Am I gambling?

[Lilya]

Nothing like the big, beautiful fjords, deers in the forest, pinetrees and real furcoats - yes, real- in the cold to make you wonder.

As most of you know, I´m scheduled for my laser op on the 19th in Paris. I was watching the sunset and packing my things for Oslo when I thought: And will I be able to watch this later? Will I see the paintings and sculptures in the Louvre? Will I see Paris in a blur?

I have been dreaming of this laser op for years and finally I have the means. I have passed the necessary tests and they say I will be fine. I might suffer from blurriness for a few weeks and my eyes will feel a bit dry. They say it will go away and in any case they have the methods and means to deal with it.

I feel I´m gambling, and I´m scared. I´m going to do it because it´s a dream and a goal I have finally reached. Do you know anything about these laser ops? Do you know of anyone who´s done it?

Use adversity

[lurkings]

You talking about the lasic surgery so you don't have to where glasses or contacts right?

My Aunt did that and have LOVED it. She had really bad vision and is seeing 20/15 in both eyes. My mom really wants to have it done an so does my boss if that accounts for anything.

[historyteach]

My old doc had it done. It was great for a while, but, then his eyes changed again, and he had to go back to glasses. It was a bit over a year he didn't have to wear them.
Of course, he is diabetic too, so, they often have eye problems.
Good luck to you!

[Mamabear]

Many friends have had it and love it. Be calm and centered. You'll do well.
(((peace)))
Mamabear

[Lilya]

Thanks,

I need all the encouragement I can get. It´s kind of scary to have your eyes sliced like a hamburger, as the nurse told me in those lovely words.

I´ll be calm and I´m preparing myself to do it. They say as I took the proper tests for it, it should be quite safe.

Lurkings, an answer to one of my riddles lies in this thread.

Does anyone else know first or second hand?

Use adversity

[woodtick]

Lilya,
I'm assuming you are talking about Lasik surgery. Don't worry, it's not too bad of a procedure. How do I know you ask? Well, I had it done about three years ago in Toronto, Canada. There was Canadian eye clinic that was doing the procedures for $500 per eye versus $2500 per eye for an American Eye doctor. Since my wife worked for the airlines and we fly for free, we decided to go to Toronto and make a weekend of it. BTW, Toronto is a wonderfull city.

Here is what I remember about the procedure:

On the day before surgery, I had a complete eye exam including a digital maping of my eye's corneal contour. The digital maping is how they determined the number of seconds the lazer blasts your eye. The clinic staff gave me a tour of the clinic and explained the procedure in detail. I was also able to view a procedure being done at the time through a viewing window.

Day of surgery:
Prior to surgery they gave me one of those "magic" pills to relieve anxiety and some eye drops to numb the pain. I then went into the operating room and laid on a nice, big well-padded table. The procedure started by placing a tool on my eyelids of one eye to keep them open. The next step was the least comfortable of all, cutting the flap. I remember trying to pull my head back into the padding on the table. Not because of pain but just because of a natural instinct to protect my eye. The cutting instrument puts a lot of pressure on the eyeball, in retrospect I remember thinking at this point "This is sort of medieval process, but at least it doesn't hurt." As he applies the instrument to the eye you start to loose your vision until it is completely gone. Eventually you see nothing through your eye, completely black no light. I could see how someone might start "freaking out" at this point because you are literally blind in one eye until he finishes cutting the flap and removes the tool. The tool then cuts the flap and the doctor removes the tool from your eyeball. My vision came back somewhat at this point, but from what I remember it wasn't much but plain light and no immages coming through. It was a relief to have some vision back at this point as opposed to absolute darkness.

Next, I was placed under the lazer machinery. There was a red light I had to keep looking at in order to maintain the lazer's accuracy. The doctor started the lazer. It made a zapping type sound as it fired, whack-whack-whack-whack-whack and the smell of burning flesh permeated the air regardless of the fact that there was a vacuum to remove the smoke. The lazer runs for a specific duration of time that is predetermined by the computer. The doctor monitors the machine during the process. The computer determines the amount of firing time from your previous corneal mapping. When the lazer is finished the doctor puts the flap back in place, places a patch over the eye and moves to the other eye.

BTW, during the entire procedure the doctor told me exactly what he was doing during each step and what I should expect as he was doing it. Just listening to his voice was comforting and it was also reassuring when things would happen exactly as he said they would.

After the procedure, my wife took me directly to our hotel room. I took some more "magic" pills and went to sleep. The hours just after the surgery is when the pain can set in. Try to obtain enough drugs to sleep through it, that's what I did. I didn't wake up until the next morning. I don't recall having any pain during or after the entire event. The next day I went back to the clinic for a post-op examination. I had subsequent check-ups at specific time intervals for the next year. The clinic recomended yearly checkups and gave them at no charge. If you kept up with the checkups, they would re-do your eyes for free if the procedure was necessary again.

I had dryness and irritability for a few weeks following the surgery. I had to be conscious not to touch my eyes at any time for a while. I also had to wear goggles during sleep and while in the shower. Get a good pair of sunglasses and wear them every time you go outside for several months or longer. Ultraviolet rays and intense sunlight can cause damage as your eyes are extremely sensitive during this time, besides you will look really cool too! LOL! I bought Maui Jim brand optically ground, polarized sunglasses. It was an investment, but I felt I was worth it!

The end result:
I have 20/20 in both eyes. I do believe my eyes are more sensitive to becoming dry but I believe that is a small price to pay for what I have now. Thank God for modern medicine! I can enjoy wintertime outdoor activities again without having my glasses fogging up. I can waterski, wakeboard, swim or windsurf without prescription goggles. Never again will I have lost or broken glasses or run out of contacts. Whas it worth it? Absolutely and I would do it again without hesitation.

There is a small risk, of course, as there is with any surgical procedure. My clinic was completely transparent about it's history. They revealed their success rate and also gave the average success rate nationwide in order for me to not only understand the risk factor but also to rate the clinic. I was also told how many procedures my doctor had done and what his specific success/complication numbers were.

I wouldn't worry especially if you doctor is experienced. I didn't know what my doctor's experience or success rate was until after I was commited. At that price, I didn't give a rip. I was going to give it a try either way. You should ask your clinic about your doctor's history prior to commiting to the surgery to put your mind at ease. If your doctor isn't willing or is evasive about giving that information, I would go somewhere else. I didn't even have to ask my clinic for the information, it was part of the pre-operation preparations.


Oh, one thing I want to reiterate; Make sure you sleep for at least eight to ten hours just after the surgery. I think I slept for about twelve or fourteen hours. This period is very critical. It is important to keep your eyes closed because you can get contamination under your flap before it heals and that could lead to infection. If I were to do this again, I would wear swimming goggles from the clinic until I got back to my room. I only wore sunglasses. I found out about six months later when I had another eye exam that I had a small amount of contamination under my flap in one eye. It's there forever now. I would imagine it got there during the travel from the clinic to the hotel. Just commit yourself to sleeping. My cousin had the procedure done in Winnepeg, Canada about six months after I had mine done in Toronto. He didn't get enough pain medication or sleeping pills. He said it was one of the worst experiences of his life. The poor lad was all by himself too. Just sleep through this period, I can't stress how important this is.

That is about all I can tell you. I hope this helped.

Don't worry, you'll be fine,
Wood

[Lilya]

Yes, Wood, it´s Lasik.

I have already done the pre-test and passed so I can take the procedure which is less complicated. It seems to be the same opération you had in Toronto. Cost is high, but my opticien is one of the best in Paris.

I´ll be staying at my Mom´s as she lives close by the Lasik centre, and she will fetch me by car and take me to her house and let me sleep for the next 24 hours - assuming she won´t give me any grief, but she promised to be on her best behaviour. She is too scared and has already got surgical goggles and gloves from my brother who is a surgeon. LOL Then I will go to the doctor´s again for a test and after that I can go home.

I´ve been given the grand tour and have seen how this looks. It´s not pleasant to know a laser is cutting your eye, that´s the most frightening thought. I also fear I will have dry eyes, because I get that now and then with my lenses, but this is a detail.

Thanks a lot for this detailed description of your own experience and great tips. I really appreciated it and I´m not as scared anymore.

I have always dreamt of going to Canada, at least I speak both languages, LOL and I´m told it´s amazing. It´s definately on my list.

Use adversity

[woodtick]

Lilya,
Glad to help.

Wood

[Lilya]

Dear friends,

I want to thank everyone who has supported me over the last few weeks because of my laser surgery. It will be postponed until next year. I have an infection in my left eye, and the doctor feels as well I could use some time to mull it over.

I feel like an idiot today, but I´ll be better tomorrow. Many thanks for your support. It´s wonderful to have a place to go to when there are problems and anxiety issues. You´ve been great.

Use adversity

[2stop]

Don't you dare feel like an idiot!!! You absolutely are not! I think it's a good idea to have some more time to mull it over. There may be a higher powers hand in this you know! A very good resaon you are NOT to have this procedure, at least not right yet.
I am sorry you feel so rotten about it though, you went through so much anxiety with it..the let down afterwards and dissappoinment kinda takes a toll.

HEALING HUGS AND LOVING LIGHT COMING YOUR WAY..........


:redrose

[woodtick]

Lilya,
I'm glad the infection was caught. It would have certainly spread to the incision on your cornea and possibly cause damage. I've heard that post-op infections, although very rare, can be quite miserable and hard to treat. If I were you, I'd take at least a month off before considering the procedure. There certainly is no rush here, especially if you are having doubts about it.

BTW, my wife and I certified for PADI open-water diving last winter. I was in a pool during the winter months and didn't have any more adverse reactions from the chlorine in the water than anyone else. I also did my check-out dives in the spring and went to sixty feet (burrrr! it was so cold below the thermocline) without any problems from the pressure. It had been at least two years since the procedure so you should consult your eye doc before you start diving.

On a slightly darker note; on our first outing last spring with my dive group we went to a local lake to do our first round of check-out dives. Two instructors were deploying bouys while the others were giving instruction to the group. After about ten minutes, one of the instructors deploying bouys surfaced and demanded that someone call the authorities. He stated he had found a car in about fifteen feet of water just off-shore, occupied. The Sheriffs department arrived and sealed the area as a crime scene and we were asked not to speak to anyone pending notification of the deceased family. We later discovered that it was a woman who had been missing since the previous fall. It was a suicide. My understanding was that she suffered from a mental illness of some sort but I don't recall exactly which one it was. For me it was disturbing. Although remotely involved, it was the first time in my life I had been so close to deceased person. Our group had been only twenty feet from the car. I didn't see the car, much less the body, because the bottom sediment had been so disturbed. I am thankfull for that. It was disturbing for two reasons. The reality of my own mortality was brought to light as I considered the potential fate of a diving accident. At the time I had just discovered I had ADD and thought about how important it is for me to stay focused while on a dive. More disturbing was the reality of seeing first hand the danger of untreated mental illness. The whole event hit close to home for me and provoked me to take my own mental health more seriously. I will never forget that day. Another bizarre coincidence that day was that one of the members of my dive group is a local psychiatrist (not mine). In the region there are only three or four psychiatrists. I had always wondered if it had been one of his patients. He was my dive partner that day. We drove to and from the dive site together and he didn't say much on the way home about the event. Maybe it was just disturbing for him as well but I have wondered ever since.

Sorry about the deviation from the thread topic but it just popped into my head and I wanted to share it. It was an important event for me and my recovery.

I think it is good for you, Lilya, to have a little time to contemplate the procedure. I hope I didn't scare you with the not-so-positive details but, in all fairness, I wanted to make sure you knew everything I knew about lasik surgery before you proceeded. In retrospect it wasn't bad at all. I don't mean to repeat myself but I am so glad I did it and so is everybody I know that has done it.

Wood

[2stop]

Woodtick, What an ordeal, that would be hard to see up so close an dpersonal the effects of untreated mental illness. I just shed a tear and said a prayer for her family, how so very sad....

and you Woodtick..I was watching Navy Seal training on cable the other day and when they were qualifying for diving and UDT, they had to be in a decompression chamber after going so far down..do you do that? They said in 2 years I believe it was they had had 4 fatalities, that some peopel have conditions undetectable at physical qualifying time, that diving deep is very dangerous..guess that's what make sit so fun huh? Heck, one guy got pretty sick at 9 feet down holding his braethe 10 seconds...be careful man!!

[woodtick]

2stop,

Yes it was a very tragic ordeal. It is sad that it went that way. The family must have been devistated. It was a high profile case, the family was certain she had been abducted because the woman had just gone to the store for cigarettes or something and never returned. She even left her coffee pot on at home.

The diving I am getting into is classified as "recreational" The dives are planned as not to induce decompression sickness via dive tables or dive computers. The tools calculate the nitrogen building in your body from the pressure. It is when you surface and remove the pressure from your body the built-up nitrogen releases in the form of "bubbles" from your joints causing severe pain and illness. The longer and deeper you go, the faster the nitrogen uptake is. Decompression sickness is avoidable if you play by the rules but if you don't, yes a trip to a decompression chamber my be necessary. I am only certified to go to a depth of about 115 feet (I'm certified I'm supposed to know this exact number) and I'm content with that. For now anyways. I didn't get to do much diving this summer because I'v had so many other things on my plate but as soon as the smoke clears around here I'm going to do more. I just basically finished my open water certification this summer, no pleasure diving so to speak.

Those navy seals are the highest trained divers in the world. They define the limits of diving, scuba and otherwise. That's extreme sports. Too dangerous for me!

I'm enjoyng the shallow and longer dives. It's so much warmer and there's a lot to see because the surface light is not impeded as much.

Wood

[2stop]

Your telling me! When they went down under the ship to learn placement of explosives it was so eery and dark and murky...God love em!! Your dives sound kinda cool really, maybe one day I'll try scuba diving....in the Carribbean or something. LOL....

[Juls]

Lilya,

I'm glad your taking the time to think it over some more, because you were having reservations. The infection is a little bit of a blessing in disguise since it allows you to take the time you need. You are not foolish, o.k.?

Juls

[Lilya]

My eyedoctor said I got the infection from my mascara. I´ve been using make-up heavily on my tour in Scandinavia and even it´s the new YSL, it bothers me. Costed a fortune as well. Yes, it´s a blessing to have time to weigh more the pros and cons. It´s a delicate opération and very dry eyes and infections can occur

You did not scare me at all, Wood. Your informations have been invaluable. Some of it is on the outprint I got from the Laster centre. You were very accurate. I looked at the FDA Lasik website on the internet, and the French are idiots! I was not supposed to put on any make-up at least 2 week before the op, and not use contact lenses for a whole month. These doctor idiots told me I could wear make-up until the day before and lenses a week before! "But you want to look nice, no?" he said. Trust the French.

Thanks, Juls and Tammie, for encourageing me. I felt foolish after all this expectations and fears, but now I´m fine.

I can understand how disturbing this scene must have looked to you, Wood, especially because of the mental illness.

Unfortunately I´ve seen many dead bodies, just in Paris. Once I saw a man who had been pushed out of the window and the police had just arrived. He was dead and it was a mafia case, very publicized. I´ve seen many dead vagrants in Paris, in métro stations and train stations and on the streets. I once saw two dead bodies in the park, again a mafia vendetta, a Russian one. That disturbed me a lot because the bodies were mutilated. I had to file a report.

I long to learn scuba diving and I intend to. I regularily swim with diving gear near Formentera, a little island close to Spain where I stay most Augusts. It´s fascinating. I want to take proper classes and explore the sea near Marocco and later Africa. Is it hard? How many classes do you need to take? 115 feet would suit me fine.

Use adversity

[woodtick]

2stop, it's a lot of fun in places like the carribbean and such. There is so much more to see and it is so much warmer than a lake in Minnesota. Most resorts have dive instructors and will take groups out on supervised dives. I tried it in Jamaca on my honeymoon and another time in Dominican Republic. After "getting my feet wet" -excuse the pun- a few times I decided that I should get certified so I could enjoy it in a more leasure enviroment without being supervised. I would eventually like to get certified to do salvage, ice and wreck diving. My brother's snowmobile went through the ice last winter (almost took my fifteen year old neice with it) and he had to pay a guy $500 to retrieve it. It only took the guy about fifteen minutes. For me that kind of stuff would be fun and I could make a little money to buy gear also. Anyways, I would recomend giving it a try in a pool to see if you're comfortable with it. I would imagine its a great way to spend afternoons at warm weather resorts.

Lilya, Oh you women and your beauty, look what mess it got you into this time! LOL! I can't believe the doctors didn't tell you about makeup and contacts. The contacts especially because they give your cornea a different contour than what it naturally has. The computer mapping of your cornea would have been wrong if you had been wearing contacts previously. Not good. My guess is that the procedure would not have given you your needed correction. Maybe you should make a trip to Canada eh!

Good God, It sounds like paris is a dangerous city. I've never actually had to see a dead body, I hope I never do.

I was in a PADI course. If I remember correctly, there were about four or five classrooms and four pool sessions, then two afternoons in a lake for check-out dives. You have to do your homework just like any schooling and you get tested as well. The pool sessions consisted of learning skills such as taking off and replacing mask and regulator underwater , breathing with your partner's regulator, removing your gear on the water surface and stuff like that. It's not too strenuous, the psychiatrist in our group is in his mid-sixties and he didn't seem to have a problem.
It is certainly stuff you need to know to make diving a pleasurable experience. You will do very well since you are interested in it. My wife wasn't into it as much as I was but she made it just fine.

Brent

[Lilya]

Thanks a lot for the diving class information and the additional stuff on the laser surgery. I don´t know what to think. My doctor says: No make-up one day before, and no contact lenses one week before. This is totally rediculous and I think it´s like a divine intervention I didn´t go. Thank God for the infection! I believe the FDA website and this is just not safe. I should go to Canada and maybe I will. No, seriously. I won´t gamble my eyes this way.

Paris is a very dangerous city. It´s very small if you don´t count the suburbs, so you see a lot of crime because of the condense population. I doubt you would see much on a holiday as a tourist, but living there is a different matter. As it´s small, it has all the ethnic groups, and that´s also a part of the Paris charms. It´s divided by areas, like you have Chinatown, the gangs, the algérian part of town, and so on. I love to walk around and buy different products from different part of the world on different prizes. Indian silk and Russian and Persian carpets. I love to go with my girlfriends shopping. But as in any city with different ethnics, you have the mafia. We have the Chinese triades, Russian, Italian and Marseille mafia who owns half of the South of France and a portion of Paris. If you go to an Italian resto in Paris, it´s probably owned by the Sicilian family. And there are some parts in Paris you cannot really visit, because there is sand on the streets and women are veiled.

I´m not too affected by dead bodies. In a way I find it good to see life and death forming a contrast in a community. Maybe because I grew up with it. but there are certain things I can never get used to and has marked us all.

Otherwise, Paris is a wonderful city, rich in culture and colourful. You should all come for a visit.

Use adversity

[2stop]

I have always wanted to go to Paris. I watrch the travel channel on cable a lot. I have a whole list of places I intend to go.
Oh we still have la familia here too, But jus fuggedaboudit me a talkin to aya aneea more bout dis bizness.....Uncle Louie and Fat Joey are placing a horses head in bed witha the partner caughta stealin froma de cookie jar..yee aknow whhada mean? And ole Johnny jus a walked dinto a cafe wida a rabbit ina cage.....I ama outta hereya tonight!! Ju know a whatta mean? LOL.....just kidding around widd aya. I watch way too many mafia movies, but I a love em ..those Italian boyz, awww sucha passion, ina everythinga theya do....


Okay, I am not that funny, but I am laughing with myself right now......

*hugs yall*

[Lilya]

Tammie,

I know what you mean. Don Corléone is alife and well. You just don´t mess with him or his family! I guess in Europe we are closer to them because they´re everywhere. And we know what politicians are in it...

Sometimes I can´t help but laugh when I´m in Italy. It´s more "La familia" the more south you go. Once I was in a restaurant down there and complained about the awful food. The servant whispered to me that I couldn´t complain, because The Don, the tutti d´alla cappa, was actually there on a visit. I would hurt his family so much. His own first restaurant. The beginning and the cornerstone of the empire. See what I mean?

I looked at him and winked. Payed the bill and left. Rule of a thumb.

Use adversity

[2stop]

Those Sicilians...not as jolly as the Italiano's eh?

[Lilya]

Sicilians are truly beautiful people. They´re different from other Italians, because they live in a very close community.

Did you have Italian ancestors, or is it someone else?

Use adversity

[2stop]

Yes, I do.

[Lilya]

What family?

OK, Ok, enough of this. No, seriously, where are your ancestors from? What region? I know Italy very well and I love it.

Use adversity

[2stop]

WEll, my mother was adopted, and all they will say is she is Italian, and she doesn't need to know anymore, she was born in NYC in 1945, adopted at 18 months, but there's a lot of messed up paperwork, and crazy stuff...I have a cousin tried to research some of it, found my mom a few numbers..and when my mom called they got VERY upset and said she didn't need to know anymore, her mother was dead, she had 10 brothers/sisters, yada yada...so I have no idea where in Italy I have my ancestors, but I would love to find out. I wanted to help her get her adoption papers out of the courthouse, bur now we are on bad terms, I don't know .....I want to know...medical reasons for my kids, JUST TO KNOW....I just know she is Italian, and lord one look at her you know, and hear her talk! it's funny, my husband says for not ever being in Italy we have some of the characterisitcs he's seen in Italians he has known.....who knows! One day I will, but then I am afraid to find out you know, the family may truly NOT allow it...aww well, if my HP sees fit, it will be. I know it is a lot of my mom's pain, and I ache for her pain, but I cannot tolerate her insanity. I need to just forget about this awhile.....next year maybe I will be on better terms and we can find something more out.....