What can I do?

[Lobo]

Friends,
I'm not sure if you can help me with this or not but I'm what is a mother to do if she won't listen to reason.
I posted about her change in medication to Lithium and got a lot of good advice.

Well, today she said she is not taking the Lithium and she is not calling her doc. I can't make her do anything. She is very irritable and cranky. She warned me of that. Said she is not irritated at anyone, just miserable being off her meds. She is very afraid to take the Lithium because of how it made her feel and act. She was out of control and those symptoms stopped when she stopped taking the Lithium. So, now she is taking nothing and she is very miserable.

Should I just let her go and make her decision to take control when she is ready? Can someone like her make a rational decision? She doesn't even want to talk about it to me.

I just want to help, but she won't let me.

Help.............Lo

[TiredMama]

She may not think that you understand even though it seems like you do. Just with my personal experience, it was hard to talk to my mother about these things without her having a blank "huh?" look on her face after my last breakdown. The only way anyone could talk sense into me was when I was seeing my therapist. I actually had two therapists at the time and one psychiatrist (only for dispensing Rx's).
I remember feeling miserable not being on any meds at all. It was a horrible feeling.
Just let her know you are there for her when she is ready.

[historyteach]

I'm sorry...
Perhaps if you give her some space, she'll come to you.

I know, in RI, once they are an adult, there's nothing we can legally do, UNLESS they are a danger to themself or others. Only then can we have them committed for a 24 hour watch. However, there's a trust issue that results from that action, too.

Talking about it in a calm rational manner may be the best thing to do. Let her know that there are other meds she can try, if this one is not for her. It takes time to get the right "fit."

I'm sending prayers out to you and her. I know this is heartbreakening for you.

Shalom!

[Lobo]

Tired and Teach,

Thank you for your much needed support. I think you are both right about giving her some time and letting her know that I am here when she needs someone. Maybe she'll just realize it on her own that something has to be done. That she has to take charge.

Thanks ladies and hugs to you both..............Lo

[shutterbug]

Just wondering if printed out the other thread and gave it to her to read like you were thinking of doing?

Also....if it is affecting YOUR mental health and well-being then there are bounderies you can definetly set. Yes she is an adult, BUT she is also currently living with you and that means that her decisions are/can affect your life as well. If things get bad enough then there are definetly ultimatums that can be given (I realize that would be a hard thing to do b/c you care about her so much, but you also can't let things get to a point where you are enabling her to continue her own distructive behavior either -- that only makes things much worse in the long run).

My 2 cents worth of suggestions would be:

1 cent -- print out the other thread if you haven't already

2 cent -- find a copy of "A Brilliant Maddness" by Patty Duke at a local bookstore or order it off the web for her (and a copy for yourself if you want....it's not that expensive a book....seems like a new copy is somewhere between $7 and $10 or something)

Then lay both somewhere for her with a note telling her how much you love her and you wanted her to have this bit of literature in case she is interested, but that from now on you plan to leave her addiction and mental illness issues in her hands.

i'm really pushing that book so diligently b/c (especially for her situation) it couldn't be more well suited for the things she is dealing with. Patty Dukes first mood stabalizer was even Lithium. And since she was also dual diagnosis (severe alcoholic) i think it will really hit home with your daughter.....and i think she will be drawn to read it because it embraces bipolar disorder as a necessary evil (and sometimes beautiful brilliance) in our world -- in that so many amazing people in history and current day time have been/are bipolar (like Abraham Lincoln and Charles Dickens and a hundred others -- musicians, painters, sculptures....).

love and hugs,
Jenna

[shutterbug]

Lobo....I just wanted to post this brief little part from the NYTimes article that HistoryTeach gave us a link to in another thread..


Complications

Stopping or improperly taking medication can lead to symptoms coming back and the following complications:

* Alcohol and/or drug abuse may be used as a strategy to "self-medicate."
* Personal relationships, work, and finances may suffer as a result of mood swings.
* Suicidal thoughts and behaviors are a very real complication of bipolar disorder.

This illness is challenging to treat. Patients and their friends and family must be aware of the risks of neglecting to treat bipolar disorder.

(full article: Bipolar Disorder - Symptoms, Diagnosis, Treatment of Bipolar Disorder - NY Times Health Information )

[Done_With_It]

Originally Posted by Lobo

Friends,
I'm not sure if you can help me with this or not but I'm what is a mother to do if she won't listen to reason.
I posted about her change in medication to Lithium and got a lot of good advice.

Well, today she said she is not taking the Lithium and she is not calling her doc. I can't make her do anything. She is very irritable and cranky. She warned me of that. Said she is not irritated at anyone, just miserable being off her meds. She is very afraid to take the Lithium because of how it made her feel and act. She was out of control and those symptoms stopped when she stopped taking the Lithium. So, now she is taking nothing and she is very miserable.

Should I just let her go and make her decision to take control when she is ready? Can someone like her make a rational decision? She doesn't even want to talk about it to me.

I just want to help, but she won't let me.

Help.............Lo

(((Lo)))

I've heard similiar stores about Lithium, seems to work miracles or have the adverse affect. Well don't they all.

I have bipolar and I really feel for my Mom, over the last few years I'm sure, no I know she's been worried that she was going to lose me.
I know for me, when I am really down I don't want my Mom around and I withdraw from her because I don't want her to know I'm in that much pain, because I know it hurts her more than me.
At one point I checked my self into a hosp. for suicidal thoughts and I tried to hide that from her, but she found out.
But "for me" when I do that, it's always when I need her the most, but I will Always push her away as much as I can, and try and hide from her.
I wish I didn't but I hate to hurt her.
I guess what helps me is that she just never gives up, lol, she gets mad at me sometimes, but just knowing she's there, always gives me strength.

My step sister has severe bipolar, worse, way worse than me. My parents did end up having her committed, it wasn't easy, and at times I thought were all going to lose our minds over her. She was a handful. The courts were hard to deal with, but in the end that is the only thing that saved her. They put her on meds and when she didn't take them, she knew she would have to go back. She couldn't make decisions on her own without her meds, her best thinking drove her to do things that were not good and she wouldn't have made it.

Those are just my experiences. I am the same way off my meds, but I know the line, once I'm on that suicidal mark, I know I need to get help.
Bipolar is a terrible thing to have for the person w/it and everyone around them, we are like ticking time bombs that no one really knows how to difuse ever... I'm sorry you are going through this.

I think if you see her get to a point that really scares you, don't hesitate to pick up the phone and call the police on her.
Someone did that to me, a really good friend who is like a brother to me,
when I pissed him off, he thought I was suicidal, well I was and I told him I was, I had a bunch of pills, but I wasn't going to take them, but I wouldn't let him take them home.
He gave me a choice, either he was going to take my pills home, or call the police on me.
(They were my meds, prescribed by my doctor?? derr)...
But..... He did THE BEST THING he could have done.
I WAS PISSED off at the time...
But he knew I wasn't thinking right, and he couldn't handle me.
That is exactly what I would do, and what I have done to a couple
of friends.

Make the police earn your tax dollars if you need help.

[TiredMama]

Originally Posted by shutterbug

Lobo....I just wanted to post this brief little part from the NYTimes article that HistoryTeach gave us a link to in another thread..


Complications

Stopping or improperly taking medication can lead to symptoms coming back and the following complications:

* Alcohol and/or drug abuse may be used as a strategy to "self-medicate."
* Personal relationships, work, and finances may suffer as a result of mood swings.
* Suicidal thoughts and behaviors are a very real complication of bipolar disorder.

This illness is challenging to treat. Patients and their friends and family must be aware of the risks of neglecting to treat bipolar disorder.

(full article: Bipolar Disorder - Symptoms, Diagnosis, Treatment of Bipolar Disorder - NY Times Health Information )

Thank you thank you for posting this. This is the exact reason I winded up in the psych ward (and in my opinion, should have been left in there and not taken home at my mom's who didn't have a clue what she was doing) over night because I overdosed on meds and did the binge drinking thing. I also did binge sex (I know that is a lot of info but it was part of it) and that isn't like me "normally" (who is to say what normal is, but you know what I mean). I had stopped taking my meds and I went OUT of control.

[TiredMama]

Done-with-it:

I can relate to your experiences because my mother didn't have a clue on what to do with me. I was 22 years old when I was hospitalized but only overnight. She had the "power" over me and told them she would take me home to her house (I was in college at the time) instead of letting them put me in a hospital that was well known for it's success. I can't dwell too much on that now because I am now almost 27 years old and that was a while back, but I do wish she would have let me go. I was having binge sex, binge drinking, my opiate and benzo addiction was at it highest and deadliest, and I was an avid cutter.

But I look back on that experience and realize I am such a stronger person, really strong. I have gone through things that make people's heads spin and it is almost like it is surreal to them. I know you all know what I mean by that.

[TiredMama]

OH and until this day, my mom still isn't "convinced" that I have bipolar disorder.

[Done_With_It]

Originally Posted by TiredMama

OH and until this day, my mom still isn't "convinced" that I have bipolar disorder.

It took my Mom a lot of time to 'figure it out', lol.
She can just now admit that I have it. I think now that
I'm okay she can say it outloud, same with the cutting the ed, etc.
but when I'm "Sick" she thinks it's "her" fault.

Poor Mom's I really feel for them. They know it's not their fault,
but the biggest fear is too lose their babies.

I got into a 'fight' not really but kind of with my Mom @ Xmas,
it was a good thing, it was my fault, I freaked out about some
stuff that she didn't want to talk about, lol, you know those things
they push to the side.
Typical Mom-Daughter fight.
I mentioned "Suicide" but I meant I just think of suicide when I think
of "what I was thinking about" when I think of it by myself, and
that's why I wanted to talk about it.
And I know it scares her so bad, that I even go there to that "Place"
when I get "That Stressed Out"....

It's so hard for someone to understand who doesn't have the same issues.
But at least today she understands.
Anyway, it has taken her forever to understand why my
brain works like it does. And that suicide, depression, cutting, my ED
are all very real for me, and not just some attention getting scheme.

I think today, luckily I am closer to letting that stuff go than I ever have been.

Keep on hanging in there Tired Mama, it gets easier.


And Lobo, there is hope, I never thought I would change or thought I had the ability to get better. But we do.
I'm happy today than I ever have been, and I owe my Mom so much for that.
She's been my rock......

[TiredMama]

Thanks for posting that. Sometimes, I want her to understand so badly, but I know these things take time.

[Lobo]

Done,
Boy hon, you have come a long way. I would have never imagined that you had so many issues. You always sound so put together. I hope my RAD can get there like you did. Your mom must be proud of you. In fact I know she is. Us moms don't want it to be about us but we just hurt so much for our daughters that it is hard to keep a stiff upper lip all of the time.

I wish my daughter would get on here and talk to you sometime. I told her to get on SR but she doesn't. I think you are probably about the same age.

You always inspire me, Done, thanks you sweetie.

[Lobo]

Shutterbug,
You are just an information super highway. You must have really done your research on this topic. I really appreciate your links to help. I am definetly going to get Patti Dukes book. I want to read it and I hope my RAD will read it. I'm going to take your advice of how to give it to her.

Hugs.............Lo

[Lobo]

Tired,
It's hard for a mom to come to terms with the fact that their girl has a mental illness. I guess I was just always hoping it would just go away.

I'm glad you learned and became stronger from your risky and scarey behavior. My RAD also lived through a lot of that. I know some of the things but I am sure if I knew half of the situations that she has put herself in, I would be sick over it.

Do you think when you are doing those things, you are obviously not in your right state of mind that even though you aren't that you still learn from them and become stronger from those bad mistakes? Do you realize what you are doing at the time?

Your mom will come to a point where she will understand your illness. This is very hard for her. Just give her time.

You have helped this mom a lot.

Hugs..............Lo

[TiredMama]

Originally Posted by Lobo

Tired,
It's hard for a mom to come to terms with the fact that their girl has a mental illness. I guess I was just always hoping it would just go away.

I'm glad you learned and became stronger from your risky and scarey behavior. My RAD also lived through a lot of that. I know some of the things but I am sure if I knew half of the situations that she has put herself in, I would be sick over it.

Do you think when you are doing those things, you are obviously not in your right state of mind that even though you aren't that you still learn from them and become stronger from those bad mistakes? Do you realize what you are doing at the time?

Your mom will come to a point where she will understand your illness. This is very hard for her. Just give her time.

You have helped this mom a lot.

Hugs..............Lo

Realize that I was doing them at the time. Hmmm.. Yes and no. You do it on an impulse and you don't really "care" about the consequences of the future, only the present time. You don't care who it hurts including yourself. You are just out of control pretty much. I hope that makes sense.

There are things I remembered and some things that I don't. I remembered enough to know that they were part of my disease and how I could find ways to cope and move past them.

[shutterbug]

Originally Posted by Lobo

Shutterbug,
You are just an information super highway. You must have really done your research on this topic. I really appreciate your links to help. I am definetly going to get Patti Dukes book. I want to read it and I hope my RAD will read it. I'm going to take your advice of how to give it to her.

Hugs.............Lo

LOL....I absolutely LOATHED reading until about 4 years ago when i found myself dating/in love/enmeshed with a late-stage alcoholic and called old his sponsor who told me about Alanon.



That's when i discovered i was codependent...and what that meant...and that it had been affecting every aspect of my life FOR my entire life. So instead of being obsessed with him.....i gradually switched my obsession to reading about codependency.

I found this site while trying to find a local Alanon meeting to attend. Soon after, i ventured over to this mental health forum b/c of my depression and discovered what a doctor had meant many years earlier when he mentioned to me that i was bipolar and how it was affecting my daily life even MORE than the codependency!

The read was on!
I now have a library of codie, psychology and photography books instead of a dining room. LOL

So much so....that since i have a journalism degree and write about all this stuff constantly anyway....i figured I might as well write a book while i'm at it, eh? So i figure i'm about half-way there (hopefully!)

hugs!
Jenna

[shutterbug]

oh.....BUT!!!!!!

I can't take credit for that last link and info about consequences of stopping meds....that was by way of a thread/post/link that HistoryTeach put up yesterday and i was reading her link just before i read this thread so i just copy and pasted that bit over here.

So we both have Teach to thank for that!! She's a constant source of new information and links around here!!! (All i can do is basically regurgitate, however u spell that, stuff i've read mostly long ago. lol)

[Spiritual Seeker]

Sending some support your way Lobo. I know you are in a frustrating situation with your daughter.
The toughest thing is to watch our grown kids ignore medical advice along with our advice that we offer out of concern, love and rational thinking.
It seems one of the symptoms of addiction and mental illness is often the inability to
follow the very advice that can lead to progress. The hardest thing as a mom is to do nothing. But that is sometimes our only option...letting go.

[Done_With_It]

Originally Posted by Lobo

Done,
Boy hon, you have come a long way. I would have never imagined that you had so many issues. You always sound so put together. I hope my RAD can get there like you did. Your mom must be proud of you. In fact I know she is. Us moms don't want it to be about us but we just hurt so much for our daughters that it is hard to keep a stiff upper lip all of the time.

I wish my daughter would get on here and talk to you sometime. I told her to get on SR but she doesn't. I think you are probably about the same age.

You always inspire me, Done, thanks you sweetie.

Ahh thank you ..
Kind of ironic you say that. ( I would have never imagined that you had so many issues.) Because alot of people say/think that & for the most part I am, so when I get into one of my "moods" people are lik WTF? is wrong with her. LOL, it would almost be easier for me if I was not so together, because
"Done" is not supposed to get like that. It freaks people out, and I hide evreything "VERY" well. Even the meth problem, no one ever knew about, well a few people, but not many. I've always been the "Care Taker"...

Do you think when you are doing those things, you are obviously not in your right state of mind that even though you aren't that you still learn from them and become stronger from those bad mistakes? Do you realize what you are doing at the time?

I know you didn't ask me this but I will answer anyway.
For me it depended. With my ED it was about control, I needed control which turned into a life long obsession about my weight. Any issues we have can be about control, when our world or our mind are out of control I think we look for things we can control. That is why counselors many times won't "Take things away from you" they let you rid yourself of them. Because it is what is keeping you alive often. My ED kept me alive because it helped me make sense of the world. With all the chaosis I need stability in my life. Anorexia gave me stability, Cutting took away my pain.
So yes I was aware of what I was doing, but it was normal to me.
What was crazy making behavior to others was stability to me.

That may not ring true for everyone, but that is how it worked for me.
It took me years of therapy and some very caring and patient therapists
to help me. The worst therapists "For Me" were the ones who tried to throw all these "Rules" into my life. If you see me, you can't drink, smoke, throw up, cut, do this, do that. Whoahh, lol... I never had a problem with drinking, never smoked, if I knew how to "not throw up", or Not cut I wouldn't be here dumbass. Therapy was key for me....
Self Destruction is a horrible thing....



Oh yea, btw, I am here if your daughter ever does want to talk.

[TiredMama]

Yes please let your daughter know she is more than welcome to come here and talk with us anytime.

[Lobo]

Shutterbug,

Who would have thought that loving an addict could bring all of this codiesness to surface. I never really thought of myself as a codie until I walked through hell with my daughter's drug abuse. Boy, have I ever learned a lot. You are a lot younger than me, I'm glad you are learning a lot sooner than I did.

Sometime I think part of my codie behavior toward her is saving myself from some of her
problems. I know that sounds selfish, but it seems if I try to stop it before things get out of control, that I will not only be saving her but myself as well. Does that make sense?

Thank you, sweetie............Lo

[Lobo]

Done,
You know I can relate to you. I have always been good at hiding that I didn't always have it all together. People look at me like I really know how to keep my act together.
But......guess what? I am falling apart inside. Even my 2 sons who are married and my daughter......they think mom can do anything , she is so independent, she can take care of all things, she doesn't need any help, she does good on her own. I have always given them the impression after their father died that I can and will take care of myself.
So much so , that they hardly ever ask me if I need anything. I guess I created that but I sure could use them more than they think. Sometimes I feel like I carry the weight of the world on my shoulders and I can't unload on them because I protect them.

Sorry Done, I didn't mean to ramble on. Thank you, hon for your much needed support.
You are very wise for being so young.

Hugs..........Lo

[Lobo]

Tired, Spiritual Seeker,

Thank you ladies for your kind words. I will invite my daughter to talk to you, Tired

Hugs...........Lo

[Done_With_It]

Originally Posted by Lobo

Done,
You know I can relate to you. I have always been good at hiding that I didn't always have it all together. People look at me like I really know how to keep my act together.
But......guess what? I am falling apart inside. Even my 2 sons who are married and my daughter......they think mom can do anything , she is so independent, she can take care of all things, she doesn't need any help, she does good on her own. I have always given them the impression after their father died that I can and will take care of myself.
So much so , that they hardly ever ask me if I need anything. I guess I created that but I sure could use them more than they think. Sometimes I feel like I carry the weight of the world on my shoulders and I can't unload on them because I protect them.

Sorry Done, I didn't mean to ramble on. Thank you, hon for your much needed support.
You are very wise for being so young.

Hugs..........Lo

Oh gosh, Can I relate to all that. I hope you continue to learn to reach out and demand more from yourself in the way of support for yourself.
That is actually what landed me in the hospital for suicide.
The weight of the world was on my shoulders and then it was taken off in a way, and I kind of freaked out. Hard to explain, but Yea I can so relate.
Even just start by taking time out for yourself that you normally wouldn't.

And start by not being sorry for talking, this IS YOUR thread.......