Help! Needing to understand bipolar

[1dayatatime]

This is terribly long...

Hello everyone . I used to come to these boards a few years ago in helping me to understand and cope with my Addict Husbund. Through these boards I found I too was sick and codependant myself. Since then I found my own recovery and found myself and learned tolerance, compassion, and realize my husbund was very sick. That he was sick and needed help to get well not bad needing to be good. Long story short, after 20 years of trying everything that didn't work, I found the tools I needed to understand and cope with my life. I realized my own defects of character and changed them or atleast working on them, through my own recovery my husbund has found or is working on sobriety. He struggles every day but I no longer try to sabotage him and allow him the space he needs to get better, as well as I also do not allow his days become mine and I tend to my own buisness and get through my days.

I am back but not because of my husband. But because my sister has been diagnosed as bipolar. Just being around her triggers my codependancy and causes me to end up in bad shape mentally trying to understand her.

She is a very intelligant person, beautiful, witty, and years ago was always the fun one in the family. She has a career that she spent many years in college to become. But recently has been unable to work because of her condition after a suicide attempt that left her almost dead and this is when they diagnosed her bipolar. She had been treated for about 4 years for depression and they realized this only actually made her worse.

The whole family always knew she was different, and knew something was wrong, but she lived away and we only seen her a couple times a year. But we got the dreaded phone calls from time to time and she usually was drinking or drunk during these calls. So we all assumed she was an alcoholic and blamed the ranting and poor pitiful me phone calls on her drinking.

The phone calls came late at night, usually 3 in the morning, with her saying how her life sucked, how her husbund was an Ahole, and how someone at work was out to get her and ruin her reputation, or her friends were all conspiring against her and were talking about her behind her back. For fear she would kill herself, many times we either made the trip to get to her to let her know we cared or sat on the phone for hours listening and letting her know we cared. Then there were atleast 6 or 7 calls of telling how she already took a bunch of pills and she was just calling giving her words of her last will and testament. beings she lived too far away to get to her, a 911 call was made and ambulance sent to her house. 2 of those times she actually did take the pills and her life was saved, the other times she just was saying this in a drunken state and I am unsure of why she made such calls except at the time because she was drunk and on a self pity trip. BUT everytime the 911 calls were made the next day she called and went bezerk saying how she could lose her liscence and lose her job. How awful a sister i was that i called 911 to save her life because of her career choice could be in jeapordy. I soon realized something was very wrong beyond her drinking.

She recently has moved back to where the fam lives. And if I thought there was something terribly wrong long distance, I found I almost am unable to tolerate her close by. Before moving back, she was diagnosed bipolar not depressed, and no longer works as she is unable to do her job without having what I call episodes.

When she first moved back, I ran to every call as she was close to be able to. No matter the time of night, no matter what I had to do the next day. I was putting everything on hold, because I love her and want her to know it. This is where my codependancy gets me in trouble and causes me to get the water faucet effect in my brain. You know the unable to stop thinking of ways to help. Am I being a good enough sister, am I saying the right things to help get her through and want to live. And because if you **** her off and don't say the right things, she becomes vengefull and starts chaos in the fam telling lies or half truths about you to start **** to try and have everyone mad at you.

I am here because I wanted to ask questions to anyone willing to answer that has bipolar. And also to try and understand her before i become to hate her and get to the point I don't care if she kills herself which I am almost there.

1. when she is being suspicious and mean about something she has conjoured up in her head, do I allow her to keep ranting? I usually these days try to say things in a way to help her understand it isn't as she thinks. This just leaves her pissed at me saying I don't understand. And she says things like, "It doesn't matter, I am no count, no one cares" then she becomes quiet and sorta sarcastic towards anything I say. She usually either crys and leaves or starts saying mean bitter things about me or my past. My past meaning years ago when I would rant and go on and on about my AH.

2. She knows she is sick and uses the "Bipolar" label to excuse her bad behaviour. She says really mean and hurtfull things, things that just don't need to be said, causing chaos in the fam. The next day she is over it, and says to everyone she is bipolar and she can't help it. Do we jump back and say what we feel? Mostly we let her rant and try to calm her down, overlook it and move on. But it is or seems to be getting worse with her outrages. And who ever is in her path during what we think is an episode gets her wrath. She says she can't help it, she blurts out or hollars, "IM BIPOLAR G**D D** IT!", is this true?

3. when she calls after being up for 2-3 days and no sleep and realize she is drinking not taking her meds, do we stand firm in not allowing her to wollar in self pity? When is it OK to be a sister and listen as everyone needs someone they can rant and rave to? I have been just asking her, "are you drinking" she sometimes admits it and I say, "do you think thats wise, and you know this isn't helping". She will reply usually she is sorry to bother me and hang up. I used to call her back and then proceed to listen to the same story of how rotten her life is etc. But I find it puts me in a state of mind for days to recover.

3. She is at odds with someone always. Usually rationall thinking can help one realize it isn't as it seems. She can not process this rationally. She goes bezerk and if it aint me today it is someone tomorrow. There is always someone close to her causing her to be in a mood. Something someone said. No matter how small it is, she blows it out of proportion. It becomes as if she is obsessed, stuck on stupid. You can't get her to talk about nothing else. No matter how many attempts to change the subject she goes right back to it, saying the same thing over and over, repeating it everytime as if it is the first time she said it. Outside of listening to it over and over, what can I say to help calm her down?


Does biploar make you a mean and vengefull person or is this just her character? My son in law has been diagnosed bipolar and he is just as sweet as can be. He withdraws and gets quiet at times. Has his days he doesn't want to have any contact with anyone or want to leave the house. He has episodes where he can't sleep and stays up for days. Goes thru a happy euphoric and unable to stop talking times. But I have never seen him have outbursts of hatred for no reason. Him and my daughter live with me so i see his moods and see the symptoms but haven't noticed the poor pitiful me episodes my sister displays. He actually worries and doesn't want to bother anyone with his moods.

Also my sister puts on real thick guilt on the fam. She brings up every episode she needed help and how this one or that one didn't care and didn't come to her rescue. Or if we did, we didn't do it properly. Is this typical bipolar behaviour?

I am trying not to hate her and do not want to shut her out of my life simply because i don't understand. But at the same time I can't keep allowing her to say and do the hurtful and mean things she does. It is getting harder and harder to overlook her outburst and to listen to her poor pitiful me phone calls that drag on for hours. I am afraid to not listen because if she kills herself i would feel responsible, simply because i chose to not listen and let her go on and on. And during some of these calls she will bring up something I said or did that made her miserable, even if that was 10 years ago.

I also want to say outside of her bad days, she is quite wonderful. She can be a great pleasure to be around. She is very smart and has taught me many things. I have read everything online I can find about bipolar and nothing explains how to deal with someone with bipolar when she is being rude, vengeful, way of thinking.

Any insight of someone dealing with bipolar would be more than appreciated. I want her in my life and i love her dearly. But I have to ask is bipolar mean she will always be selfish and self centered? Every event becomes a "Not about her day and she is gonna see to it, it is". Is this fair to keep allowing her to be the center of attention? Can she help it at all? Can she refrain from saying rude and obnoxious things?

There are 5 girls and 1 outside of myself has become to hate her. Almost can't even tolerate her for more than a small amount of time. Looks at her with eyes of total direspect and shows facial expressions everything my sister says like she wants to puke. I do not want to go there and do not want to get this way with my sister. I know she is sick but I am reaching out to understand.

Thank you for listening to such a loooong and drawn out post. And I hope this is the right place to post this, if not direct me to where it should be.

[Silla]

I don't know how much help I can be, I have bipolar disorder but I mostly withdraw and try to hide my episodes from people. I had a few angry ones before I got put on medication but nothing like you've described.

Is your sister on medication? If she's just started it might take a while to find the right one or for it to start working. Medication might help a bit.

I don't think a lot of what you describe can be explained away with bipolar. Others might have more insight into this, but I think she might need some tough love. Bipolar sucks and you get angry or elated or upset or suicidal but if you just sit back, it's gonna keep happening. It sounds like she needs to take some responsibility for her disease. She might not realize this. It sounds like it's really hard to put up with her.

I couldn't tell you what to do in the situation. My position is that bipolar is something to be taken seriously, but not as an excuse for everything. It impairs my functioning, but I also know that if I'm proactive I can sometimes intervene and control myself and lessen the intensity of my episodes.

It must be hard to feel like it would be your fault if she did commit suicide. You can't be responsible for that kind of thing, it's not fair to you. You do what you can, and overextending yourself just hurts you and might make you less available. You are not responsible for everything.

To me it really sounds like she needs to take some responsibility. Sitting back and blaming bipolar is not going to help anything. Is she seeing a psychiatrist? Someone professional might be able to help your sister, and your family.

Hang in there.

[mle-sober]

Originally Posted by 1dayatatime

1. when she is being suspicious and mean about something she has conjoured up in her head, do I allow her to keep ranting?

2. She knows she is sick and uses the "Bipolar" label to excuse her bad behaviour. She says really mean and hurtfull things, things that just don't need to be said, causing chaos in the fam. The next day she is over it, and says to everyone she is bipolar and she can't help it. Do we jump back and say what we feel? Mostly we let her rant and try to calm her down, overlook it and move on. But it is or seems to be getting worse with her outrages. And who ever is in her path during what we think is an episode gets her wrath. She says she can't help it, she blurts out or hollars, "IM BIPOLAR G**D D** IT!", is this true?

3. when she calls after being up for 2-3 days and no sleep and realize she is drinking not taking her meds, do we stand firm in not allowing her to wollar in self pity?

4. She is at odds with someone always. Usually rationall thinking can help one realize it isn't as it seems. She can not process this rationally. She goes bezerk and if it aint me today it is someone tomorrow. There is always someone close to her causing her to be in a mood. Something someone said. No matter how small it is, she blows it out of proportion. Outside of listening to it over and over, what can I say to help calm her down?


Does biploar make you a mean and vengefull person or is this just her character?

Also my sister puts on real thick guilt on the fam. She brings up every episode she needed help and how this one or that one didn't care and didn't come to her rescue. Or if we did, we didn't do it properly. Is this typical bipolar behaviour?

I am trying not to hate her and do not want to shut her out of my life simply because i don't understand. But at the same time I can't keep allowing her to say and do the hurtful and mean things she does.

I have read everything online I can find about bipolar and nothing explains how to deal with someone with bipolar when she is being rude, vengeful, way of thinking.

But I have to ask is bipolar mean she will always be selfish and self centered? Is this fair to keep allowing her to be the center of attention? Can she help it at all? Can she refrain from saying rude and obnoxious things?

I'm sorry your sister is bipolar. The good thing is, she has a diagnosis after years of being undiagnosed. You should know that all that time has been traumatic for her. Being bipolar is traumatic.

The bad news is, it doesn't sound like she takes her meds regularly and like she has a good medical team. She sounds like she is extremely unstable and totally unmedicated. She needs to be inpatient for a little while until she gets stable, IMO. If I were acting the way your sister is acting (drinking, being belligerant and obnoxious, acting out) my therapist would put me in the hospital in a second. It's a clear sign she's not medicated properly.

That said, let me try to answer your questions. (I'm bipolar 1 and have a long traumatic history.)

1) You do not have control over her. You only have control over yourself. You cannot "NOT ALLOW" her to be rude. All you can do is change your own location. Leave. Don't sit around and take it. Excuse yourself nicely and leave.

2) Same thing. Yes, she has some control. But she is not treated and so no, she can't help some of it. Her hell is 1000 times greater than yours. Try to have compassion but protect yourself from too much exposure and hurt. I do think you are getting your sister and her disease confused here.

3) You don't have the power to "not allow her to wallow" in anything. It's not your job. It's not even possible. If you don't appreciate what she is doing or saying, tell her so nicely and excuse yourself.

4) There is nothing you can say to help calm her down. Nothing. Once again, you seem to give yourself a lot of power.

Bipolar does not make you a mean and vengeful person. It makes you act like one sometimes. But it doesn't change the person you are inside. It does, unfortunately, change how others think of you. ANd unfortunatly, you think you are seeing your sister but you are seeing her disease.

You don't have the power to NOT ALLOW her to say and do the hurtful and mean things. It's not within your power.

She is most likely not selfish and self-centered. I think every effort should be made to get her better medical care and she will change dramatically. In the meantime, I would do my best to care for her compassionately and less judgementally. And exit when needed. Limit how much time you spend with her and stop taking it all so personally.

Just my thoughts.

[1dayatatime]

Silla, thank you so much in responding. She was diagnosed about a year ago with bipolar but had been diagnosed 4 years prior with depression and was on depression meds. I don't think she takes her meds correctly for her bipolar. Because she had for years self medicated with alcohol. She admits the alcohol is a problem on rare occasions. I think your right and she doesn't take responsibility for her disease. She does see a psychiatrist, but I don't think she tells him that she drinks on occasion. Her occasions can be night after night for weeks to refraining for days then back to it. I want to understand her situation and reading your reply has helped tremendous.

Mle-sober, thank you as well for your reply. I so agree I don't have any power over her. Thats my codie crap thinking. I will start as you suggest to refrain from listening and remove myself from the situation when she goes on tangents. My first reaction was always usually getting sarcastic back with her then sometimes turn into a blown out argument. Then I slowly stopped to listen and let her rant. Then to avoiding her and feeling anxious when I knew she was gonna be around and I had to be around her. Now I am just trying to understand her bipolar and what she is going thru.

I think I am coming to understand her bipolar more thru these boards and reading. I am so glad SR is here! I am thinking the biggest problem is she is an alcoholic, not taking her meds properly. Her problem isn't that she is biploar. From what I am reading and undertsanding if she were to take her meds properly and stop drinking she may have a chance of a happier life. I even think she knows this. I even believe it that she knows this better than even I do. But I guess untill she gets sick and tired of being sick and tired, I can not help with words or being there to rescue her as i have no power of what she does. Before understanding bipolar i was believing and telling the family we needed to overlook her and let her be a "B****" because she was mentally ill. I am now realizing not taking her meds properly and drinking isn't helping. It is her drinking not biploar that is causing her so much grief.

I want to understand I want to listen and learn. For the most part anymore I can overlook her. And I do love her dearly. I used to look up to her and went to her for advice.

[mle-sober]

"It is her drinking not biploar that is causing her so much grief."


No, honey, it is both. They go hand in hand.

I couldn't get my drinking under control until I was properly medicated and stable. The right medication had to come first. Then it took me another 9 months to slowly and painfully accept that I'm an alcoholic.

My bipolar issue is a MUCH larger issue in my life than my drinking. My drinking is something that, once I accepted it, surrendered, and got help, I can manage. I've been sober for 16 months.

But my bipolar acts on it's own accord. I can get enough sleep, take my meds, exercise and eat well and I will still have episodes.

You can't really separate them very easily at the beginning. Saying one is the problem and not the other is erroneous.

I reiterate that your sister needs your support to get better medicated. If you could be an advocate for her health, perhaps she'd let you speak to her prescriber so that you could give them a more accurate picture of her health. Actually, you can always call and give your side of what it looks like. And ask the prescriber to be discreet with the fact you called....

[1dayatatime]

Originally Posted by mle-sober

"It is her drinking not biploar that is causing her so much grief."


No, honey, it is both. They go hand in hand.

I couldn't get my drinking under control until I was properly medicated and stable. The right medication had to come first. Then it took me another 9 months to slowly and painfully accept that I'm an alcoholic.

My bipolar issue is a MUCH larger issue in my life than my drinking. My drinking is something that, once I accepted it, surrendered, and got help, I can manage. I've been sober for 16 months.

But my bipolar acts on it's own accord. I can get enough sleep, take my meds, exercise and eat well and I will still have episodes.

You can't really separate them very easily at the beginning. Saying one is the problem and not the other is erroneous.

I reiterate that your sister needs your support to get better medicated. If you could be an advocate for her health, perhaps she'd let you speak to her prescriber so that you could give them a more accurate picture of her health. Actually, you can always call and give your side of what it looks like. And ask the prescriber to be discreet with the fact you called....

I see what your saying. I guess I am wanting to find something to blame. She is just soo smart and she is an RN so I keep wanting to think she can somehow help it. Mostly because she is a nurse, she herself should or I would think understand her illness better than anyone. Thinking if she wouldn't drink and take her meds she would be "normal". I am slowly understanding even doing everything in her power to medicate and stop the drinking she would still have episodes. But also thinking they might not be as severe and as long or even as many if she was trying to help herself and quit drinking.

It just seems so overwhelming and her outrages are causing so much turmoil in the family. If I was tell of her last episode it doesn't even seem real how she blew up and the circumstances. Seems to be a "last straw" for others in the fam. I can't just block her off my list. Wanting so bad to understand and needing the right words to talk to her. Everyone is avoiding her, no one is taking her calls. She knows we are all tired of her outbursts, she senses something and I hate not being able to talk to her.

I don't know, maybe I will try to figure out who her doc is and secretly somehow get a number. Make that call and maybe he/she can give the fam suggestions of how to cope and deal with her situation.

Thanks for your help in understanding

[mle-sober]

Where I live, there are also support groups (free) for friends and family of bipolar. Check out NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness.

Good luck to you.

[martha27]

Originally Posted by mle-sober

"It is her drinking not biploar that is causing her so much grief."


No, honey, it is both. They go hand in hand.

I couldn't get my drinking under control until I was properly medicated and stable. The right medication had to come first. Then it took me another 9 months to slowly and painfully accept that I'm an alcoholic.

My bipolar issue is a MUCH larger issue in my life than my drinking. My drinking is something that, once I accepted it, surrendered, and got help, I can manage. I've been sober for 16 months.

But my bipolar acts on it's own accord. I can get enough sleep, take my meds, exercise and eat well and I will still have episodes.

You can't really separate them very easily at the beginning. Saying one is the problem and not the other is erroneous.

I reiterate that your sister needs your support to get better medicated. If you could be an advocate for her health, perhaps she'd let you speak to her prescriber so that you could give them a more accurate picture of her health. Actually, you can always call and give your side of what it looks like. And ask the prescriber to be discreet with the fact you called....

I think that mle-sober has done an amazing job of succinctly summing up Bipolar and given you precisely the right advice, I feel that it could be overkill to add much more, however I would like to touch on one topic with the disclaimer that obviously I have no way of knowing what is happening to your sister. I would like to tell you a little bit about the state of mania or being manic and also suffering from paranoia.

I am new to this site as an alcoholic but I am not new to Bipolar, I have Bipolar 1 same as mle-sober, this means that we have just as many if not more manic episodes than depressed ones. I mainly suffer from mania, I very rarely suffer from depression. The mania starts off great, I feel good full of energy, I project an aura that everyone wants to be around, I am funny i am the life of the party, I excel in my job blah blah. Then I stop sleeping less and less and I kind of describe what happens next as like a robot short circuiting I start becoming quite paranoid and with that agressive, I can also just become agressive without the paranoia just as a symptom of a manic espisode.

I have had numerous fights with my family and friends during these times, some people still don't speak to me as a result. In the mania I love fighting, I fight with everyone, but particularly my family. I imagine all sorts of things, particulaly that people are talking behind my back (which they often are b/c I am behaving like a freak), I harp on about percieved wrongs from a thousand years ago and get very mafioso. I particularly enjoy it someone whats to fight back, it pumps me up even higher. On top of this I have visual and auditory hallucinations, meaning I imagine conversations which never took place and see and hear things which don't exist. of course my family had no idea of this when I was fighting with them, they just experience me being nasty and vindictive, it always ends in tears.

Paranoia is the worst thing about Bipolar for me I was in a constant state of anxiety and terror and members of my own family became like deadly assasins in my on mind. However despite all the terror and pain I still did not want to take my medication properly..why? because I have bipolar and I am not being rational, a sane healthy person would take their meds its a Catch 22 (have you ever read the book?) getting mentally ill people into treatment is very hard. But not impossible, having the right doctor is the begining.

Now I am on the right medication and I have and excellent doctor I am absolutely flabbergastered that I behaved the way I did, I feel ashamed about it and deeply regretful for the hurt I caused. I recognised I drank to calm myself down and stop the paranoid feelings, as mle-sober described, now I am finally getting my bipolar under control I am given the opportunity to deal with my alcoholism.

Read mle-sober' advice, it is excellent I cannot add much more, except if I was to say that often when mentally ill people are at their most horrid, angry, vicious etc is when they are also at their most desperate and ill, try and remember what your sister was like pre 16 years old, does this behaviour match the little girl you used to know? if it does then maybe it is her, if it is completely different and her behaviour totally inexplicable then as mle-sober says...shes not taking her meds and she is probably very ill.

if you guys don't fight with her and don't engage you will stop fueling the state she is in, whatever that may be. Take the focus off the fighting and back to her illness.

Good luck and protect yourself, just b/c she has Bipolar does not mean her words don't hurt.

[mle-sober]

Wow Martha! What a wonderful share. Thank you. Amazing. And even though we are here to help another, I find myself comforted by your words. I am not alone. The struggle with severe Bipolar is horrendous. It's awful. Thank you for sharing yours. You are very brave and strong and I'm so glad you have found help.

[1dayatatime]

Thank you Martha, along with the others I am really coming to a place in my mind of understanding my sister better.

She is always saying how alone she feels and like no one cares. I am starting to understand why. When she goes in these tangents (when she is at her worst) is when the fam and her friends really alienate her. Which is when she needs us the most.

I think coming here has gave me a few extra tools in understanding her. For one recognizing she can't help it. Second is to be calm and not bite back, just let her rant and rave then only offer comforting words best I can and tell her I love her.

And no her actions today do not reflect who she was when she was younger. She used to be so much fun. Describing yourself is pretty much sums her up too. I used to think she was superhuman. She was so organized, did her job extremely well, always sent wonderful cards and loved being around the fam. So energetic, seemed like sleep was not needed when she was on a project. When I would go visit her out of town, she would stay up just about the whole time I was there. I am understanding now it was possibly a mania episode. She has more depressed episodes now that she is older and what you describe too as paranoia.

Thanks for all the replys as they all have helped and made me closer to an understanding of what bipolar is and whats happening to my sister.

[martha27]

I am really pleased we could help onedayatatime, i know what you are going through is not easy and you are grieving for the sister you once had. She is still there, once she gets on track with her medication and doctor I know she will be so grateful for all the efforts you have gone to. It not easy to stick by someone with this illness. Good Luck!!