The dealing with depression in a simplistic manner thread

[steamvessel]

I just came to the realization today, that one of the reasons I haven't been tackling my depression head on is that it just seems too complicated, and I am avoiding all those steps. It's probably a part of the depression. I should be spending more time on the mental health forum, as I believe that this is what addiction really is all about. But there are all these diagnoses, meetings, solutions, therapists, it makes my head spin and I have been avoiding it. I don't have medical insurance: Otherwise I would be seeing therapist and getting help. I know there are options, but I just don't seem motivated enough to go through all that. I can't really explain why. I think I need some more simplistic, baby steps. I think my issues are probably outside the scope of what a self-help book or cognitive therapy could cure, but this seems to be the approach I am most motivated for. I don't know why, but I just don't feel like picking up the phone and reaching out to any research clinics, support groups, community programs. Just being honest here. That being said, I was hoping we could use this thread as a support group for others that may feel similarly to me. I'm the type of person that likes to write, I'm more open on this board than I would be in a group setting, and if I am going to get counciling I want it to be from a qualified person, such as a Psychiatrist or a clinical psychologist with a Phd. Not to take away from social service therapists, but I am just picky about who I open up to in person. If any of you have any advice, books you've read, quotes, inspirations, real life stories, or any other methods to dealing with the core issues of depression, I'd like for us to swap notes on this thread.

[Bamboozle]

Hello, steam, and thank you. I cannot afford to see a therapist at the moment. I need this.

I should probably be spending more time in the Mental Health Forum as well, but maybe I don't post there often because I've never been officially diagnosed. I'm sure they wouldn't see me as a poser, but I'd feel that way...

It's been hard lately to find reasons to keep moving on. I'm just really down. I can't stop thinking, and now that booze isn't an option, I don't know what I can do to escape. I can face my problems and admit the truth, but I can't change how I feel about myself. I don't like how my life is making me feel. I don’t know what I can do about that now. Sorry, just needed to rant.

I hope that I'll be able to contribute something positve to this thread soon. This is a fantastic idea--I'm looking forward to reading what others have to say.

[jurneyman]

Something else you might try is looking for a psychatric physicians assistant who is working in a social services setting. Don't let the name fool you, some of these, assistants have worked under the best physicatric doctors, and have 20 years of on the front lines experience, They will take more time with you, and are more up to date on the newest thearpy technics, they also have more time to do the reserch, becase it is more like a 9 to 9 job, so they are more inclined to work one on one with a cliant, and
take the time and treat them as an individual, not just a number. Don't be afraid to ask him or her what their credentials, and experiece are, they normaly won't feel insulted as a dr would. But do treat them with respect, they earned it. A lot of them were nurses in the service treating PTSD victims from actual combat, and some are ex RN's who wanted and deserved.more

[allport]

I agree with your sentiments Steamvessel, sometimes things just seem so complicated and circular I dont know where I need to start.

I am currently seeing an addictions counsellor, she is a good woman but shes just qualified after being a hairdresser for 15 years, and I feel like she is reading from a script when she talks to me and its getting to the point where she is running out of ideas.

She has the interest but not the experience, but when Ive seen real psychiatrists and psychologists I get the feeling that they have no real interest in me because my problems are complicated by alcoholism and are therefore not purely psychiatric.

Ive been diagnosed with so many different things I dont know if there is nothing wrong with me or I am a hopeless case.

The point im trying to make (in a long winded way) is that I dont feel that i am being catered for by the medical system and I too would appreciate some advice or just stories of experiences from people who have been there. x

[deerwalk]

I don't put too much stock in therapists. I have tried quite a few over the span of 12 years and I never found a good one. One was okay, but I can't deal with the staring at each other in a small room until I say something, and then analyzing to death not even what I said, but about what was "going on", i.e. "Why did I choose that moment to say that particular thing?", etc. It's circular and ridiculous in my opininion. It seems I never get to say what's on my mind- we have to do things the therapist's way. Not too keen on paying for that experience, plus I usually leave upset. Really,is it that hard to just be a listening ear? Besides, why can't the therapist be more proactive and say "let's try this", or ask me something instead of makng me feel like a bug under a microscope until I finally think of something to say after feeling horribly nervous because I'm expected to come up with something only to be trapped in the circle again?

[Vintersemestre]

I can help you out on the book front... I may have posted some of these before.

"Healing Anxiety and Depression" Daniel G Amen, MD/Lisa C Routh, MD
"Undoing Depression" Richard O'Connor, PHD
"Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy" David D Burns, PHD
"The Truth about Addiction and Recovery" Stanton Peele, PHD

I also think understanding and interpreting your dreams is important to recovering from neurosis.

"Mindful Dreaming" David Gordon, PHD
"10,000 Dream Interpreted" Gustavus Hindman Miller

[steamvessel]

I've read Feeling Good, that's a good book. Another good one is PsychoCybernetics (I read this book in college, and it really does work), and Self-Esteem written by authors of the California Commision on Self-Esteem. Man, I seem to be in such a rut of anger that I can't even begin this process, a lot of these methods require you to let go, be relaxed, and sort of let your sub-concious take control. I've been so angry and I am in a living situation that doesn't feel like home, I can't even seem to take that step. I am also really scatter- brained more than normal lately. I am a very ambitious guy and have lots of goals, but I am having a hard time getting going on anything in my current environment, and I often lose focus and switch from one task to another, then I feel like I always have to get out of the house, or it's time for a nap. I just have to get going again, I've never put this much effort into something and gotten the opposite results I have been looking for. Hopefully I'll be back with more positive things to say.

[Vintersemestre]

I know what you mean, personally I have a lot of ambition to make art and write music. Unfortunately I end up starting twenty projects and never finishing one of them most of the time. For the time being I'm just stepping back and chilling out and letting things settle down before I can change my behaviour enough to pick one thing, commit to it and see it through to the end.

[kelsh]

Hi Everyone,

I do belong to Sober Recovery & also a Depression Forum. I have had many years of depression driven by anger to total helplessness & hopelessness. I had many stopping times for drinking but couldn't stay stopped.

I had medications for depression & anxiety but would quit them to self medicate my depression.

When I finally had enough I made an appointment to see a mental health counselor because I thought I was crazy living like I was...drinking every day after work & more on weekends...with a 12 year old recently diagnosed daughter with Insulin Dependent Diabetes or more commonly called Juvenile Diabetes.

I am doing Christmas this year with a family letter for cards and have a few gifts to buy....some at the $1 store. I like to buy a Christmas Stocking & put little items in for fun.

All of my kids are adults with families of their own and three grandkids are married & three are 15, 16, & 7. The teens get money & the little guy gets lots of small gifts & some clothing. He is so smart & loves everyone just because he likes everyone like he says.

I was too depressed to do Christmas last year but am all better now. A med change didn't work & what a mistake I made to even agree to it.

It has been 20 years since I went to mental health for that appointment and I have been sober & taking meds for my depression all 20 of those years.

I went to AA the first year every night...then the second year I worked part time & went back to college in the evenings to get my BA Degree in Psychology and ended up eventually being a mental health counselor for the elderly. I worked many years in different capacities helping the elderly and it certainly was my special nitch in life. I started the mental health career at age 50 so feel very proud of what I did accomplish. I continued attending AA about three nights a week and in later years have used sober recovery programs on the Internet.

It is hard to get motivated and I had a lot of trouble with self esteem but that all changed the longer I was sober. I did a lot of work on my own with workbooks, books, & meditation books plus the Big Book. But most importantly I worked on staying sober right along with my counseling for my depression.

I had depression before I ever had a drink of alcohol but that first drink told the story for me....I did come from a long line of family alcoholics.. some did get sober without help & some with help. Also there is a family history of depression untreated & treated.

IMO...everyone has to do it what ever way it works for them. The health care system in the US is not the best but there are ways to get help without insurance if you dig deep enough into the county coffers.

I have found for myself that there is no simplistic way to deal with depression or alcohol issues. These are very complicated diseases and our mind, body, & soul are all affected by the alcohol as well as our families & friends.

Keep coming back, ask many questions, & keep sharing your thoughts & feelings with us.

kelsh

[Bamboozle]

I'm wondering...


...What do you do when you have mood swings all the time? At least a few a day...

Anyone have any tips or tricks?

I go from "okay" to being in a near-rage or really depressed in seconds. Anything can trigger it and I can stay that way for minutes or hours...and then just as quickly I go back to being "okay" or somewhat happy. The process can repeat.

Being around people really sets it off. I can't bear to be at work anymore. I quit this job two months ago and then had to come back because I couldn't find anywhere else to work.

What can I do to manage this when I can't get away...when I'm at work? I feel like I can't control it. I’m so glad I have this weekend off, but then it’s back to "hell". When I’m home, at least I can find ways to avoid people (face to face).

[Vintersemestre]

I quit my job too. I complained about how much I hated it long enough. Government cheese for me for the next little while. I need a break.

[allport]

Ive recently quit work to concentrate on getting myself well, ive taken the odd month off before, felt better, gone back to work and slid right back to hell.

Im in no hurry to get back into employment even though it means Ive got to get used to living on pennies, I feel less stressed already not having to deal with other people.

However I am aware that Im likely to isolate myself and I do need some contact with other people to keep me sane.

Im studying at the moment, a course that im interested in just for its own sake, its hard work but its showing me how ive neglected my mind.

Mood swings are the bane of my life too Bam, ive realised that counselling or therapy wont work for me until i can stabilise my moods.

The way i feel can change before i reach the end of a sentence and as there is no continuity in my reactions i cant really deal with anything.

I dont seem to have much luck identifying the triggers that cause my moods to change so dramatically, but they seem to revolve around other people, i think im stuck in a permanent state of adolescent self consiousness, no good for a woman approaching her forties.

I am getting through day to day trying to enjoy myself as much as i can, its not much at the moment but ive got to hope things will improve in sobriety.

[Freedom1990]

Originally Posted by kelsh

It is hard to get motivated and I had a lot of trouble with self esteem but that all changed the longer I was sober. I did a lot of work on my own with workbooks, books, & meditation books plus the Big Book. But most importantly I worked on staying sober right along with my counseling for my depression.

I had depression before I ever had a drink of alcohol but that first drink told the story for me....I did come from a long line of family alcoholics.. some did get sober without help & some with help. Also there is a family history of depression untreated & treated.

IMO...everyone has to do it what ever way it works for them. The health care system in the US is not the best but there are ways to get help without insurance if you dig deep enough into the county coffers.

I have found for myself that there is no simplistic way to deal with depression or alcohol issues. These are very complicated diseases and our mind, body, & soul are all affected by the alcohol as well as our families & friends.

kelsh

Lots of good stuff in what I quoted from you, Kelsh. For me, ongoing recovery from my alcoholism has been the cornerstone in battling the chronic depression. I've also been in counseling for a year now. I've leaned on counseling several times over the years when the depression has hit me hard and have also been on an antidepressant for years.

I have also set some goals for myself, and am now in college full-time to finally complete my degree.

I really appreciate everything you shared! :ghug

[steamvessel]

Great points everybody, I am really finding inspiration in that sobriety is the cornerstone for overcoming depression. One thing I have noticed about depression is that the isolation and ruminating that takes place, makes me question the validity of anything, even the depression. The whole process puts me in such a state of withdrawal, self-conciousness and confusion, that I don't know if I am actually dealing with any issues anymore, or if I just don't really feel like a human being. That I am so worthless that I'm not dealing with symptoms of something wrong with me, I'm dealing with broken machinery and I don't even know where to start. I've set off on so many journeys to make myself better, I can't even count how many times. Graduating college after being a poor student in high school, getting into a serious, loving relationship after not letting people get close to me and being crazy afraid of intimacy, buying a house and having a respectable career working at Nike, and overcoming my intense self-conciousness and shyness to play music publicly and trying to also develop career aspirations in that. I've come so far, each time I blaze forward I think that this is it.... as Ralph Waldo Emerson said, "do the thing and you have the power".... I keep thinking and hoping that I do all these things, overcome all these fears and pushing myself forward that something will happen. Medication never worked for me when I was on it: I was on several different meds, both anti-depressants and anti-psychotics. I was diagnosed with schizophrenia when I was 18, they told me it was mild. I think I probably teeter on those issues today, but I am in no way psychotic right now. I've been to psychiatrists, psychologists several times through the years. I really have accomplished a lot and worked hard to overcome these issues. What angers me is, why am I now on an alcohol forum, depressed, going through a break up, and feeling like the world is just dealing me bad blows? Is it my attitude? What is it going to take to overcome this? Most people don't do 5% of this work, but they don't feel worthless like me? It's just hard to get motivated again to do it all again when you feel like you already have.

One of my big symptoms that has been brought to light recently for me is disassociation. This is strongly related to me and my accomplishments. I'm pretty brave for a person that has self-conciousness and issues with shyness, and I will frequently just feel the fear and go for it anyway- this has brought about positive results- in my career, music, and other ventures. But something happens, I never seem to be able to own, accept, or be comfortable as this success. I think I diminish it and disassociate myself with that persona. I diminish my accomplishments and abilities, even though they are high and higher than that of those who get credit. I don't want to do this, it's not really me trying to do this, it's got to be sub-concious. I often times have to fight to just try to get back to where I was. People will have respect for me, then I get that puzzled look and they kind of move on once they see me differently when I become insecure again. I don't know what made this happen, whether it is non-verbal cues or not. I am not very expressive emotionally, and I think this may be part of it. I don't go around smiling a lot or expressing myself; I try, but it just doesn't feel natural to me. I think I have a hard time accepting that I occupy space in this world and that I can actually be something, I hate this more than I can describe in words. It makes me also see the cruelty of people and nature because you just get ignored when you feel like this, and you want to be appreciated for who you are.

Anyways, just my thoughts for the day. I think this thread is going to be good, I think this is what I need- hopefully other people can feel the same. I don't feel like talking about my issues because I am looking for somebody to tell me what to do, I feel like sharing them so that I can gain perspective, be listened to, and to do the same with other people.

[Vintersemestre]

I can't say I'm still in the same situation as a lot of you as I have basically found a cure for my chronic "untreatable" depression (some may say that the treatment is worse than the disease, I disagree), but I can obviously still relate as I suffered for years before I found this cure. Disassociation was a big symptom for me and I think that it has to do with a lack of natural endorphins.

[Isaiah]

Writing has been my thing. I write stories as self-supportive projects. I also have an anonymous blog where I go when I need to get something off in an instant. I wrote a long entry tonight. Started off one place and by the end I'd almost gone through every sort of trauma of the past... well... basically my whole life! When I re-read it I started making a lot of connections that I'd never thought about before. Free association is good.

My experience with therapy hasn't been so much that the therapist helps makes things better, but I like going because they help make the problems more clear. I get suggestions from them, which can be good or bad. Ultimately though I'm just using it as a way to better understand myself, so I can fix what needs fixing. More often than not I leave my sessions feeling worse than when I went in. But in a way that feels also good, because I'm coming to trust in their ability to at least frame my somewhat knotted emotional issues into a sharper image. Two cents.

[steamvessel]

Thanks Isaiah, makes sense. Talking things out loud forces them out of my head and into something palitable. Hearing myself say things out loud will shoot down the merit of irrational thinking sometimes and put it into reality. This is necessary for me to think clearly, which is really what overcoming depression is about. I'm feeling better today, I had a nice talk with my brother and sister in law about some situations in my life, very therapeutic. It's funny how the situation you are in stays the same, but if you change your perception you've changed it just as much as anything else you could have done in terms of action. I need more of this and to continue, we can climb mountains with the right emotional attitude, strength, and having a good perspective.

[Isaiah]

My mom and my sister are my favorite therapists.

[finallyclean08]

Steam I think its great that you have a brother and sister in law that will listen to you. Thats a good thing that you have family around you. I know for me my depression over the years I would not have been able to get through this life without my family and God. I know I have been searching for something my whole life something to fill a hole in my heart to finally make me happy. I found it when I found codeine, I drank for a while too but didn't really enjoy the hangover the next day. But now that Im off the codeine I still have to fill this hole. I know now that the pills didn't fill the hole it was just masking the need to have it filled...made me think everything was ok at least for the time being. I truly and honestly believe that everyone is looking for something and with the support of family and friends, online or not, wherever you can get them we can all help each other find happiness. It may not seem when you are so down that you can get out again. Believe me I've been there the past couple of days. I have taken each day 10 minutes at a time, I try to pull my head back into the present. I know I make it sound easy and its not believe me. When my head starts to wander in the future or the past I have to consciously take it somewhere else. We have enough to worry about today without worrying about tomorrow too.

[jurneyman]

Some where I have read or heard that God doesn't give us any more then we can handle,
each day. If I decide to dig up the past [guilt]or worry about the future [fear], and it is added to what I have to deal with today, then it becomes more then I can handle in this one day. Then it is on me not on God

[finallyclean08]

Originally Posted by jurneyman

Some where I have read or heard that God doesn't give us any more then we can handle,
each day. If I decide to dig up the past [guilt]or worry about the future [fear], and it is added to what I have to deal with today, then it becomes more then I can handle in this one day. Then it is on me not on God

Thanks jurneyman I like that. Im gonna put that on my mirror to read every morning. Trying to live in the present is especially hard.

[Vintersemestre]

God is dead and we're alone. Just kidding :P

The concept of God to me is more benign than it is to most people on these forums, while I'm a buddhist, I'm also a traditionalist pagan and do often perform rituals and tasks associated with my ancestral nordic religion. I find doing these tasks alone very spiritually satisfying.

If I were asked whether or not I actually believe in my pagan gods, I'd be hard-pressed to say that I do. I do believe they were based on real people but I don't believe they're actual deities watching from heaven (or asgard, as the case may be).

[huggybear]

The cause of depression is believed to be down to a lack of neural chemicals that regulate mood present in the brain.. So by that token its generally treated by methods of increasing the levels of neural chemicals..

This is most often done with SSRI's (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors).. Which slow down the process of serotonin being Brocken down after it has been used.. thus providing a higher level of serotonin in the brain.. serotonin is one of you main neural transmitters which is largly responsible for regulating mood ( it’s the same neural-transmitter that MDMA works on) and a deficiency of it is considered to be the most prominent cause of depression... but its becoming a more common beleaf that other neural transmitters are widely responsible too...

the issue with using meds are:
1) while they do increase the presence of chemicals which is often enough... it dosnt resolve any issues that many depressives have of in actually making the chemicals in the 1st place... some people can have vitamin and mineral deficiency.. vitamins are used to convert amino acids into the neural transmitters that are needed and no amount of SSRI's will cure that... some people can have issues extracting nutrients from food which means they can’t convert them either...

some people can be cured by taking vitamin B complex supplements.. ( b12, B6 mainly)... other people respond well to amino acids such as 5HTP, l-tyrosine, DLPA, l-glutamine and a stack of others... these are the chemical precursors for the chemicals that control regulate you mood which bypasses a lot of the process involved in creating them and hopefully cure the depression...
plus amino acids are very cheap compared to medication.. i can get a kilo of l-glutamine off the net for about £19 GBP

also exorcise is highly recommended for depression... one of the reasons is that it improves you metabolism which means you can process food and create neural-chemicals better..

2) They have side effects and in some people they can actually make them worse. or maybe less depressed by cause anxiety and aggression. Many of them also have really bad withdrawal symptoms...

I've always found that understanding depression and realising that’s its not a psychological flaw but a biological condition is of big help when it comes to dealing with it..

also Google depression read read read...that’s how I got over it, with a solid understanding of it...

hope this helps
good luck