My sexy eyedoctor - help!

[Lilya]

:shades:

Oh boy, the mania or sex addiction is rearing it´s head again!

Today I went for my laser correction test which took more than one hour. I was in the reception when I saw this incredibly handsome man smiling at me. I almost fell on the floor, he was so amazing. He looks like John Malkovitch in Dangerous Liaisons, only he´s blond, and talks in the same sexy way. He has a dangerous glint in his eyes and seems a bit weird, but in a fun way. He reminds me of my fiancé who ran off before our wedding 17 years ago - but helped me to become sober without knowing it.

He is my eydoctor and will do the surgery on Nov 14th.

He took off his wedding-ring when he thought I didn´t see, but I did see it. The examination of my eyes was the sexiest I´ve known in years and he quoted all kinds of philosophical and movie lines while we spoke. He mentioned my books and my work on TV and told me he knew my father´s work. A regular charmer, but I fell for it.

He caressed my hair and stroke my cheek while adjusting the equipment. He gave me compliments. If he would have been old and ugly, I would have reported him, but he must have felt what I felt. I was simply head over heels.

He told me he would be with me through the procedure every the step of the way. "We will be seeing a lot of each other. Our first date is on the 14th, but then we will meet for over a year. I will give you my private phone number. You can call me day and night and I will be there if you need me."

But he is married! Later, in the reception again he had to see some eyesurgeons from Japan and then he had his wedding ring on.

Help!

Use adversity

[Jon]

Hi Lilya...

For a lot of different reasons we are not set up to properly help someone in terms of Sexual Addiction. As an open forum, it becomes way to easy for things to stray off-topic, or worse, for people to get hurt.

The following are some reources for Chat and Message Boards that are Sex Addiction specific. I hope these help.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astarttorecovery/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BrettA/

http://www.codeps.org/

http://www.sexhelp.com/

http://kavodrecovery.com/

http://forums.talkcity.com/slaa

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RecoveringSexualAddicts/

http://www.sarr.org/

[Lilya]

I´m over my attack and I am grateful.

I have thought about what happened yesterday and have taken steps to have another doctor performing the operation.

Still, I´m happy to feel that I´m still alife despite my long celibacy and I´m not ashamed.

"Admitted to God, to ourself and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs".

Working this step with sincerity and being perfectly honest is the only way I know to get somewhere in recovery. I recognize my triggers and I act accordingly.

Use adversity

[phoenix]

I'm glad you are finding another doctor.And I do hope you will consider reporting what happened.What he is doing is abusing his position and violating patient trust.It is a serious breach of ethics.If he made such an approach to a person who has other issues,she might very well leave and not seek other treatment.Or she might submit out of fear that she would be unable to be treated otherwise.He is in a position to do great harm.


phoenix

[Mamabear]

Wow, Lilya, you're the best! It took courage to recognize the trigger and find another doctor. What courage you have!!
Mamabear

[Paulie]

I agree with Phoenix here. Yes, you were very smart to see this trigger in yourself and find a new dr. but there are alot of women out there who might not see that themselves that he could prey on. You don't know anythign about this man.

In my opinion you should report him, he should not be allowed to treat patients like that.

[Lilya]

Paulie, Mamabear, Jon and Phoenix,

Don´t you worry. I know my responsabilities and he is reported. I talked to the President of the eyesurgeon´s society today and e-mailed him as well.

I recognized my own responsabilities, but I told the president that I suffer from Bi-polaire depression and other issues this man took advantage of. I told him I would talk to the press if he is not reprimanded, also I asked him to call me back and report to me what happened between them and I requested a written report as well.

So, there I am. Thanks for your support and help,

Use adversity

[ksos]

Lilya...

That's the way!! I commend you for avoiding what could have just been a horrible situation for you. If something like that happened to me right now, I don't know if I could have been that strong. It's also important to recognize our vulnerabilities--weak spots, so to speak.

I, too, did something that would have probably turned out badly for me. I "lost" the phone number and email of a woman who could activate my already chaotic world. I just had to. No matter how needy and lonely I'm feeling right at this moment. Instead, I called my sponser and he gave me what I needed and more. I no longer need to live in destructiveness today, but I have to always be aware of this. As do all of us.

K

[Mamabear]

Yeah Lilya!!! You reported him!!!

You are helping so many by reporting this scum. You can bet he's done it to others.
When I was 22 I had an eye doctor appt (yes, an eye dr) and this jerk locked the examining room, told me he'd like me to walk over to his house (the mansion was behind the office) and he would bring champagne and take a few hours off from work. He said not to worry because arrangements like this were fine with his wife. He took some pornographic magazines out of his closet and showed me his favorites. (Shivers run up my spine as I recall this)
I decided to get the receptionists attention by leaning onto the call button of the phone. "Yes, Dr. P......" she answered. I replied "The door is jammed shut. Can you get it open." Never have I seen such anger in a man's eyes. He relied "It's okay Charlene, I think I can get it." and leaned over to open the door and push it open. He stormed out of the room and turned to say "No charge" to the receptionist as he rushed down the hall. Talk about being freaked out. I ran out, jumped in my car and drove home to my parents. My mother was wonderful. She wanted to call an attorney and the papers. I was too frightened and oh, I regret it. To this day, I attend appointments with my daughter because of it. And if it happened now, I'd have the strength to act on it.
Good for you Lilya!
Mamabear

[Lilya]

And then he got angry! Eh oui! Classic situation, Mamabear. They seduce and destroy and when we react, then they get mad. Do you know that in Italy, the men are so aggressive they kick you and try to hit you if you don´t respond to theirs sedcution on the street? I always, always carry maze on me and use it. Yes, I use it. I cannot repeat this often enough for younger women. Use the protection you are allowed to carry in your country.

It´s also a good short story, that one. An eyedoctor, champagne and a mansion. Good for you to get the receptionist´s attention. I usually freeze, did go along in some situations or became cold as ice, depending on the man´s phnysical appearance. These are one of the difficult situations in life. At 45, I thought this would be over.

Ksos, good for you! This must have been hard for you to do. But the reason spoke and you did well. Remember the Goya drawing: "Sleep of reason produces monsters"? It´s one of my guidelines in life. First, there needs to be order and harmony in our lives, then we can think about a relationship.

I´m grateful for your support and I hope we can be there for each other. Post if you´re lonely. Remember that we will heal if we use the AA guidelines in life and then exciting things will happen. Now we are in the process of healing and learning more about ourselves each time.

Use adversity

[Juls]

Mamabear,

That is terrible what that creep did to you. I've never thought about things like that happening. I will be very careful with my daughter and any kind of appointments she has. I just can't seem to get away from some type of molestation. I was molested as a girl, by more than one person, (male), and my son was molested by an 80 year old woman, who was supposed to be a pillar of her church.

I thought this woman was a godsend when she started taking care of my son in infancy. She continued to watch him until he was ten, and sometime in those years she molested him. I didn't find out until six years ago. After I had my daughter, I was going to go visit her and her family, and I asked my son to come too. He did not want to come, and I didn't understand why. I kept asking him, until finally he broke down in tears, my big 6 foot son, crying and saying that he thought she had molested him. I asked hime what she had done, and he told me he wasn't sure, but that she used to get on top of him with no clothes on. Can you imaging, an 80 year old woman on type of a young boy. I'm surprised if he would be interested in sex. He says he's alright, but I was soooo angry. I wanted to go up there and confront her, but he really didn't want me to. The thing was, I knew that there was young boy that was living in her house with his mother, and I feared that she would be doing the same thing to him. What I finally decided to do was to call her daughter. I told her daughter what my son had said, and she was good about it. She said she always knew her mom had a strong sex drive, but she never thought it would extend to something like that, and that she would keep an eye out for the young boy.

I do not want anything to ever happen to my daughter, and I try to be so careful, and educate her, and tell her to talk to me if anything does happen. I didn't try to educate my son so strongly because I never though of a woman molesting a young boy, I was always worried about the "dirty old men." For my son he was afraid to say.

Juls

[ksos]

What strikes me when I read the posts of Juls and Lilya is the fact that I never dealt with my parent's neglect--meaning my mother essentially allowing my uncle to molest me for years and years. Mom completely ignored and denied it, Dad said "He's only playing with you," and i just know that it was frightening to be around this freaking creep. He also sexually molested my best friend who stopped talking to me for years. I had always thought that my friend and I just went on different paths, but we caught up to each other 20 years later and he told me what had happened.

I was 18, with my girlfriend, in my house during a holiday, when my uncle offered me $500.00 for oral sex. I was already using heavy amounts of cocaine and I immediately lunged at him, punched his lights out, and never saw him again afterwards. My mother actually was going to file charges against ME for assault, but my father intervened. I didn't care, anyway. That was 22 years ago.

I guess why this came out now was when I read the post by Juls, it's like you never know who is going to do it to you. It could be a brother, a grandmother, uncles, cousins, babysitters. I have an eleven year old daughter and I think I would kill anyone who did that to her, even if it were a family member. In fact, I would kill that person and it makes me so angry that my parents didn't take care of their son when I needed protection.

I grew up in an upper-class home with all of the luxuries that money could buy. My parents financed my entire education, both BA and Masters', and bought me cars, gave me money when I needed it and even when I didn't, and helped with the purchase of my home. They even paid for my first detox when I didn't have insurance. No matter. All I wanted was protection when I was 9 years old.

That's something that you can't buy. Bless all of You.

K

[Juls]

((((((((Ksos))))))))

What happened to you was so wrong. You have/had every right to be angy, and to punch his lights out. My brother molested me for three years, ages 9-12, until I started having a cycle and he was worried he could get me pregnant. I remember I used to have fantasies of using my step-fathers gun to kill everyone, my mother for abusing me and failing to protect me, my brother for abusing me, and my step-father for abusing me and my mother. I had so much hate, I can't even begin to describe it.

And your right, it doesn't matter who you are or where you came from, anyone can do it. I don't know if you've had any counseling for what happend to you, I have had some. It's just so hard to talk about it, all the things that he did to me, I feel such a sense of shame. For some reason I can say it here without feeling bad.

The good thing is though, I think for the most part I've been able to let that all go. As adults my brother and I have spoken about this. He has gone through alot of counseling, and while I'll never forget, I have been able to let it go. I'm not sure if that's the same thing as forgivness, but I did not want the fact that these things had happened to me ruin my life, and make me hateful and bitter.

Are your parents still alive, the uncle, would you be strong enough to confront them? I couldn't confront my mon, I tried, but she told me she doesn't remember anything that I said she did to me. Denial or outright lie, I don't know.

If you haven't had some counseling, you need an opportunity to work this out, to relieve yourself of the burden of that experience. Since I didn't want to discuss it in a counseling setting, I did different things with myself that were healing.

I was thinking about starting a thread on anger here, because I think anger that is not properly released and turned inward can lead to all kinds of dysfunctional, and self-destructive behavior.

If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll start it.

Juls

[billde]

hi Lilya,
you must remember what it is that you really want in life. Iam sure if you think about it that you want what most people want that is some one to love as well as some one to love you. This Dr. no matter how good looking cant be there for you he. As much as we want to have the right person in our lifes we must remember that we tend to attract people like ourself's addict's many of whom dont have a program. The person you want will be there one day but Iam sure he will not be wearing or removing a wedding ring . Lilya you are worth much more than that you are Iam sure a wonderful woman who desevers a man who is fully there for you
Bill

[Lilya]

A big kiss to you, Billde. It was sweet of you write this. Thank you.

I know what I want in life, but I´m not sure if I want "conventional love" anymore. I feel I´ve lived through so much, I could only commit to friendship with light love - in France we call it: "Amour/amitié". I´m also very much into my career and I´m a professional writer, so I get incredible happiness out of creative writing about big passions.

I get these triggers from time to time, but I realize what they are: Bottles of Cognac. A dose of Cocaine. By using the 5th step I can lay it out and then I see how destructive it is.

Dear Ksos, my heart goes out to you. There you have it, the reason why you respond the way you do in emotional and sexual way as an adult. It´s always good to know and it´s a sign of healing that you can discuss it on this board. It´s a sensitive issue and the scars are deep because these wrong-doers robbed us of our innocense.

I was molested at six by an elderly neighbour in Paris. I became an oversexed being after that because the experience made me a seducteresse in a child´s body. I stayed that way in my adult´s years, then a child in a seducteresse´s body. It was a great harm done and I´m still working through it.

I became a juvenile delinguent and travelled all over Europe and North-Africa. I sometimes had to let dangerous people and jailers molest me to survive. This has left a mark on me and I have problems trusting people in authority.

Juls, the anger thread is a great idea. It´s terrible what happened to you as well. We are all survivers, we may be damaged, but we are strong. Never, ever forget that. I admire all of you and I have the deepest respect for you.

Use adversity

[ksos]

To Juls:

My parents are still alive as is my mother's brother. I actually had an opportunity to bring my parents into my therapist's office shortly after I was psychiatrically hospitalized in 1994 to talk about this. Needless to say, my mother said I was a liar and walked out of the office and my father followed her. The denial has never been addressed with them since. Insofar as my uncle is concerned, my family does know enough to never, ever have the two of us in their home, hence I haven't seen him in over 20 years. He is probably close to 70 years old and I have no desire whatsoever to confront him. It is an issue which I have not worked on enough in treatment but strangely I feel that this forum has helped me finally express how angry I was about this. I guess I still am. As to your idea for an anger thread , I'm completely in favor of it, as this is a primary issue for me. It seems as though I'm constantly enraged over the most ridiculous things. And the shame. Yes, Juls, I am so ashamed of being sexually molested. He should have never touched me, I should never have allowed it, and I remain so confused as to why this went on until my late teens.

To Lilya:

The acting out sexual behavior that you describe and its connection to the current state of affairs is so true, in my opinion. When I read your posts, I see myself and it is simply remarkable how people afflicted with whatever it is we have, share so many commonalities, despite never seeing each other or talking to each other via phone or otherwise. The one thing that makes me feel for you and Juls is how it started out for the two of you. The picture I have is of two people who have been so scarred, yet have worked through some of the steps on the road back to wholeness. Even though today is a bit rough for me, I get so much support from reading your posts. I guess you went through international hell. That's really the only difference. My hell was based in the USA. Call it fear of flying


To Lilya and Juls:

Why weren't we protected? This, to me, is a fundamental right of being a child. Perhaps we need not to dwell on why not but what are we doing about it? I know that, from reading the posts on this board, my behavior and actions are directly correlated to my past. I always wanted to be a good husband to my wife, but I have failed. I wanted to raise my daughter in an intact family. And believe it or not, I want to forgive my mother and father before time takes them from me. I and they ought not to live out our lives with this as the legacy...

Funny, I'm feeling a little less angry than I did this morning. Thanks to you all. God Bless.

K

[Lilya]

Ksos,

I´m sorry your parents were not there for you in childhood and not when you were hospitalized. I´m also sorry to say that I´m not surprised. The denial is so intense - no dysfunctional parents want to admit that they did not do their duty which is protecting their child. But they know enough, but their knowledge is silent. This is why you feel the shame. Secrets create shame, but it´s not your fault. You may know it rationally, but it´s difficult to really feel your innocence emotionally. Fortunately, this can be unlearned.

Have you read "Toxic Parents" by Dr. Susan Forward? It helped me a lot and she gives good advice how to deal with anger and shame. A good idea would be to put it all on paper. Writing a letter to your uncle - and your parents - you will not send, but this will allow you to grief. Lots of good things might come out of it.

You might want to try this website if you´re not already familiar with her books. http://www.susanforward.com/

In my family, most things were talked about too openly. Dad was an artist and we lived in communes with other artists. He had mistresses and was away a lot so sometimes I was with him and his mistresses, sometimes with Mom who did not protect me. She has always been in semi-denial. But at dinnertimes we talked about the abuse and the molestation. I grew up thinking it was right (!)

My parents also thought it was right to start smoking at twelve and have sex ASAP. They thought it would make me stronger and a more talented lover. I realize now that most of their artists friends were drug abusers, but because they were all rich and famous, I didn´t realize this.

I love my father very much and now he is dying. We have had our confrontations and I have forgiven him. It took me a long time to do it, but his openness to all of this and his asking me foregiveness for his wrongdoings has been incredibly healing. He went with me to my therapist and totally admitted what he had done wrong. My mother is a different story. Her denial is cold as ice and I try not to be in her company.

This is my only answer to you about why we were not protected. God only knows. My guess is their shame and struggle of upholding the right image of the family. I do know we cannot change the past, but we can use it to make us stronger. Now important things are coming up in your search for your well-being and it will continue.

I think the anger thread will be very helpful. Depression is born of anger and powerlessness. Confronting that anger will be very important.

We went through the same hell, international or otherwise, but like my father says: The world is only really 5%. It doesn´t matter where we meet kindred spirits.

Use adversity

[Juls]

Lilya,

That blows my mind. Molestation and abuse as dinner time conversation, poor you thinking it was normal.

I always knew what was being done to me was not normal. That this wasn't happening to other girls, well I'm sure it was happening to some, but I knew it wasn't right. But I didn't have anyone to tell. One of the things that heped me to be able to move on was knowing that my mother had also had a rough childhood. She said she had been molested by her father. I know my mother did have the love she needed or wanted in her life. I only saw her truly happy one time. It was with her last husband, they really did love each other. They were only married six months and he became unexpectedly sick and died. It was his alcoholism that killed him.

Juls

[ksos]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lilya
[B]Ksos,

>>Have you read "Toxic Parents" by Dr. Susan Forward? It helped me a lot and she gives good advice how to deal with anger and shame. A good idea would be to put it all on paper. Writing a letter to your uncle - and your parents - you will not send, but this will allow you to grief. Lots of good things might come out of it.<<

Lilya...

I haven't read Dr. Forward's book, but, interestingly, I did read something this morning from Alice Miller, and I'm summarizing what I thought she meant in the writing, about forgiveness being integral to our recovery from benign neglect, overt neglect, sexual abuse, and everything that falls under the rubric of what we all have been talking about here. The forgiveness doesn't have to be expressed directly, but it came come in the form of a letter or a story--anyway which helps get this mess out of our systems. It was thought provoking.

>>My parents also thought it was right to start smoking at twelve and have sex ASAP. They thought it would make me stronger and a more talented lover. I realize now that most of their artists friends were drug abusers, but because they were all rich and famous, I didn´t realize this.<<

I had a somewhat similiar upbringing. I began smoking marijuana with my parents at 12 and with their friends. There always seemed to be "sleepover parties" at my home, where people ended up in bed with a different person with whom they came with. My parents disliked the fact that I openly brought girls into my bedroom, but they never acted on it. My father would open my door, see who I was with, and quickly close it. My feeling was that he actually was relieved that I was with a female rather than a male, but that's just supposition on my part. All of my parent's associates were addicts or so I thought. In fact, many of their friends asked me for drugs as I always had the connections and the goods, so to speak.

>>I love my father very much and now he is dying. We have had our confrontations and I have forgiven him. It took me a long time to do it, but his openness to all of this and his asking me foregiveness for his wrongdoings has been incredibly healing. He went with me to my therapist and totally admitted what he had done wrong. My mother is a different story. Her denial is cold as ice and I try not to be in her company.<<

I think that as sad as this must be for you, Lilya, forgiveness is the key. From what I read today, we need to forgive or we have to live out our lives with anger, which inevitably gets transmitted to anyone who comes close to us. Your father's ability to be open and actually asking for forgiveness is simply remarkable. I can only say that I cannot imagine this happening with my father or mother, but hearing this from you, I may need to make the first move towards a human recovery.

>>This is my only answer to you about why we were not protected. God only knows. My guess is their shame and struggle of upholding the right image of the family. I do know we cannot change the past, but we can use it to make us stronger. Now important things are coming up in your search for your well-being and it will continue.

I think the anger thread will be very helpful. Depression is born of anger and powerlessness. Confronting that anger will be very important.<<

I had a very rough night last night as my estranged wife told me about how I ruined her ability to ever love another, to ever trust another, and ran off the litany of crimes I've committed in our 15 year marraige. I told her that I cannot erase what I've done. I told her that only now I am starting to address certain issues. I also told her that I'm sorry for the pain I've caused her and my beautiful daughter. I cried last night for the first time in months as I looked into her face and saw the anguish that she was in. I know that she loved me when she was just 24. She said that I was her Prince Charming. And then she told me what I ended up being. So I admiited to her that I was a flawed human being, one with whom carried much from his childhood into his adult relationships. And I apologized for doing this to her and leaving my family unprotected. Sort of like my parents did to me...

K

[billde]

Hi Lilya
thank you for your sweet note. Iam sure that you will find what ever it is that you want are looking for in friendship/love match. I believe that once we take the time to work our program and reach out and talk with others we find the things in life we truely desire. Also H.P. has a way of working things out for us that we have problems dealing with ourselfs. So a big kiss right back to you Lilya
stay in touch
Bill

[Lilya]

Juls,
I´m sorry about your mother and what happened to her husband. I´ve been hearing a lot about similar things lately. Last chance love, and then death. It´s happened to my brother and is happening now to a good friend of mine whose husband is dying of cancer. He had recently started AA and they had a child via in vitro.

In a way I think it was a blessing in disguise that I could express myself verbally to my parents and/or their friends about the molestation - we were living in communes at times and other artist couples took over the socalled upbringing. Sometimes I have to smile, this is so crazy. They found it quite Ok that this old man tought me things. I couldn´t feel anger towards him for a long, long time and when I was a child, I was sorry he died. As in Ksos family, my parents had some kind of orgies with their artists friends and it was considered good for the children to watch everything - “see nature for what it is and not get inhibited�. Therefore, I have a high tolerance for weirdness.

Ksos,
I´m familiar with Alice Miller´s work, but it´s hard for me to read in English. I haven´t found a good French translation. I think it´s true what you say about forgiveness. I also think it´s a very long process. I tried confronting these issues with both my parents, my anger being first and foremost towards them letting the Social Services take my oldest daughter away from me when I was in my teens, then the molestation and their unability to be real parents. My mother actually made fun of me and my daughter for a long time. This makes me sad even now. Foregiveness is the key, but the steps are difficult. your post has encouraged me to reread the book of Marie Cardinale, “Les Mots pour le dire� (Words of freedom). In it there is a beautiful chapter on foregiveness after years and years of terrible abuse, but she forgives her mother when she is dead. Her first step is admiring her mother´s talents and positive traits while sitting on her grave and drawing her name in the sand.

I find it very touching and brave that you admitted the nature of your wrongs to your estranged wife. It´s a big step and I can sense your sincerity. I would like to draw your attention to the fact that even if your wife has said she cannot love again because of her experience with you, it doesn´t have to be that way. It´s not the situation, it´s how we deal with it. It´s not the heartache, but how we grow from it. We can be victims or we can be volonteers. My fiancé ran away just before our wedding, but I chose not to let that ruin me, although it almost did. I could love again and I did love my ex-husband very much. Now I´m working towards inner peace and well-being if I want to love again. Remember what Dalai Lama said about the enemy: “The enemy is our greatest teacher because only through him can we learn true compassion and tenacity.

It´s right what you say, Bill, we often choose addicts like us who have no program. So true. I believe we are always in the process of meeting and challenging something in ourselves via a partner. Thanks for reminding me that my HP is working for me in the way of love. Right now I think he´s testing me by teasing me - sending me that eye doctor. :shades: The old guy has a sense of humor. Thanks, Bill, your posts are a treat.

Love and light,

Use adversity

[ksos]

Lilya...

The words you write ring so true. Today, I did something that I haven't done in a very long time. I spent the entire day with my 11 year old daughter as the NYC schools were closed for Yom Kippur. We spent hours and hours doing her homework and started working on a school project. We went shopping for a few school supplies. We played an electronic game together. And I realized just now that I haven't done these things since she was in pre-school.

I chose today not to be a victim. Normally, I would have spent the day self-absorbed into whatever I wanted to do and left her alone. I wanted to be there today and she told me that she had a very special "Daddy Day." This is what I've missed so much, Lilya. I want to make this a sustained effort and not wait until she is drawing pictures in the sand thinking about what her father was not.

My spouse tried to rain on my day by asking if I "did" the project for my daughter. I resisted my impulse and smiled right at her and said, "No. She did it and I'm so proud of how responsible she was today." Made her cringe, I'm sure

The movement towards my recovery is going to be challenging. I am starting to look at the enemy within myself instead of looking at my parents or my spouse as the source of my unhappiness.

I did feel a lump in my throat when I read that part about your mother making fun of you and your daughter as well as that part about social services...God, how one needs to strive for self-actualization in order to reconcile these hurts. Being laughed at for what? Suffering? That's a real trigger for me. I can really get off on that, but it's not my place.

Thank you, Lilya. God Bless.

K

[Juls]

KSOS,

It's good that you were able to apologise to your wife. Maby I misunderstood this sentece:

My spouse tried to rain on my day by asking if I "did" the project for my daughter. I resisted my impulse and smiled right at her and said, "No. She did it and I'm so proud of how responsible she was today." Made her cringe, I'm sure

but it sounds like you got some kind of enjoyment out making her "cringe," which I don't understand.

Lilya,

Your story reminds me of a family that lived down the street from me when my son was young. The parents were very "open" about sex in front of their kids. The mother had a lover who slept in the bed with her and her husband. They had orgies at their house when the kids were around, etc.

I always wondered how those kids turned out, and if that had had a negative impact on them, or not.

Juls

[Lilya]

Ksos,
I´m happy for you and your daughter and I´m glad you had a nice day together. You are on your way towards healing the child inside you, as well as your daugthter. I believe this is the right way.

Yes, parents can be toxic. No doubt about that. My mother has never gotten over her guilt when she signed away the release form, making the social services adopt my daughter. I was a juvenile and in drugs and couldn´t care for her, that´s true, but I felt she could have helped us. I had another daughter two years later and this time she did help me, along with my aunts.But her guilt came through by making fun at me. She kept saying: “A junkie mother with a daughter who doesn´t even know her own father. What a great combination.� I really hated her for that. Then one evening, there was a documentary on TV about mothers who had given their children up for adoption and she was watching it alone. I noticed she was crying silently and I know she was crying for me.

Now I have my nieces with me most weekends and sometimes for weeks on end we travel together to the South of France, Italy, to Scandinavia and to an island in Spain.Being in their companies makes me so happy, it goes a long way towards healing myself.

I can understand you felt vindicated when your wife gave that sniding remark and you responded in an assertive way. Being a victim is a way of stagnation. You cannot really move forward in that state. I hope your wife will soon work on her anger towards you, so she can start her progress too.

Hang in there and do join the Anger thread. I believe the key is there.

Juls,
About the kids you remember, I couldn´t say. I have two brothers and one sister. My sister turned out a paragon of virtue, except when she´s an alcaholic, but otherwise had avery conventional life. No seduction, no lovers, only one husband and she´s still married. My older brother to whom I´m closest is an artist as well and slightly weird. He´s in AA, has 20 years now. My younger brother is a doctor and drinks, but I don´t think he´s that dysfunctional. He is just very uptight, like he´s raising his kids totally different from the upbringing we had.

Use adversity

[ksos]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Juls
[B]KSOS,

It's good that you were able to apologise to your wife. Maby I misunderstood this sentece:

My spouse tried to rain on my day by asking if I "did" the project for my daughter. I resisted my impulse and smiled right at her and said, "No. She did it and I'm so proud of how responsible she was today." Made her cringe, I'm sure

but it sounds like you got some kind of enjoyment out making her "cringe," which I don't understand.<<

Juls...

You didn't misunderstand the sentence at all. I did get enjoyment out of saying what I did. I have always felt accused by my wife as well as others--and this is why I posted on this issue on the Anger Thread a few minutes ago. It's a character problem of mine. Everything I do is questioned and the sad thing is that it is warranted most of the time. As the saying goes, history repeats itself and in this case, feeling unjustly accused, I responded in a primitive manner.

K