Toxic people in your life.

[TiredMama]

Not too long ago, I posted a thread about my mother trying to force me into talking to my father. Well, she is finally understanding (again) that he isn't a part of my life and hasn't been for an extremely long time.

My sister was another who told me she didn't want him in her life either. She never really saw or even experienced everything that happened. We have a big age gap of 8 years almost.

To make a long story short, my father was verbally and physically abusive to me and my mother. He drugged me as a child and talked horrible about my husband along with his parents who "shunned" me from the family because my husband is Mexican. They spoke horrible about my daughter (who is Mexican-American).

I get this surprising email from my sister:

hey..dad said for you to call or e-mail him b/c he wants to talk to u before u have the baby?...i decided to talk to him b/c me not talking to him is stupid...we only have one life and i would rather talk to him and try to help him before it's too late and he is in an internal damnation..i know i would appreciate my kids still talking to me even though i screwed up..but no one's perfect..i'm on this earth to witness and talk about God..my father should be no exception!

Here is my response:

Yes we only have one life. God wants me to not have toxic people in it either. He wants me to see about my family first and foremost and not include people in their lives that will bring them down. My father brings me down everytime I even talk to him. He puts me in relapse mode and I honestly don't want to begin using again. I have my kids to think of.

I don't care what you do with him, it is your decision. Whatever you want.

What are your thoughts?

[nandm]

Direct, too the point, kept your boundaries, and took care of yourself. Good job! You can not control what choices your sister makes but you can control your choices. You did good not putting your sister down or trying to make her feel bad for her choice. You kept your response about your feelings rather than on what she should be doing or not be doing. I truly think you did good. But that is JMHO

[barb dwyer]

You have the right to set your boundaries and to stop people who hurt you from intruding into those boundaries.
All an abuser is going to do when they hear that -
when they realize they cannot destroy your boundary ...
is 'send an emissary' -
(a phrase *I* made up when working with battered women)
someone who they KNOW has the POWER of GUILT or SHAME ...
a mother, a family member, a minister ...
anyone they can manipulate into disrupting your life ...

into your newly established territory ...
then they can continue to disrupt your life ...
through that other person.

Either way - they (the abuser) is still interferring in your life - which is what they want.

Abuse continuees .. 'by proxy'.


And you don't *really* need someone like me ... to confirm that for you either.

Just every now and then. *hug*
That's okay - because on occasion -
I'm going to need to hear that as well.

But I remember you saying you've told your family members that you want nothing to do with this person ever again.

That ... should be enough for anyone.

[ksos]

TiredMama,

I think that your response was 100% on the mark. My parents still maintain a relationship with my mother's brother, who sexually abused me when I was 7 years old until 12 years old.

My mom insisted around three years ago that I should let bygones be bygones and join the family for the annual Thanksgiving dinner. Of course, her brother was going to be there.

I simply told her that she should have known that she, once again, chose her pediaphile brother over her son and flipped out on her again--this was the "event" that this monster was always invited to.

I only wish I had the wisdom to have known your words at that time.

[barb dwyer]

me too ksos !!!

sorry if I came on too strong - I got my own *issues* with the topic.
And continued to be hassled for years as well.

you did great, Tired, hope that came through!

[Easeful]

TiredMama I think you did well. Like your sister I want my children and the ones I've raised to continue to speak to me also. My plan to accomplish that is by treating them with love and respect for their entire lives. Subjecting myself the the continued abuse from the toxic man who is my father will in no way help me or anyone else.

Prayers for you. It is a difficult road, but we owe ourselves and our children the safest world we can create.

[TiredMama]

Thanks to all of you!

I have gotten some responses from her. She has obviously not grasped the point, at all. That saddens me so much.

This is her response to me:

Well honestly God is frist, then your family, but I don't know what you meant by "see about my family first." God doesn't want you to have negative people in your life but if somehow I could help dad then he wouldn't be how he is anymore..If no one helps him then it's someone's fault just as much as his that they didn't help him AT ALL.. It's the phrase "their blood on your hands" b/c I do know that what he's doing is wrong and soooo I feel that I do need to help him..So basically I do not want my father's blood on my hands come judgment day..i would have no excuse for why i could not help him..im telling you this b/c God put it on my heart to tell you and that you should know how I feel..

And mine back...:

God told me to see about my family first. We could go back and forth about this Victoria. I know I am not Christian, just spiritual because I choose to be this way. You live you way you want and I will the way I want. Dad isn't your responsibility, you are responsible for yourself. I HAVE read this.

I just can't believe you are telling me any of this. I thought you respected my decision as I respect yours. I will not be told my relationship with God isn't the "right" one.

I am just..tired guys. Really tired. I feel I have to defend every little thing. For another thread, I will tell you have to have to be on the defense for my children around my aunt and how she is in the brink of not being around us at all with her racial slurs and remarks.

[nandm]

(((((((tired)))))))))))))))
I have a better understanding of your name now. That is a lot to deal with. You are doing an awesome job of it though from what I see. Your responses are not judgemental, just factual about your feelings. I find it ironic that many times people will pull phrases out of the Bible and use them in a different context than they were written in to justify any action they choose even judging others. Ironically, the Bible states, "Judge not least you be Judged." None of us are perfect and therefor have no room to judge others actions. Don't allow these things to discourage you. One of the reasons I do not go back to the religion of my childhood is the amount of judgement that is present. I am happier and feel closer to my Higher Power staying away from the religious church setting and believing and trusting in the matter that best suits me. Take care and keep up the good work

[TiredMama]

Originally Posted by nandm

(((((((tired)))))))))))))))
I have a better understanding of your name now. That is a lot to deal with. You are doing an awesome job of it though from what I see. Your responses are not judgemental, just factual about your feelings. I find it ironic that many times people will pull phrases out of the Bible and use them in a different context than they were written in to justify any action they choose even judging others. Ironically, the Bible states, "Judge not least you be Judged." None of us are perfect and therefor have no room to judge others actions. Don't allow these things to discourage you. One of the reasons I do not go back to the religion of my childhood is the amount of judgement that is present. I am happier and feel closer to my Higher Power staying away from the religious church setting and believing and trusting in the matter that best suits me. Take care and keep up the good work

Thanks so much for your kind words and coming back to my thread. :ghug

I just thought it be a more appropriate place to put my experiences because I know that most of you have been through a lot of the same thing.

The support is tremendous and I appreciate this more than words can say, really.

Love you guys!!:ghug

[hippyhippy]

Hey mama,

I am getting tired and meds are beginning to make me sleepy, but I did not want to go by without saying, I believe you have done everything as it should have been done. By your family. You were abused by this man and tormented and you should not have to endure guilt trips about not seeing him.
I don't see myself as a christian, but I believe we should live a good life. You are doing that and you are right that your relationship with god should not be modelled on that of your sister.

You do well hun.

Hippy

[TiredMama]

Thanks hippy.

This is part of the reason I have trouble with organized religion. Please no one take offense because it if works for you, then I am happy for you. But it seems that I have had to defend myself more so than anything else. She is only 19 and I am almost 27 years old. I have a few more life experiences under my belt than she does. She never experienced anything evenly remotely close.

I am also not saying that it was right that I partied all the time in high school, had friends, partied in college, used drugs etc. I am not saying that those were good choices at all, but I have experienced all of these things that she never did. She got married at 18 to a guy that controls her every move. I NEVER chastise her for her choice of marrying so young and being so sheltered. Not to mention this guy has says he is a "Christian" yet he has slapped her before and has a bad temper.

Never not one time have I questioned her life choices. How dare she question mine.

[historyteach]

(((Tired Mama)))

First, I'm sorry I missed this till now. It's an important thread, because you model, very well, how to set your boundaries and stick to them. You've detached from your abusive past, and that is how it should be, for you, at this time.

As far as your sister goes, you may want to consider ignoring any future emails that continue to question your decision. You've explained to her what it is and why it is so. That is *more* than she is entitled to, and more than she needs to know. Every time you answer, at this point, she thinks she is winning a point, and it is clearly upsetting you. You need not get upset over *her* decisions. Ignore it. It's a psychological principal called "extinction." She will stop the behavior because it won't get a response.

If and when she emails something appropriate, then, write back with a similar one. Positive reinforcement. It will increase the odds of her continuing to stay on the correct focus, and *away* from pushing your dad down your throat.

Of course, these are just my opinions. But, I do hate to see you get upset over her behaviors. She's acting boorish, and you don't deserve it!

Shalom!

[TiredMama]

Thanks Teach. I will do this. It sounds like the only feasible thing at this time! Did I mention I was having a baby in 10 days? Yes. She knows this too.

I will ignore her emails because I cannot handle this negative energy. Not at all. She is so much younger than me and I know that isn't an "excuse" not to listen to anyone, but she has no experience in life. She got married to this guy that tells her how to eat, sleep, use the bathroom etc. He even models her in a way that she decides on her political preferences based on his. I never not one time said anything to her, I just always tried to tell her to be herself and her own person. Never did I say anything specific like him. He is also my age if that matters in this point.

Thanks everyone because I feel more direction now on how to deal with this.

[TiredMama]

I just wanted to share the last and final email, this is from her to me:

Sent: Sun 3/30/08 7:11 PM
To: ***********
I'm not telling anything to you to try and change your ways..I just wanted to tell you what I felt about it b/c I thought you would care..You tell me what you are thinking all the time so I'm telling you what I think..and if I sat here and thought that lost people were not my responsibility then that is just being selfish..and there is no right or wrong relationship with God..You either have a relationship that in such a way you try your best to be a reflection of God or you're not..

This is from me to her, the FINAL one:

Sent: Sun 3/30/08 7:36 PM
To: ***********************
I seem to recall Mom telling me about one of Freddie's sermons about something similar to this. About how you cannot be held responsible for the actions of others or how they live their life, because you have to live your own. This regarding to the ones in your life that you "feel" responsible for.

No you are not coming out and "telling" me how to feel, but you are accenuating that how you feel the is the right way. I think in these situations there are no right or wrong ways. I was talking to Mom about dad and how you and I's relationship is completely different with him. There are things you don't know that have gone on and things he has said about the both of us and I'd prefer you to not know. I never told you a lot of things and neither has mom because it would only cause more anguish. I decided a long time ago he is not to be a part of my life. I used to see a therapist, a Christian one to be exact in Auburn, and he told me that it would be best to distance myself from my father. Of course, I used to blame dad for all of the anguish I suffered, but then I got over that and forgave him. The anger I expressed the day all of you came over was not towards dad, but was towards mom because she refused to accept my decision of distance. I have been talking with her on and off about this and she now has come to conclusion about my decision.
He isn't my responsibility. He is grown man and he is the only one that will be "judged" come judgement day on the things he has done. Not you. Not me. No one but him.

Mom told me that God has two different paths for you and I and how we have our relationships with dad. They are not going to be the same. They can't be. Our experiences with him are like night and day. I placed my experiences with him inside of a box and threw away the key. Old wounds aren't to be opened but should be visible so they can mend. I am still working on mending. The mending doesn't include him.

I want you to know that I respect your decision to have a relationship with him. If it is what you feel is the right then, then you should do it.

....

This little part was accidently left out and I resent to her:
Sent: Sun 3/30/08 7:42 PM
To: **********************

This:

You either have a relationship that in such a way you try your best to be a reflection of God or you're not..

I guess in your eyes, that I am not a reflection of God. That statement is not very enlightening, in the least. I am sorry you feel this way. Thank you for your support and for your support of my decision. Maybe one day when you are older you will understand things from someone that is almost 8 years older than yourself. <--- that is in regards to my life experience and relationships, not you being young, so please don't throw that into a context that I am saying you are not mature

[vetver]

Thank you for this post!!~!!!!!!!

I have been letting the toxic people into my life. I didn't for a long time, now I have for a long time, and I've been very sick.
I know that I cannot deal with them right now and get better - I have been struggling with some things the past few years and they bring me down.

Sick people have NO ability to respect any boundaries set for them.
They do not see their part in things
They blame and shame
My dry-drunk sister, and wet-drunk mother have done more damage
and it's time for it to stop

Tonight my sister did it again
lured me in with questions and pretend caring
I bite, and then she gets annoyed and switches and starts bashing me
"just like our mother" she has become a clone
I exit

but what's frustrating is that I get lured back in
I want to STOP having ANY relationship with her!!!
for GOOD

she will not change unless and until she gets help
she doesn't get help
so dealing with her is like walking through a landmine field


thank you again

[vetver]

Oh boy
I just read the last two
I'd like to encourage you not to participate AT ALL AT ALL AT ALL AT ALL
restate the boundary
which is usually ONE SENTENCE

and that is all you have to do.

(hope I dont offend with being so direct, but you are having a baby.
So stop participating in this crap)


also wow I get confused about the "who God wants me to be" vs. being "about self" and setting a boundary. If I am truly an agent of God and self is not there... why do I care how they act? But I am just not there yet. I tried to be for a long time.

There is no way to avoid the abuse. Even if I stay silent while being attacked, I get attacked for that. The only option is to try to get off the phone, then you get yelled at for that. sigh. tough.

[TiredMama]

It's finished. After the last statement, she gave a cop-out "I'm dropping it" response. Since, she has posted numerous myspace bulletins and blogs about being saved and how God's wants us to live.

She is still so young and has so much to experience in life.

Thank you all for your responses. I have let it go!

[historyteach]

Tired mama;

Glad you're able to let this one go.
You've got so much more to look forward to, now, don't you?

A lil one on the way in just a few day!!!
Congratulations, Mama!!!

Let us know how you're doing and if it's a boy or a girl when the time comes.
Take good care of yourself. Right now, that's ALL that matters.

Shalom!

[TiredMama]

The baby is going to be a girl and I am due to have the c section in exactly 8 days!! /faint

Thanks

[barb dwyer]

I'm such a militant on the topic,
I'm only gonna say

{{{{{{{{Tired}}}}}}}}

Get yer pink booties ready, then and *ignore* the rest.
You're doing great - and much nicer than *I* had to become to get anyone to listen.

WooHOO!!!
Countdown to baby - I didn't know that part!!!!