Bad med Reaction

[Lobo]

I am just shaking right now and can't get myself to calm down. Last night around 11:30 my RAD took her new meds that her pdoc started her on yesterday. An unbelievable amount of medication as far as I'm concerned.
She has her on Topomax, Lithium, Seroquil, Trazadone and Clonopin as needed. I weigh a lot more than her and if I took all of that I would be flat.
So, she took the meds and an hour later she passed out on the kitchen floor. She came to and passed out two more times. She couldn't even stand up or talk without slurring her words. I called 911 when she hit the floor. Ambulance came, took her to the ER. They did a cat scan of her brain for injury because she hit her head when she fell. I can't believe and the ER docs couldn't believe she was on all of that medicine. They feel she is being over medicated because they didn't find anything wrong.

What do you guys think? Has anyone has this experience passing out from these meds.?

I'm so worried............Lo

[barb dwyer]

{{{{Lo}}}}

How terrifying for you!

That's a LOT of stuff.

First - I'm no dctor. I don't even know what half that stuff is. But my next door neighbor ... would come over after meetings and take her colonopin and within half an hour it was nighty night time.
And that was JUST ... colonopin.
*I* am having to report dailiy to my doc because *I* have been reacting ABnormally to TOPAMAX ... with anxiety ... apparently ... even backed up by posters here - it's ... a STABILIZER .. it's elevated MY mood... oh wow.
Topamax is used for a good many things, however, it's been around forever. From headaches to seizures.

BUt ... wow.

I hope you'll post when You get back from the hospital and let us know what's going on with your ..RAD...? I'm sorry - I don't know what that is. Means.

*prayers*

[Lobo]

Thanks Barb,
I'll keep you posted. My RAD is going to call her pdoc today and let her know what happened. I hope she calls, I can't call for her because they won't talk to me because she is 26.

[barb dwyer]

I'm sorry - but it's killing me - what *is* a RAD?

I'm thinking up all kinds of things.

Scary no matter what the realtionship.
Sounds like quite a cocktail.
I'm glad they'll get it sorted out.

I'll continue the prayers.

[Lobo]

Barb, I know what you mean. Some of these abbreviations just baffle me too. RAD means Recovering Addict Daughter. I always posted on Friends and Family of Substance Abuse Forum. My daughter since then went into recovery and was doing quite well. She has been clean for 8 months now. During this process the pdocs started treating her for bi polar disorder. The docs claim she was self medicating with drugs instead of getting into proper treatment. She was doing okay, I thought with the dosage of meds that she was taking. Yesterday the pdoc increased all of her meds and it is just too much for someone her size. She is petite and doesn't weigh a lot.
I asked her what she is going to do and she doesn't like to discuss her meds with me. I worry a lot and don't like her taking all of these pills. I understand if it is necessary but I think some of these docs tend to overmedicate. She wants to take control of her own situation and wants me to stay out of it. I told her I just don't want to watch her hit the floor again. I am still shakey today from that whole thing.

Thanks for your replys Barb...........Lo

[barb dwyer]

Thank you for the deifinition.

I had had come to the conclusion it might be a daughter.

wow.

are you in alanon? or something you can talk to someone as well? this has to be hard on you also ... I know what it is to let a child go, knowing they're addicted.
it's unspeakable.
but do YOU have someone... handy?
I mean, other than us?
this strikes me as an over coffee thing.
at least an over decaff, thing.

being an alcoholic - they might be 25 in years ... but I know we're not necessarily that ... in our heads. we're like arabian horses... we don't necessarily mature mentally like we do physically in addiction and alcoholism. like others our age I mean.

only an alcohlic can come up with such a romanticized self - description for something so deadly, trust me.

point is - I don't think you're 'wrong' to be worrying, it's just that I've nothing else 'wise' or particularly 'relieving' to offer right now. Only the hope that her practitioners will correct the doseage immediately and all will be well soon.

[TiredMama]

Oh my. I know that had to have been scary!! While I am not a doctor either, it is quite a lot of meds. I can tell you that my aunt (somewhere else I posted this) is on a LOT of meds including: trazadone, zoloft, ambien, xanax, lamactil, and soma. She passed out three times already on these meds (in a public restroom) and has even been incontienent. She refuses to have the meds adjusted or even tell the doc about her problem.

I am glad you were there with her last night. I hope she feels a little better today.

[Easeful]

For what it's worth, my 6'3", 125 lb son is taking propananol, zyprexa, lithium, wellbutrin and clonopine. I think it's a ridiculous # of chemicals to combine inside one small body, but so far (just one week out) it seems to be working.

[historyteach]

(((Lobo))))

I'm so sorry you and your daughter had to experience that.
Remember, your daughter's doc cannot talk to her, but, *you* can talk to the doc!!! So tell him/her what happened!!!

I know that years ago, I was stoned out of my gourd. It *does* happen. And we have to be careful and be responsible for ourselves. In the end, it is *our* lives.

You both remain in my prayers. :

Shalom!

[Lobo]

Tired, Ease, Teach,

Thank you ladies for your replies. Things have calmed down. She is very tired today. I recommend that she take half of the doese that she was given. I hope she takes my advice. She has a therapy app. in the morning. She is shook up about what happened.

Ease, your son sounds as medicated as my daughter. Wow, glad it's working out for him.

Lo

[TiredMama]

I hope her appt goes well and keep us updated on her progress

[serenityqueen]

Lobo, I can't even imagine how scarry that was for you. I have one child, 19 year old son, who is a normie. I hate that feeling of helplessness and all when something happens to him, even when he gets a running nose. It's a Mommy thing I guess. Anyway, I'm concerned with the Dr. giving her all that crap, knowing she's in Recovery (isn't she)

God Bless and keep us informed
Judy

[pedagogue]

*Not Medical Advice*

Ack!

A conversation with the pdoc is definitely a good idea. At a casual glance, that seems like a lot of meds doing similar things, though maybe they have a rationale for using that combination. Hopefully the doc isn't a +1'er...."one of this, one of that", and never taking things off.

Klonopin for a recovering addict....doh! Is she withdrawing from something like alcohol?

Originally Posted by Easeful

For what it's worth, my 6'3", 125 lb son is taking propananol, zyprexa, lithium, wellbutrin and clonopine. I think it's a ridiculous # of chemicals to combine inside one small body, but so far (just one week out) it seems to be working.

The # of meds can be deceiving, as sometimes one will be used to manage to side effects of another, and/or the combination has shown to work better, etc. (Not commenting on that particular combination, just some general thoughts). It is sort of along the same lines as taking 1000mg of one thing, and 1mg of something else....they may be equivalent in their effect, the latter just happens to be 1000x more potent than the other med.

I always come from the camp of, "try 1 before 2 or 3", though often it takes a few go arounds to find the right combination.

[TiredMama]

Peda--

I was thinking the same thing about the klonopin. Doesn't sound too good to me either.

[nandm]

Originally Posted by TiredMama

Peda--

I was thinking the same thing about the klonopin. Doesn't sound too good to me either.

I am a recovering alcoholic with 7 years sobriety. I also have a prescription for klonopin for an anxiety disorder related to PTSD. While I agree that klonopin is not a drug for everyone as it does have some strong addictive properties it is quite beneficial to some, myself included. I am very careful with it and only take it when it is absolutely necessary. Before being prescribed it there were many times I could not leave my house, or be around groups larger than 2 to 3 people and that left me quit isolated. It has been a miracle for me to not have the choking life stealing anxiety thanks to the medication. Unless someone has experienced it one can not grasp how severe and overpowering it can be. While working as a paramedic, 12 years, and a nurse, 20 years, I never understood anxiety. I thought that the people experiencing it just needed to get over it or they were faking it for attention. I have learned that the last thing I want when I am experiencing anxiety is attention and get over it is just not an option. I also go to therapy with a specialist in PTSD disorders. It is my hope that one day I will be able to function without the need for the Klonopin but until that day I will be grateful for the medication.

[St_Kurt]

These are psychiatric meds so this is totally out of my area.

I'm not sure I'd adjust the dosages on your daughters medications without consulting a doctor first. Too little can be as bad as too much. Not to mention it might not be all the dosages that are a problem. Pharmacology and common sense don't necessarily go hand and hand and this is like a ... very complex pharmacological web the doctor has woven; it's not something to play around with lightly.

Passing out of the floor would seem like an indication of something not right however, so I hope you/she are able to get some answers from a physician soon.

The following is not medical advice: I did look up contraindications and cross-reactions in my human medical textbook for the cocktail described (Topomax, Lithium, Seroquil, Trazadone and Klonopin) out of pure curiosity. Incredibly none of the drugs interact unfavorably AND between the five of them, they affect every major neurotransmitter in the brain! (Several of them are synergists - ie. they enhance each other, while at the same time, downplaying the side effects of another.) Dosages, appropriateness, etc aside (for these are things I can't judge), I'm really impressed; that doctor knows her pharmacology! Yet another reason to leave the prescribing to them.

I hope your daughter's recovery continues to go well and that she's feeling better soon,
~SK

[TiredMama]

Originally Posted by nandm

I am a recovering alcoholic with 7 years sobriety. I also have a prescription for klonopin for an anxiety disorder related to PTSD. While I agree that klonopin is not a drug for everyone as it does have some strong addictive properties it is quite beneficial to some, myself included. I am very careful with it and only take it when it is absolutely necessary. Before being prescribed it there were many times I could not leave my house, or be around groups larger than 2 to 3 people and that left me quit isolated. It has been a miracle for me to not have the choking life stealing anxiety thanks to the medication. Unless someone has experienced it one can not grasp how severe and overpowering it can be. While working as a paramedic, 12 years, and a nurse, 20 years, I never understood anxiety. I thought that the people experiencing it just needed to get over it or they were faking it for attention. I have learned that the last thing I want when I am experiencing anxiety is attention and get over it is just not an option. I also go to therapy with a specialist in PTSD disorders. It is my hope that one day I will be able to function without the need for the Klonopin but until that day I will be grateful for the medication.

Sorry if that comment sounded so directed towards just anybody having to take klonopin. I am just a little irritated right now about something relating to using benzos and I didn't mean for that to sound the way it did.

Apologies.

[nandm]

Originally Posted by TiredMama

Sorry if that comment sounded so directed towards just anybody having to take klonopin. I am just a little irritated right now about something relating to using benzos and I didn't mean for that to sound the way it did.

Apologies.

No problem. You are dealing with a lot right now. I did not take it personally. I just try to make sure that both sides of a med can be seen. I do believe that while there are many people who benefit from certain meds there are people who should not be taking those meds as they wind up not working as they should in their system. My biggest concern was there was a post that indicated someone with an addiction problem should not be prescribed klonopin. I just wanted to clarify that the med can be approprate for someone with and addiction problem as long as taken as prescribed and monitored by a medical professional.

I sincerely hope you are able to find what works for your daughter. I went through something similar although not as severe with my oldest daughter. She was put on Zoloft for depression at the age of 16. She became manic and even when she was taken off the medication she started cutting on herself. It was a very frightening time. I am fortunate that she finally was able to get through it and today leads a normal healthy, happy, productive life.

[TiredMama]

Originally Posted by nandm

No problem. You are dealing with a lot right now. I did not take it personally. I just try to make sure that both sides of a med can be seen. I do believe that while there are many people who benefit from certain meds there are people who should not be taking those meds as they wind up not working as they should in their system. My biggest concern was there was a post that indicated someone with an addiction problem should not be prescribed klonopin. I just wanted to clarify that the med can be approprate for someone with and addiction problem as long as taken as prescribed and monitored by a medical professional.

As I understand that about being under medical care, what irritates me more is someone else not medically trained telling the other to take these kinds of meds because it "worked" for them. That is what bothers me here.

Sorry for derailing this thread guys!

[pedagogue]

Originally Posted by St_Kurt

Pharmacology and common sense don't necessarily go hand and hand and this is like a ... very complex pharmacological web the doctor has woven; it's not something to play around with lightly.

Very true. Pharmacology as a whole is complex, and psychotropics are even trickier because some of the actions of them are still not completely understood. This is why it is really important to work with someone who is very familiar with the area you need. For instance, there are people who specialize treating kids, others that work with recovering addicts, etc. It isn't always possible, but definitely a nice bonus.

[Lee55]

My son was recently prescribed Geodon 60mg twice a day. Effexor XR 75mg. once a day. Klonopin 2mg. twice a day. Lamictal starter kit. Ambien CR 12.5 mg. at night. I thought this was a lot but trusted the pdoc knew best.

My son has bipolar and panic disorder. He's also an addict and has been smoking pot for his BP. He also drinks beer, he's 22. I was hoping once on meds he would not self medicate. I was very clear with the pdoc that my son had 2 bad experiences when prescribed klonopin n the past, he abused them and went into withdrawal and a manic state and had to be hospitalized.. but the pdoc assured me my son should trust him and he has to trust my son. The pdoc also said 2mg. klonopin was a low does and I checked and that's the highest!

The first night on his meds he only took the klonopin and geodon and he could hardly talk and he vomited. The next day it was like waking a sleep giant...he started to go out with his old drug friends and he went through 60 pills of klonopin in 1 week (today). I'm sure his friends were taking them too. I called his pdoc and he wants to see him today. I warned this pdoc about him taking klonopin but he said he has to trust my son. Well, can anyone who's an addict be trusted when a drug like klonopin wakes up their addiction?? Isn't that like telling a recovering alcoholic to only have two drinks a day and expect them to stick to it? This is the 3rd time a pdoc gave him klonopin and he went off the deep end and two times was when I told them about his abuse and they gave it anyway! Now, I feel responsible for taking him to this pdoc, telling my son he needs meds for his BP to get well!

He is going into withdrawals now and I don't know what will happen to him. The pdoc told me if my son abused the klonopin he would not be his doctor. So he may drop my son and leave him in this state of withdrawal.. but isn't he responsible at all?! Why don't these pdocs ever take any responsibility for giving them the drug in the first place! You pay $250 for 30 minutes of their time to evaluate you, they give you all those meds and if you need help from those meds, they act like it's your fault! Yes, my son is at fault too but he's the one with bipolar and addiciton who needed the doctor's help, not to be worse off.

My son doesn't live with me, he lives alone. I told my son he needs to go to rehab, says he will next week! I said he's on his own unless he wants to get help.

Do any of you think a pdoc should not prescribe addictive meds when they have already had a bad history with them? Thanks for any comments.

Lee55

[Done_With_It]

Some of these doctors make me sick. Can he get a new doctor? I've had doctors hand me meds like they were candy, and then cut me off of them overnight for no reason other than it was a new doctor switching places. It is dangerous. I feel for you and your son.
If it were me I would go to a new doctor or the ER.

I'm sorry you are going through this.
You may want to also start your own thread, it may get more responses.
Welcome to SR

[historyteach]

I agree; it would be best to start your own thread.
This one is old, and you will get lost in it.

Also, that doctor is irresponsible.
I would consider reporting him.
And definately get your son to a doctor that specializes in addiction!

Wishing you the best.

Shalom!

[pedagogue]

Originally Posted by Done-With-It

I've had doctors hand me meds like they were candy, and then cut me off of them overnight for no reason other than it was a new doctor switching places.

That can definitely be a problem. Some docs have a preference for certain meds, and/or are more comfortable with something else. I also know places like a V.A. hospital may be limited with what they will offer/cover....so if it isn't on their formulary list, they won't cover it. This becomes a problem with certain name brand meds that are too $$$ for the V.A. to cover, so they switch to something else. Many times a generic can work as well, though other times it isn't. Establishing a med is needed can be tough, so that is luck of the draw sometimes. The good news is that many times a name brand is used first by a doctor ("free" samples and all), when a much less expensive but equally effective generic can be used. Many good meds are skipped over because they are "old" and/or arent' available via free sample....not because they aren't as effective or have more side effects.