He's coming out today....

[Kimnat]

Hi folks...
My father-in-law : the story continues
He's coming out from the hospital today. This is the 2nd time en the last 6 weeks that he's been there, but this time, the doctor's have given up. Besides being a 30-year alcoholic, he is a bi-polar who doesn't take his pills, is narcissic, spends his money like it is water and has become violent in the last few months. He tried to attack a nurse and also the ambulance driver who picked him up.
I've posted (before the problems on this site) about the fact that we receive his mail at our house, including all the bills....we also get the phone calls about the appartments he has rented (2 were reserved for april). He has told the doctors that he will take his pills, go to AA and go live in his cottage. Ha. They obviously believed this as he is now being released.

I am afraid. Afraid of this man that comes to our house in a taxi, that shows up at my husband's work, who asked friends and relatives for money (but none of them want to see him anymore), who phones me at work 4 or 5 times in a row, who phones at nite. My husband has been telling him for weeks to stop calling, and has told him thta he needs a break from his father. But nothing registers. I have a 7-year old boy and want to shield him from this man when he's not in an acceptable state. We used to see him until 2 months ago, when everything started to deteriorate.

We can stop the mail from coming by asking the post office, change our phone number, even ask the courts (eventually) that he not be allowed near our home.

But I will not sell my home or change my life for this man and his sickness. We cannot help him. But I will not let him hurt me or my family.

Discouraged

[ksos]

It is this type of post which reminds me how much I need to remain sober and to take my psychiatric medication. I can't even imagine the pain that you and your family are in over dealing with this family member who is so impaired and doesn't understand, or appear to, at least, all of the implications that his behavior is causing you and your family.

I was so frightening to everyone when I was manic. I threatened my wife, I was unable to work for a period, we had a young child, and by not adhering to medical protocol, I nearly destroyed my entire life, not to mention the lives of my child and wife. I have so much empathy for you and your situation. Of course, I was on the other side, the one who was not accepting the help that was there and was needed. The only thing that worked for my family was giving me the ultimatum. Go to a psychiatrist, stop using drugs and if you don't, have a nice life.

As harsh is it may sound, your father-in-law cannot be permitted to do this to your life and to your child's life. You must truly do what you said you would do in your last sentence. He cannot hurt you or your family any more. That's simply stating that you are no longer accepting the unacceptable. Maybe in time, something will click in him and he will finally realize that his behavior has resulted in him losing his family. But, maybe he won't. That's up to him. I hope that you remain strong in your convictions and may G-d bless you and your family.

[Justme57]

I totally agree with the above post ! You and your husband MUST do everything to protect your children and yourselves from the harm, both physical and emotional , that this man is inflicting .

I too am an Alcoholic, and believe me, he wont stop til he is good and ready . he has no care or concern about the havoc he is causing, and i know from experience , that he MUST be made to suffer the consequences of his actions , before there is even a chance he MAY seek help at all.

You have my utmost sympathy , i feel so sorry that you are going thru this , but PLEASE take whatever steps you both need to , to keep yourselves safe , both physically and emotionally

We are here for you , kep posting , and good luck

HUGX

Lee

[Kimnat]

Thanks to you 2,

I'm sorry if I don't sound understanding, but that isn't the case. I think I was extremely patient but have gotten to the end of that.

I'm just worried about the escalating violent tendencies: if we were to say "enough is enough, don't call and don't come by, and we mean it", what will happen? Instead of the phone ringing at 3 a.m. will it be the door? How far will this go?

Sorry, I just think the only way I will feel safe is if he is in prison or deceased. It's been a long time since we have slept well, I am tired.

Kimnat

[Justme57]

Kimmat , I dont think you lack understanding at all. !!!!!!!!!!!! you are in a dreadful situation. I guess no one can predict how it will go if you take those steps , but you BOTH have to have a united front in this , I think, and just tell him, ( when he is sober ) enough is enough .I am not from the USA so I dont know if you can get what we call an AVO which is an order from the court , to stop him bothering you .
You definitely need to change your phone #

i do wish you all the very best

Keep safe and stay in touch

HUGX
Lee

[Kimnat]

Hi Lee,

I'm not from the US either but I know we can get a court order in Canada but what's the point? He doesn't respect us, the hospital, the ambulance driver or the cops....so what would change? He'd come anyway, and I'm not being negative, just realistic.

He called tonite and asked his son to wait tonite for a call because someone would phone us to help with his moving his things....we said we had not planned on staying next to the phone all nite but it was expected... from him.

Am I a "normie" compared to you? I've seen others post this term and it feels strange, as if alcohol and drugs were the only things that make people "ab-normie".

I'd really like to get away from all this. We are getting married this June and all my futur-husband is thinking about is whether or not his Dad will show up, and in what state, in front of 25 friends....

Ah sh___, sorry. Things could be worse. But I'm convinced about changing the # and the mail address, but my husband still has a way to go. His mom died 8 years ago (of diabetes), and he's an only child (who also has diabetes, imagine the effects these past months), so the bond with his Dad is hard to sever. I respect this, but am still afraid of the consequences.

You know, I found this site when I was looking for a helping hand, and boy did I find the right place. Everyone here has a story, has been thru it, has endured enough, or has battled with demons...

It feels good to share. Now I just have to convince my husband (futur) that other people do exist that have been thru this.

We have unplugged the phone, as it has not stopped ringing since 21h30.

Good nite and thanks

Natkim-who-is-trying-to-understand

[ksos]

Originally Posted by Kimnat

Thanks to you 2,

I'm sorry if I don't sound understanding, but that isn't the case. I think I was extremely patient but have gotten to the end of that.

I'm just worried about the escalating violent tendencies: if we were to say "enough is enough, don't call and don't come by, and we mean it", what will happen? Instead of the phone ringing at 3 a.m. will it be the door? How far will this go?

Sorry, I just think the only way I will feel safe is if he is in prison or deceased. It's been a long time since we have slept well, I am tired.

Kimnat

In the USA, family members can get what is called a Mental Hygiene Warrant. This is obtained via family court and the family must go to the court in person and simply present verbal and/or written evidence of the individual's psychiatric or, in some cases, substance abuse history which manifests in some level of dangerous, disruptive, or harrassing behavior towards the person(s) involved. What would happen is that, once this is in place, when the police are called on the individual, that person is taken to a psychiatric emergency room, not to jail. One problem. It does not ensure admission to an inpatient unit, only a psychiatric evaluation, which would be done in an emergency room. I coordinate an emergent psychiatric program and we have a mobile crisis team which assists patient's families in this. It is a rather simple process, in any event. Most folks don't know about this option. I think I read that you are from Canada and, of course, you may not have this legal venue avaliable.

There is also another course of action which is often used and you may have read about it. AOT. Assisted Outpatient Treatment. This is a court mandate placed on the individual, which orders that person to comply with outpatient treatment and take medication. If they fail to comply, that person is placed involuntarily into a psychiatric inpatient unit. This is an extreme measure, but is used in the USA in cases like yours.

Again, if you do not live in the US, you would have to investigate these options or options like these, in your country. Perhaps you can find resources on the web by searching AOT or mandated treatment.

Of course, there is the more conventional method which is to get a restraining order of protection. Again, I do not know if your country has this as a legal option, but, as an example, my wife needed to get one from a patient of hers, who assaulted her. That person cannot go near my wife, contact her, or be within a certain proximity of her, lest she gets arrested. In my spouse's case, if this person should violate the order, she will immediately imprisoned, based on the original charge of assault, which was dropped under the conditions outlined above.

I wish I knew about more resources for you and your family as this is truly a horrible situation for all concerned.

[Kimnat]

Hi ksos,
Thanks for all this info, I do know that in Canada the last option mentionned is available. What we have done in the last few days is inform the immediate family (one of his brothers) of the escalating problems. My husband being an only child, all the events of the last months (even years) have been shared together (me and him) because no one else in the family wanted anything to do with him (father-in-law) after years of trying to help and not succeeding. My F-I-L has gone to live at his brothers camp, out in the woods with no running water, no car and the place is still snowed in. At least the brother now knows what is going on and will try to help as best he can.
Is it normal that I'm fed up?
Yesterday my husband, who drinks about once every 3 months (he a diabetic and seeing that his Dad has been thirsty for the last 30 years...), went on a super bender...he ended up hitting the hotel room wall and hurting his hand. At that time we were with friends, playing our annual 20$ at the casino and having fun, but things started degenarating and went from bad to worse. The evening was a disaster, but I can't help felling it's a symptom of the unbelievable pressure he has been under.

Will this ever stop?

We're looking for other ressources but as long as a person is not a danger to himself or to others, here in Québec he will not be considered for "forced" treatment...do we have to wait for that knock on the door at 3 a.m. or to find him somewhere....

Oh well, that's the way it is, tomorrow is another day!

Thanks for your support and understanding. Feels good to know I can reach out and be understood.

Kimnat

[ksos]

Kimnat...

It's normal to be fed up. The frustration of living around uncontrollable people is something only my family can relate to since I was the one always out of control. I was lucky that I had one ounce of sense left in me, since I never would have seen a psychiatrist and complied with medications on my own. That's how powerful my bi-polar phase was. And like your F-I-L, I was not receptive to reason. Actually, I'm not even sure I had one ounce of common sense since my wife had to give me an ultamatum--go to a psychiatrist or get the hell out of the house. In retrospect, I cannot believe some of the things I did when I was manic.

I know now what you and your family are going through. If a restraining order is avaliable, maybe it can be a consideration. It is very difficult to diagnose dangerousness when the person is doing dangerous things and acting out of control. This is why our crisis outreach teams are there--to assist families in getting the person into the ER. But even then, we have to perform unorthodox moves, as patients do have rights. To get a person admitted when there is a fuzzy line between dangerousness and bizarre behavior, requires us to make a very convincing story.

[ksos]

Sorry, I forgot one thing. Your husband ought not to drink at all if he is a diabetic. I have diabetes and if he is on meds or taking insulin, he could really hurt himself...just my feeling.

[Kimnat]

Hi ksos,
You're right of course, my hub should not drink at all but I guess it's the way he found this time to lower the pressure and finally cry. It's like having a piece of real cake at his birthday....even if he's a diabetic he has to allow for some exceptions on occasion. With drinking, the risk is low blood sugar in the following hours, so believe me I was around to watch out for him.
For the rest, my hub has finally reached out to the family to get help; he called and uncle and an aunt and explained the situation of the last few months. A meeting with resources is planned for tomorrow, to find out whether we can find a legal way to help him. The important thing is that now he's not the only one having to support the weight of decisions to make.
I'm glad you still had, as you put it, an ounce of sense that allowed you to seek and obtain help, even if an ultimatum maybe gave you a push in the right direction. I'm glad you made it, cause today you are there to help someone in need....
Thanks
Kimnat

[Justme57]

Good Morning Kimmat

I am just dropping by to see how you are going. I am glad that Ksos has been able to give you so much advice . I just wanted you to know that I have been thinking of you , and I am glad you are finally getting some support from the rest of the family .

HUGX
Lee

[ksos]

Lee and Kimnat:

I coordinate the exact type of emergent psychiatric service that would be able to help this situation out--and it's frustrating, I'm sure, for Kimnat, to not have our type venue avaliable. What we do is work with the patient and the families who are so effected by their family member's psychiatric and/or substance induced behaviors. I suppose that I get pretty passionate about this for two reasons. One, it is my career. Secondly, I was one of those people who was very much like K's F-I-L. I have personally been going through some reflection on that part of my life since, lately, I've been going through a phase that I don't want to take my medication and, as recently as two days ago, my wife had to remind me that if I made that decision, I also made the decision to not live in my home if I should become dangerous.

As a consumer, I can readily relate to the resistance of taking psychiatric medications, especially mood stabilizers. They make you tired, you tend to gain weight while on them, and there can be severe side effects with some of them. That said, I needed to meet with my psychiatrist and discuss this, once again, for the twentieth time. Simply put, she told me that it's my decision. I know that and I've decided to remain on my medication.

Sometimes those of us with Bi-polar Disorder truly enjoy the other phase of our illness--the one which allows us to let loose, to not adhere to societal boundaries, to spend money wildly, to do things to excess. I miss that, sometimes. Problem is, I'm not a "happy" manic. I become extremely irritable and psychotic, which is always the piece I seem to forget. I am rather large in stature and although I am gentle as a kitten when medicated, I become quite frightening when I am sick. I know that I cannot be non-medicated as I am a danger to others and will be involuntarily committed if I become that way. I would also lose my job. And I would lose the right to see my kid.

That's what keeps me compliant.

[Kimnat]

Hi Lee and Ksos,
Your support is like a band-aid on an open sore: it helps to take away the pain while things heal. I know I will not solve his problems, that only he can do that. I'm also aware that, as Ksos put it, some resources are lacking here to help families have access to different options for caring for loved ones who are in trouble. I'm looking forward to my husband's return from the meeting tonite to know what, if anything, can be done in our situation.
Ksos : I hope that by reading me (or others) you will continue to find the strength to go one with your medication. When we reach out and someone is there to help (like I did), the feeling is like having another pair of shoulders to help support, temporarily, a great weight. Your understanding and replies in the last few days have comforted me a great deal, and I can understand your wife wanting you te remain as stable as possible, because you seem like such a great person. Hang in there! I have no idea what goes on in your mind when you get the urge to stop your medication, but I hope that you'll find the way to resist these urges and that with time, this will become easier.

Thanks again both of you
Kimnat-who-feels-better

[Justme57]

Morning Kimmat and Ksos

Yes Ksos, I would like to add my encouragement , I remember your first posts , and how tormented you sounded then, you have been sounding fantastic of late , I have been so glad to see you getting " better "


HUGE HUGX

Lee

[Juls]

Kimnat,

That is definitely a nightmare you are having to deal with, and I agree that taking any legal steps you can would be a good idea. We've never met before, but my name is Juls and I am the moderator for this forum. You haven't seen me here lately because our computer has been down for quite awhile, but I want to welcome you the forum. Use all the available human resources you can to protect yourself and your family from this man.

I remember after my mother divorced my alcoholic step-father, (I was young, maybe 7 or 8), we had something similar because he would come over drunk and pound on the door screaming to be let in. When I would be home alone after school and he would do this I would be so terrified I would hide in my closet. (I was a latchkey kid). My mother did get a restraining order and several times had to call the police to intervene.

I will be sending prayers your way for peace, strength, and guidance in dealing with this horrendous situation.

Juls

[Kimnat]

Hi, am back
You know what? Life goes on. That's all I can say tonite, because as much as I would like things to change, I cannot change them myself.
And not being in control is the hardest thing for me to understand and accept.
My husband is sick, he has diabetes. I cannot cure him. But yesterday we bought an insulin pump, it is worth 6500$....for me this is not spending, it is an investment in life.
I cannot cure his diabetes but financially we can give it all we have to have many more healthy years ahead of us.
SO I am mad that his Dad, who is otherwise healthy (physically) is just letting his life go down the drain when there are so many beautiful things to be alive for!

Juls, I just cannot imagine the effect this (what you said) would have on a young child... my son is almost 7, I just don't want him to be scared of anyone in his family (of strangers, ye! but this is different). I refuse to let him have to live thru this, because if you speak of it now, it's because you do remember, hun?

So I don't hope anything. Things will happen and I will deal with them, one at a time.

Kimnat