The Borderlline Personality Disorder Thread
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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Originally Posted by Firefall 
Hammer do you have any idea why they don't tell them?
Here is the typical line-up of reasons, and even how they play out for us.
1. Insurance will not pay. (dunno how the ACA/Obamacare has shifted this). Since it is considered a Long-Term, non-Treatable Condition -- Health Insurance Companies have refused payment if the formal, and titled DX is made. Sooooo. An Alternate DX is given, while the treatment may be given towards Borderline. Our version is Cash Payment.
2. The Client will not tolerate it. Definitely our case. Upon return from Rehab, STBXAW was supposed to go T. The first T said "Borderline Traits" on the second or third visit. STBXAW was looking for the Exit out of treatment immediately. So even though it was a Very Competent and Legit DX, no further Treatment occurred due to giving the DX.
3. The T may not be competent in this. This stuff is WAY beyond just "talk therapy." This is a measurable, discernible, observable, Brain Disorder that begins to develop before birth. Many T's are trained to work on and modify Behaviors. Actual Brain Dysfunction goes much deeper than that. Think of trying to do "talk therapy" to cure . . . say a Broken Arm, or Eyesight, or . . . . -- some folks in the industry just have no real idea what they are doing. That was the case with STBXAW's T at the Rehab, and may be the case with the T she has had for the last 16 months, now.
K9 Trainer, Ret. Sys Engr
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: California
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It it's awful. Nothing you can do. And living with it is impossible.
It it's like a dress comes over the whole family the moment she walks in the door.
This is not the forest Gump box of chocolates, kinda moment.
I am going to have to remove her from my home and it is breaking my heart.
It it's like a dress comes over the whole family the moment she walks in the door.
This is not the forest Gump box of chocolates, kinda moment.
I am going to have to remove her from my home and it is breaking my heart.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a good place
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Originally Posted by Hammer
One difference I hear cited is Borderlines will flip or switch personas or mood affect much quicker than Bipolar.
My sister and I no longer have a relationship and, after today, I realize we haven't had one since childhood. I can almost pinpoint when the switch was flipped with her.
Now I can love her from a distance; at least, the sister I thought I knew.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London, UK
Posts: 68
Hi, haven't been to this web site for over a year. I have a diagnosis of BPD and am receiving therapy in addition to attending 12 step meetings. My main fellowship is Dual Recovery Anonymous. Glad to see a thread on this topic.
Newbie
Join Date: May 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 109
I was diagnosed with BPD a few years ago and have had DBT treatment which helped me a lot.
Thanks for saying that.x
Originally Posted by Kyojin
The most sad thing is that my clients [with BPD] have all been through heart-wrenchingly painful trauma in their lives. Some molested countless times at young ages, others left at home alone for days by neglectful parents. One even was reminded by his mom consistently that she didn't care about him growing up, and he cannot recall a single instance of her displaying appreciation of him.
It's frustrating how many people avoid people with BPD without first attempting to look at them with a more open perspective. I think all of us would be spontaneously shifting into mentally-defensive modes/guises if we had been through such terrible things in our lifetimes.
It's frustrating how many people avoid people with BPD without first attempting to look at them with a more open perspective. I think all of us would be spontaneously shifting into mentally-defensive modes/guises if we had been through such terrible things in our lifetimes.
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From the Feds . . . the National Institute of Mental Health information . . .
NIMH · Borderline Personality Disorder
NIMH · Borderline Personality Disorder
Engineer Things; LOVE People
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No real decision, at least on my part, and Mrs. Hammer seems to bounce all over the place. Part of that Hero or Zero routine of the Black/White Victim-Rescuer-Villain Triangle.
Karpman drama triangle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
She filed a suit for custody, and we went to mediation and settled on 50/50 with 50/50 primary -- which really means No One is in charge, so there is also a Court Appointed "tie-breaker."
Seems to mean nothing and is just a waste of $25,000. That was 5 months ago, and she is still sleeping next to me every night.
Still have a Support Hearing ahead, but now she is making more than me, as I now spend more time with the kids than she does, so she seems to have no idea that she could end up owing me Child Support.
Some days -- Crazy is just Crazy.
Meanwhile, I still have One #1 Priority -- the three kids. None of the kids are named Mrs. Hammer so I know her nonsense is not a priority.
Karpman drama triangle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
She filed a suit for custody, and we went to mediation and settled on 50/50 with 50/50 primary -- which really means No One is in charge, so there is also a Court Appointed "tie-breaker."
Seems to mean nothing and is just a waste of $25,000. That was 5 months ago, and she is still sleeping next to me every night.
Still have a Support Hearing ahead, but now she is making more than me, as I now spend more time with the kids than she does, so she seems to have no idea that she could end up owing me Child Support.
Some days -- Crazy is just Crazy.
Meanwhile, I still have One #1 Priority -- the three kids. None of the kids are named Mrs. Hammer so I know her nonsense is not a priority.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
No real decision, at least on my part, and Mrs. Hammer seems to bounce all over the place. Part of that Hero or Zero routine of the Black/White Victim-Rescuer-Villain Triangle.
Karpman drama triangle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
She filed a suit for custody, and we went to mediation and settled on 50/50 with 50/50 primary -- which really means No One is in charge, so there is also a Court Appointed "tie-breaker."
Seems to mean nothing and is just a waste of $25,000. That was 5 months ago, and she is still sleeping next to me every night.
Still have a Support Hearing ahead, but now she is making more than me, as I now spend more time with the kids than she does, so she seems to have no idea that she could end up owing me Child Support.
Some days -- Crazy is just Crazy.
Meanwhile, I still have One #1 Priority -- the three kids. None of the kids are named Mrs. Hammer so I know her nonsense is not a priority.
Karpman drama triangle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
She filed a suit for custody, and we went to mediation and settled on 50/50 with 50/50 primary -- which really means No One is in charge, so there is also a Court Appointed "tie-breaker."
Seems to mean nothing and is just a waste of $25,000. That was 5 months ago, and she is still sleeping next to me every night.
Still have a Support Hearing ahead, but now she is making more than me, as I now spend more time with the kids than she does, so she seems to have no idea that she could end up owing me Child Support.
Some days -- Crazy is just Crazy.
Meanwhile, I still have One #1 Priority -- the three kids. None of the kids are named Mrs. Hammer so I know her nonsense is not a priority.
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: east coast
Posts: 1,332
Oh man I know that triangle. I have been in it with my mom and sisters forever.
How do the kids cope with this roller coaster of a life? Do you think that you are able to meet their needs and model what a normal healthy person is supposed to look like? As dad I think its your responsibilty to show your sons what a good man is and for your daughter you show how a man should treat a woman. But, are you able to do that in your current enviornment?
How do the kids cope with this roller coaster of a life? Do you think that you are able to meet their needs and model what a normal healthy person is supposed to look like? As dad I think its your responsibilty to show your sons what a good man is and for your daughter you show how a man should treat a woman. But, are you able to do that in your current enviornment?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 124
Here is one I just read on Mad In America, The Scarlet Label: Close Encounters With ‘Borderline Personality Disorder’
The Scarlet Label: Close Encounters With ‘Borderline Personality Disorder’ (Part 2) | Mad In America
___________
I liked this girl with BPD traits in the meetings but I kept getting stuck in these no win situations when ever we hung out, no win for me anyway and it seemed very planned to make me the bad guy for manipulation purposes. I just got tired of it.
The Scarlet Label: Close Encounters With ‘Borderline Personality Disorder’ (Part 2) | Mad In America
___________
I liked this girl with BPD traits in the meetings but I kept getting stuck in these no win situations when ever we hung out, no win for me anyway and it seemed very planned to make me the bad guy for manipulation purposes. I just got tired of it.
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Nottingham UK
Posts: 241
It must be tough dealing with all the bad press BPD's get on this board, but it does seem that a great many behave abusively to people around them. The folks on this thread are actively seeking to modify their behaviour and care about the effect they are having on others.
They seem to represent one end of the spectrum, at the other end of which lie those that
a) cannot accept their is anything wrong with their cognitive processes and resist treatment
b) have highly selective empathy - only for those they are "splitting white", and even then, their empathy is based onto the feelings they are projecting onto that person, rather than what they might be trying to tell them
c) have a rather weak moral compass - at best a very cynical view of the world, the complete opposite of idealism.
BPD on this end of the spectrum either become a victim, by entering a relationship with another abuser, or they end up becoming an abuser themselves. Hence sites like Shrink4men etc. They paint a rather hopeless picture for BPD sufferers but they have an important role in helping men recognise psychological abuse from their partner, and reality checking them into realising escape is the only option. Particularly egregious anecdotes of partners who appear completely psychotic and sociopathic along with their BPD / HPD symptoms.
I wonder what makes the difference between program-working and psychotic-abusive BPDs? Is the condition simply less severe in those that seek treatment, they retain some insight into their condition and are not completely in thrall to their instincts, or are they simply, "nicer" to begin with, in that they experience remorse for their actions towards others, where abusive types might actually experience feelings of satisfaction and triumph in the same situations?
I decade or so ago, i knew a girl who i am now certain was BPD. I'd known her from work and had been out partying with her before, she moved to another country but we stayed in touch via email. Then my housemates in my current residence were leaving the country and i needed to find new ones, in a miraculous coincidence, this girl emailed to say she was coming back to UK that very same week ! Off I went and signed a 6 month contract to rent the house between the two of us...
There was a week overlap where this new girl stayed in the spare room before my old housemates departed, during which she was the same fun-loving, carefree spirit i knew from work. The moment they left, a switch flipped and she became instantly abusive. Isolating, gaslighting, raging, crying, threats and false allegations, you name it. I simply had to tough it out, tied into this six month contract and being unable to afford to move again - she wasn't paying her way either, lasting no more than a day or two at any job before having a huge bust up with her boss or colleagues.
When this six month period ended, and i could cut and run at any time, she suddenly became much nicer - though still rather hard work to be honest. I tried using non-accusatory "I" statements when she said something hurtful, but this just seemed to result in her focusing attacks better over areas i was most sensitive. Ironically, she'd previously been the victim of domestic abuse herself. It is possible that she'd suffered some kind of trauma while abroad, or was suffering some kind of PAWS (she never gave details, but mentioned she'd fallen in with a crowd of bad people and may have been taking something ) which explains why her behaviour was most aberrant at first. Or she's just an abuser and knew i had no place else to go.
I wonder if this is a good test though if you suspect a BPD partner... their response to "I" statements letting you know whether the sort of behaviour modifications talked about on bpdfamily.com can manage the relationship or whether to just cut and run.
In "Friends and Family of Alcoholics" section, you sometimes see threads asking if alcoholics ever feel remorse, and you get responses from recovered alcoholics stating categorically that they do ofc, they simply buried feelings of guilt with more booze. But I wonder, the guys who care enough about the people around them to eventually stop drinking, work a program and make amends, are unfortunately in the minority. They come across as nice people who got a really bad habit, but how representative are they of the rest, the unrepentant?
They seem to represent one end of the spectrum, at the other end of which lie those that
a) cannot accept their is anything wrong with their cognitive processes and resist treatment
b) have highly selective empathy - only for those they are "splitting white", and even then, their empathy is based onto the feelings they are projecting onto that person, rather than what they might be trying to tell them
c) have a rather weak moral compass - at best a very cynical view of the world, the complete opposite of idealism.
BPD on this end of the spectrum either become a victim, by entering a relationship with another abuser, or they end up becoming an abuser themselves. Hence sites like Shrink4men etc. They paint a rather hopeless picture for BPD sufferers but they have an important role in helping men recognise psychological abuse from their partner, and reality checking them into realising escape is the only option. Particularly egregious anecdotes of partners who appear completely psychotic and sociopathic along with their BPD / HPD symptoms.
I wonder what makes the difference between program-working and psychotic-abusive BPDs? Is the condition simply less severe in those that seek treatment, they retain some insight into their condition and are not completely in thrall to their instincts, or are they simply, "nicer" to begin with, in that they experience remorse for their actions towards others, where abusive types might actually experience feelings of satisfaction and triumph in the same situations?
I decade or so ago, i knew a girl who i am now certain was BPD. I'd known her from work and had been out partying with her before, she moved to another country but we stayed in touch via email. Then my housemates in my current residence were leaving the country and i needed to find new ones, in a miraculous coincidence, this girl emailed to say she was coming back to UK that very same week ! Off I went and signed a 6 month contract to rent the house between the two of us...
There was a week overlap where this new girl stayed in the spare room before my old housemates departed, during which she was the same fun-loving, carefree spirit i knew from work. The moment they left, a switch flipped and she became instantly abusive. Isolating, gaslighting, raging, crying, threats and false allegations, you name it. I simply had to tough it out, tied into this six month contract and being unable to afford to move again - she wasn't paying her way either, lasting no more than a day or two at any job before having a huge bust up with her boss or colleagues.
When this six month period ended, and i could cut and run at any time, she suddenly became much nicer - though still rather hard work to be honest. I tried using non-accusatory "I" statements when she said something hurtful, but this just seemed to result in her focusing attacks better over areas i was most sensitive. Ironically, she'd previously been the victim of domestic abuse herself. It is possible that she'd suffered some kind of trauma while abroad, or was suffering some kind of PAWS (she never gave details, but mentioned she'd fallen in with a crowd of bad people and may have been taking something ) which explains why her behaviour was most aberrant at first. Or she's just an abuser and knew i had no place else to go.
I wonder if this is a good test though if you suspect a BPD partner... their response to "I" statements letting you know whether the sort of behaviour modifications talked about on bpdfamily.com can manage the relationship or whether to just cut and run.
In "Friends and Family of Alcoholics" section, you sometimes see threads asking if alcoholics ever feel remorse, and you get responses from recovered alcoholics stating categorically that they do ofc, they simply buried feelings of guilt with more booze. But I wonder, the guys who care enough about the people around them to eventually stop drinking, work a program and make amends, are unfortunately in the minority. They come across as nice people who got a really bad habit, but how representative are they of the rest, the unrepentant?
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Some good insights, Liberator. Thank You.
From my observations, the BIG Go/No Go divider line is: Honesty.
Look at the BPDs that have spoken on this thread.
They are being honest. Honesty gives one a chance at Recovery.
AA Big Book covered this in the Opening Paragraph of Chapter 5.
Written about 80 years ago, before Modern Psych or Brain Scans, or Meds . . . and they seem to have it figured out just by observations.
================
Chapter Five
HOW IT WORKS
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our directions. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a way of life which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
From my observations, the BIG Go/No Go divider line is: Honesty.
Look at the BPDs that have spoken on this thread.
They are being honest. Honesty gives one a chance at Recovery.
AA Big Book covered this in the Opening Paragraph of Chapter 5.
Written about 80 years ago, before Modern Psych or Brain Scans, or Meds . . . and they seem to have it figured out just by observations.
================
Chapter Five
HOW IT WORKS
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our directions. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a way of life which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
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