Help--mom with Borderline personality disorder

[Dawn10]

My mom has been diagnosed with Borderline personality Disorder. (BPD) Not new information for us, but as she ages, and has a myriad of physical problems that have necessitated her being a nursing home, her behavior issues are out of control. She has no mobility, so the feeling of confinement to her room is probably making things worse. My Dad is her primary emotional caregiver, although that is getting harder and harder for him to do. I can barely make myself visit and when I do, I can only make it for 30-45 minutes at a time.
Does anyone have any ESH on how they cope? How much of the behavior, (verbal abuse, whining, tries at manipulation, paranoia) can we excuse to her "illness" and how much do we challenge her on? Because of her physical condition, ( obesity, Congestive Heart failure, diabetes, peripheral neuropathy) her life is near it's end. I love my Mom, but I do not like her and that makes me very, very sad.

[eddie z.]

(((((Dawn))))),
I am struggling with similar issues with my husband although he is not physically ill. As you probably know, meds are not very useful for BPD. Is she getting any kind of psychotherapy? That would be my recommendation, maybe even some family sessions. I don't really know how to cope with this situation myself, you know. I'm just trying to get my husband back into therapy.

I've also heard that we need to read the book Walking on Eggshells. It's about how to deal with people with BPD. I'm glad you reminded me of this. Sorry I'm not more help. I just wanted to say I totally empathize with you. And I will add you and your mom and dad to my prayers!

Love and hugs,
Eddie

[2stop]

You and your mom are in my prayers. My mother has some serious psychological problems and it is very hard for me to like her also. It also makes me so very sad...an emptiness and an ache that I swear will never be eased. Please hang in there...I will keep you in my prayers.

Huge hugs coming your way.

[eddie z.]

Hey, Tammie!!!

L&H,
ez

[2stop]

Hi Eddie!! Good to see you....have missed you guys so much.

[Erratic]

sry to hear that dawn. your mum never have any therapy for her BPD?

i will say again medication does help people with BPD and the older we are actually less bpd traits we have..

here is a quote from a consultant on medication.

How useful would you say medication was in treating bpd?
Medication is of help in acute presentation of this condition, predominantly when there is lowering of mood or symptoms suggestive of abnormal experiences, including at times hearing voices. In the long-term some individuals benefit by the use of mood stabilising drugs, such as Lithium. However it is difficult to provide a definitive answer to the role of medication, as the predominant intervention is psychological therapy (talking treatments).

if you ever want to learn about bpd here is a site http://www.bpdworld.org/
there is loads of sites which offer support for families out there and a help you cope.
hope that helps..but really the older we get it is known our traits weaken and we are able to cope better.

[Dawn10]

Thanks eddie, tammie and Eratic!
Yes, she has been on meds Topamax, Wellbutrin, Zoloft, to name a few. And yes she gets therapy at the nursing home, but her pattern is, the therapist is fine and wonderful until she is challenged or disagreed with, then she stops because of some imaginary problem with them. ( never her).
Thanks for posting the site. I will check it out later today, as I am off to work very shortly.
I knew there would be ESH on this site.
Dawn

[eddie z.]

Originally Posted by Dawn10

her pattern is, the therapist is fine and wonderful until she is challenged or disagreed with, then she stops because of some imaginary problem with them. ( never her).

You're welcome, Dawn!! I know this pattern very well, too. I can't confront my husband about anything because nothing is ever his fault. Grrr...

The medication helps some but I don't think it should be used without psychotherapy. But even there, hubby manipulates people into believing his "side." I'm sorry, Dawn. I don't mean to hijack your thread.

I think I need to do some more Al-Anon meetings. Have you ever tried Al-Anon or the like, Dawn? That might help, too. Mostly I just try to see my husband's behavior for what it is. I try not to take things personally and to realize that it is NOT about me regardless of what he says. I hope this helps some!

Love and hugs,
Eddie

[dmajor7th]

Hello Dawn, I've been diagnosed as borderline and I'd bet everything I have that my mother is too. I feel the same way-I love her, but sometimes I don't like her. Same with my dad. It's very distressing. With your mother being physically ill as well, that makes it more difficult for everyone. I'm physically chronically ill too. And though borderlines do complain even when there's nothing to complain about-when you feel like crap every day, it's really difficult not to complain and because of the fact that I've complained too much my whole life-now when I have something to complain about, people have stopped listening. And I don't blame them. With your mother, I would say if she says something really nasty-call her on it, but gently. Keep the statement positive. For me at least, I don't mind so much if people call me on something that I know deep down is true, as long as it's said in a way that isn't an outright attack-and there's the rub-the walking on eggshells bit-just about anything you say to a borderline may be taken as an attack. So you could try and speak to her gently and tell her that you love her very much and realize that she is dealing with a lot, but you find it difficult to see her when she is acting this way. Or you could just try and consider that she is mentally and physically ill and aged and just tell her you love her and let it go. Being aged and sick and confined is enough to put anybody in a really bad mood, for a borderline, who has poor emotional control-it would be worse. But that's still no excuse for not trying on their part. So anyway, I just wanted to add my 2 cents. I wish you the best in this very difficult time.
Sincerely Cate.

[Dawn10]

Hi Eddie and Cate,
Thanks and Eddie, you didn't "hijack" my thread! I am hungry for any and all information and support I can get. It just feels like it is all coming to a head--again and , when you mentioned people challenging you on anything that you feel threatened--that is my mom to a tee. How do you handle the paranoia? I am noticing that is intensifying lately and really don't know how to respond to that.
Eddie, do you really think ALANON would be good for the support I need? Are they strict about being a family of friend of an alcoholic? I know some AA meetings there are those that are downright militant about only alcoholics. My mom's DOC is food, so there are addictive components to her personality.
Today, both Dad and I spoke to her and her major melt down of last night was like nothing happened. She was as sweet and normal as you and I! ( OK, what is normal, I know! )
Thanks and I really appreciate your ESH!
Dawn

[dmajor7th]

Hi Dawn, I would say about her paranoia-try not to worry about it. Stick to logical truth when confronting her. By that I mean try- and I know you're probably not Ghandi-try to keep your head and not get emotional yourself. Try to imagine what you would want someone to say to you if you felt that sick and vulnerable. If you do your best and it doesn't work. Well, you've done your best. Bolster her feeling of being loved and wanted. I know from caring for the elderly in care homes that touching is really good. I mean something simple, like brushing her hair, rubbing lotion on her hands and massaging them a bit. It feels good to be touched. It stimulates endorphins that help put you in a good mood. You could maybe stand to stay longer if there was an activity-for instance- would she enjoy being read to? Or sitting outside on a nice day-anything that may interest her. Borderlines-at least with me, are kind of like kids where if you can draw their attention away from a tantrum with a fun activity, or a joke or anything positive, that may help. Anything to derail the train of ranting thought. If she starts complaining-look over her shoulder, point excitedly out the window and say "Look at that!" When she turns around and doesn't see anything, say you thought you saw something really interesting. Then start a different conversation. Yes, I'm kind of joking, and it may sound ludicrous-but try it. Obviously I'm counting on her forgetting what she was on about. Sometimes my roomate does things like this with me and sometimes it works. Some days nothing will help and you just have to let it go. I realize all this requires a great deal of patience and strength on your behalf. Try to let her know she is important to you and that you understand that she has an awful lot to deal with. Say this to her. Borderlines are extremely emotional and sometimes because of this, they can be very empathic. And they wonder why other people aren't. Or at least, don't seem to be to them. If she says something really harsh, or you wish to convey that you cannot stand her negativity,then calmy speak your mind, trying your best not to insult her and throw some positive stuff in there. I hope I interpreted your question correctly. Take care of yourself.

Sincerely, Cate.

[eddie z.]

Originally Posted by Dawn10

her major melt down of last night was like nothing happened. She was as sweet and normal as you and I!

Wow! That's another familiar pattern!

I go to Al-Anon and just listen most of the time. Maybe CoDA would be better, if they have meetings where you are. Mostly I go just to remind me to keep the focus on myself and not get all caught up in someone else's illness.

Thanks, Cate, for all the good advice! I just don't know how to handle the attacks on me. Almost everything he accuses me of is true of him, often moreso. So he's projecting all his sh*t onto me. I want to make him see what he's doing, you know? But if I say anything, he just escalates.

Dawn, if you learn anything new, let me know, OK? lol. Have a great night, ya'll!
Love and hugs,
Eddie

[splendra]

I believe my sister could be BPD she has never to my knowledge been diagnosed BPD but her behavior sure does sound like what is being described here.

She is a crack addict and I guess I always kind of thought it was the crack but even when she is not using she is like that. I cannot even talk to her anymore cause everytime I do she seems to be able to make anything I say into an attack on her...

[dmajor7th]

"Thanks, Cate, for all the good advice! I just don't know how to handle the attacks on me. Almost everything he accuses me of is true of him, often moreso. So he's projecting all his sh*t onto me. I want to make him see what he's doing, you know? But if I say anything, he just escalates. "

No problem. I'm on the other side of the fence here in trying to help the attackee. But I'll try. Have you told him exactly what you just told me-above? Does it turn into a fight every time you speak to him? He must be capable of listening sometimes. Has he ever done any type of therapy? We all put our sh*t on each other. Everybody on earth does it to some degree. That's a common human trait. The bad we see in others is often in ourselves and the good as well. Living with a borderline is not easy, it must give you a great deal of stress. I know it is very frightening to want to stand up for yourself, but to be afraid of instead of working something out, starting a great bloody war. My roomate has mental issues as well-but he won't get help. I try to talk to him and I find if I speak what he knows to be true, in a non threatening way-he's extremely defensive-he'll admit to it. And I do too when he does it to me. If he just calls me a stupid b*tch-well that sets me off. That's really all I can say. And take good care of yourself.
Hugs, Cate. (((Eddie and Dawn)))
PS-is he on any kind of medication-this goes for your mom too Dawn-that could make it worse? If they are on any meds, that might be something to look at.

[eddie z.]

((((splendra)))),

she seems to be able to make anything I say into an attack on her...

I think that's pretty typical borderline stuff. And addiction and BPD often go together. Glad you joined the thread!

Cate,
The only medication he's on is Effexor, which actually seems to help. He was in therapy also, but hasn't been for a while. He is capable of listening sometimes but rarely when it comes to anything important. I'm thinking about delivering an ultimatum that if he doesn't go back to therapy or at least work some Steps, he has to leave.

I'm afraid though that even if he did get back into therapy, he'd manipulate the therapist into believing his BS like he did the last one. He actually had her convinced that I was the abusive one! I think maybe some couples therapy is in order really. Thanks again for all your help!

Love and hugs,
Eddie

[dmajor7th]

Eddie,
Well, I'm sorry to hear that things are that difficult. I think that everyone should really try-whether they are diagnosed with an illness or not. If people aren't capable or don't want to make an effort, then there's not much you can do except look after yourself. Maybe he will try harder if you give him an ultimatum. I hope it works out for the best.

Splendra-yes that behavior does sound like borderline-but depending on how long she stays off cocaine, it could be the cocaine too. It can really do a number on your brain. And simply being an addict fills a person with shame and they are likely to get really defensive. But a lot of addicts have some kind of mental illness. I hope she's able to get help.

Take care all, Cate.

[Dawn10]

I have decided to see my old therapist again--at least for what I call a "touch base" session. I ususally feel better after talking to her. She reminds me of coping tools I have forgotten about (or becasme to lazy to use!). My Dad as well has an appointment to see his old therapist on Monday. As much as mom's behavior effects me, it affects him 3 fold. Eddie, I really identify with what you said about your husband manipulating his therapist. Fortunately, the ones my mom has had are able to see through that and that is when she "fires" them. Does your husband have abuse in his history? My mom was sexually abused by her grandfather and although she has verbalized it, she has diminished it by saying that " it wasn't really abuse because he only did it twice". She threatened to tell her father if he continued and he stopped, but went on to abuse her sister and cousins. What I have read is that abuse is a large component to BPD.
Off to work, hope you all have a great weekend.

[eddie z.]

Yeah, I agree that abuse/trauma often leads to borderline conditions. My father-in-law was apparently abusive when my husband was growing up. I think he witnessed more than he experienced himself, but the results are the same.

Glad you and your dad are going to your therapists! Let us know how things go, OK?
Love and hugs,
Eddie

[Erratic]

yeah your right dawn abuse is one of the main factors which contribute to havning BPD but again not in all cases.. just unstable family upbringing can do it allso..

i was abused but i dont remeber alot of it only on 2 accounts myself and then on my mum side i think she was mentaly ill herself and she was a big factor in how i am today.

splendra there is 9 traits for bpd which if you get more than 5 of them is that how they diagnose you.

hope things get better for you dawn.

[recov1]

Hi, I think my husband has this. He has asked me for divorce 3 times after any little thing happens that made him feel unsafe. He has told me he is not atracted to me and he hates many things I do. Then Immediatly he tells me he loves me and he acts so sweet. My psychologist told me he is an emotional abuser. I fall in depression now. However I have a sister with the same characteristics but we saved her 5 years ago and since then and therapy and medication she is so much better now. My husband tells me he knows he hurts me everytime he mets a new woman and tells me she is the love of his life even though there is no sex and I believe him. He tries to find somebody he things is a person who is good, maybe somebody better than me. But I have try to help him so much because I pass that with my sister. Our divorce is going to be final in 3 weeks and it is affecting me so much. He withrow from me emotionally 2 months before he met this woman and I was just waiting for him, asking him to talk to me but he was too much on the internet or phorno or drinking. He asked me for divorce. He said it hurts him when he hurts me. I am his 3er wife. He said he would try a psychologist and I told him I would help him if he needs it. However my psychologist does not advice me to see him because I am a codependent, enabler or act like his mother. As a child of an alcoholic I would stay loyal even though my husband would not deserve it. My husband feels that emptiness you talk about. He tried to kill himself when he was 15 after a girlfriend left him. I want to stick around because his family live in another city and his friends just drink and think I am the strange person because I dont drink. I love him but he hurst me, my parents are afraid he would hurt me physically someday because he is tired of me. I told him about this forum. I will send him your link and maybe you can advise him sometime. He is 37 and he has so many qualities if he just would be able to believe that he has them. He said it does not count when I tell him because I want a marriage forever. It counts when other new woman say it more. He has the most of this characteristics you name here.
Is this curable. How long? Is this genetic? Is this maybe an effect because children use to laugh of his hair since he remembers or because his parent was absent all the time almost?
Does he need a psychologist or a psyquiatrist? Thanks

[Erratic]

here is the diagnostic criteria for BPD you need 5 out of 9 to be BPD

DSM

According to the DSM IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 4th Edition) ‘A person who suffers from this disorder has labile interpersonal relationships characterised by instability. This pattern of interacting with others has persisted for years and is usually closely related to the person’s self image and early social interactions. The pattern is present in a variety of settings (e.g. not just at work or home) and often is accompanied by a similar lability (fluctuating back and forth, sometimes in a quick manner) in a person’s affect [mood] or feelings. Relationships and the person’s affect may often be characterised as being shallow. A person with this disorder may also exhibit impulsive behaviours and exhibit a majority of the following symptoms:


1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment

2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self

4. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating)

5. Recurrent suicidal behaviour, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behaviour

6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)

7. Chronic feelings of emptiness

8. Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms
Anyone with six or more of the above traits and symptoms may be diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. However, the traits must be long-standing (pervasive) and there must be no better explanation for them (for example a physical illness, another mental illness or substance misuse).

[eddie z.]

(((((recov1))))),
WELCOME to SR, first of all!! And thank you for sharing your story, too!! My opinion and my advice would be, since you are divorcing from this man, to seek help for YOURSELF so you don't just end up in another similar relationship. Do you presently have a therapist? I would suggest you find one and also attend something like Al-Anon or CoDA. My first husband was probably borderline also, and an alcoholic, and I wasted alot of years trying to fix him before we split up.

I learned alot from that relationship. Like how to focus on taking care of MY wants and needs and not "babysit" my significant other. I'm not perfect at it as you can tell from my posts about my present husband, but there is still a huge difference from my old behavior and how I react now when my husband behaves like my ex. It has taken years of therapy as well as meetings to get where I am today and I plan to continue with these. Why not give them a try? I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers!

Love and hugs,
Eddie

[recov1]

Hi, I just feel like maybe God wants me to help my husband because I grew up with a bonderline, my sister and the last time she tried to suicide 5 years ago and we took her first time to therapy, my family and me gave her all the support and love and she is doing so much better now. My husband dont have his family living in this city and he does not have friends who would understand this. He wants to separate and I dont know if really what I do bothers him so much and I cause him to be more upset or is just the sickness? I love him, but he said he does not want to hurt me no more. However he said he will find therapy. Yes I have a therapist. How can he do it by himself? do you think he can? without any family. I love him with all my heart. Thanks

[Dawn10]

Your husband can do it himself---IF he wants to and nothing you can do will force him into honest therapy. Eddie is so right. You need to concentrate on yourself and why you are drawn to be the "caretaker" and "problem solver" and why doing that gets you into unhelathy relationships. I am sure you love your husband. You can still love him, but if he is sick and not working on what he needs to it is only going to hurt you.
Keep with your therapist and ask him/her if there are any support groups in your area that might be of benefit to you. With my situation, I have a small group at my church that meets weekly and they have been very supportive of my struggle with her. I have also spent time with my pastor in counseling and that has been helpful.

[recov1]

Thanks for the advises I really appreciate your all advises. I bought me a codependent book and I am going to read it. There are not groups where I live but I joined a family online group for codependents. I hope it helps. Thanks for all. I will start paying more attention to myself.
Love and hugs to everybody.