Had an interview today...

[ClayTheScribe]

I had an interview today with a newspaper that's only an hour away from where I live. It's basically a dream entry level J job. I think the interview went okay for the most part, though I said I hadn't had to take photos since high school and I don't think I showed enough knowledge about the town. But then she told me the salary: $30-34,000. That was way more than I thought I would earn in my first J job which leads me to believe they're likely going to pick someone more experienced for the job. So I'm assuming I didn't get the job, which is really depressing. I really want this job, it's perfect, and I'm afraid if I don't get it I'll be so depressed I might start drinking again.

I guess I'm kinda jumping the shark, but I just don't feel I got it. There is most definitely better, more experienced candidates than me. I'm getting tired of failing when it comes to jobs, I'd just like to have one success.

[Bamboozle]

Clay, you made the effort and landed an interview in the field you want to be in. That's a lot more than I've been able to do.

Keep sending out your resume. Keep trying no matter what. Send out your resume now to other places. Get as much exposure as you can.

I have a good friend who just got her masters this summer. She sent out her resume to dozens of places and was rejected by all. She was running out of money...down to the wire...but she didn't give up. She ended up landing a really good job doing what she loves.

Be persistent. Sending out resumes and showing up for interviews is the most important thing you can do.

It would be awesome if you land this job. If you don't get it, don't let that stop you from sending out your resume.

[ClayTheScribe]

God, how much easier this process would be if I didn't have depression. I wouldn't be racked with disappointment and calling myself a failure for days on end.

It's just easier for me to assume I didn't get the job so I'm not as disappointed. I know that's probably not the right way but it works for me. I'll keep sending clips and resumes out there, I'm even trying out-of-state places because I don't want to be stuck in a job I hate, even if I have to move away from my loved ones. It's gotta happen soon though or I'm gonna feel like a real loser.

[liveweyerd]

Clay, I have often noticed how well you write. That speaks for itself, I think.
But, I am sure you know that it is a really tough industry right now with lots of lay-offs...so lots of competition.
But I am sure you are the best man for the job!
If they don't recognize it, they lose.
Someone will!

[liveweyerd]

Do they even tell people they are not interested in the salary????????????????

[ClayTheScribe]

Originally Posted by liveweyerd

Do they even tell people they are not interested in the salary????????????????

I don't think so. I just asked what the pay was, I assume all the other candidates will ask as well. I just thought it was a bit high of a salary to be potentially offering to someone who's entry-level, for a journalism job that is. In teaching, I guess that salary is the norm for new teachers. I'm going to talk to my mentor now and see what he thinks about it.

Thanks for the kind words, Liveweyered/

[Bamboozle]

Clay, you're like me in that I'm always counting on worst case scenarios so that I can better handle disappointment.

Only thing is that the benefit gained isn't worth the anxiety and grief...so I'm trying my best to leave that mentality behind.

Don't shoot yourself down. Just say no to distorted thinking.


Don't look at it as "I probably won't get the job". Instead, tell yourself, "I sent out my resume and landed an interview. Not only did I land the interview, I went to the interview. I rock." You'd be surprised at how many people do not make the kind of effort you've put in to finding a job. Many graduates are lazy. I sure was. I didn't try to do anything and stayed in my comfort zone of crappy food service jobs.


I'm so happy to see that you're putting yourself out there, Clay. You do rock. Big smiles.

[ClayTheScribe]

Thanks Bamboozle.

I just think right now it seems a little too good to be true.

I think preparing for the worst, being a pessimist can work if it doesn't get your depressed. I haven't quite figured out how to achieve the second part of the equation.

My mentor recommend I send a follow-up letter thanking the editor for the chance to interview, how excited I am at the possibility, how I'm thinking of stories I could do and if she needs anything else from me. So I'm sending that tomorrow. Hopefully that will help my case.

A part of me says this job could be mine, but I'm too afraid to accept that because that means things are turning around for me big time, and I didn't expect that for several more months or a year from now. And that I have to get my $hit together mentally and emotionally quick.

I have hope, but it's fleeting...

[mattcake79]

Clay, the last time I brought up irrational beliefs or - in Bam's gentler words - distorted thinking, you got upset at me.

Hopefully you won't react in a similar way this time around, as I am definitely not judging you, rather I'm trying to uncover different attitudes and perspectives for you to consider.

Originally Posted by ClayTheScribe

I had an interview today with a newspaper that's only an hour away from where I live. It's basically a dream entry level J job. I think the interview went okay for the most part, though I said I hadn't had to take photos since high school and I don't think I showed enough knowledge about the town.

Job interviews are, at the very least, great opportunities for practising communication skills. No candidate is perfect, hopefully mastering photography isn't a deal breaker... and you did show honesty. That's always an asset.

Originally Posted by ClayTheScribe

But then she told me the salary: $30-34,000. That was way more than I thought I would earn in my first J job which leads me to believe they're likely going to pick someone more experienced for the job.

IMHO, this is a positive sign - I doubt interviewers discuss remuneration with candidates that come across as being flat-out unsuitable for the job. You asked about this, and they responded.

Originally Posted by ClayTheScribe

So I'm assuming I didn't get the job, which is really depressing. I really want this job, it's perfect, and I'm afraid if I don't get it I'll be so depressed I might start drinking again.

Assumptions are always tricky - in reality, the jury is still out, at the moment there is no way for you to know how this will develop. I'm not playing mind games with you, but there are hundreds of situations that could potentially trigger your cravings. You are, in fact, committed to sobriety however, so even if you don't get the job, you might find some confidence within you to accept the result. And, hey, maybe you'll get it

Originally Posted by ClayTheScribe

(...) but I just don't feel I got it. There is most definitely better, more experienced candidates than me. I'm getting tired of failing when it comes to jobs, I'd just like to have one success.

This is, imho, very understandable. Wishing for situations to work out well for us is only natural. However, not getting the job does not automatically mean you're a failure; on the flip side, getting what you want doesn't necessarily guarantee success.

I don't know about other candidates being "better" than you. We are all unique, we all have strengths as well as weaker points. Comparing yourself to others is probably not helpful - circumstances beyond your control do not determine your worth. However, facing the challenge and accepting the outcome -whatever it might be- does speak volumes about your potential.

Having said all this, of course I hope you do get the job. I'll stop the brain picking now. Good luck, and keep us posted - chin up

[ClayTheScribe]

Originally Posted by mattcake79

Clay, the last time I brought up irrational beliefs or - in Bam's gentler words - distorted thinking, you got upset at me.

Hey Mattcake,

Sorry for getting upset with you that time. That was my depression talking. It gets angry when it feels it's being threatened, same as the alcoholism.

Hopefully you won't react in a similar way this time around, as I am definitely not judging you, rather I'm trying to uncover different attitudes and perspectives for you to consider.

Job interviews are, at the very least, great opportunities for practising communication skills. No candidate is perfect, hopefully mastering photography isn't a deal breaker... and you did show honesty. That's always an asset.

True, I thought I did communicate pretty well.

IMHO, this is a positive sign - I doubt interviewers discuss remuneration with candidates that come across as being flat-out unsuitable for the job. You asked about this, and they responded.

Eh, gonna have to disagree with you on that one. I think they'd tell anyone the salary. The place I interview with before told me the salary before I even came in for a physical interview. Thanks for trying to pep me up though.

Assumptions are always tricky - in reality, the jury is still out, at the moment there is no way for you to know how this will develop. I'm not playing mind games with you, but there are hundreds of situations that could potentially trigger your cravings. You are, in fact, committed to sobriety however, so even if you don't get the job, you might find some confidence within you to accept the result. And, hey, maybe you'll get it

I'm not so good with having confidence after a defeat, though I should by now since I've failed so many other times in my life. I am tempted to drink, but I know I won't if I don't get it because I always usually avoid drinking when I'm down. Plus I know my friends and family would tell me to get back on the horse and try again. The only reason it'll be especially disappointing is because it's such a dream job for me.

This is, imho, very understandable. Wishing for situations to work out well for us is only natural. However, not getting the job does not automatically mean you're a failure; on the flip side, getting what you want doesn't necessarily guarantee success.

Getting offered this job would mean a great success to me. Whether I'm successful in the job is up to me.

I don't know about other candidates being "better" than you. We are all unique, we all have strengths as well as weaker points. Comparing yourself to others is probably not helpful - circumstances beyond your control do not determine your worth. However, facing the challenge and accepting the outcome -whatever it might be- does speak volumes about your potential.

Thanks. I didn't mean to say there are other candidates better than me, just that they're likely more experienced than me, and in the employer's eyes, more worthy of a $30-34,000 salary. The norm for entry level in my field is $20-24,000. That's why I'm skeptical about landing the position. Though my mentor thought it was a reasonable wage...

Having said all this, of course I hope you do get the job. I'll stop the brain picking now. Good luck, and keep us posted - chin up

Thank you very much for your words. I know you're right. It's just part of my process to assume I didn't get it so I'm not as disappointed when I hear a no, and surprised if I hear a yes. It seems like a sad and maybe unhealthy way to go through life, but it helps me cope with the anxiety of anticipation and not knowing. I'm also nervous about getting it because that means I'm going to have to change a lot with my lifestyle fast, though I'm willing to make the changes.

And I'll try not to get upset when I'm given good advice next time ;-)

[Bamboozle]

Every time I'm in therapy and I start up with the self-doubt my therapist is quick to point out, "you're kicking your ass!"

Clay, stop kicking your ass.

You won't be disappointed when you hear a no, true, but in order for it to be that way you have to knock yourself down several pegs. You tell yourself you’re not qualified enough…yadda yadda…and on it goes until you feel like crap regardless. Then the depression gets more fuel. I know you know how this goes…and the place you end up isn’t pretty.

For a long time I saw this: no = rejection.


Now I’m trying to see this instead: no = no. I am not a reject no matter the outcome of a situation. I can’t control other people or their circumstances. I can, however, control my side of things. I do what I can and keep plowing away.

Think of it this way, Clay. Why should negative thoughts take precedence over positive thoughts? Why validate negative thoughts? Aren't positive thoughts at least as valid? And if precedence was given to negative thoughts, couldn't precedence be given instead to positive thoughts?

[zoomer]

I just finished school with an AAS,but I had to get a job at a department store because the good jobs in my field are all taken by people with BS's. Jobs are just so hard to find now days that you might have to take something out of your field to make a living until the job market opens up. I was down too,but I'm going to be taking extra computer courses to have a better chance at getting a good job. Keep moving forward and try not to be so down on yourself.

[liveweyerd]

AHHHH....YES! The follow-up letter. Few people use that anymore even tho' it used to be a customary courtesy. And it shows positive qualities for journalism...detail, follow-up, communication, style, courtesy and respect......and persistence...these things aren't taught in school!
ROCK ON!

[ClayTheScribe]

Originally Posted by Bamboozle

Every time I'm in therapy and I start up with the self-doubt my therapist is quick to point out, "you're kicking your ass!"

Clay, stop kicking your ass.

You won't be disappointed when you hear a no, true, but in order for it to be that way you have to knock yourself down several pegs. You tell yourself you’re not qualified enough…yadda yadda…and on it goes until you feel like crap regardless. Then the depression gets more fuel. I know you know how this goes…and the place you end up isn’t pretty.

For a long time I saw this: no = rejection.


Now I’m trying to see this instead: no = no. I am not a reject no matter the outcome of a situation. I can’t control other people or their circumstances. I can, however, control my side of things. I do what I can and keep plowing away.

Think of it this way, Clay. Why should negative thoughts take precedence over positive thoughts? Why validate negative thoughts? Aren't positive thoughts at least as valid? And if precedence was given to negative thoughts, couldn't precedence be given instead to positive thoughts?

No does equal rejection. I don't like to pretend I'm in a fantasy world. However, I agree I can control how I deal with rejection. I'm just usually not very good at it, which is why I've had so many problems in the romance department. but that horse has been beaten to death. If someone says no to you, whether on a date or for a job, they are rejecting you. Doesn't make you a reject necessarily, just means they didn't want you for whatever reason. But if thinking otherwise helps you, go for it.

I'm not kicking my ass, I'm just being realistic. Keep in mind you don't all know how the journalism field works, but I do. And there's realistically a good chance I won't get the job, so I'm preparing for that possibility. There is no preparation necessary for getting the job as obviously that'll be great. I just need to prepare myself for disappointment.

And I've been looking for jobs outside of my desired field for two months and no such luck. Apparently not a lot of entry-level jobs out there. That and I don't know what other fields I'm even qualified for. I'm trying to become a substitute teacher but it's such an arduous, long, costly process. Whatever. And I have no retail experience so no department store will hire me. I've gone too far to go back to fast food. I need a job that'll get me out of my parents' house.

[mattcake79]

Originally Posted by ClayTheScribe

My mentor recommend I send a follow-up letter thanking the editor for the chance to interview, how excited I am at the possibility, how I'm thinking of stories I could do and if she needs anything else from me. So I'm sending that tomorrow. Hopefully that will help my case.

I completely overlooked this!!

Originally Posted by liveweyerd

AHHHH....YES! The follow-up letter. Few people use that anymore even tho' it used to be a customary courtesy. And it shows positive qualities for journalism...detail, follow-up, communication, style, courtesy and respect......and persistence...these things aren't taught in school!
ROCK ON!

So true, LW!! I once applied for a job at a big corporation - a job that I didn't really want at the time, as I was busy with other stuff... so after a half-hearted interview that went *very* badly, I told them I wasn't interested before they even had a chance to dismiss me, LOL.

For some reason though, I snail-mailed a very basic handwritten note to Human Resources, thanking them for their time, and then forgot all about it. Within a week, the guy who had interviewed me called and offered me the job. I was so surprised... We talked for a while, and he said that the note had made a big difference, as it had prompted him to reconsider my "attitude", as he put it.

I guess it was just good karma - for once.

Clay, I hope you do send that letter!

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by ClayTheScribe

No does equal rejection. I don't like to pretend I'm in a fantasy world. However, I agree I can control how I deal with rejection. I'm just usually not very good at it, which is why I've had so many problems in the romance department. but that horse has been beaten to death. If someone says no to you, whether on a date or for a job, they are rejecting you. Doesn't make you a reject necessarily, just means they didn't want you for whatever reason. But if thinking otherwise helps you, go for it.

I most certainly don't live in a fantasy world, Clay. It comes down to choosing how you look at life. Every human being looks at this world with biased eyes. You have a choice: you can be positive or negative. The words reject and rejection are very negative. I choose not to hold onto them. No means no. Anyone who says no to me is missing out. Their loss, not mine.

Originally Posted by ClayTheScribe

I'm not kicking my ass, I'm just being realistic. Keep in mind you don't all know how the journalism field works, but I do.

Clay, I'm in the arts. I have a snowball's chance in Hades of ever being able to live solely off of my artwork. I know how difficult it is. The successful ones do not beat themselves up and they keep going no matter how many times they hear “no”. They stay positive.

Originally Posted by ClayTheScribe

And there's realistically a good chance I won't get the job, so I'm preparing for that possibility. There is no preparation necessary for getting the job as obviously that'll be great. I just need to prepare myself for disappointment.

You’ve already prepared yourself for disappointment.

Suppose you get the job. Do you think the anxiety will go away? Will you be constantly worrying that the work you do isn't good enough? When does the negative thinking end?

I suspect that you’ve been doing this most of your life. I know I have. And it hasn’t done me any good to have this kind of mentality. The way I’ve been doing things obviously doesn’t work. Negativity helps nothing. It's taken me a long time to get this but I'm so glad I finally do.


There are so many good qualities in you and I wish you would believe in yourself. If you believe in yourself and stay positive you'll be able to handle anything.

[liveweyerd]

Yeah, there was a job I really wanted years ago..I sent the courtesy letter.
And later followed up with another letter stating my continued interest.
And in time followed that up with a phone call.
I got the job and was on my way from there.....

And yes, Clay, the journalism biz IS really tough right now.
But you have found a good opening and am glad you are making a run for it!
Even if they choose someone else, you can write them and thank them for considering you and state your continued interest if their are openings in the future.
And yeah, brush up on that particular mag/newspaper and the area and use some of that in your letters.

The job I am wanting now isn't even funded yet and there will be alot of applicants...I have started networking months ahead.

[ClayTheScribe]

Originally Posted by Bamboozle

I most certainly don't live in a fantasy world, Clay. It comes down to choosing how you look at life. Every human being looks at this world with biased eyes. You have a choice: you can be positive or negative. The words reject and rejection are very negative. I choose not to hold onto them. No means no. Anyone who says no to me is missing out. Their loss, not mine.

I like that mentality. I just don't take words on their own as seriously as everyone else. Reject and rejection are just words. The only value they have is what you give to them. I give them no value. Therefore they don't hurt me. They just mean to be not selected. I'm comfortable being rejected.

Clay, I'm in the arts. I have a snowball's chance in Hades of ever being able to live solely off of my artwork. I know how difficult it is. The successful ones do not beat themselves up and they keep going no matter how many times they hear “no”. They stay positive.

I'll keep that in mind.

You’ve already prepared yourself for disappointment.

Suppose you get the job. Do you think the anxiety will go away? Will you be constantly worrying that the work you do isn't good enough? When does the negative thinking end?

The worrying has always been with me and likely won't go away until the depression lifts, which might happen if I get this job or might not. A friend once told me she had to let her depression run its course. That you shouldn't rush your way out of it. Mine is on the way out and it's leaving at a moderate pace, but more steady. Being unemployed is what's slowing it down.

I am going to worry if I'm doing a good enough job and that drives me to perfect my work. I just have to not let it take over my whole being. My main worry will be if I can handle the job at all, a question I can't answer until I try it. A little anxiety's not always a bad thing. You're right about negative thinking though, it has to end. I'm working on that. Right now I have about equal parts hope and pessimism so I'll be able to handle either scenario. Part of my coping is to pretend I never had the interview and to go on applying for other jobs.

I suspect that you’ve been doing this most of your life. I know I have. And it hasn’t done me any good to have this kind of mentality. The way I’ve been doing things obviously doesn’t work. Negativity helps nothing. It's taken me a long time to get this but I'm so glad I finally do.

Don't mistake my coping mechanism as negativity. I'm not beating myself up over this and I won't.

There are so many good qualities in you and I wish you would believe in yourself. If you believe in yourself and stay positive you'll be able to handle anything.

I do believe in myself, as much as I am able to. I believe in my abilities and talents and my limitations and defects. I feel I have to accept them all to feel whole. I'm just trying to be realistic while still dreaming. I agree staying positive is most desirable, but as you know, and indicated in your posts in the past few weeks, it's not always easy when you have depression. I try my best though. I'm a dreamer, I just don't want to be unrealistic.

[Bamboozle]

It's not easy, Clay, but getting relief from depression...at least that I'm learning...has nothing to do with acquiring things.

I still haven't been in a relationship.

I still live with my parents.

I still don't have a car.

I still don't have a social life.

I'm still working in food service.

None of the above listed is to my satisfaction...yet I am getting better. I'm finding peace within myself. And it's so very important that my meds are working. I cannot stress that one enough. I recently got a bump up 2 weeks ago. I absolutely cannot function well if my meds aren't working. When my meds are working I have the opportunity for self-reflection and discovery. I cannot do that when the depression is in control.



I have to go to work in a few. Talk to you later.

[TakingCharge999]

I agree, now the ball is on their court, so YOU get to look for other opportunities, write to other mags, etc...

Don't lay all your eggs in one basket!

[ClayTheScribe]

Thanks all for the advice. After analyzing what I said in the interview and what they want from a candidate, I'm pretty certain I didn't get the job. However, I'm taking TakingCharge999's advice and applying to a bunch of places, including publications out-of-state. There's one in Wisconsin, which would be nice since my brother works for the Packers and he'd be like 2 hours away. There's several others, some I would be more likely to get.

I have a question: When a potential employer asks for a resume and clips, should I send a cover letter even if they don't ask for one?

[ClayTheScribe]

Originally Posted by mattcake79

I guess it was just good karma - for once.

I did send that letter.

(Good) karma's just not been coming my way much, so I'm going to volunteer and hope that helps. I've probably been too self-centered and selfish, so the universe isn't going to send me any good. And I've been depressed, therefore surrounding by negative energy.

[WantToHeal]

My opinion...send the cover letter along with the resume and clips. I'd keep it to one page, but a cover letter is a very good opportunity to sell your strengths and show your interest in the position. It also provides you with the chance to tie things from your resume together, to show how your education and past positions held relate to one another and make you a good candidate.

Based on your writing skills, I bet you could do a really good job with this.

And BTW, since I didn't jump into this thread earlier, nice touch with the thank you letter after the interview. I always send a letter out after a job interview, thanking the interviewer for his/her/their time, sharing some insight about the company that I took away from the interview (shows you're paying attention!), and trying to link my skills and experience to their needs. On more than one occasion, I've had new employers remark that the thank you letter really made a difference, and how it seems to be a lost art these days.

Feel free to pm me if you need any help with resumes or cover letters. I seem to be the go-to guy in my family for this. I just reworked a resume for my brother-in-law, who lost his job of 14 years as an industrial plant manager. I don't think he had ever had to write a resume before this year. @#$^%@#$% economy...

[ClayTheScribe]

Originally Posted by WantToHeal

My opinion...send the cover letter along with the resume and clips. I'd keep it to one page, but a cover letter is a very good opportunity to sell your strengths and show your interest in the position. It also provides you with the chance to tie things from your resume together, to show how your education and past positions held relate to one another and make you a good candidate.

Based on your writing skills, I bet you could do a really good job with this.

Yeah but when it comes to the third paragraph where I have to mention something about the company/newspaper and the town/city it's in, I feel it comes across forced and like I B.S.ed it. I don't think a good cover letter will do that much good since I don't have much experience in the field. I'm in the running for jobs with out-of-work journalists who may want to work for more but are more qualified than me.

And BTW, since I didn't jump into this thread earlier, nice touch with the thank you letter after the interview. I always send a letter out after a job interview, thanking the interviewer for his/her/their time, sharing some insight about the company that I took away from the interview (shows you're paying attention!), and trying to link my skills and experience to their needs.

I didn't do the last two things. Figures. I wouldn't get the job anyway.

On more than one occasion, I've had new employers remark that the thank you letter really made a difference, and how it seems to be a lost art these days.

Feel free to pm me if you need any help with resumes or cover letters. I seem to be the go-to guy in my family for this. I just reworked a resume for my brother-in-law, who lost his job of 14 years as an industrial plant manager. I don't think he had ever had to write a resume before this year. @#$^%@#$% economy...

Thanks, will do.

[liveweyerd]

any news?