I think I may not be BP after all....

[hippyhippy]

I am having a problem with my diagnoses of BP and hoping some of you more experienced folk may be able to help me.

Following a very stressful time in my life and an anxiety depression, I began to suffer badly from mood swings. I had always had mood swings as long as I can remember, but they just became more pronounced.

I began to behave way out of character and after a rage I drove off round the country obsessed with getting to somewhere that had no significance to me at all but was very remote. This was a rather surreal experience but I was still mostly in touch with reality. I did something similar again a few months later and slept in my car.(very out of character) Other than my mood swings that were not extreme, it is on the basis of these two rages and some very stupid behaviours (all done with an element of choice, I knew what I was doing: I was trying to let the world know how unhappy I was) that my diagnoses of bi polar affective mood disorder was made.Pdoc said my rages were a 'high' I say they were bad behaviour.

Dx of depression I have no problem with. Even deep depression. I would say I have also been out of touch with reality on a few occasions. I now take my meds every night (but I forget almost every morning...oops), mood stabilisers (sodium valproate), anti psychotics (quetiapine)and anti depressants (mirtazepine). I feel quite good this week (not elevated, just good but that is a blooming elevation on last week!), but that is this week. Last week I was quite deep in depression and wouldn't move my backside off the couch unless I had to.

My problem with dx is....where is the highs? Two rages in a year and I am BP? I don't really overspend, occassionally I will be a bit less cautious. I don't get a high libido, it remains constantly low. I don't have religious experiences, I don't sleep little (I did when not on meds admittedly but lack of sleep is part of depression too) all I can see in me of a high is my rages (not had a white rage since last one in July) and racing thoughts. My thoughts do tend to be very fast when I am not on anti psychotics and I do have all sort of weird and fanciful ideas (like I am going to get a train to somewhere starting with A and not stop until I get on one for every letter of the alphabet, not ending my journey until Z....but I didn't do it...I just planned it) but they usually tend to be more of a self destructive manner. (like planning self harm, even if I am not feeling bad)

I think I have just had a tough time and made some very duff decisions. I am now ready to knuckle down and behave myself but if I am not BP then I don't want the implications it carries for me. I have pdoc tomorrow and I am going to try to convince him. I also have probs with the meds. Part of me wants to stop taking them to 'prove' whether pdoc or me is right or not.

Any thoughts on what I am saying are appreciated.

Hippy

[Easeful]

Hi Hippy,

I'm not the voice of experience that you need, as this is all still very new to me.

I do know that it's apparently a "part of the illness" to deny the condition. At least that's what they're telling us. On the other hand, if you accuse Great Aunt Tildy of being a sot, and GreatAunt Tildy knowing that a drop of alcohol has never crossed her lips denies it vigirously......can you then use the fact that denial is a symptom of alcoholism as further "proof" of her condition?

My h and I attended a family education session last night and listened closely to the therapist's description of the symptoms of bi-polar, ie mood swings, poor decision making, excessive sleeping or staying up all hours, excessive spending...... I raised my hand and asked exactly how you differentiate those symptoms from "normal" teenage behavior. The answer was singularly unenlightening.

So our plan is to go slow. Continue to learn. Document behaviors. And try not to make any sudden radical changes either in our son's care or in his environment.

[Dr. Snow]

Originally Posted by hippyhippy

My problem with dx is....where is the highs? Two rages in a year and I am BP? I don't really overspend, occassionally I will be a bit less cautious. I don't get a high libido, it remains constantly low. I don't have religious experiences, I don't sleep little (I did when not on meds admittedly but lack of sleep is part of depression too) all I can see in me of a high is my rages (not had a white rage since last one in July) and racing thoughts. My thoughts do tend to be very fast when I am not on anti psychotics and I do have all sort of weird and fanciful ideas (like I am going to get a train to somewhere starting with A and not stop until I get on one for every letter of the alphabet, not ending my journey until Z....but I didn't do it...I just planned it) but they usually tend to be more of a self destructive manner. (like planning self harm, even if I am not feeling bad)

Hippy, my thoughts are that the "highs" of BP consist not only of rages, but also irritability (anger) and anxiety.

Do you still experience irritability and anxiety? How long have you been on medication? Maybe the reason why you've only had 2 rages in the past year is because your meds are working for you, which would indicate that you are BP. You did say your mood swings were getting more pronounced, right? Mine were/are too. Maybe you got on the right medication before it got really bad.

By the way, I don't overspend or do any of the other things either. I can relate to many of the other things you said as well. If your doctor has misdiagnosed you, then my doc has misdiagnosed me too, which I strongly doubt.

But you seem to be doing well, Hippy--as good or better than the rest of us. I didn't want to accept my diagnosis either. When he told me, the first thing I thought was, "You're wrong--you must've made a mistake. You haven't even talked to me long enough to make a diagnosis." Like you, I was always painfully aware of the prolonged, severe depression but the symptoms of hypomania totally caught me by surprise.

My anxiety has slowly developed into a lot of irritability and anger, and that has now evolved into these rages where I feel like hurting somebody, or myself, or both. I have an appointment with my psych in a couple of weeks. So, I think I understand what you said about planning self-harm, and hope your medication and therapy have helped with that. It sounds like they have.

Anyway, I thought I'd chime in since nobody else had done so at the time I started typing all of this. Maybe you haven't gone to bed already...

[GailJ]

With my ex the highs could be anything rage, boredom, depression, anxiety, even happiness,
I think they should reword the term as emotional peaks far out the socially accepted norm. The manic episodes and rapid cycling usually brings on the white rages, delusions, paranoia, and obsessive compusions to do what one normally would never do.

Simply the highs are extended periods of a certain emotion which can change/swing abrubtly and without warning or reason into another extended period of another emotion. One p-doc explained it to me that my ex when rapid cycling his brain was processing ten times faster than a normal brain. Could last hours, days, weeks, even months, there is no way to predict when an episode will hit or for how long it will last.

To him (my ex) it was normal, and the rest of the world was screwed up. to the rest, his family, friends and employers, it was and still is just plain frightening and dangerous for him and those closest to him.

He (my ex still denies his BP) thinks he has only ever had one manic episode, yet I lived through at least four severe episodes with him and he has had at least three more since I divorced him 15yrs ago. He is in the middle of one right now. Very paranoid and seeing conspiracies and spys everywhere, and was suicidal within the past two weeks. It scares me as one of my sons still lives with him and he is capable of being very violent and abusive verbally and pysically when in an episode. My son knows my door is open if he needs it. Anyway thats off point and just letting you know my two cents worth.

If you are finally feeling better hippy maybe the meds are doing their job finally, one thing many of us do is get off the meds as soon as we feel better. Usually in extream depression and BP it will inevitably lead to a relapse to get off to quickly. Stick with them Hippy and focus on getting back into a healthy lifestyle. It took a long time for you to find meds that do work for you. Even if it's a pain in the but remembering to take them and on time.

You sound really good and I'm glad to see it in your post. Hang in there kiddo and let us know how it goes.

[shutterbug]

sorry hon...no doubt in "my mind" you are bp.....bpII....we don't really have the kind of highs i believe you are thinking of. But ...you actually could even be bpI, believe it or not.

i'm barely awake at the moment or else i'd dive more into this topic ...per my usual respose...sorry....it's been a long couple days of me dealing with my neurosis and life issues.

i will try my best to come back here later, but is there a reason why you seem to have a sort of 'hang' up about being labeled bp?

Jenna

[historyteach]

Bipolar Disorder Categories
Bipolar disorder is classified according to the pattern and severity of the symptoms as bipolar disorder I, bipolar disorder II, or cyclothymic disorder. Patients with one type may develop another. Nevertheless, they are distinct enough to merit separate classifications, and some experts believe these conditions are actually separate disorders with different biologic factors that account for their differences.

Bipolar Disorder I. Bipolar disorder I is characterized by at least one manic episode, with or without major depression. In 60 - 70% of cases, manic episodes precede or follow depressive episodes in a regular pattern. Episodes are more acute and severe than in the other two categories.

Without treatment, patients average four episodes of dysregulated mood each year. With mania, either euphoria or irritability may mark the phase. In addition, there are significant negative effects (such as sexual recklessness, excessive and impulsive shopping, and sudden traveling) on a patient's social life, performance at work, or both. Untreated mania lasts at least a week, and it can last for months. Typically, depressive episodes tend to last 6 - 12 months, if left untreated.

Bipolar Disorder II and Hypomania. Bipolar disorder II is characterized by predominantly depressive symptoms with occasional episodes of hypomania. Hypomania is similar to mania, but the symptoms (typically euphoria) are less severe and do not last as long.

Patients do not experience manic or mixed episodes, and most return to fully functional levels between episodes. However, bipolar II patients have a more chronic course, significantly more depressive episodes, and shorter periods of being well between episodes than patients with type I have. It is highly associated with the risk for suicide.

Cyclothymic Disorder. While cyclothymic disorder is not as severe as either bipolar disorder II or I, the condition is more chronic. Hypomanic symptoms tend toward irritability as compared to the more euphoric symptoms of bipolar II. (One report, in fact, referred to these patients as having "darker" natures while bipolar II patients were "sunnier.")

The disorder lasts at least 2 years, with single episodes persisting for more than 2 months. Cyclothymic disorder may be a precursor to full-blown bipolar disorder in some people or it may continue as a low-grade chronic condition.

Bipolar DisorderBackground - Bipolar Disorder Health Information - NY Times Health

You may find the information in this well researched article very helpful. I found it very enlightening.

Shalom!

[hippyhippy]

Thanks for replies. A lot of interesting stuff in there. I can see how the dx was made with the behaviours that I have shown.

I did go to pdoc today and far from being able to make him look at his dx, he wants to see me in a week as he thinks I am too high! I did admittedly sit and giggle through our consultation which was rather bizarre, but I got a joke in my head that involved him and I couldn't tell him as I knew he would not find it as funny as me but that just served to make the whole situation funnier for me.
Oh well, I have to accept BP is part of me eh?

Hippy

[Dr. Snow]

Originally Posted by hippyhippy

I did admittedly sit and giggle through our consultation which was rather bizarre, but I got a joke in my head that involved him and I couldn't tell him as I knew he would not find it as funny as me but that just served to make the whole situation funnier for me.

Well, that almost made me giggle! Now we're curious to know what the joke was.

Speaking of jokes and being too high, my doc seems very tweaked every time I see him, which has got me wondering if a psychiatrist can legally write him/herself a prescription. Anybody know? I guess that would be called "self-medicating," but it could explain why most shrinks need to see a shrink themselves.

Did somebody say this already?

[pedagogue]

Originally Posted by Dr. Snow

Speaking of jokes and being too high, my doc seems very tweaked every time I see him, which has got me wondering if a psychiatrist can legally write him/herself a prescription. Anybody know? I guess that would be called "self-medicating," but it could explain why most shrinks need to see a shrink themselves.

They aren't suppose to, but it may happen on occasion or in a crunch. If the pharmacist flags it, especially if it becomes a problem and/or with particular types of meds, then it can be a real issue. Docs often write scripts for each other, but a proper eval should be done as script shopping within the medical community can get very messy very quickly.

[hippyhippy]

Well, that almost made me giggle! Now we're curious to know what the joke was.

Honest, you wouldn't get it, it is so silly it is unbelievable.
Here goes.....
A new psychiatric service is being opened up in my area and Prince Charles the Prince of Wales is there to officially open it. Doctor X (my doc) goes up to him and says "hello...and who are you?" Prince Charles a little taken aback but nonetheless replies
"I am Prince Charles, Prince of Wales"
Doctor X takes him gently by the arm and says 'let us get you to the ward and we'll discuss that shall we?"
Now I have told you and it is not funny but I have been giggling about it for two days now. Every time I get the image in my mind I start again!

Oh heck, I am a plum eh?

Hippy

[Dr. Snow]

Originally Posted by hippyhippy

Now I have told you and it is not funny but I have been giggling about it for two days now. Every time I get the image in my mind I start again!

Hehehe... Yeah, I do get it, and it is funny! It kind of sticks in your mind doesn't it? That'd make a great comic strip. Prince Charles, the megalomaniac. Hehe!

[liveweyerd]

I am getting the giggles reading it! Very funny and imaginative!
Altho' I have been seeing mine long enough and she would have laughed too!

[GailJ]

Seeing/reading you in such a good state of mind would make me giggle too. bubble cloud of your p-doc giving himself a pat on the back. You sound great Hippy, Now.............How about at home?????????


Giant Happy Hugs...

Hey something totally off topic, Do you like sardines, at work today with two male mates both of whom hate fish of any sort. My mother complex came out you know the "eat your beans, your bigger and you grew new taste buds which will let you like them...." comments came out.... Determined I would let these inner continental folk know the joy of seafood told them to try in about a hundred different ways. Don't know, love sardines, herring oysters, me and hubs.

Could use some really good seafood recipies, dips, cooked or otherwise. PM me Hippy and fill me in, need some more, good emotion enducing omega-3 recipies in our diet and my skin is cracking in the cold so some vit-E would be a help too.

Woooow, over-tired and over worked tonight. Time to get offline. Still PM me anyway love.

[hippyhippy]

ok......I kinda gone full circle here on questioning the bp and had a MAJOR mood shift! I am just so bloody happy! It all started with that joke thing and I haven't stopped since. I just wanna do everything and be everywhere but there aren't enough hours in the day. It is like years ago when I was on Prozac and it made me feel slightly euphoric. I been so tempted to not take my meds so I wouldn't sleep but held on to sensibility for the most part. I know pdoc is concerned I am too high but this just feels so good and I don't want it to stop. I am not wanting to do anything dangerous or anything I just want to keep moving and being alive. It is like I am so happy the bleak times have passed that I need to live every minute. I have pdoc tmorrow and I am so tempted to try to lie to him so he doesn't change anything as this could just be a simple happy yeah? Doesn't have to be high? Would I know if I was high? Does it really matter if I am high as long as I am not in danger?
You guys are my best source of knowledge
Hippy

[Dr. Snow]

That's bloody fantastic! Now we can call you hAppyhippy!! High? Well, anything is better than the bleakness.

Recently, I felt euphoric for the first time in years, but it only lasted about an hour. It happened right after my last dose increase. Anyway, I'm glad you got airborne before the end of the runway!

[pedagogue]

Originally Posted by hippyhippy

I am so tempted to try to lie to him so he doesn't change anything as this could just be a simple happy yeah? Doesn't have to be high? Would I know if I was high?

You don't know me from a hole in the wall, but trust me when I say that you need to be honest with your pdoc. It may feel great now, but in order to make sure you have what you need all of the time (and not just when you feel great), you need to let him/her know everything.

Originally Posted by hippyhippy

Does it really matter if I am high as long as I am not in danger?

Absolutely. There can be a fine line between really happy, and being a bit too much on the manic side....which can lead to impulsivity and whatnot that *can* be dangerous.

[mike_mass]

Have you tried more simple solutions like...diet change, no caffeine, low carbs, meditation, other stress relief techniques? I have had your symptoms and found they are fewer and farther between the more I maintain a disciplined lifestyle on a daily basis.

[hippyhippy]

I saw pdoc yesterday and I was honest. He says I may be a bit high but is not unduly concerned, not enough to tamper with meds anyway. He is just keeping me on regular review.
I have calmed down a bit anyway now. I am still feeling good and positive but slightly more grounded!
Hippy