Advice

[Mamabear]

I am the parent of a 19 year old son who has a diagnosis of bipolar II and has been using grass for over a year. he has a good therapist and does take his meds (somewhat regularly). he was in college but is now home to try to get it together. It is heart wrenching watching a once brilliant loving young man deteriorate and become despairing and depressed. Any advice on how I can support him? What helps? What doesn't? How long does it take to get this in control? Did anyone go through college w/ challenges like this?

[Caveman]

You sound like you could be describing me about 20 years ago. I cannot tell you what will work for you, I can only tell you what worked for me.

In a nut shell, tough love. He needs to get clean and that means he can use nothing. Over time, his using will get worse and the person that he was, the person that he still can be will be gone.

He is a young man with a difficult disease. Lay out the ground rule of getting clean. Test him if you need to. If he can't get clean kick him out. Although you should support his college endevors, if he is getting high every day, he is not serious about life. Therefore I beleive that you do not have the obligation to support him in a material way.

My story is much longer than that, and it does have a happy ending, but it is not a happy story, but that is it in a nut shell.

[Mamabear]

Thanks for your encouragement caveman. I have never used a messageboard before so I'm pretty slow at this. Basically we told him that we will not pay for anymore school till he's clean and that he'll have monthly blood and or urines. We also took away the priviledge of driving our cars as we feel it's unsafe for him and for others. Frankly, he sees this as an attempt to control him. We don't want to subsidize his use. But I don't see this working....at least not yet. He's very depressed and starting to look and buy into the grunge look. Believe me when I say this is shocking for all who knew him in the past. He has amazing leadership abilities, an incredible personality, screamin high sat's, and really good looks.
I'm trying to take care of myself through this but that's no easy task. Although I love him so much, I was able to tell him I will not go down with him.
Do you have a relationship w/ family now?
Sometimes I think he needs inpatient care but he's too old for us to compell it as parents.
I'm trying hard not to give up hope....

[Juls]

MamaBear,

Bi-Polar can be a difficult disorder to have and to treat. Many people are on their high-end very high functioning, and intelligent. Your son is young, and it's good that he is taking his meds. I don't know though if marijuana use counter-acts the meds, but it's definitely something that he needs to stay away from.

I think the limits that you are setting are very appropriate. However, if you don't see that he is getting any better in terms of his symptoms, I suggest getting a second opinion, having his doses re-evaluated, etc. I don't know all his history, so I'm not sure what all to suggest, what you have tried, etc.

Juls

[Mamabear]

Thank you Juls,

He's on his 3rd combination of meds...now using wellbutrin and abilify. Although zyprexa worked it also numbed him too much. None of the antidepressants seem to break the hold of the depression. Of course they are weakened by grass use and some alcohol use. Since we took away the car and said we won't pay for tuition unless he's clean, he is white knuckling it....won't go to a meeting, says he can quit on his own . he did for 3 weeks and used again 2 days ago. (This part is his - determining whether or not he has a problem w/ substances.) For some reason he has difficulty relating to recovering folks and feels they don't understand
I fluctuate from being supportive and present to frustrated and overly invested. I shoot for loving and yet detached. Not sure any of this makes sense. Sometimes I even feel like he died as we knew him and I mourn that.
This diagnosis is a bitch. Believe it or not it helps immensely knowing there are people living their lives with this. And are willing to talk about it.
A second opinion might be a good idea.

[Caveman]

Mamabear-

Yes I do have a relationship with my family now and my life is far better than I every could have dreamed.. But I went through hell to get here. I was thrown out of my folks house. (With good reason.)

I ended up putting myself though college. I paid for everything, no loans. It was very difficult, but as I look back, it is one of the things that I am most proud of.

It sounds to me like he maybe embarassed about admiting he has a problem. After I was diagnosed with depression, it took me a long time to come to terms with it. I still struggle with that fact.

I support the actions you have taken so far. Although I understand your concern about how he is dressing, but I think that maybe college students today. At this stage, what matters is not his dress, but his actions.

Although I am not a big meetting guy, I would suggest you find a support group for yourself and your husband and maybe call around and see if there is a group that is geared toward young people.

I wish you all the best.

[Mamabear]

Caveman,

A support group for us is hard to find. I am looking for one for family of those w/bipolar. We may have to go w/ Alanon.We do have a therapist walking us through though. He is a Godsend.
As far as the "grunge look" I should probably clarify. Joseph is taking less showers, is wearing unwashed laundry, and brushes his teeth sporadically. As far as style, I don't care really. He has always changed his appearance over the years...that is just fun. My concern was that his depression is deepening because he is tyaking poorer care of himself. Of course the I can fix it voice in me tells me to step in and help by washing his laundry and remionding him about hygiene. then the logical side says that won't help him a bit so I don't. I wish this were simpler.
I'm glad to hear you have a good relationship w/ your family. And wow, what an accomplishemnt to put yourself through school. That is indeed something to be proud of. Again, thanks for your kind words and support.

[Lilya]

Mamabear,
You have a difficult problem, but it´s also a challenge. I was a juvenile delinguent twenty years ago, always using drugs and alcahol and creating dramas - even with the police - to get the adrenaline flowing in order to beat my depression. I got clean and sober after 15 years of drugtaking and drinking and gambling, then put myself through college, and after I got clean I started my career.

I suffered a trauma in my life that ended this nonsense. Also, people dropped me - and no wonder. Ditto to what Caveman said. Tough love is what is required. My family also threw me out and it took years to win back their love and respect.

My ex-husband was clinically depressed and smoked pot, which made his depression triple bad. He and my daughter went to a sect and I severed all ties to my husband years ago and my relationship with my daughter is on hold for some time now. Tough deal, but life is unfair. Yet there is so much beauty, fun and hope to be found in life. Please don´t forget that.

There are no easy answers here. If your son is not looking after himself - like washing his clothes and showing his body respect, he is in very depressed. The only hope I can give you is from my personal experience: Tough love - but watch out for serious symptoms like suicidal thoughts. I will try to find some information on support group. I live in Paris, but I often go to the American Church for meetings. I´ll ask around and let you know.

You´re not alone. Take care of yourself as well. Remember, while traveling in an airplane when they show the demos for oxygen: "Put the oxygen mask on yourself before assisting the child".

My thoughts are with you,

Love and light

Use adversity

[Juls]

MamaBear

Your son is struggling with an illness over which he has no control. He is also 19, which can be a struggle in itself. Many people in that age range are partying in order to have a good time.

Unfortunately there is not one easy answer for you and your son which I'm sure you already know. Until he is able to admit and realize that marijuana use is aggravating his problems and is a problem for him, it will be difficult for him to quit. It is always hard to quit on one's own, and I can relate to his unwillingness to do so in a group.

The bi-polar issue will be something he will have to be dealing with for the rest of his life. It is not uncommon for individuals to struggle with taking their meds and admitting to themselves they have this problem.

However, there are also many people who are managing their Bi-Polar diagnosis, and their lives.

Stick with the limits you have set. He has an illness, but he is not unable to follow rules. Let him know you love him, which I'm sure you do, and that you want to help him get better, but that he also has to help himself. If this he his third round of meds then I think a second opinion would be a good idea.

Also, I think that any positive behavior should be acknowledged. You said he went three weeks without using, was he allowed privledges during those three weeks, i.e., use of car, etc. What are the things that matter to him. Does he like music, art, books, concerts, I have always found that reinforcement of positive behavior works very well in helping to change unwanted behaviors.

Juls

[Mamabear]

Thank you so much for the replies.
I have two more questions; hope that's okay.
How do you know when inpatient care is appropriate? Is a dual diagnosis facility necessary or can a D/A facility work just fine? We live near an excellent D/A facility.
And how do you handle insurance? Time is ticking....if my son is not a fulltime student, he'll be off my insurance which means no more appts. or meds paid for.
I'm sure you already know this, but thank you...it helps so much to be heard and understood.

[Juls]

Mamabear,

I would talk to his Dr. about in-patient treatment, but from what you've posted here, in-patient treatment seems like a resource that could be very beneficial for him, if he is willing.

I think Dual Diagnosis treatment centers are best for people that suffer from mental disorders, but talk to the director at the Drug abuse center and ask them how the treat patients with a diagnosis such as your son has. I have heard of some places that won't take patients if they need to be on psych meds.

The treatment center I went to was a dual diagnosis center, although the emphasis was on treatment for substance abuse. I ended up going through the program three times. For some of us it takes more than once.

Juls

[Mamabear]

dear Juls,

Thanks for your reply.
I worry about insurance....so I guess multiple stays are allowed? I am a teacher and also a crisis worker so I can remember as far back as 15 years ago....kids got 30 -60 day programs approved no problem but now if a kid gets a 14 day program approved it's a good thing. Unbelievable.
I did broach the subject with Joe but so far he thinks he can do it himself. If he were younger I could take a different stance. He's over 18 so it's truly all in his hands. The only things I can do are pray, keep the lines of communication open, and take care of me as best I can (no easy feat).
I wish you continued good health and strength.
Thanks for reaching out to me.
MB

[Mamabear]

Caveman,

How are you today?

mb

[Juls]

MaMaBear,

I know the insurance thing can be a problem. Two of the times I paid, or should I say, my husband paid, quite a few thousand dollars, which I didn't hear the end of for awhile.

Your doing the right thing by trying to take care of yourself, and also if you can detach a little it would help you not to be so affected, but I know that is difficult.

Juls

[Mamabear]

Dear Juls,

I started looking for meetings in my area. Are alanon meetings appropriate for a loved one abusing drugs? Or are there different meetings for that?
Detach.
Tough when it's my son. I am trying. I don't want to go down w/ him.
I guess I'll worry about insurance when it's a problem.
Thanks for the help.
mb

[Lilya]

Mamabear,

Nar-anon is for people who deal with loved ones drugtaking. Al-anon is usually for people who have alchoholic spouse, children or friends. I think you could get help in both places. There is a forum here for both.

I know it´s almost impossible to let go. Sometimes we enable our children´s drugtaking by being always there when they hit hard times. I had to let go of my daughter after years of struggle. She is in a sect and not a day goes by I don´t fear she will commit a group suicide. But I have tried everything and the only thing is to let go. I concentrate now on my nieces and nephews, but I will be there for her when my daughter has obtained some clarity. This is my cross to bear and I have to accept it - and detach from it so it won´t kill me.

I found some support groups for you on the Net. I hope they are of help to you.

Regional MDDA Support Groups
... Assorted, Depression and manic-depression support groups meet in Danbury, Farmington, Naugatuck, Norwich, Orange, Portland, Stratford, Wallingford, and Windsor. ...
www.mddaboston.org/regional.html cached | more results from this site

2. Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance
formerly the National Depressive and Manic Depressive Association. Learn about support groups, symptoms, education, and more.
www.dbsalliance.org/ cached | more results from this site
More sites about: Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance

3. Depression Support Groups Calendar
... Here is the depression support group schedule. Complete the form below to join the group. All groups meet in our chat rooms. TOPIC, DAY/TIME (CST), HOST, ROOM. ...
http://www.healthyplace.com/Communit...m_calender.htm cached | more results from this site

4. Open Directory - Health: Mental Health: Disorders: Mood: ...
... under age 30. Personal experiences, support groups, what to do if you have depression, questions and answers, choosing therapy. ...
dmoz.org/Health/Mental_Health/Disorders/Mood/Depression/Support_Groups/ cached | more results from this site

5. Depression Support: Depression Help, Depression Support Groups, ...
... resources for depression. You can search for depression support groups in your area by clicking on a map. There is a comprehensive ...
www.cfw.tufts.edu/rrviewtopics.asp?topicid=116 cached | more results from this site

6. Dr. Grohol's Psych Central: Depression: Support Groups
... URL: http://www.trappedminds.org/ 13-Mar-2003 - Hits: 22 - Rate This | Details: Yahoo Support Groups - Depression A listing of online support groups dealing ...
psychcentral.com/resources/Depression/Support_Groups/ cached | more results from this site

There are more. Go to Yahoo search using the guide words depression support groups.

Love and light,

Use adversity

[Juls]

Lilya,

Thank you for that great post, with all those links.

Juls

[Caveman]

Originally posted by Mamabear
Caveman,

How are you today?

mb

Thank you for asking. I was on a trip there that lasted a little longer than it should have. Thank the airlines. I won't mention any names but it is the opposite of southeast.

[Mamabear]

Caveman,

lol
we could trade nasty airline stories but instead, here's a twist...I have the tendency to talk to those around me on the plane (Are you rolling your eyes?) and was once stuck on a tarmac for over 2 hours. I had previously struck up a conversation w/ my neighbor who turned out to be the author of What's Eating Gilbert Grape, Peter Hedges. he is so delightful and we have kept in touch sporadically since.
Anyway, I'm glad you're fine and around again. I went to my first alanon meeting and spoke. I have decided to commit to the process, try out several meetings and not make a judgement about them for several months. I respect so many people who have found help through the program that I feel I owe it to myself. I am trying to detach some. trying.
I hope you are well. Thank you for honoring my first request here on these boards. I'm not very computer literate or I would have sent this privately. For some reason what you wrote to me moved me and kept me reading this. I thank you and will offer a prayer for you. I'm sure God knows Caveman!!!
best,
MB

[Mamabear]

Dear Lilya,

Thank you for your research. Tomorrrow I'll get busy with it. I appreciate the time and effort you invested. When I figure out how to, I'll make a hrd copy for future reference. Not too computer savy!
And thanks for the support.
Things are actually deteriorating and mutating(that's my descriptor for bipolar changes....so unpredictable) here. I kind of expected that as my husband and I get 'healthier' our son won't like that. I was right.
I'm staying calm and trying to detach. I'm better at the calm part today.
Again, thank you very much,
MB

[Caveman]

Originally posted by Mamabear
Caveman,

lol
we could trade nasty airline stories but instead, here's a twist...I have the tendency to talk to those around me on the plane (Are you rolling your eyes?) and was once stuck on a tarmac for over 2 hours. I had previously struck up a conversation w/ my neighbor who turned out to be the author of What's Eating Gilbert Grape, Peter Hedges. he is so delightful and we have kept in touch sporadically since.
Anyway, I'm glad you're fine and around again. I went to my first alanon meeting and spoke. I have decided to commit to the process, try out several meetings and not make a judgement about them for several months. I respect so many people who have found help through the program that I feel I owe it to myself. I am trying to detach some. trying.
I hope you are well. Thank you for honoring my first request here on these boards. I'm not very computer literate or I would have sent this privately. For some reason what you wrote to me moved me and kept me reading this. I thank you and will offer a prayer for you. I'm sure God knows Caveman!!!
best,
MB

That was a great book!

I am honored and humbled by your post.

By helping other, we help ourselves.

Thank you.

[Mamabear]

Ok, here are two questions:
What do I say to my son when he says driving high is much safer than driving drunk???? I know I can't laugh out loud or
say "Rrrright." (That was tonight's dinner conversation)
and
Any suggestions on handling a grandiose mood? Although most younger adults see themselves as ten foot tall and bulletproof, he does in a big way. There's no reasoning w/ him when he's this way.

Let the crowd cheer though....I did not get tearful or manipulative or passionate and actually thought I could keep my feet on the ground for today!
Mamabear (I'm thinking about changing this name....it may be time to identify myself in terms of myself!)

[Lilya]

Dear Mamabear,
In answer to your first question, I would simply say: "That´s´s ridiculous." Don´t use sarcasm as it probably fuels your son´s anger. Or say nothing.
I know it´s a tricky situation. When my daughter got involved with her sect, she said: "And I will become the Guru´s bride and further my spiritual growth."
In the end, I chose not to comment. They believe all this. Luckily, you still have your son. It´s better not to come on too strong.
Have courage,

Use adversity

[Mamabear]

Dear Juls, Lilya, Caveman and Margo,

What are your feelings about intensive outpatient care?
Can it work? Yesterday my son acknowledged his use is a problem and scheduled an appointment for an eval today. I know this center offers inpateient and IOP with meetings. Any advice???

Mamabear

[Lilya]

Congratulation, Mamabear!

This is a very important step. Huge progress. Admitting the problem is half the battle. Now your son can deal with his problem.

I used an outpatient program after I stopped using in 1986. It did help, but only by following the doctor´s advice and taking the medicins. There were some support groups but that didn´t help me at the time. The twelve step system had not arrived in Paris with it´s groups like today.

In my opinion, it should work well.

Good luck,

Use adversity