Salvia

[Mamabear]

Can anyone tell me about salvia? My son who is bipolar 2 and we thought was doing well has relapsed. He is using salvia with tobacco and weed. He has been delusional. Now he is in and out of delusions. We had to hospitalize him and it is the most painful day I have ever experienced. What a shift. We thought he had progressed so much. I'm terrified of long term effects.
Thanks for any info.
love,
Mamabear

[OmEgA-X1]

Hello Mamabear,

First off let me tell you my regrets for the condition of your son, its a shame what happened.

Salvinorin A, the active ingredient in the hallucinogenic plant Salvia, is the second most powerful isolated hallucinogen thus far known to man only seconded by LSD.

I have done countless hours of research refrencing first hand experiences with scientific data about this hallucinogen.

The effects of smoked Salvia last only 15 minutes, and the chemical stays in the system only for 3 days thereafter. There are no long term mental conditions caused by Salvia that are known, and with so much data and reports on salvia, if there was ever any found, it would probably require consistent high dosages over a very long period of time, which doesnt sound like the case for your son. Salvia is relatively harmless though it can cause temporary distress.

This being a hallucinogen however, it is very possible it can trigger latent functions within the psyche. Therefor, if your son is mentally unstable it can set off those instabilities. If your son is having persistent delusions however, he should be diagnosed for schizophrenia or a related mental illness. Though the Salvia would not of caused it, it is very possible that he was on his way to developing it (schizophrenia usually develops in early adulthood) and this hallucinogen would of triggered it, unfortunately if he were to be diagnosed with it, it would of onset on him eventually regardless.

As a concerned parent I can understand your distrought about the situation. Salvia however has been used for millenia and has never directly caused any such mental conditions. Salvia also is very effective for introspective analysis, as are many other hallucinogens. If the educated about this plant use it responsibly, it can contribute to a
state of mental well-being. However, if uneducated users use it simply "to get high", as many do, it may cause problems for those with mental illnesses, and also may cause unexpected temporary stress on those inexperienced with other hallucinogens as the "trip" of this plant has been said to be more intense than a dose of LSD, though alot shorter lived.

There are also studies that marijuana use may contribute to the onset of schizophrenia for those who will already develop it, though no direct corelation has been found, and is very unlikely to be the cause of any of your sons problems.

I hope this information has been useful and I hope your sons condition is only temporary, If he gets better I suggest you inform him he should educate himself about the things he is consuming before he does, and with already existing mental instabilities, I would strongly recommend that under any situation he avoids any hallucinogenic drugs.

PS: for further research about Salvia and its active ingredient, I suggest researching http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia.shtml for non-biased information.

PSS: Here is an exerpt of a Case report about Salvia treating (rather than causing) a mental illness...

A case report of a 26 year old woman with treatment-resistant chronic depression who reports long lasting alleviation of symptoms with acute and chronic administration of Salvia divinorum.

Excerpt: Ms. G volunteered that she has also benefited from occasional intoxicating oral doses of salvia divinorum, consisting of from 8?16 leaves of the herb (approximately 2 to 4 grams), claiming that this herb had engendered a kind of "psychospiritual" awakening, characterized by the discovery of the depth of her sense of self, greater self-confidence, increased feelings of intuitive wisdom and "connectedness to nature."

[pedagogue]

I did a quick search on Salvinorin A and it was really interesting.

OmEgA-X1, what neurotransmitter(s) does Salvinorin A act on? I was curious to see if it also effects D2 (like cocaine), which has been linked to schizophrenia. (Over-abundance of Dopamine)

From what I have briefly read about it, Salvinorin A seems like it can be problematic in high dosages because of the varied (and sometimes unstable) reactions it causes.

-pedagogue

[OmEgA-X1]

As you know cocaine is not a hallucinogen, the method of its action produces little effect but to release dopamine which causes addiction. Hallucinogens do not have much effects on the dopamine system (short of ecstasy and maybe a few other rare cases I do not know of) and are not addicting. In fact, hallucinogenic chemicals have been found to be the most successful treatment for addictions, especially serious ones like that for Heroin. Almost all hallucinogens have effects on the serotonin system.

Salvinorin A is a very special case however, and is truely unique. Till 2002 the method of action was unknown. Recently however it has been found to be the only natural hallucinogen to work on the kappa-opioid receptors. There have been synthetic drugs that are kappa-opioid receptor agonists created in the past, namely Enadoline, which has reportedly similar effects of Salvinorin A (possibly even identical).

Very little is actually known about the kappa-opioid receptors except for its unusual psychedelic effects. Research is vauge and suggests it is part of a system to modulate human perception.

However, as far as psychosis and delusions go, I suspect the actions of this hallucinogen to be very similar to those acting on the serotonin system, meaning they do not actually induce or cause those effects, but merely bring those latent functions forward. Like I've stated, Salvinorin A has been consumed for milenia with no reported cases of it causing any form psychosis or schizophrenia, and I'm very interested in learning the outcome of your son, Mamabear.

If your son does not seem to get better Mamabear, would I be so bold as to say you should suggest to your doctor or psychiatrist the use of naltrexone (general opioid antagonist)? Technically it should block the effects of Salvinorin A, and possibly any psychosis or delusions related to the kappa-opioid system. Then again, your son may very well become completely normal once the Salvinorin A completely leaves his system, which is a total of three days. It is said though the general effects of Salvinorin A only last a total of 30 minutes, there are very mild usually unnoticable effects lasting until the 3 day mark. This is a most interesting learning experience...

[pedagogue]

Originally Posted by OmEgA-X1

...hallucinogenic chemicals have been found to be the most successful treatment for addictions, especially serious ones like that for Heroin. Almost all hallucinogens have effects on the serotonin system.

Some of the best uses of hallucinogens (mainly LSD) have been with PTSD survivors. It has shown to be effective in a clinical setting with proper medical supervision.

I believe Exstacy (depending on what it is cut with) can effect D2, 5HT2A, and neuroepinephrine....and possibly GABA. I'm not sure if MDMA can be any more or less effective than the LSD, but it would be an interesting study.

To answer your question above about other drugs....PCP can fall into the category of hallucinogen+ other. (It can also be a stimulant or depressant depending on the chemical variation in addition to some other factors) Also, amphetamine psychosis can cause hallucinations and delusions, and and believe the amphetamines effect primarily D2 and not 5HT.

-pedagogue