Dealing with lack of intimacy

[ClayTheScribe]

I'm not sure if this is the right section of the forum to post this, but I figured it has a great deal to do with my mental health.

I can still smell the stripper's scent on me. When she was grinding on me, it reminded me of what I lack: intimacy. I'm bi, but I've never had sex with a man or woman and I'm 24. It's a point of personal embarrassment, although I've kind of got over it over the years. It's mostly due to the fact that part of my depression is anxiety, social anxiety and not taking as many risks. On top of that, I'm 70 pounds overweight and I do not really consider myself physically attractive. And despite what people try to tell me, I still believe physical good looks play the major component in whether people my age are attracted to someone or not. So because of that and what the depression does to me, I just don't have much confidence to approach a guy or girl I like for fear of likely rejection and know they're not going to be attracted to someone with poor confidence as people are attracted to confidence. And more than intimacy I want someone with whom to share my love and affection, but no one since my first and only girlfriend at 16 has let me get that close.

My therapist encourages me to distract myself when those thoughts come up, but it only seems to bury it temporarily only to come back stronger later on. It just makes me so depressed and I don't know how to deal with these feelings, not to mention the pressing sexual frustration (which of course I can handle on my own, but only presents a temporary fix). It makes it worse when I hear of other people my age having sex and being intimate with their partners. Even when I was exercising regularly, I still didn't find myself much more attractive or have more confidence. Partly this may be my erroneous perception of what's attractive from being barraged by the media, and I know too as a result of that I have high standards as far as looks go. I've tried dating sites like Match.com and OKCupid but I don't really get anywhere with anyone or manage to say something that turns them away. I just want to be a new person with confidence and a new body, and not feel embarrassed about being a 24-year-old virgin with scars from cutting on his legs. I just want a relationship with intimacy and that feels so far away, which makes me more depressed, and keeps my confidence low. I'm just so tired of feeling sorry for myself for something that's been mostly in my control for so long.

I don't suppose there's anything anyone could say to make me feel better about this, I just wanted to share. Back to distracting myself with sleep, internship, school and work. Let's hope it can work enough until I can move somewhere else and start a new job and start anew.

[RockyGirl]

Originally Posted by ClayTheScribe

I'm not sure if this is the right section of the forum to post this, but I figured it has a great deal to do with my mental health.

I can still smell the stripper's scent on me. When she was grinding on me, it reminded me of what I lack: intimacy. I'm bi, but I've never had sex with a man or woman and I'm 24. It's a point of personal embarrassment, although I've kind of got over it over the years. It's mostly due to the fact that part of my depression is anxiety, social anxiety and not taking as many risks. On top of that, I'm 70 pounds overweight and I do not really consider myself physically attractive. And despite what people try to tell me, I still believe physical good looks play the major component in whether people my age are attracted to someone or not. So because of that and what the depression does to me, I just don't have much confidence to approach a guy or girl I like for fear of likely rejection and know they're not going to be attracted to someone with poor confidence as people are attracted to confidence. And more than intimacy I want someone with whom to share my love and affection, but no one since my first and only girlfriend at 16 has let me get that close.

My therapist encourages me to distract myself when those thoughts come up, but it only seems to bury it temporarily only to come back stronger later on. It just makes me so depressed and I don't know how to deal with these feelings, not to mention the pressing sexual frustration (which of course I can handle on my own, but only presents a temporary fix). It makes it worse when I hear of other people my age having sex and being intimate with their partners. Even when I was exercising regularly, I still didn't find myself much more attractive or have more confidence. Partly this may be my erroneous perception of what's attractive from being barraged by the media, and I know too as a result of that I have high standards as far as looks go. I've tried dating sites like Match.com and OKCupid but I don't really get anywhere with anyone or manage to say something that turns them away. I just want to be a new person with confidence and a new body, and not feel embarrassed about being a 24-year-old virgin with scars from cutting on his legs. I just want a relationship with intimacy and that feels so far away, which makes me more depressed, and keeps my confidence low. I'm just so tired of feeling sorry for myself for something that's been mostly in my control for so long.

I don't suppose there's anything anyone could say to make me feel better about this, I just wanted to share. Back to distracting myself with sleep, internship, school and work. Let's hope it can work enough until I can move somewhere else and start a new job and start anew.

Hi Clay

you've been helping me so much recently with my problems that I thought i'd share with you.

I am generally hetrosexual and have had six different sexual partners that started from the age of 14. to be perfectly honest sex has never really 'worked' for me...I always seem to feel more lost and empty afterwards than I did before but that's just me...not trying to put you off.

I think if you have low confidence people tend to avoid you because they don't know what to say to you and since low self-esteem/confidence isn't something that just flutters away with the butterflys (unfortunately) we are stuck with it...until such a time that we can start to overcome it...although to be honest I think a portion of it will stay with us forever (not trying to be pessimistic it's just what i've observed from friends and family members who are older than me)

Have you tried meeting people with similar problems to yourself? I often find that I find it easier to communicate with people who have similar problems to myself because then I can identify with them and we can comfort each other in any times of need.

I think for people in our situations the answer is not to sleep around or anything (not that you would) but to find someone who we truly care about who, in turn really cares about us. Only then can intimacy be enjoyed.

This is just my opinion and seeing as I have given up hope of finding someone and I will be horrible to people I meet anyway I have no right to dictate your life!

Sorry for this seemingly long and pointless post :-S

But if there is anyway I could help you please let me know

Aimee

[123bubblegum123]

Clay,

I think what the poster above me said was spot on. In order for me to feel comfortable around other people, I have to have personal things in common with them. I would assume there to be some type of online accessible place for people who either have intimacy issues, voluntarily chose to remain virgins, or just haven't found the right person to talk and possibly even hang out and become friends exists.

Although I am not a virgin, and haven't been for a while now, over the past 8 or 9 months I stopped really putting myself out there to guys. I wanted to take time for myself without having to hook up with people and wake up feeling used or lonlier than before. I've always been a naturally monogomous person, which is challenging in a college setting. But, alas, even when I was in a "committed" relationship with a man, that commitment was hardly ever mutual or taken seriously, and it really burned my ability to trust and feel wanted in an intimate way.

Although I might be on the opposite end of you, I can relate to wanting a real intimate bond with someone. For now though, to avoid settling for strippers or other non-interpersonal sexual interactions, maybe try to focus on forming actual emotional bonds with other people. You'd be surprised how fantastic and rewarding relationships like that can be, be them friendships or love affairs. And take the physical aspect slowly, as you don't want to rush someone and you, yourself, should not be rushed. Sex is a big deal, despite what MTV and pop culture want us to believe

Stay safe,
Rach

[ClayTheScribe]

Originally Posted by RockyGirl

Hi Clay

you've been helping me so much recently with my problems that I thought i'd share with you.

I am generally hetrosexual and have had six different sexual partners that started from the age of 14. to be perfectly honest sex has never really 'worked' for me...I always seem to feel more lost and empty afterwards than I did before but that's just me...not trying to put you off.

I think if you have low confidence people tend to avoid you because they don't know what to say to you and since low self-esteem/confidence isn't something that just flutters away with the butterflys (unfortunately) we are stuck with it...until such a time that we can start to overcome it...although to be honest I think a portion of it will stay with us forever (not trying to be pessimistic it's just what i've observed from friends and family members who are older than me)

I think low self-esteem can leave us completely because I've had at least one time for a few months in my life where I was a lot more confident, it's just getting back to that has been very difficult, and it almost seems impossible. How do you build confidence? That's why I need to lose a lot of weight, though my dad says he could go out and get a bunch of numbers with my body. It's mostly just embarrassing and depressing to be a virgin still at this age and I'm not sure what women my age think about that.

Have you tried meeting people with similar problems to yourself? I often find that I find it easier to communicate with people who have similar problems to myself because then I can identify with them and we can comfort each other in any times of need.

I'm going to a mental health support group this Friday, but I doubt I'm going to meet other men my age in my situation. There are really no unintentional virgin groups out there. And to me it is a different thing if a woman is still a virgin by this age, it makes more sense and it's seen as less of a social gaffe. If you have any suggestions for how I can find these other men, let me know. Though I don't know if it'll really help to know there are others out there suffering in the same situation. It doesn't change anything abut my reality.

I think for people in our situations the answer is not to sleep around or anything (not that you would) but to find someone who we truly care about who, in turn really cares about us. Only then can intimacy be enjoyed.

I've been trying to find someone who cares about me and whom I care about. Sleeping with a random person has it's risks, and when I tell them I've never had sex and that I have scars on my legs from cutting, if they don't take off, are going to be disappointed in bed. It's just hard finding someone who's attracted to me and to whom I'm attracted.

This is just my opinion and seeing as I have given up hope of finding someone and I will be horrible to people I meet anyway I have no right to dictate your life!

You should never give up, especially at 19. Not even I've given up on finding someone. And you've attracted at least a few people in your life, enough to have sex with you, so you're doing better than me there. You said you feel empty after having sex, was that because you didn't love the person? And were you ever sexually abused? (Feel free to answer that last question in a private message) Regardless, I don't think sex should be an issue to deal with in your state these days and it's probably not the right time for a relationship right now. But never give up. Just wait until you're better and more stable and loving yourself again.

Sorry for this seemingly long and pointless post :-S

It wasn't too long or pointless, you were just trying to help and I appreciate it. Just know I'm gonna hassle you every time you put yourself down. ;-)

But if there is anyway I could help you please let me know

I think this is just something I'm gonna have to figure out by myself. Thanks.

[Bamboozle]

Hello, Clay.

I sent you a PM.


I'm in therapy in part for those issues, besides the alcohol thing, suicidal thoughts, etc.


Could you do therapy? It's nice to have someone to talk to who isn't judgmental...and who I can tell anything to. I'm working on building my confidence one block at a time. It's not easy...but what else am I going to do?

[ClayTheScribe]

Originally Posted by 123bubblegum123

Clay,

I think what the poster above me said was spot on. In order for me to feel comfortable around other people, I have to have personal things in common with them. I would assume there to be some type of online accessible place for people who either have intimacy issues, voluntarily chose to remain virgins, or just haven't found the right person to talk and possibly even hang out and become friends exists.

Although I am not a virgin, and haven't been for a while now, over the past 8 or 9 months I stopped really putting myself out there to guys. I wanted to take time for myself without having to hook up with people and wake up feeling used or lonlier than before. I've always been a naturally monogomous person, which is challenging in a college setting. But, alas, even when I was in a "committed" relationship with a man, that commitment was hardly ever mutual or taken seriously, and it really burned my ability to trust and feel wanted in an intimate way.

Although I might be on the opposite end of you, I can relate to wanting a real intimate bond with someone. For now though, to avoid settling for strippers or other non-interpersonal sexual interactions, maybe try to focus on forming actual emotional bonds with other people. You'd be surprised how fantastic and rewarding relationships like that can be, be them friendships or love affairs.

I appreciate the advice, but I think that's easy for you to say as an attractive 19-year-old woman who's probably had several partners. Making friends isn't the problem, it's making lasting romantic connections that's difficult with either sex that is difficult. I just don't have the confidence to initiate that and I wonder if I ever will. I'm going to stop writing because it just gets me more depressed and angry.

And take the physical aspect slowly, as you don't want to rush someone and you, yourself, should not be rushed. Sex is a big deal, despite what MTV and pop culture want us to believe

Well obviously I have to take it slowly. I think it's the fact that sex is such a big deal that I have so much depression and anxiety about it. It's like you're regarded as a weirdo or a whole different person if you haven't had it, especially by 24.

Thanks,
Clay

[TTOSBT]

Clay,
Are you religious/spiritual at all?
I ask because in a lot of church settings, it is not odd at all for you to be a male 24 year old virgin.
That is not that old.
Your looks are great, I can see that from your picture, so that is no excuse. Even with the extra weight. Which by the way is MUCH easier to deal with as a guy in social settings than a girl. And the scars? I know that they are painful and obvious to you but truly, you are a man with scars. Again, nothing odd or off putting about that.
And as far as sexual prowess goes, I am sure you will be great when the feelings are there with a woman. Trust me. The effort you put out and desire to please is worth SOOOOO much more to a woman and is a MUCH bigger turn on to us than a guy with "skills". I am a 40 year old woman and had lots of sex in my 20's (before marriage). So looking back now...the men I REMEMBER are the men that worked to make sure I was happy and that Clay, takes a heart not experience. Seems to me you have a big heart, you will do just fine.

Okay, so back to how to find a woman you can talk to, be comfortable around and date, etc. Have you thought about church? That is my best advice. I have a girlfriend that is Mormon. She is very attractive, brilliant and fun but she is a 36 year old virgin! And now that she is settled with her career, etc., she wants a family. Now she has to start putting herself out there as datable. So, my point is, 24 is nothing! Stop being so hard on yourself. Start reaching out in healthy areas. Ever thought about taking some ballroom dance classes? It is a great ice breaker. Women LOVE a guy that can dance and you can get comfortable with the touching and intimacy aspect.

Anyway, I wish you luck!

[mattcake79]

Hi Clay

I don't think that being a virgin at 24 should be a cause of embarrassment. That's your choice, and I personally think it's a good one. Like you pointed out, sex isn't the same as intimacy.

This caught my eye:

Originally Posted by ClayTheScribe

My therapist encourages me to distract myself when those thoughts come up, but it only seems to bury it temporarily only to come back stronger later on. It just makes me so depressed and I don't know how to deal with these feelings...

I can't tell if you are describing your therapist's advice offhandedly, or if s/he actually encourages you to just "distract" yourself. You've mentioned many things that probably need a little attention, such as building esteem and managing interpersonal communication; these are skills that can be worked on. Challenging irrational beliefs could also be very helpful. I'm just naming a few items you could address by taking small steps that could make a big difference in your life; they certainly shouldn't be ignored if they're causing distress.

Keep us posted

[Sweets79]

Originally Posted by 123bubblegum123

Clay,

I think what the poster above me said was spot on. In order for me to feel comfortable around other people, I have to have personal things in common with them. I would assume there to be some type of online accessible place for people who either have intimacy issues, voluntarily chose to remain virgins, or just haven't found the right person to talk and possibly even hang out and become friends exists.

Although I am not a virgin, and haven't been for a while now, over the past 8 or 9 months I stopped really putting myself out there to guys. I wanted to take time for myself without having to hook up with people and wake up feeling used or lonlier than before. I've always been a naturally monogomous person, which is challenging in a college setting. But, alas, even when I was in a "committed" relationship with a man, that commitment was hardly ever mutual or taken seriously, and it really burned my ability to trust and feel wanted in an intimate way.

Although I might be on the opposite end of you, I can relate to wanting a real intimate bond with someone. For now though, to avoid settling for strippers or other non-interpersonal sexual interactions, maybe try to focus on forming actual emotional bonds with other people. You'd be surprised how fantastic and rewarding relationships like that can be, be them friendships or love affairs. And take the physical aspect slowly, as you don't want to rush someone and you, yourself, should not be rushed. Sex is a big deal, despite what MTV and pop culture want us to believe

Stay safe,
Rach

The girl is so smart. Love what ya had to say Rach.

[ClayTheScribe]

Originally Posted by TTOSBT

Clay,
Are you religious/spiritual at all?
I ask because in a lot of church settings, it is not odd at all for you to be a male 24 year old virgin.
That is not that old.

Thanks. It just feels like I'm too old in comparison to my friends, but it's pointless to compare myself to my friends. No, I'm not religious, I'm an atheist and I don't attend church. Unlike religious people being a virgin this late was not by choice.

Your looks are great, I can see that from your picture, so that is no excuse. Even with the extra weight. Which by the way is MUCH easier to deal with as a guy in social settings than a girl.

Thanks for the compliment. I think you're being nicer than need be for my sake, but that's alright. I guess I just haven't really ever seen myself that way, even when I was thin. And I agree it is much easier to deal with as a guy being overweight, but I still have to be the pursuer as I've found the majority of young women don't believe in being the pursuer. I've come to terms with that, I just don't really have the confidence to approach women I don't know in a bar or etc. I know I need to get over it and just do it, but I know I'm going to get discouraged after I first get shot down. That's why I figure my success rate will be better when I'm in shape.

And the scars? I know that they are painful and obvious to you but truly, you are a man with scars. Again, nothing odd or off putting about that.

It's the nature of the scars that I'm anxious about. I'm anxious about scaring off someone I get to know and like and it will be all for naught.

And as far as sexual prowess goes, I am sure you will be great when the feelings are there with a woman. Trust me. The effort you put out and desire to please is worth SOOOOO much more to a woman and is a MUCH bigger turn on to us than a guy with "skills". I am a 40 year old woman and had lots of sex in my 20's (before marriage). So looking back now...the men I REMEMBER are the men that worked to make sure I was happy and that Clay, takes a heart not experience. Seems to me you have a big heart, you will do just fine.

That I'm actually not as concerned with if I tell the woman I'm inexperienced and give it my all. I'm just a tad anxious because I know how some women my age can be in that regard in expecting someone with more experience. But not a big concern.

Okay, so back to how to find a woman you can talk to, be comfortable around and date, etc. Have you thought about church? That is my best advice. I have a girlfriend that is Mormon. She is very attractive, brilliant and fun but she is a 36 year old virgin! And now that she is settled with her career, etc., she wants a family. Now she has to start putting herself out there as datable. So, my point is, 24 is nothing! Stop being so hard on yourself. Start reaching out in healthy areas. Ever thought about taking some ballroom dance classes? It is a great ice breaker. Women LOVE a guy that can dance and you can get comfortable with the touching and intimacy aspect.

Meeting someone at church would be great if I went, and I don't just want to start going to someone's church to pick up on women. That's sleazy. I don't really have the money right now to take dance classes but I thank you for the suggestion. I'll keep it in mind for when my finances are in better shape. Actually when I went to my brother's wedding a few years ago, I got drunk and had the confidence to say a speech to the whole reception crowd. Then I went out on the dancefloor by myself and danced like a FOOL haha. Then the niece of my sister-in-law at the time came up to me drunk as hell and started making out with me and kind of stumbling dancing with me. So I know when I'm confident I can attract women, it's just a matter of getting there.

Thanks for the helpful post,

Clay

[ClayTheScribe]

Originally Posted by mattcake79

Hi Clay

I don't think that being a virgin at 24 should be a cause of embarrassment. That's your choice, and I personally think it's a good one. Like you pointed out, sex isn't the same as intimacy.

It's not by choice, it's by default. I just can't attract a person who wants to have sex with me, or if I do I screw it up somehow. I don't think it's a good choice anyway if the sexual frustration is driving you crazy nearly everyday as it is with me. At this point I don't care if it's sex or intimacy, I'd take anything, which makes me desperate and which is a turnoff.

This caught my eye:

I can't tell if you are describing your therapist's advice offhandedly, or if s/he actually encourages you to just "distract" yourself. You've mentioned many things that probably need a little attention, such as building esteem and managing interpersonal communication; these are skills that can be worked on. Challenging irrational beliefs could also be very helpful. I'm just naming a few items you could address by taking small steps that could make a big difference in your life; they certainly shouldn't be ignored if they're causing distress.

Keep us posted

I know, I was just as taken aback. She pretty much asked "Well can't you distract yourself away from those thoughts?" Her heart or brain was in the right place in that she's a cognitive behavioral therapist and CBT is all about re-directing thoughts. It's more primal urges I'm having trouble dealing with more than thoughts. Beyond doing what I love to do and exercise I don't know how to build more self-esteem 'cause this doesn't seem to be enough. What are some of the irrational beliefs you think I need to challenge? I know some of them but I'm not sure what you're referring to specifically. I also agree this is not something I should just ignore or "distract" myself since it's causing distress. In fact it's been one of the major factors why I cut myself in the past, ironically. And I actually have pretty decent interpersonal communication skills once I get comfortable with someone, it's just going up to someone I don't know with confidence. Though somehow I manage it as a journalist. It doesn't make sense.

I know I can get to where I need to be, I'm just losing patience.

I appreciate all the advice, but I feel like Bamboozle is the only one who knows exactly what I'm going through.

Thanks,
Clay

[martha27]

Hi Clay

So sorry that you are so frustrated, if it makes you feel any better I think that we all have areas of our lives that we find difficult, sometimes in personal relationships I find it impossible, almost like people are speaking chinese and I really just don't get it, I cannot drive a car b/c I can't trust myself, it drives me demented (and everyone else). Hang in there with your treatment and if its not working really consider getting someone who will work with you on these issues, b/c they are causing you obvious stress and unhappiness. Take care Clay!

[Overman]

Wow, a 24 yo virgin...thats definitely something to viewed as a unique strength.

@ Clay
It's more primal urges I'm having trouble dealing with more than thoughts.

You may want to consider a therapist with a psychodynamic orientation, as opposed to the CBT school of thought. CBT is very solution-focused, short-term and relatively superficial in comparison.

I know you said there wasn't much luck with the online dating thing, but Ive been using match.com for several years now and have dated 20+ women from there...only one of which was not exactly what she claimed to be. One of them I was in a relationship with for almost five years.

I used to think the same way you did before I tried it...I guess all I'm saying is, there is hope.

As a journalist you possess writing skills that will enable you to 'woo' others that find those skills attractive in a man. After all, communication skills are the foundation of any good relationship!

[unholy_mess]

I'll be honest, though I deal with the whole feelings of lacking intimacy, etc. I'm 1. a female, 2. not a virgin, 3. well, I have had "relationships" (read: slept with) with both men and women, so I guess I have that going for me...haha...anyway, the point is, I'm not really in any position to give you any earthshattering spectacular advice. So I won't. But, I wanted you to know that people here care and want to support you and I hope you get the confidence/strength/whatever it is you need/want. You deserve to be happy, and I hope you get happiness in this area of your life. And, I'm sending lots of good energy and thoughts your way!

[ClayTheScribe]

Originally Posted by Overman

Wow, a 24 yo virgin...thats definitely something to viewed as a unique strength.

How so? Please explain. I see it more as weakness. I have no sexual experience, therefore I'm automatically less desirable to a partner and it kind of says something negative about my personality if I can't manage to even get laid yet, no less hold down a stable relationship, and I'm different from all my friends in a wierd, not-good way. I know my depression plays a part in that, but come on. I look forward to your answer.

@ Clay
It's more primal urges I'm having trouble dealing with more than thoughts.

You may want to consider a therapist with a psychodynamic orientation, as opposed to the CBT school of thought. CBT is very solution-focused, short-term and relatively superficial in comparison.

I'll consider it, but how would I even find a psychodynamic therapist when most of them are CBT? And I don't know how much of this has to do with my unconscious as my conscious.

I know you said there wasn't much luck with the online dating thing, but Ive been using match.com for several years now and have dated 20+ women from there...only one of which was not exactly what she claimed to be. One of them I was in a relationship with for almost five years.

I did Match.com for like 6 months more than 3 years ago, finally managed to score a meet-up and then a date with a woman, but for some reason let it go and didn't call her back. (I can't remember what was going on in my head). I think I could tell she wasn't that into me, which is why I wasn't surprised to find out months later she came out as a lesbian. That had sort of happened to me once before. And I'm not OKCupid.com but most women, or men, don't get back to me, or if they do, don't seem interested in me. Maybe it's my profile. I'm going to try Match.com again when I have a money. I'd do it know if they let you pay monthly but they don't. I don't suspect I'd have much success anyway 'cause of my ****** attitude I can't seem to change. And you've probably had so many dates because you're confident, believe in yourself and are good-looking. Makes a difference.

I used to think the same way you did before I tried it...I guess all I'm saying is, there is hope.

As a journalist you possess writing skills that will enable you to 'woo' others that find those skills attractive in a man. After all, communication skills are the foundation of any good relationship!

Hasn't got me anywhere with hooking up or relationships so far! I'm a better writer than verbal communicator.

Hope is becoming a luxury too painful to afford.

Sorry I'm in such a ****** mood today y'all, I'm just having a lot of stress. I'm just tired of being so ******* pitiful, it makes me hate myself more.

[Overman]

@ Clay
I have no sexual experience, therefore I'm automatically less desirable to a partner...

Not necessarily...


...and it kind of says something negative about my personality if I can't manage to even get laid yet

What 'negative' things does it say...and who is assigning those negative labels to you? Yourself or society? I know its easier said than done, and I hate to sound like a cliche, but don't let social norms dictate your own self-esteem.


I'll consider it, but how would I even find a psychodynamic therapist when most of them are CBT? And I don't know how much of this has to do with my unconscious as my conscious

Just ask the therapist what model they use before scheduling an appt with them. Or simply look for a 'psychoanalyst'...someone with specialized training in psychodynamic theory and methodology. You are right, CBT is the 'gold standard' of treatment, and most therapists are trained to do it. Unfortunately, it has its limits, as all treatment modalities do.

The reason I thought a psychodynamic approach would be helpful is because you mentioned "primal urges"...CBT won't address those, but rather the thoughts that are a result of said urges.


I don't suspect I'd have much success anyway 'cause of my ****** attitude I can't seem to change. And you've probably had so many dates because you're confident, believe in yourself and are good-looking. Makes a difference.

No, I'm just an average-looking guy that happened to write a decent profile. I had zero confidence in the process at first, and only did it because I was full of liquid courage and was sick and tired of being alone.

My first time on there I sent out like 24 emails (not 'winks') to different women I found attractive...some just from their profile descriptions and not their pics. I would make an offhand comment about something that caught my eye in their profile, or a joke about one of their pics. I received about five or six responses, and half of those turned into actual dates.

It sucks because you have to sell yourself in a sense, which includes projecting positivity and confidence (people tend to be attracted to that). I wasn't the greatest person at doing that, because I literally had to fake it at first. However, my confidence grew as I made more connections and realized it was easier than I originally thought. I think you could do a great job as well, given your writing skills.

I'm sorry you're in such a crap mood. It's difficult to break the cycle sometimes. Take care man.

[namommy]

Clay,
I a not just saying this for your benefit, but you REALLY are a good looking guy. And I think in todays society everyone is aware that Americans in general are overweight. I myself am 85 pounds overweight. I am married of course, but I also have trouble with intimacy, not for the same reasons as you, but the exact opposite.

for years in my addiction, I was a homeless, prostitute. I've literally had sex with hundreds of men, maybe more. That is where my PTSD comes in.

Have you ever heard of a group called "sex and love addicts anonymous". They are a 12 step program for people who have all types of sexual issues, from inability to experience intimacy, to being addicted to sex, to being afraid of sex. You might also consider seeing a sex therapist, one that deals with different areas of sexual problems. They could also help you with your self esteem issues.

Just out of curiosity, if you've never had sex, how do you know you are bisexual? (you can answer that in a PM if you wish)

I know many heterosexuals who are attracted to members of the same sex, but would not consider having sex with them. or if they have tried having sex with the same gender, they didn't feel comfortable. Some people just appreciate the beauty of the human body in general.

I hope with alll the good input you've recieved in this thread, that you will take some of the suggestions and you will get help.

Laurie.

[ClayTheScribe]

Originally Posted by namommy

Clay,
I a not just saying this for your benefit, but you REALLY are a good looking guy. And I think in todays society everyone is aware that Americans in general are overweight. I myself am 85 pounds overweight. I am married of course, but I also have trouble with intimacy, not for the same reasons as you, but the exact opposite.

for years in my addiction, I was a homeless, prostitute. I've literally had sex with hundreds of men, maybe more. That is where my PTSD comes in.

Well thanks for the compliment, it's hard to actually believe it. I think my standards are too high and I'm just rejecting the people I'm not attracted to. (Is that normal?)

Have you ever heard of a group called "sex and love addicts anonymous". They are a 12 step program for people who have all types of sexual issues, from inability to experience intimacy, to being addicted to sex, to being afraid of sex. You might also consider seeing a sex therapist, one that deals with different areas of sexual problems. They could also help you with your self esteem issues.

I had never thought about that because I thought it was just for people addicted to sex. I'm an atheist so I'm really not into 12 step, I'm not afraid of sex, I don't have impotence or intimacy issues as far as I know and I don't have any unhealthy sexual thoughts or urges. I just don't have the confidence or self-esteem to attract people I'm attracted to. I honestly don't see the point of going to a sex therapist if I'm not even able to get sex. If my regular therapist can't help me with self-esteem, what can a sex therapist do differently? See myself in a sexual manner? I'm sorry but with my body I don't see that happening until I slim down.

Just out of curiosity, if you've never had sex, how do you know you are bisexual? (you can answer that in a PM if you wish)

I gotta tell you this question irritates and annoys me as it's the second time it's been asked. Did you have to have sex to know you were heterosexual? I'm sorry if that was the case as you must have been majorly confused. I've kissed both men and women and liked both. I have sexual urges toward both men and women, I want to have sex with both men and women. I want intimate relationships with both men and women. I've had sexual fantasies about both males and females since I was 9. Have been confused early on and was in denial about feelings toward men, but not anymore. I know who I am. Either you're just terribly naive about sexual orientation and GLBT people or you have a problem with me being bisexual, because your question is silly. If someone asks this again, I am not going to respond. Would you ask the obviously gay 17-year-old boy who's scared as **** in the closet: Well how do you know if you've never been with a man. No. Case closed.

I know many heterosexuals who are attracted to members of the same sex, but would not consider having sex with them. or if they have tried having sex with the same gender, they didn't feel comfortable. Some people just appreciate the beauty of the human body in general.

It started out just as an appreciation but became obvious was more than that. I know I would be comfortable having sex with a man and desire it. I have no confusion over that. I don't see what you're driving at with this line of questioning. How does it relate to my problem?

I hope with alll the good input you've recieved in this thread, that you will take some of the suggestions and you will get help.

Laurie.

I certainly will. I'm going to start up a Match.com subscription and try my luck there. I'm not expecting anything really, so maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

[ClayTheScribe]

Originally Posted by Overman

@ Clay
I have no sexual experience, therefore I'm automatically less desirable to a partner...

Not necessarily...


...and it kind of says something negative about my personality if I can't manage to even get laid yet

What 'negative' things does it say...and who is assigning those negative labels to you? Yourself or society? I know its easier said than done, and I hate to sound like a cliche, but don't let social norms dictate your own self-esteem.


I'll consider it, but how would I even find a psychodynamic therapist when most of them are CBT? And I don't know how much of this has to do with my unconscious as my conscious

Just ask the therapist what model they use before scheduling an appt with them. Or simply look for a 'psychoanalyst'...someone with specialized training in psychodynamic theory and methodology. You are right, CBT is the 'gold standard' of treatment, and most therapists are trained to do it. Unfortunately, it has its limits, as all treatment modalities do.

The reason I thought a psychodynamic approach would be helpful is because you mentioned "primal urges"...CBT won't address those, but rather the thoughts that are a result of said urges.


I don't suspect I'd have much success anyway 'cause of my ****** attitude I can't seem to change. And you've probably had so many dates because you're confident, believe in yourself and are good-looking. Makes a difference.

No, I'm just an average-looking guy that happened to write a decent profile. I had zero confidence in the process at first, and only did it because I was full of liquid courage and was sick and tired of being alone.

My first time on there I sent out like 24 emails (not 'winks') to different women I found attractive...some just from their profile descriptions and not their pics. I would make an offhand comment about something that caught my eye in their profile, or a joke about one of their pics. I received about five or six responses, and half of those turned into actual dates.

It sucks because you have to sell yourself in a sense, which includes projecting positivity and confidence (people tend to be attracted to that). I wasn't the greatest person at doing that, because I literally had to fake it at first. However, my confidence grew as I made more connections and realized it was easier than I originally thought. I think you could do a great job as well, given your writing skills.

I'm sorry you're in such a crap mood. It's difficult to break the cycle sometimes. Take care man.

Thanks, I'm gonna try Match.com for a few months and see how it goes. I'm starting to get better at faking it till I make it. I just hope she/he doesn't find out I'm a fraud when we meet in person. I'm in a better mood today and I don't have the same hangups about being a virgin. On the plus side, I'm STD free and never knocked anyone up!

[namommy]

[QUOTE=ClayTheScribe;2282953]


I gotta tell you this question irritates and annoys me as it's the second time it's been asked. Did you have to have sex to know you were heterosexual? I'm sorry if that was the case as you must have been majorly confused. I've kissed both men and women and liked both. I have sexual urges toward both men and women, I want to have sex with both men and women. I want intimate relationships with both men and women. I've had sexual fantasies about both males and females since I was 9. Have been confused early on and was in denial about feelings toward men, but not anymore. I know who I am. Either you're just terribly naive about sexual orientation and GLBT people or you have a problem with me being bisexual, because your question is silly. If someone asks this again, I am not going to respond. Would you ask the obviously gay 17-year-old boy who's scared as **** in the closet: Well how do you know if you've never been with a man. No. Case closed.




/QUOTE]

These questions weren't meant to irritate or annoy you, and no I am not naive about GLBT because I myself am bisexual, but I am married and also believe in monogamy. For me, I wasn't sure if I was bi or just appreciating the beauty of the human body until I actually had sex with a female. The line of questioning was posed just to help you think of some questions and dig deeper into yourself to see if there is more than just the weight issue bothering you. Not meant to offend.

And, you don't have to believe in God to attend 12 step meetings. I know many athiests who attend NA and AA. Just like overeaters anonymous also addresses anorexia and bulemia, SLAA address a full spectrum of sexual issues. That is why I suggested them.

WE are all here to give suggestions and try to help one another, not make each other angry or annoyed. Sometimes someone may raise a question that you may not agree with, or one that hits a bad nerve, but it is no reason to get angry at the person.

Just trying to help you with an issue that is obviously bothering you and important to you or you wouldn't have posted for replies. Try to keep an open mind.

Laurie

[ClayTheScribe]

[QUOTE=namommy;2283910]

Originally Posted by ClayTheScribe

I gotta tell you this question irritates and annoys me as it's the second time it's been asked. Did you have to have sex to know you were heterosexual? I'm sorry if that was the case as you must have been majorly confused. I've kissed both men and women and liked both. I have sexual urges toward both men and women, I want to have sex with both men and women. I want intimate relationships with both men and women. I've had sexual fantasies about both males and females since I was 9. Have been confused early on and was in denial about feelings toward men, but not anymore. I know who I am. Either you're just terribly naive about sexual orientation and GLBT people or you have a problem with me being bisexual, because your question is silly. If someone asks this again, I am not going to respond. Would you ask the obviously gay 17-year-old boy who's scared as **** in the closet: Well how do you know if you've never been with a man. No. Case closed.




/QUOTE]

These questions weren't meant to irritate or annoy you, and no I am not naive about GLBT because I myself am bisexual, but I am married and also believe in monogamy. For me, I wasn't sure if I was bi or just appreciating the beauty of the human body until I actually had sex with a female. The line of questioning was posed just to help you think of some questions and dig deeper into yourself to see if there is more than just the weight issue bothering you. Not meant to offend.

And, you don't have to believe in God to attend 12 step meetings. I know many athiests who attend NA and AA. Just like overeaters anonymous also addresses anorexia and bulemia, SLAA address a full spectrum of sexual issues. That is why I suggested them.

WE are all here to give suggestions and try to help one another, not make each other angry or annoyed. Sometimes someone may raise a question that you may not agree with, or one that hits a bad nerve, but it is no reason to get angry at the person.

Just trying to help you with an issue that is obviously bothering you and important to you or you wouldn't have posted for replies. Try to keep an open mind.

Laurie

I'm really sorry I lashed out at you but it really did strike a nerve because it was the second time I answered it. Any supposed confusion about my sexuality doesn't exist, and even when it did, it's not what kept me from having sex, relationships or intimacy. I'm happy with my sexuality and quite firm in it. I'll let you know if I've changed my mind the first time I have sex with a man.

I've heard this before, that AA can work for atheists, but I'm highly skeptical. I would be more than willing to hear how an atheist works out the following steps, again someone who doesn't believe in Him:

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His Will for us and the power to carry that out.

I've been told atheists can substitute "God" for something like "higher self." But, for example, with 5, why do I need to admit my wrongs to my higher self when my higher self knows what I've done better than me--same thing with God for that matter. It's like asking forgiveness from a God who's already forgiven you before you did your wrong. With 6, that's asking myself to remove my own defects? Asking yourself to remove your defects is not giving yourself up to a higher power. And 11, that's so specific to the Christian God, I'd love to hear somebody spin that one. Sorry to be so cynical, but I really don't see AA working for me, but I'm open to advice.

And I'm skeptical if I get into AA, they're gonna try to turn me into a Christian, as others have told me in their experiences, and I'm not having that. I'm also kind of weary of support groups because my problems are so much less than others. Case in point, I went to a dual diagnosis meeting and when I was talking about how I was stressed out about graduating college, one of the people there started laughing, which sent me into a tailspin and almost made me drink. And other people in the group seemed hostile toward me as most of these people came from recovery homes and had much worse drinking and mental disorders than me. I know my problems may seem trivial to people who are worse off, but they still matter to me.

Later,
Clay

[Bamboozle]

I don't think it's okay to ask someone who is bi or gay, "are you really sure that's what you want? How could you know if you haven't had sex with *insert gender/sex here*?"

I find those kinds of statements to be insulting. Straight people are never asked if they are sure they are straight if they've never slept with anyone before.

When we inexperienced folk say we know exactly what we want and we are not questioning our desires, please listen.

I've not ever had sex...but I do know that women make me incredibly horny. I think about them all the time...they give me butterflies...and I take care of business when the urges are overwhelming, if you know what I mean.

I've never had an interest in men. I know I don't need to try men out to know that all I want to do is be with women.

My problem does not lie in the “am I or am I not?” I know who and what I am and what I want and need. My problem lies with my self-esteem and confidence…and I’m working on that with my therapist.

[mikefreak]

123 bubblegum defintely has it together when she said you have to form emotional bonds with people- that's a BIG problem area for me. It's the same story you have heard a jillion times before-raised in an alchololic household, no father figure, etc.. I learned at a early age that I was on my own in so many ways & I shut my emotions down. don't get me wrong, I am NOT a hater of mankind, I'm just......warped.
Then there was the molestations- but let's not EVEN go there. Somehow I had sex in my younger days-how I'm not a virgin is something I still can't believe- but sex has aways been a scary thing to me.
Your'e NOT alone, Clay. So much of your story paralells mine...........

[ClayTheScribe]

Originally Posted by mikefreak

123 bubblegum defintely has it together when she said you have to form emotional bonds with people- that's a BIG problem area for me. It's the same story you have heard a jillion times before-raised in an alchololic household, no father figure, etc.. I learned at a early age that I was on my own in so many ways & I shut my emotions down. don't get me wrong, I am NOT a hater of mankind, I'm just......warped.
Then there was the molestations- but let's not EVEN go there. Somehow I had sex in my younger days-how I'm not a virgin is something I still can't believe- but sex has aways been a scary thing to me.
Your'e NOT alone, Clay. So much of your story paralells mine...........

Thanks Mike, but even if you were a virgin at least you'd have more of an excuse than me considering the trauma you've been through. I just have depression. I just feel I really should've got my act together by now and been in an intimate, but I spent so many years making my depression worse by drinking and smoking pot. Stupid. Now I don't even know if sex is a scary thing to me--to some degree I have fears and inadequacy issues--but maybe I'm just more afraid of what it will mean for somebody to be sexually attracted to me. It happened a few years ago and I couldn't handle it at the time 'cause I was so depressed and now I am attracted to that person. Wonderful irony. I dunno I'm gonna just focus on my recovery and gaining confidence and self-esteem from within and take care of my sexual frustrations on my own.

[mikefreak]

Good plan! Booze & pot were my DOC too-really regret wasting all of that time when I was your age ( don't you just HATE hearing that?). It'll happen Clay.................................