"Dual diagnosis" but doesn't think he has BP...

[Callie]

I talked with a counselor that AH and I have both seen on and off for a few years. He specializes in substance abuse. He said he firmly believes AH has bipolar. But AH doesn't think he has it and will accept very little help to determine if he does have it. He's tried meds, but has apparantly been taking opiates sporadically with them. His excuse is "it doesn't work". Of course not when you're adding your own stuff into the cocktail.

He's taken multiple online tests to determine bipolar (I know, not the most reliable) and it shows there is a strong possibility that he does have it.

Counselor actually mentioned "dual diagnosis" with AH - I realize this is very serious. I know his first step is getting clean, I realize he's got a long hard road ahead of him. Anyone have any advice as to how to help AH? Any words of wisdom for someone who has or is dealing with this?

[bsfish]

My understanding is dual diagnosis means addiction plus a disorder of some kind ie bi-polar. My AW is bipolar. The docs we have dealt with in the past just kept piling on the meds, until we found one she could really abuse (adderal) on top of everything she was already abusing. Now that she is in rehab, and dealing with docs that really know, they say you can't make an accurate dignosis while the addiction is active. It really takes 12-24r months clean to level our and see what is really underthere. The addiction and the bipolar are so intertwined. Addiction can cause bipolar like behavior, and bipolar people can turn to using to self medicate. It seems either one can cause the other.

The prevailing thing I'm hearing from the pros we are dealing with now seems to be that you have to deal with the addiction mainly, and try to treat the bipolar to help the recovery. There are lots of rehabs that deal with dual diagnosis. But from your other post it sounds like he probably isn't interested.

Lots of wisdom coming your way on your other post. Good luck.

[barb dwyer]

hi Callie -

there's quite a few 'dual diagnosis' threads - you might have to search in the history archive for them, but I remember seeing quite a few.

[Callie]

Thank you so much - things just keep spiraling out of control it seems.

[StayinAlive]

Originally Posted by bsfish

My understanding is dual diagnosis means addiction plus a disorder of some kind ie bi-polar. My AW is bipolar. The docs we have dealt with in the past just kept piling on the meds, until we found one she could really abuse (adderal) on top of everything she was already abusing. Now that she is in rehab, and dealing with docs that really know, they say you can't make an accurate dignosis while the addiction is active. It really takes 12-24r months clean to level our and see what is really underthere. The addiction and the bipolar are so intertwined. Addiction can cause bipolar like behavior, and bipolar people can turn to using to self medicate. It seems either one can cause the other.

The prevailing thing I'm hearing from the pros we are dealing with now seems to be that you have to deal with the addiction mainly, and try to treat the bipolar to help the recovery. There are lots of rehabs that deal with dual diagnosis. But from your other post it sounds like he probably isn't interested.

Lots of wisdom coming your way on your other post. Good luck.

Well said, this has been my personal experience although i am only at 9 months and med free. I still have to fight depression but i have learned that i have the tools to do so. But it wasn't easy coming off meds and being clean, some of the worst lows i ever had. Thankfully it was done while in a 60 day treatment by a Doctor who was a recovered addict. He is so valuable, needs to be cloned.

[barb dwyer]

hi Callie -

I didn't read either of these - jsut trying to help you find your way around alittle.

bsfish - I thought your post was quite insightful and well informed.
and I LOVe THE AVATAR!
I feel... like that looks ... .every day when I wake up.
That's barb ... before coffee.


here's what I found with almost no effort, Callie - hope there's something in here you can use:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...osis-mica.html ("Dual Diagnosis" or "MICA")

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...diagnosis.html (dual diagnosis)

[Callie]

My AH just came off of a 3 week "binge" (pain killers) racking up $2200+ in poker debt. He possibly has bipolar, but nobody can know due to the extensive, long term drug use (pain killers). I've drug him to dr. after dr. after dr. He starts out strong working with them, but then quickly dwindles. Starts messing with meds (stopping them, self adjusting or "adding to them"), missing appts. ect.

He did call and make an appt HIMSELF (huge) for the pdoc, but of course he can't get in for another month. Also, the referring counselor pretty much said I HAD to go with AH to the appt. in order for the new doc to have ALL of the pertinant info.

So here I am, yet again, the calm after the storm. It will be fine for a few weeks or even a little longer until the next storm starts brewing. USUALLY in the calm after the storm, I'm always hopeful thinking "FINALLY, we've gotten through to him. We can FINALLY start living a right life! What is so odd about this cycle is that I feel like I will help him, I"ll go to the appts., help research the meds, help monitor him ect. BUT I want him out of the house. IF he can do it on his own, great - we can talk then. But right now I just cannot take another letdown - believe me I've been down the doc road for the last 3+ years with him- I know how this cycle works.

For those of you that know about MI - how safe is it for him to get the proper medical treatment by himself. I know if he was an addict only the "let him fall" theory works. But what if it's an addict with bipolar - does the same theory hold true? He's starting to see he has something going on, but before he's always pretty much refused to believe he has any kind of MI. (And maybe he doesn't, it COULD be because of long term drug use - who knows)

Right now he's all over the place - very calm and in control one minute, erratic and nervous the next.

[historyteach]

Callie,

He's an adult.
He's responsible.

It sounds harsh, yes. But, the man who started this forum, Jon, is dual diagnosed too. He gave me good advice about my son, which I didn't listen to -- my son was *different*; was *younger*; started younger....you name any difference you can name and I named it! It doesn't matter! The fact of the matter is this:

If he wants to get clean and sober, he has to be willing to do whatever it takes.

It's that simple.
And *we* need to stop making every excuse in the book for them.
That is that simple too...

I'm sorry.
I wish it was easier. It's not.

But, then again, it's as easy as "Let go and let G*D."
Get to your nearest naranon/alanon meeting, and learn.
There's plenty of people who are willing to share their ESH, (experience, strength and hope), with you.

Please continue to let us know how it's going. We care...

Shalom!

[barb dwyer]

hi again callie -

I was glad to see your update post.

I hope you'll stop over at the 'friends and family' forums - I think there's a wealth of knowledgeable (I can't even spell it, apparently) support over there, and I am hoping you will take time to look after yourself during this time.

You know- there's a saying among folks in the rooms of AA - and that's a psychdoc won't even look at us the first year - because until we've fully sobered & healed up - we exibit every symptom of mental illness known to man!

ALthough it isn't 'hand on the bible' true - it's something to think about. I know my OWN first year of sobriety - was enough to rack up more medical bills than I've had in fifteen years.

Friends and Family is the place for support for you, I think.