expecting something bad to happen. Maybe it's anxiety, maybe it's depression, but whatever it is, it isn't always in effect, but most of the time. When it isn't in effect though, I have beautiful days that couldn't be any better. I see the bluest of clouds, hear the most wonderful birds singing, and feel the freshest air brush up against my face. When it is in effect though, I see nothing but horrible things.

Although I'm excelling in things like my internship with making webpages, and school, I am horrible at being me in public. I feel that I am someone that has to be someone else when I'm in front of someone I don't know, or in front of someone I am attracted to. Do you think theres a chance for somone like me in this world? I'm deadly serious and the reason I'm asking is because this weekend I've felt so hopeless with things. With women, family, and everything it seems. I feel like I'm a great kid that has tons of stuff going for him, but I feel that no one really see's that sometimes. Everyday I try as hard as possible to be helpful with co-workers, do the best I can in school, and try to be loving to the family that I still have, and it just seems like no one really cares.

Take my sister for example... She hasn't called me once since I moved into my apartment about a year and a half ago. Is it normal for me to be angry at her because of this? I feel it is when I would always be over at her house before I moved and trying to help with various things around her house when I was there. I dunno. I mean, she has her first kid, and she's also building her first house working over 40 hours a week, so I know thats got something to do with it, but it's so hard keeping that mentality for more than a year of not hearing a single thing from her... And my parents? I haven't talked to them in over 2 years, my mother being over 2.5 almost. Since I've seen a therapist, under his advisement, he directed me not to communicate with them unless I felt I had to because of they're "issues". My dad was suspected of being a weed smoker, and being someone around town that would ask my older brothers and sisters friends sex for money, and my mother, well, let's just say that it's unusual to catch her NOT DRUNK.

Look, I'm really not trying to come here and pry up a pitty party session because I do get bad about that sometimes, and it's something I'm trying to break... But I can't keep these things inside me because it's just too much to bare. My relationship issues may never get solved because I don't really have anyone other than my grandmother of 70 sumthin' years old to look to for examples because my mother and father were never good at relationships. Every step I take in my life towards making friends, lovers, and academics feels awkward because I've come the farthest in my family, and it's just so damn sad sometimes because it makes me feel so alone and scared. It really is a challenge for me from day to day. It's kinda funny too because my older brother has never really even had his own place because he's been pretty messed up from our homelife, but yet he NEVER has any problems whatsoever getting a girlfriend or friends (he drinks and hardly ever talks about downing things compared to me). It's like people want people as friends that don't talk about stuff like this, and I just don't see how people keep these things in like they do, because I can't, and I think thats the reason why I don't have a girlfriend or very many friends.

I met someone the other day that had a friend that was supposedly interested in me. I'm going to make a big leap and try to take her out sometime this week. I'm terrified of doing this, but I'm going to anyways because I have to make myself realize that not everyone is like my ex-girlfriend, and that just maybe she could be a great girl to be with. I just hope that I can learn how to be friends with her first because this girl is pretty attractive (which is yet another thing I've been trying to work on).

[Wolf_22]

Also wanted to say too that having this place does make this life of mine just a little more habitable because it gives me a place to vent. I really do thank whoever is responsible for this site. It's helped me get through some pretty lousy times.

[In memory of miracle]

I gotta tell you, in reading your post,you sound like a great young man. I am sorry no one has told you that. I don't think your issues are any different then most adult children of alcoholics.I'd say you have a head start in being aware of them.The question is, what do we do with this awareness? I chose therapy and a support group to work on mine,it has really helped me. I also take med's for deppression/anxiety. Maybe a talk with a good doctor?
I am sorry that alcoholism has caused you so much pain,but I think it's a miracle you have turned out as well as you have! Keep the faith!
Trish

[Don W]

Wolf, I drank but, I can identify with your feelings. Sometime just being able to verbalize them is a big help. Many times we suffer in silence and silence is the best friend of lonliness and fear. There are groups for adult children of alcoholic. Also, I wasn't going to say this but, I can see through you what my sons must have gone through. My oldest got the full impact but, also my youger son. I lost contact whith them for about 20 years because of alcohol. I now only have contact with one of them. You help me by sharing. I always need to be reminded of the consequences of returning to alcohol. You sound like a great young man. Like my son inspite of it he turned out great and is a great father and husband. Don W

[Wolf_22]

Trish: I might do something like that (meds). I mean, I've been seeing a therapist there for awhile, and I stopped because 1, I felt that he couldn't help me with the problems I have left, and 2, because I felt like I was strong enough to keep truckin' on by myself. I still think I am strong too, but it's just days like this that make me wonder. I mean, it's weird because I go through some days like I'm on top of the world, kickin' but with stuff, and then theres days like today and yesterday where I get down on myself. Personally, I feel that most of it is due to my fear of not ever being able to be with a women and not having that many friends albeit from not "fitting in" with the in-crowd and drinking and being a party freak. Some of these fears I want to blame on my ex because she's made me be paranoid of women with cell phones because I caught her in a lie one night with her phone. I guess it kinda freaked me out or something. Also, I am affraid that I'll never be able to trust any women that I may ever end up with because of little things like trusting her enough to have guy friends, and stuff like that. I think sometimes some of that paranoia is due to a very chaotic, untrusting family life, but also some of it I think is simply from me not knowing what kind of women to "go after". I'm hoping that this will change through time because it's really having serious implications on me as in terms of believing in God and in love. It's tainted almost every aspect of my life, and I hate it because like I said before in my earlier post, I battle these urges to get p.o.'ed at the small things that I see from day to day that bring me down like the couples that I see walking on campus holding hands, and things like girls or guys talking about whatever party they went to the night before and blabbing on about how "plastered" they got. I don't want to be some sort of bitter 30 year old when I grow up, but I'm desperate for something to change in either my outlook or my entire life that will make me see what I have going for me and acknowlege it on a day to day basis therefor eliminating my constant inner turmoil. Inner peace I guess is one of the finest treasures in life besides love, and being without both is very devestating to a kid comming close to graduating college.

Don & Trish: Thanks for your compliment. That makes me feel good, but I just wish I could feel that other people see that in me. I mean, I guess I realize that I'm a good kid, but theres always that constant "noise" in your head that is constantly analyzing you and making your moods shift because of little peculiar, self-opinionated suggestions that constantly run you down about things. I mean, it's kinda ironic thinking about it sometimes because everytime I hear something like that in my mind, it's always either my dad's voice or my older brothers voice, because they were always the most critical of me. I remember nights after basketball games when I played for my highschool's varsity team durring my junior year about how they would get so mad at me because I wouldn't shoot the ball more, or try to dunk a ball on a fast break or something stupid like that. I used to love basketball, but it's been such a long time now since I ever even thought about playing or even just shooting around now because I'm so burnt out on it all.

It's pretty sad when the best memories in your life are only the ones that you vaguely remember of at the age of 5-6 years old. I remember days where my mom and dad would have people over for baumfires and pool parties. Now, we're lucky to spend Christmas together, and when I say together, I mean my grandmother, grandfather, and my sister and her husband and I. This is great, don't get me wrong, but thats only about a third of our family. I've been considering writing my mother and father a "hate" mail because I'm sooo furious at the life they've paved for me. I mean, if it wasn't for my grandmother (who's paying my tuition, apartment payment, and varrying other things), I would've killed myself a long time ago. If I believed in a God, I would've thanked him/she/it every night for her being in my life. Sometimes I even cry at night because I just happen to wonder where I'd be without her.

If I ever get out of this "whatever" I'm in, I know I'll amount to something. I have so many talents with graphics designing and web development that I know I could amount to something if I just found the right people to work for, but I fear that I will lose my chance at something like this if I keep falling into this "rut" where I worry myself to death about being able to find a women and maybe have a family someday with friends and stuff, and always feeling like theres someone out there that I need to punch or something for the way I think about the world. I blame my mother in so many ways for my lack of socializing because of my anti-thoughts on alchohol. I mean, it should be okay to maybe have a few beers of something MINIMAL with a buddy or lover or whatever every now and then, but because of her, I constantly look down on those who drink, and even make strides to stay away from people that drink... And you know what? That kind of mentality is detrimental to a college kids social life. I try to see it as a blessing in discuise though because I play it off like I just always use the time for homework and whatnot, but most of the time I'm usually at home feeling sad and lonely because theres always some people out there that I could be having fun with, but can't because I'm too affraid that there will be boo's there.

I'm sorry for typing so much, but theres just sooo many things floating around upstairs like this that sooner or later just makes me feel better to release. I just wish that there was some sort of way for me to feel that theres hope for me and my life of needing a love life as well as a social life, because I DO need these things, but I can't get them until I change some wiring in my circuitry I think. I guess thats why I'm here blabbin'. HA.

[shutterbug]

hi wolf...it's like I could have written most of this post myself. We have a lot of the same thoughts, feelings and histories with family and relationships. The main difference being that I'm 29 and still going through a lot of those things. You are SO ahead of the game....you just don't realize!

When I was your age...I was going through my 1st major depression in college. I went to a couple of counseling sessions with a really bad counselor...but I was told I was co-dependent. I didn't really know what that was...and even when it was explained to me I didn't think much about it or how to change it.---that is until a year ago when I got mixed up with a late-stage alcoholic who went on a week long binge and scared me half to death. In trying to call people who knew him and ask them if I should rush him to the hospital, I ended up finding help for myself.

His old sponser pointed me to a side group from AA called Alanon (for friends and families of alcoholics)...which you've probably heard of. I was so desperate for ANY help that I initially became obsessed with the program and of learning what it REALLY meant to be co-dependent and how that had kept me from finding real relationships and love....and how that was also keeping me miserable and unhappy.

OMG...if I had found Alanon when I was 22 and still in college....I can't even begin to imagine how beautiful my life would be! And how many wonderful people I would have in my life right now. The program truely has been a God-send in my life.

Alanon works on the basis of re-wiring that inner dialogue we have with ourselves (putting ourselves down) and to learn to focus on us and our own happiness instead of that of others...like our family and friends. For me, it was a liscense to become a little selfish for the first time in my life....and the thing I came to realize is that EVERYONE needs to be a little selfish to take care of themselves properly...so it's not really being selfish...it's being healthy!

For me and many others....growing up in an alcoholic home put up all kinds of barriers for me to have healthy relationships with anyone...including myself.

There is a friends and family of alcoholics forum on this site...which is awsome....but I would suggest finding out about local meetings in your area and attending 2-3 meetings a week, but AT LEAST 1 a week. Give it 6 meetings and then decided if it's right for you or not. It's FREE (unless you want to donate a $1 or $2 at the meetings) and the group is made up of people who know exactly what it's like to be affected by someone else's drinking.

Believe it or not....co-dependency CAN keep you from ever finding your potental happiness within relationships. (I'm a walking billboard for that evidence). So I would really like to suggest you give the program a shot. And it's not saying that you're not strong...because almost anyone that has come out of an alcoholic up-bringing (as you well know) are very strong individual's because of all we've had to endure. It just means that for me....I need a some "healthy brainwashing" to reverse what my childhood put in my head, which is a low self-esteem and self-worth, trouble in relationships or around new people or in new situations or environments, giving more of myself than I have to give just to try and make others happy (all while I'm ignoring my own happiness and not even fully taking care of myself). I also realized the "type" of people I was choosing to have relationships or friendships with were people who would never be able to give me what I needed and who would actually bring me more pain and saddness and loneliness in my life. And I'm learning how to search out healthy people and relationships because of Alanon.

I would also like to suggest trying individual counseling again. Counselors are as different as snowflakes...so try a few out until you find one you feel most comfortable with and connected to. The more you can trust and relate to the person...the more beneficial the sessions can be. And they can help you really work on self-esteem issues, thought stopping or modifying to help you stop beating yourself up mentally, how to build and keep healthy relationships...and so much more....counselors are just another tool to help you through life. I thank God for mine every day. They have all helped me so much.

And I almost hate to say this because I'm not a doctor and I don't know you really and I don't want you to get the wrong idea....but there's a small possiblitity that you mind find it beneficial to research about bipolar disorder. Now I'm NOT saying you have it. Not in the least! All I'm saying is that some of the things you've mentioned about feeling great some days and depressed other days....well it perked up my own bipolar antennas. The reason I say all this is because BD usually starts showing symptoms in college-age students and it often goes undiagnosed for years and often decades to the detrement of the person. I should have been diagnosed when i was your age...instead I was handed a few bottles of anti-depressants and sent on my way. I continued to struggle off and on with low- to medium-grade depression until this past year (for nearly 7 years undiagnosed) when I hit my 2nd and more severe major depression. In the last year, I have been bed-ridden for months, in the hospital twice, in a long-term day treatment program twice, had my meds switched about 20-30 times, lost my career job, nearly lost my home, lost all the friendships in my life who I had worked so hard to maintain and nearly committed suicide a couple of times. AND this could have all been avoided if a decent doctor or anyone else would have informed me! And the thing with BD is that it's a progressive illness so it keeps getting worse the longer it goes untreated.

I always try to tell people here about this because a large number of us who suffer re-occuring depression...well the depression is really a symptom in itself to something else like bipolar disorder, ADHD or even borderline personality disorder (the three are often mistaken for each other so it makes correct diagnosis often difficult). A couple of good sites to visit if your interested are NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness and When you need to get information - stop here first.

BUT...even if you are ONLY dealing with depression, that is plenty enough to give you difficulties in social environments and relationships. Just look at the symptoms of depression and see how each one of them can make life with other people difficult:

-persistent sad, anxious, or an "empty" feeling or mood
-recurrent crying episodes
-feelings of hopelessness, pessimism, guilt or worthlessness
-loss of interest in activities that were previously pleasurable, such as a loss of interest in sex
-sleep disturbances such as trouble falling asleep, staying asleep, waking early in the morning, or oversleeping
-changes in weight, either losing without trying or dieting or gaining a significant amount
-restlessness, irritable, "moody"
-memory difficulties or having problems making decisions
-low energy and easy fatigability
-recurring thoughts of death or suicide.

(Depression is a physical illness of the brain and it is NOT a sign of personal weakness....more than 12 million people suffer from depression each year...and a family history can mean there's even more of a chance of suffering from it...and there can sometimes be an underlying illness like thyroid problems or infections so seeing a doctor is a very good idea...and seeing a psychiatrist is an EVEN better idea)

Anyway...as you can see I'm a talker....and I just like to try and help others to learn what has taken me 29 years (and one major year of trials and studying) to come to try and understand.

I pray you overcome the depression soon. I pray that you're not bipolar...but if you are...I pray that you get all the information you need to start learning how to control it now rather than later when it can turn you life completely upside down.

My thoughts are with you tonight.
Hugs and God Bless,
Jenna

[Wolf_22]

Thanks Jenna for all the info. I don't know whether I'm bipolar of just going through things that need fixed, but either way I'm going to figure out a way to beat this because I'm not going to go through all my life like this. This is miserable... I don't know what to say about it all right now though because I spent last night thinking about most of all this stuff until 4 o'clock AM. It made me feel pretty bad too because I was really jittery with things like this on my mind and stuff. I'll check some of that Alanon out too. I figure I could probably handle a few meetings I guess. It will be hard to do, and although I may end up not doing it, I do thank you for the suggestion.

Once I typed a lot of that out, I felt better about things. I still had doubts about finding relationships and whatnot, but other than that, I felt better. I see a lot of things that I need to change about myself, and I think that I can do a lot of it myself, but with some of the stuff, I worry that I may not be able to, so I will definately consider your words Jenna. I would like to go back to counceling, but I'm somewhat reluctant to because I hate doing it the way it's done over here... I mean, the way it works over here is you wait in the lobby for your councelor or therapist or whatever to come out, and when he/she comes out, they take you into a small rooms where your sitting almost less than 3 feet from eachother. I don't know if all councelors are like this, but the therapist/councelor I have is very "machine-like" to where he'll sit there across from you with his legs crossed and his right hand holding his head up while he looks at you while you talk (the classic therapist pose). It's like in a movie or something... Weird...

Anyways, thanks for your advice. I'll check on that here in a few.

[shutterbug]

yeah...that's pretty much how most counselors/therapists/psychologist sessions work. That's why...if you have a choice...it's important to find someone you feel comfortable with. Somewho who feels more like a great friend than a doctor who's being paid to listen. There are some REALLY great ones out there! I found one on my 3rd try and she is awsome. She's one who's been there, done that and now helps others. She even helped me get over a physical illness. I am always getting really horrible sinus infections that last for months when I'm depressed. Anti-biotics just don't work. She told me to take 1000 mg of vitamin C every day until I got better. I didn't think it would really do much good...but within a week I was better! I actually just got over another horrible sinus infection the same way. So I don't bother with the stupid docs and meds anymore for sinus infections.

When I lost my insurance...I had to start seeing a state counselor and boy did I hate her. She was awful compared to the other one...Nan was her name. I told Nan about this new counselor just clucking when she was suppose to cluck and being of no real help. So Nan sent my file to her...and ever since my sessions with the new gal have been really wonderful!

Anyway...don't give up! You can make it.

Hugs,
Jenna

Oh...and P.S. if you don't feel like making it to Alanon meetings....you can ALWAYS check out the friends and family of alcoholics forum here at SoberRecovery!

[Don W]

Wolf, I can identify with not feeling others see the good in me. What has helped me is something called paradigms. These are models. We can learn the wrong information about ourselves. We then use this as a model to view ourself. Example, I grew up being told I was stupid. This was a false lesson but, I learned it and followed it for years. In turn I thought everyone also viewed me as stupid. There were times that I would advance in life and work but, still felt others believed I was stupid. They didn't of course. The problem is they didn't have that wrong imformation. I think one of my biggest problems was deciding that I could read others minds and judge their actions.
I had to learn how to reteach myself. I did this by using facts. Not, assumtions I'd arrived at. Everybody had to like me for example. One person not liking me would have me discount the other nine. I'd also decide the other 9 only like me because they didn't know how bad I was. I've just fooled them. I'm going to list a few things, see if you can identify.
I feel uncomfortable when other compliment me.
When compliments me, I deflect it and try to give others credit.
I recieve a good job but, point out my mistakes.
These are just some of the things I used to hold on to those wrong lessons. I felt hurt but, comfortable thinking people thought I was stupid. I hope some of this helps. It is hard putting these things into words. When you do, you can see that they don't make sense. I wouldn't be working in an operating room helping with surgery if I was stupid.
In the same line of thought, Wolf, we wouldn't be saying these things if we didn't see them in you. Don W

[Wolf_22]

That means a bunch Don, and despite your statement about how it's hard putting those things in words, you did it perfectly. You couldn't have hit the hammer any more on the head with that because I feel and think things like that everyday. I see where your going with all that too, and I'm going to try and change some things in my mind with that now. I always felt like it was normal... Apparently not? Just goes to show how crazy this world is because people (parents, siblings, whoever) just don't realize how much hurt is absorbed by people from day to day.

I always felt inferior to my ex best friend that used to be in a gifted & talented program back in elementary school. Whenever he'd come over to spend the night or vice versa, he'd always try to upstage me with his vast intellect. He'd always told me and everyone that he was going to try and go to MIT and be some sort of scientist or whatever, and always made fun of me for wanting to attend Tuscaloosa Alabama because my dad lived down there. He'd always say "What are you going to major in, mowing yards!? HA HA HA!" And he'd say that crap in front of his own mom and in front of all of our other friends. He's the one that went behind my back and "rigged" things with my ex-girlfriend... But you know what? He apparently wasn't as smart as he thought he was because he's now a bartender at a local "hole in the wall" near a trashy town. Funny how life works... And no, I don't feel sorry for him AT ALL.

All of these suggestions from you guys and gals is really appreciated. I'm starting to think I know where my direction is needed to be pointing, it's just getting it all turned around thats the hard part. I'm going to try and try though until it happens, so we'll see how it goes. I'm sure I'll have more bad days ahead, but I now have new weapons to use in those battles. The hardest days for me though are Sunday's because work and school is on the next day, and it's the lonliest day of the week for me. Wish me luck people, but most of all, be here for me and don't get angry with me if I am ever redundant. So far, you've been super.

Thank you so much.

p.s.- Don't know if you read anything about how I was going to ask that gal out, but I didn't see her today. Kinda was a downer, but instead got a different girl to go out with tommarrow! HAHA! Nothing big or anything; just lunch, but it's a start! Which reminds me... I did something horrible in that "initialization". I called her by different womens name. I KNOW I KNOW! It was an honest mistake though because she told me her name was "Cortney" when in fact I guess it was Morgen. I told her I felt horrible, but I guess it's not really that big of a deal because it WAS the first time I have ever called her and it was the first time we ever arranged anything. I wouldn't have been able to do all that though without you guys. You've really been an "upper".

[Don W]

I've learned the hard way. In many cases the only thing standing in the way of our potencial is ourselves. We picture ourselves as defeated and validate it with actions. Many times I wouldn't apply for something thinking they'd never pick me. Later find out they would have. Wouldn't be surprised if you did the same with MIT. You used his words to validate your belief that you were not worthy. When we ask, Why can't I? We should make it a statement, Why can't I ! When I was taking a course to be certified for my job I started out doing really well. Then the instructor told me I had one of the highest scores in the class. I felt so uncomfortable with the 98 average, that I messed up some test questions to lower my score. I just knew others wouldn't like me if I did that well. Instead, they asked me what happened, " You were doing so good ? Sabotage wasn't only apart of my recovery for years. I also used it to lower other's expectations of me to my expectations. I'd be doing so well, then they mentioned me being promoted. I'd start to call out sick and shoot myself in the foot. After they picked someone else, I'd go back to being a great employee. Telling people I was a good indian not a chief. I want to thank you wolf and the others. Like Morning Glory taught me, pulling this crap out helps us in the long term. I think we need to feel the pain we avoided. Secrets are our worse enemy and best friend of our low self esteem. Somebody told me once, If you watch at a meeting you can pick the onse that identify and understand. The ones that don't shake their head while listening, the ones that do nod their heads. You are not alone. There are many head nodding here. Don W

[Don W]

Just wanted to add a thought and here your thoughts about it. Our minds protects it's self by changeing facts to make sense. Later because of this we have problems understanding. Our inability to make sense of a situation causes stess and depression.
The more we talk and investigate our feelings, I think our mind starts to feel we can handle things. it then starts to release facts about an event. Relearning the events we can understand a deal with it. This changes our perspective caused by wrong information. Example, My father's actions taught me that I was stupid. My brain couldn't make sense of someone who should love me saying this. Believing it enabled it to understand. So by doing this it or I learned that I was stupid. The more I investigated the more I learned of the true facts. My father was ill and on medication, thorazine, and anything he said was the illness, medication or both talking. Now this made sense and I and my brain was able to relearn from facts I wasn't stupid. The bottom line is I think this is how we get better by talking. Werare able to sort things out and sometimes this triggers real memories , not falsely learned lessons. What do you guys think. I'm not even sure where this is comming from but, there must be a reason. I hope? We have many learned behaviors some good some bad. Why can't low self esteem be a bad learned behavior? If it is then hope lies in the fact that it can be unlearned. Don W

[Wolf_22]

Sounds like your onto something there. I mean, I've always wondered that, but I think that if that IS in fact the case, then there is just too many ways to "learn" that bad behavior in our world, and about 80% of it is communication (in my opinion anyways). The rest of it is misc. things like "luck" and the environment, and whatever else can affect ones mood or self-esteem that isn't any kind of human-human reaction.

[Don W]

I agree, much we are not to blame for but, we are responsible to deal with it in a responsible way. For years I'd appologize even when right. Don W