Old friends

[Lilya]

In recovery I have been chosen to sever ties with old friends who are still active drinkers and whose lifestyle is unhealthy. I always find it very painful, but in the long run it´s better for me. I usually make new friends soon.

Sometimes I´m not sure if the friends I have are still sick. An old friend has been a lot on my mind lately and I want to ask you what you think.

She´s an actress (theatre) but gave up her career when she married a man she´s crazy about and had a child with him in her forties.

She was married before, but split up with him - he was a heavy drinker - and I helped her get through that. She spent many years alone, and felt so bad about being without a man, she sometimes became heavily depressed and had to be in bed. She was in therapy and Al-anon and has been very active in personal growth.

She met her husband in Al-Anon. He has been a drinker all his life and a womanizer. He was in AA and SA. I met him once in the airport, we both lost our baggage, and I had difficulties getting rid of him. He had lovers all over town and I was appalled when my friend started being with him. I know he has cheated on her several times during their marriage.

After she married him we saw less and less of each other. She had his child and gave up a promising career, and now he is dying of cancer. I have contacted her three times because I know how hard it is, but she has been very unresponsive. She claims there will be a miracle and he will live, but in reality, his chances are nil. She has not answered my last two messages.

I feel hurt by her rejection, but I feel it´s best to sever these ties. Thoughts and comments would be very welcome.

Use adversity

[Juls]

Lilya,

I would not necessarily sever ties, because what is happening to her now is taking up all her time and energy and she really doesn't have anything to give. She probably does not want to talk about her situation since it is painful. Many times people go into hiding when going through something like this.

If she has been a good friend to you in the past, and if/when he passes from his cancer she will need a friend to talk to. I don't know that she is deliberately shutting you out, well maybe deliberately, but not with cruel or mean intentions.

I know some people reach out more when they are going through a crisis, but for me I tend to withdraw. When my mother was dying of cancer, it pretty much took all my emotional and physical resources to take care of and support her. I put alot of friendships on hold during that time.

I think you have to evaluate the friendship as a whole to make that decision.

I hope this has been helpful.

Juls

[Lilya]

Juls,

Thanks a lot. You´ve been very helpful.

I still don´t know what to do about my old friend and that´s OK. I have given it away for a while. She has this tendancy to withdraw while in a crisis and I have always respected that.

This time, though, I think I´m evaluating the friendship based on what has happened since she married this man. Maybe it´s not good for me.

She basically stopped talking to all of her friends, me included, and poured all her energies into the marriage. The few times I saw her during that time, she became an extension from him and imitated everything he said. She made a lot of effort to invite his friends. She stopped going to Al-Anon and the way I saw it, lived for him.

I went on a promotion trip to Stockholm with a friend of hers and we spent a lot of time together talking and getting to know each other. This friend was dumped as well when they got married. So now we don´t know what to think.

It feels awful when a friend who once was dear to me is going through such a bad time, but I will let go of her and trust the process.

Use adversity

[Bonni]

(((Lilya))) ((hugs))
I know how hard it can be to give up a friend you've had for so long a time, I had a similar circumstance happen with me; with a long time friend, and it was very difficult, like a divorce, or in some ways a death. I still havent gotten over it. In this case, with my friend, she shunned and rejected help and friendship from her closest friends, when her husband died of cancer. I had been one of her best friends for almost 30 years. She became suspicious of everyone and their intentions after he died, thinking everyone was after something from her or some inheritance from him. It was really sad and sick the way she treated everyone that tried to help her. So for my own well being I had to completly take myself out of her life. To continue to try and have any kind of relationship with her was a real threat to my soberity, and it intensified my problems with my bipolar/manic depression. My therapist even recommended, I sever my ties with this person because she felt like the relationship was a threat to my mental well being. So sometimes we have to do what is in the best interest for everyone, and for our own self, and well being.
I hope everything turns out for the best for you, I'm sending my prayers to you and your friend. Love Bonni

[Lilya]

Thanks for responding, Bonni.

Your post puts things in perspective for me. Although I realize, like Juls says, that during great strain friendships can be put on hold, I just don´t think this relationship is good for me.

She has done it before, the signs were there. When I came back to Paris after my marriage broke up in London, she never called. She completely withdrew. Later, she told me she couldn´t watch my pain. Luckily I had other friends. I also started building up other resourches of friendship, because this showed me that when you´re really down, some people close to you can really not deal with it.

I had this growing feeling for a long time she was living in a maze of codependency with this man and I thought to myself: I have never, in all my relationships, become the mirror image of my spouse. I´ve always maintained my independance and closeness with my friends. Maybe that´s why they were not a success, LOL. No, No, I´ve done my fourth step and taken inventory.

I will let her go without bitterness. I think I just needed to face it. My sponsor calls it trimming hedges. In recovery, some branches will fall.

Thanks again, Bonnie. I love your angels.

Use adversity

[Bonni]

(((Lilya)))
It sounds like you have made the right choice regarding your friend. Like I said your situation with her is similar to the way it was with me and my friend. She got to where she was passive about any problems that I might have, as a matter of fact she acted like it made her mad if you mentioned any problems or illness to her. It was as tho, she was the only one in life that ever had anything bad to happen, and she didnt want to hear that you may be sick, or that something was wrong. In other words she became very self centered. So for me its like you said about your friendship with your friend, that you dont feel like the relationship is good for you, and thats the way I feel about mine.
I like what your sponsor says about "trimming hedges," "in recovery some branches will fall". I'll have to remember that.
I wish you the best. Take care, and have a great day. Love and ((hugs)) Bonni

[dotcom]

hi lilya

i have a friend like that. after i got cleaned up, we hung out a lot. she had a bf who was pretty nice. but he wasnt "around" enough for her, so they broke up. she remained single with me for about 2 months...and she told me how nice it felt to be free. and then she got another bf who has to be with her every second of every moment of every day. she made plans with me and never followed through, she stopped emailing and calling me, and it was horrible! i was so angry and i was "badmouthing" her. i now realize that was wrong, but i was just so hurt i didnt know what to do with it. i finally got up the courage to confront her about why she didnt follow through with our plans, and she acted like she didnt know about them...but she did apologize. then she blew off our plans to go to disneyland and went there with someone else! well, that hurt. i like what you wrote about "trimming hedges", i think she cant handle some of the things ive gone through. thanx i never thought of that!

recently though ive been letting her make the plans with me, and if i can tell she really wants to see me ill make plans with her. we have known eachother for at least 14 years (since we were kids) and during my addiction we didnt associate. im trying to not depend on her solely for "friendship" and i think she sees that. that must have been a burden on her, i dont know. but yeah, ive been hanging out with my sponsor and branching out. thanx again for making me think!!!!

dotcom

[Mamabear]

Hi Lilya,

Miss y'all.
I have a friend like this, too. I know that as I am learning this detaching thing, she encourages me to cling and control. I had to distance myself. I knew much the same way you know - my gut tells me so. I'm not ending the relationship but am limiting it's ability to influence me. Right now I need people who support my strengths not those who want me to remain in that old codependent dance.
love ya,
Mamabear

[Lilya]

Thank you all for responding.

Welcome to this forum, Dot.com. Yes, I believe we keep losing friends in recovery, but there is always a replacement. A new friend appears and hopefully he or she is more healthy than the friends that come to nothing.

Well, not nothing. I think we all learn from everything, no matter what it is. I´m forever learning about codependency. We had a very similar friend, Bonni. Mine didn´t want to hear about my problems as well. She was so into this guy.

Mamabear, my sweet, you are right about trusting your instincts. I believe we know more than we allow ourselves to believe. It´s the fear of being lonely.

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[Mamabear]

Lilya,

Tell me more. What do you mean when you say it's the fear of being lonely?

g2g more later
(((love)))
Mamabear
p.s. I will be sending you a pm

[Lilya]

Mamabear,

What I meant was that sometimes we know better, we see signs that this friendship might not be good for us, but the primal fear of being lonely blinds us and blocks the message we are sending ourselves.

Sometimes we want the friendship so much to work, we choose to turn a blind eye to a possible problem. What I have learn is this rule of thumb: "If a person behaves towards others in a certain way, she will behave in the same way to you." Ergo: To be avoided.

Easy to say, but not at all easy in praxis! We live and learn.

Use adversity

[Bonni]

(((Lilya)))
I find that to be so true! What you said about, if a person behaves a certain way towards others, they well behave the same way towards you. I'v definitely had that to happen with me.
And sometimes we do see signs and just turn a blind eye, and thats when we usually get hurt by that person, when we turn a blind eye, or remain in denial. Thanks for your insight. Love Bonni ((hugs))

[Lilya]

Thanks Bonnie, I really like your posts.

I had to let yet another friend go last summer. We were in college and University together and we´ve been friends ever since.

The problems I had with her were increasing, and she was always living my life through me, if you see what I mean. She wanted to hear about my love affairs that ended badly, and she kept hammering on the past. She kept reminding me I am an ex-juvenile and maybe I should marry an ex-con since everyone else is too “normal� for me, while her life was so great and everything so cool. It became repetitious and although I made it clear I didn´t want to hear this, she kept going. I finally told her this got to me and that she never respected my boundaries. I just wanted to end the friendship.

She is a daughter of a severe manic-depressive, but is in denial about it and always have. Her mother is in a hospital, “because the doctors diagnosed her wrongly or she had a virus on the brain.�

When I was preparing to celebrate my 45 year old birthday she contacted another mutual friend and suggested we all met and she would organize a cruise on La Seine.

I told her this would not work for me and that I would be celebrating my birthday elsewhere and with my friends.

This was painful to do, but worth it. She had husrt me deeply and I wished I had severed these ties sooner.

It just feels kind of empty! Trimming hedges is difficult, but necessary.

Use adversity

[Bonni]

(((Lilya)))
Yes its like you say, trimming hedges can be difficult, but its necessary sometimes. I still really havent reached a closure on the relationship I had to break off from, that I was telling you about. Even tho it was for the best interest of my soberity and my mental well being. The sadness is still there. Its almost like a death has taken place, or maybe like a divorce, because the person is still living, but the connection between us is gone forever and will never come back. And that is so sad, and I'm still dealing with that, and I dont believe I'll ever completely get over it.
Like you say, it is painful when you have to break long time ties with someone who meant so much to you, and you thought that you meant so much to them.
Lilya, it seems like certain things in our lives are similar, I'm wondering if we were born under the same astrological sign. (lol)
I'm a Virgo, born on august 26th.
Well you have a great day, and I'll talk to you later. I like your posts too. Love Bonni ((hugs))

[Lilya]

Bonni,

I´m Gemini, Ascendant and Moon in Scorpion. What is your Ascendant and moon?

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[Bonni]

(((Hi Lilya)))
I dont know a lot about how to figure certain things out about astrology, I just know I am Virgo, and my ruling planet is Mercury, but I dont know how to figure out what is my Ascendant and Moon. How do you find that out? Love Bonni

[Bonni]

((Lilya))
Just wanted to say hi and how are you doing? Havent heard much from you since last week. Hope your having a great weekend.
Lilya, we were talking about our astrological signs. And you ask me what my ascendant and moon was. And you mentioned yours was in scorpion. I think mine may be capricorn, not for sure. How do you come up with that evaluation? I was trying to figure it out thur something I read. And what I read, it said my moon is gemini.
Have a good day, and I'll talk with you later. Love Bonni ((hugs))

[Lilya]

Hi Bonni,

I´ve been around, now and again, but it´s been very busy lately. I´ve also had computer problems and I have to take it into the repair shop, but I don´t know when... I have to be reachable by e-mail at all times because of my work.

I´m very well, thanks for asking, and I hope you had a good week-end. Let´s see, the first man I lived with was an astrologer and tought me everything there is to know about it. It´s one of my hobbies. I don´t remember how you calculate the ASC, because I just do it on computer within minutes. The Ascendant is supposed to rule our behaviour, our outward appearance and how we connect with others. The Moon is emotions, relationship with women, our mother and our home. If your ASC is in Capricorn, you´re probably well grounded.

I´m reading the book "Homecoming" for the second time and I wished I had read it again sooner. It´s wonderful and explores dysfunctional families. Have you read it?

Love and light,

Use adversity

[Bonni]

Hi Lilya,
Its good to hear from you and I'm glad your doing ok. I know what you mean about being busy, I'v been pretty busy myself this week, with our Thanksgiving holiday and all. Now we are going into the christmas mode, time just flys way to fast.
Plus we are planning an after christmas holiday to Hawaii. My son is graduating college Dec. 19th, so we are taking him and his girlfriend to Hawaii, as a graduation present. So I'v been busy getting our flight and hotel reservations together.
Thanks for the information about my ASC. Like I said I know very little about astrological signs, I'v just began to learn. I'm finding it very interesting and want to learn more.
No I havent read the book Homecoming, sounds interesting. Didnt they have a made for TV movie about it ? I saw a movie on TV with the same title, and I believe it was about a dysfunctional all coming home for christmas; With the title "Homecoming".
Have a great day my friend, Love Bonni ((hugs))

[Lilya]

Bonni,

I´m sorry, I misunderstood your question about your Asc and Moon. I´m tired and speaking in foreign tongues. LOL You calculate it from the date of birth, the exact hour and minutes and then you calculate it with longitude and latitude of the place of birth. The sign that comes up East on the horizon at that exact time and place is your ASC.

But it´s best to have it calculated in a computer.

I think the film "Homecoming" is about a man who served in the Vietnam war. He comes home and finds his wife living with someone else. I believe it was with Jane Fonda. The book is about a different subject. It deals with adult children of alchoholics. I´m sorry if I explained it in a funny way.

I´m glad you had a good Thanksgiving. If you have any more questions on astrology, feel free and ask. It´s very interesting indeed.

Love and light.

Use adversity

[ButterflyChaser]

Gosh Girl!! I really don't know what to say on this one! This actually a big one for me, right now! I just hope & pray you find the words or "it" comes to you so you will feel at peace, other than that....Good Luck & remember we are hear for you!
((((((((((((((Lilya)))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Lilya]

A strange thing has happened. The friend in question, the one I wrote about in this thread sent me a long e-mail today.

She explained to me that dealing with her husband´s cancer had drained her so much that she had to put all of her friends, me included, on hold. She said she was sorry, but she had no extra energy to give.

Her husband is actually better. He had tumours in the liver and all around the lungs, but they have disappeared with radiation therapy. It´s been long and painful, and she had house inondation to deal with, leaks everywhere, his mother dying of cancer as well and a 2 year old daughter to raise.

I have to think about this. I never wrote her, so it´s strange she´s writing to me. It´s an explanation and it´s credible. I have to think twice before severing ties.

Use adversity

[Mamabear]

wow
What a great reminder. Thanks, Lilya,
Mamabear

[Lilya]

I´m still sleeping on that decicion.

Why should I seek her friendship if she has to put it on hold all the time? That´s one of the questions. She keeps doing that. Of course she´s under tremendous pressure, but I have a feeling her men always come first. I have some problems with that. This time I´m on my side, thinking about what is good for me, but not necessarily good for her, or to please her.

I also got a card from a really old friend. We were friends in gradschool and unseparable. She´s living in the Martiniques now and breeds foxes and dogs. She wants me to visit and it could bee fun. I will definately write to her.

The basic questions I asking myself is probably, why bother if the friendship is too difficult? Shouldn´t I just trim yet another hedge? There have just been so many hedges I´ve trimmed lately.

Use adversity

[Mamabear]

I get that way, too. As a matter of fact I got pis*ed at a long time friend because the relationship is so one way and I didn't invite her to a dinner we were having. I felt awkward the closer it came and decided to phone her and wish her happy holidays. She was so appreciative and the conversation went fairly well. I think she just can't "go there" with me as our family life right now is, shall I say, complex! I miss her but it's better this way (with a bit of distance between us) than me carrying the weight of the relationship and resenting it. Who knows what the future will brong....actually a few other friends have emerged and that has been quite nice. You're right about friendship taking work though.
I know I gotta have some hedges around!
((((love)))))
Mamabear