Do You Like Me? (This is kind of long)

[suki44883]

I received a text message today from my daughter asking this question. She and I had argued earlier on the phone and the conversation ended when I told her I couldn’t keep on doing this. As I hung up, I could hear her crying and begging me not to hang up the phone. It hurt so bad. It still hurts. I love her so much, but like I told her, I just can’t keep doing this.

Some of you are aware of our issues. My daughter will be 20 years old in September. She’s a good girl. She has such a good heart. She never drinks or does drugs or smokes cigarettes. But, she has some serious mental issues. At different times, she has been diagnosed with the following: borderline personality disorder, major depressive disorder with psychosis, bi-polar, and PTSD. She has severe anxiety and paranoia. She is now living with her father about 2 hours away because after her last suicide attempt (bringing the total number of attempts to 5), I told her she couldn’t live with me anymore. I had told her that after her 4th attempt, but I fell for the BS and gave her one more chance. As I feared, there was another attempt.

She absolutely hates living with her father, and I can’t blame her. He is an insufferable control freak and egomaniac. I should know, I lived with him. However, as I told her, her options at this time are limited. I am adamant that she cannot live with me and other than her dad, no one else stepped up to the plate and offered her a place to stay. Therefore, I’ve told her that she’s just going to have to do her best to get along with him and try to stay out of his way as best she can.

She doesn’t drive and has never worked. She is currently on SSI and Medicaid. While living with me, she was seeing a therapist once a week and a MHMR psychiatrist once a month for med management. Since she has been staying with her dad (about 6 weeks now), she has stopped taking all her meds (without medical advisement) and no longer goes to therapy. The therapy is a real sticky point with me. I have told her that she needs therapy to work through her issues but she adamantly refuses. She says all she needs is a driver’s license and a job and things will be fine. Whatever.

I am trying to take care of me. Since she has been gone, a lot of feelings and thoughts are coming to the surface. For so many years, I walked on eggshells around her because of her sudden mood swings. I am just now getting to a place where I am starting to feel comfortable in my own home. For the first few weeks after she left, I felt kind of shell-shocked. Just going through the motions after everything came to a head. I just lapped up the peace around here. No one but me and the cats. It was wonderful. Now though, I am starting to feel the emotions coming to the surface. I burst into tears just all of a sudden. I get so freaking angry just all of a sudden. I guess this is all normal, whatever normal is. Anyway, I have an appointment with a therapist on Tuesday. I need someone to talk to, too.

Do you like me? I’m not sure exactly how to respond to that. I know I love her, and I think I like her too. I mean, as a person, she is very compassionate and so smart and I am so proud of her in so many ways. It sounds too cliché to say, I love you but I don’t always like you. I do like her. She just needs help so that she can grow into a person who enjoys life and is happy. I want that so much for her and it just hurts so much to know that right now, we are pretty much toxic to each other. Too much co-dependence. I just can’t do it anymore.

[evmdimples]

You do well to take care of yourself. Here's a support website for dealing with borderlines. It's a difficult disorder to deal with, but it's possible. CoDA and the BPD website have been an invaluable resource for me.

Has she undergone therapy for her BPD? Dialectic behavioral therapy (DBT) gives people a good chance of recovering from the disorder. I wish both you and your daughter positive outcome through this difficult time.
((hugs))

Borderline Personality Disorder - Support group for families and relationship partners

[suki44883]

Thanks, evm. She has stopped all therapy. While she was with me, she was going once a week to a therapist who understood borderline. She wouldn't do the work. She basically just showed up.

Thanks for the links. I'll look them over, however, I've pretty much read everything I could get my hands on regarding BPD, so I'm fairly familiar with it.

[Dee74]

Nothing to add really, but (((Suki)))
D

[Bamboozle]

Suki, good to hear that you are taking care of yourself.

Sorry to hear about your daughter...wow, she has a lot on her plate. I'm curious...were the meds working for her at all? Did she say why she stopped everything?

I want to stop taking my meds and drop therapy all the time...but I don't do it because I know I don't have any other options. I have the "f-k it's" all the time...and it's really hard to fight that.

I can't imagine how hard it is to deal with a situation like this...I hope she comes around.

[suki44883]

Hi, Bam!

I honestly don't know if the meds were "working" for her. She's been on so many over the past year. They've switched them around because some had severe side effects for her and some just didn't work, etc. She says that the Haldol was working for the audible hallucinations but not so much the visual ones (mostly shadows). Haldol had side effects, so she was on Cogentin to combat those. The mood stabilizer and anti-depressants seems to me to be working but she said they weren't. None of the things they gave her for anxiety really worked. So, I guess I don't really know the answer to your question. In a way, I thought maybe she was on too much medication, so I'm not really sorry that she's stopped taking them, it's just the way she's doing it. I think it's dangerous to just stop cold turkey without medical supervision. She was on some pretty powerful stuff.

I'm not sure the reason why she just stopped. I think part of it is that she didn't like having to take it but I insisted. Her dad doesn't believe in meds for stuff like that, nor does he believe in therapy, so that gave her the excuse to stop all of it.

[suki44883]

What I do know is that if she truly is borderline personality disordered, there is no pill for that. It must be worked out through therapy. Therapy, therapy, therapy! From what I've read it takes years and there is a real possibility of burnout on both the part of the patient and the therapist.

That's not to say that she wouldn't benefit from an anti-depressant at some point, but the fact remains that her problems aren't going to just go away when she gets a driver's license and a job.

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by suki44883

That's not to say that she wouldn't benefit from an anti-depressant at some point, but the fact remains that her problems aren't going to just go away when she gets a driver's license and a job.

Maybe she just wants to feel stable and independent? What she wants are very basic things that people who don't have a debilitating mental illness all too often take for granted. IDK (think out here)...being self-sufficient is so very important. Does she have anything that she can feel responsible for (other than her mental illnesses)? I think it's important to find something to do, a project of sorts...anything positive. She needs some kind of distraction…and to be able to feel like she has some amount of control in her life over something healthy.

[suki44883]

Originally Posted by Bamboozle

Maybe she just wants to feel stable and independent? What she wants are very basic things that people who don't have a debilitating mental illness all too often take for granted. IDK (think out here)...being self-sufficient is so very important. Does she have anything that she can feel responsible for (other than her mental illnesses)? I think it's important to find something to do, a project of sorts...anything positive. She needs some kind of distraction…and to be able to feel like she has some amount of control in her life over something healthy.

I agree. While she was living here, I tried and tried to get her to get involved in something...anything. Just laying around the house day after day with no direction was only making her depression worse. She insisted she wasn't depressed. She mentioned volunteering at the animal shelter in our small town. I thought that was a wonderful idea since she loves animals so much. I suggested she check into it. No...she wanted ME to do it. She has a phobia about talking on the phone. Well, I had spent so many years doing things for her that she was perfectly able to do for herself that I just said No! So, that was the end of that.

I guess I just don't understand how she thinks she is going to be able to handle a job where she is constantly exposed to other people when she has so much anxiety and phobias about even talking on the telephone. Where she lives it is a very small town and the biggest thing they have is a Walmart. Well, that's where she is planning to work. Walmart!! A huge store full of people and she will be dealing with the public! She HATES being around people. It just sounds like deluded thinking to me.

[suki44883]

Okay, Suki...calm down. Breathe....

LOL!

[RockyGirl]

Hi Suki!

It is good that you are looking after yourself...

I can deeply sympathise with your daughter and I'm sure my mum and dad could deeply sympathise with you.

I often feel extremely guilty for what I put them through and it hurts me so much because they gave me such a wonderful childhood full of love and security!

Just so you know your daughter probably really doesn't mean to hurt you...and she most probably understands that you have taken way more than your fair share of her outbursts...

Just stay close with her...I hope she gets better soon and remember to keep looking after yourself!

[suki44883]

Thanks, rockygirl. The problem is...staying close with her is not helping me. It keeps me torn up and, at this point, I really feel I need to be taking care of myself and let her figure out her own plan. I don't really want to go the "no contact" route, but I'm not sure it's healthy right now for either us to have too much contact.

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by suki44883

I agree. While she was living here, I tried and tried to get her to get involved in something...anything. Just laying around the house day after day with no direction was only making her depression worse. She insisted she wasn't depressed. She mentioned volunteering at the animal shelter in our small town. I thought that was a wonderful idea since she loves animals so much. I suggested she check into it. No...she wanted ME to do it. She has a phobia about talking on the phone. Well, I had spent so many years doing things for her that she was perfectly able to do for herself that I just said No! So, that was the end of that.

That certainly makes it tough.

When I need to make a phone call and I'm really apprehensive, I will sit down and write out every single question I want to ask and I will even read the questions from the paper when I am talking to someone. I don't always have to do this, but sometimes I do and it's a real help.

If she’s not sure of the kinds of questions to ask, she can bounce some ideas off of you. She can sit down and ask you questions about what she should ask and she can write the questions down. After she does this and knows exactly what to say, she can make the phone call. She’ll probably still feel anxious, but this will help her to stay focused.

It took me a while before I could order pizza over the phone. Over time it has become a little better on its own. With effort on her part, she may not be able to change how she feels, but she can gain the confidence to get past the feelings and not let those feelings stop her from doing what she wants to do.

I know, I'm one to talk. I should take my own advice. When it comes to social situations I freeze up. Bad social anxiety. I'm working on it.

[RockyGirl]

That's a fair point...maybe it would help you both if you just had a bit of space...but definitely don't lose all contact...and maybe in the future when things are settled and she is more stable then you can become closer again...

[suki44883]

Originally Posted by Bamboozle

That certainly makes it tough.

When I need to make a phone call and I'm really apprehensive, I will sit down and write out every single question I want to ask and I will even read the questions from the paper when I am talking to someone. I don't always have to do this, but sometimes I do and it's a real help.

If she’s not sure of the kinds of questions to ask, she can bounce some ideas off of you. She can sit down and ask you questions about what she should ask and she can write the questions down. After she does this and knows exactly what to say, she can make the phone call. She’ll probably still feel anxious, but this will help her to stay focused.

It took me a while before I could order pizza over the phone. Over time it has become a little better on its own. With effort on her part, she may not be able to change how she feels, but she can gain the confidence to get past the feelings and not let those feelings stop her from doing what she wants to do.

I know, I'm one to talk. I should take my own advice. When it comes to social situations I freeze up. Bad social anxiety. I'm working on it.

Bam, we've done this. I have found papers in her room where she has written down things to say and ask on the occasions she has absolutely HAD to use the phone. Of course, those were for things like doctor visits and things that I could not do for her. The volunteer thing wasn't a "must do" so she just refused to make the call. She's very head-strong, that daughter of mine. I just don't know where she gets it!

[suki44883]

Originally Posted by RockyGirl

That's a fair point...maybe it would help you both if you just had a bit of space...but definitely don't lose all contact...and maybe in the future when things are settled and she is more stable then you can become closer again...

Thanks, rockygirl. I think that's how I'm going to play it for right now. The problem is (well, I guess it's only a problem if I let it be), her feeling like I am abandoning her and don't love her anymore. She's very sensitive and has extreme low self-esteem. Another thing that only therapy can help her with.

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by suki44883

Bam, we've done this. I have found papers in her room where she has written down things to say and ask on the occasions she has absolutely HAD to use the phone. Of course, those were for things like doctor visits and things that I could not do for her. The volunteer thing wasn't a "must do" so she just refused to make the call. She's very head-strong, that daughter of mine. I just don't know where she gets it!

Oh, well. I'm sorry, suki. I wish I had something else to suggest. Looks like you've tried it all. Hang in there, okay?

[suki44883]

Thanks, Bam. I very much appreciate your posts. (((HUGS)))

[RockyGirl]

Originally Posted by suki44883

Thanks, rockygirl. I think that's how I'm going to play it for right now. The problem is (well, I guess it's only a problem if I let it be), her feeling like I am abandoning her and don't love her anymore. She's very sensitive and has extreme low self-esteem. Another thing that only therapy can help her with.

I can understand that completely...when you do have contact with her you just have to make doubly sure that she knows how much you love and care about her and that there is a future where u can be together and close again.
you are right...only therapy can help with these issues...but as a lot of people say to me on here...there is a light at the end of the tunnel xx

[suki44883]

Thanks, rockygirl. Now...go take your meds!!!

[RockyGirl]

Originally Posted by suki44883

Thanks, rockygirl. Now...go take your meds!!!

lol okay...I will take them with juice too...not alcohol like I have done before

[unholy_mess]

Hi Suki...I was reading this and just HAD to respond because I, too, have a phone phobia! I always thought I was just kind of a weirdo, but I'm learning recently that I know a few people who have had this problem. It frustrates my mother to NO end.
In fact, I have to set up an appointment with a new therapist and am so petrified to make the call, that my friend is doing it for me. Normally, she wouldn't but that's the thing that's standing between me and therapy right now and she realizes the importance and is just being kind enough to do it.
I'm still really freaky about it, so I don't know how much help I can be, but something I've TRIED to do is sit down and list all my fears about making the call...what am I so afraid of on the other end? And I found it was things like...sounding stupid, asking the wrong questions...depending on the call the anxieties were different. For me, I think, it comes down to a control issue. I don't know who's going to answer, how I'm going to have to address them, etc etc. Once I've called someone (say a new friend, or most recently, my new vet's office) a few times, I become increasingly more comfortable with calling them myself.
I've had friends who would call a new place for me first and put them on speaker phone so I could hear what, exactly, was going to happen when I called and that helped me out some.
Maybe it would help your daughter to address her fears about making a call so she can at least figure out what she's afraid of. But I can definitely relate. If it's not a "must" situation, I just won't do it if my mom won't do it for me. Of course, now I get to play the "I live 700 miles away and want to get my hair cut when I come home will you call for me since I live in another time zone" card and that works sometimes

[suki44883]

LOL! Thanks unholy mess. I love your username!

My daughter has mentioned some of those same fears you mentioned. I'm sure it must be horrible to have that kind of fear. I must admit I don't understand it, but I do know it's very real to her. I like the idea about the speakerphone. Of course, she's no longer living with me, but it might help her in the future. Thanks so much for the suggestion! (((HUGS)))

[unholy_mess]

The Philadelphia Story is one of my favorite movies and when she calls herself an unholy mess of a girl, I'm just like...yep!! That's me! A mess and rather unholy! haha

I just had to say that it made me smile that you said that though you don't necessarily understand the fear itself, you understand it's real to her. It took my mother forEVER to recognize that. And that just added to the stress of the situation. I'm like, believe me, I feel like enough of a freak as it is...it's an impairment, it makes it hard to do things and live my life independently and I certainly don't like it and she seemed to have the idea that I was just lazy or being a pain in the ass. She finally realized once she saw me almost have a panic attack before trying to make a call that it was a very real fear.
It helps when people recognize that our problems and phobias and limitations, while seemingly a little nutty, are real to us though they make no sense to anyone else. That's really cool of you to understand that.

[suki44883]

How cool! The Philadelphia Story is one of my all time favorite movies, too!

Regarding the phobia...I don't know that I would really be able to understand it if I didn't have my own phobia. There is a place called the Omni Theater here in Fort Worth. It's such a cool place. Everything is like you are actually there. It's the way they have it set up...I can't explain it but you probably know of a place somewhat like that. Anyway, they were having a showing one time that she and I both thought sounded interesting, so we went and paid the $8.00 apiece to get in. As we were entering the theater, I got this absolutely feeling of horror!! I tried to brush it away but as we were climbing the stairs to our seats, it just kept getting worse. I couldn't even turn around to sit down in my seat without holding on to each seat arm and closing my eyes and trying to sit down. It was horrible. I just closed my eyes and kept repeating...I have to get out of here, I have to get out of here. Tears were streaming down my face and I had to have my daughter take my purse so I could use both hands to grope my way to the stairs and then crawled on my hands and knees out of that place. I've never felt anything like that in my life and it just absolutely horrified me.

Well, I said all that to say this...she explained to me that her feeling of using the phone was very similar to what I experience when we went to the Omni. It was then I realized that, oh yes, it is very real.