Welbutrin...as a mood stabalizer????

[shutterbug]

Anyone ever heard of Webutrin having mood stabalizing properties? This is complete news to me if it is!

This is what i was told today by my new pdoc in day treatment. my thoughts? that i've just ran across yet another dingy pdoc. I mean....how can a pdoc not even know about ECT?!!!

[pedagogue]

Some prefer not to mess with ECT, it really should only be used in severe treatment-resistant depression because of side effects.

As for the wellbutrin, it is sometimes used off-label for bi-polar. I can see how someone would try it, but I guess it is personal preference.

-p

[shutterbug]

thanks Peda....side affects with ECT? you mean the memory loss?

I keep hearing from different places and people of how it's actually the most beneficial thing for depression and the safest. It doesn't put any unnatural chemicals in your body (only the meds they use during treatments to put you under and such), doesn't cause things like deadly rashes, weight gain, no potential for potential lethal build up of salts or anything similar to lithium or depakote, doesn't cause diabetis like Serouel can, doesn't push bipolars into possible manias, doesn't cause low libido, or knock a person out for 15 hours or more at a time.....

....and really all ECT is....is a stimulated seizer (however u spell that) accomplished by very low level shocks to specific points. right?

i don't understand why it's the last thing we should turn to instead of the first or second? I know it personally frightens me a bit just because of having to go under and having never been under before or anything similar, but wouldn't a little short-term memory loss worth the benefits (as typical loss of memories is usually only the few days prior to treatment and tend to return later)? I mean, my short-term memory is shyte anyway because of this depression....sometimes can't even remember what i did just 5 hours prior unless seriously thinking really hard on it for a while. So either way i've got memory loss issues.

Anyway, thanks for responding Peda and i can't wait to read your thoughts an opinions on this stuff!!!

hugs,
jenna

p.s. my personal view on why ECT isn't more main stream? Besides the obvious fear factor of how it got it's start, there's the money issue, plain and simple. It's a lot more profitable to hand out a pill then for insurance companies to be paying for and docs to start prescribing expensive ECT. And if it really works as well as i keep hearing from docs and professors....then that would sure cut WAY into the Rx biz with all of us who depend on anti-ds and anxiety meds! Can u fathum the financial losses many Rx companies would get hit with if ECT became more mainstream than pills!!! I can't even imagine.

p.s.s What have you heard about that new stimulas device that is now being surgically inplanted into depressed patients? Any good reviews?

[pedagogue]

Originally Posted by shutterbug

thanks Peda....side affects with ECT? you mean the memory loss?

I keep hearing from different places and people of how it's actually the most beneficial thing for depression and the safest. It doesn't put any unnatural chemicals in your body (only the meds they use during treatments to put you under and such), doesn't cause things like deadly rashes, weight gain, no potential for potential lethal build up of salts or anything similar to lithium or depakote, doesn't cause diabetis like Serouel can, doesn't push bipolars into possible manias, doesn't cause low libido, or knock a person out for 15 hours or more at a time.....

Everything has risks, it just depends which route you choose to take. ECT, much like medication, has been evolving since its first inception. The early on treatments were way to much (much like medications.....they use to pile on Thorazine and Haldol when they first came out)

Originally Posted by shutterbug

....and really all ECT is....is a stimulated seizer (however u spell that) accomplished by very low level shocks to specific points. right?

i don't understand why it's the last thing we should turn to instead of the first or second? I know it personally frightens me a bit just because of having to go under and having never been under before or anything similar, but wouldn't a little short-term memory loss worth the benefits (as typical loss of memories is usually only the few days prior to treatment and tend to return later)? I mean, my short-term memory is shyte anyway because of this depression....sometimes can't even remember what i did just 5 hours prior unless seriously thinking really hard on it for a while. So either way i've got memory loss issues.

Anyway, thanks for responding Peda and i can't wait to read your thoughts an opinions on this stuff!!!

hugs,
jenna

I know short-term memory concerns are the primary complaint, though I'd talk with your physician more if you have concerns. I know they have made good strides in the procedure, and there are some other alternatives (using high-powered magnets), but I don't know enough to speak to the particulars.

Originally Posted by shutterbug

p.s. my personal view on why ECT isn't more main stream? Besides the obvious fear factor of how it got it's start, there's the money issue, plain and simple. It's a lot more profitable to hand out a pill then for insurance companies to be paying for and docs to start prescribing expensive ECT. And if it really works as well as i keep hearing from docs and professors....then that would sure cut WAY into the Rx biz with all of us who depend on anti-ds and anxiety meds! Can u fathum the financial losses many Rx companies would get hit with if ECT became more mainstream than pills!!! I can't even imagine.

p.s.s What have you heard about that new stimulas device that is now being surgically inplanted into depressed patients? Any good reviews?

Pharma companies are getting out of psychotropics as of late (there isn't enough money in it), and they are just repackaging and tweaking current formulations. Many of the newer drugs are metabolites of older drugs, and others just have a different delivery system (extended release, transdermal patch, etc). Heart and cholesterol meds are where it's at, with an aging population, those drugs are HUGE money makers....and Alzheimer's treatment, though that is harder to get passed.

Access is also a concern. Many people don't have or aren't willing to find places to have the treatment. Many docs who do ECT require multiple pharma interventions (in multiple classes) before going down the path of ECT. I think of ECT like I think of Clozaril......both have been proven to work on treatment of resistant dx's, BUT they come with some strings attached. Most people would rather not mess with them, but for some....it is the only treatment that works.

-p

[historyteach]

Kitty Dukakis, the wife of the former Governor of Mass, and once ran for president, Mike Dukakis, raves about ECT. She claims it saved her life. She is on a speaking tour to promote her book about the benefits of it. And she hopes that it will become more acceptable to speak openly about as a result of her experiences.
(I have my doubts, but.... afterall, it's still pretty much stuck in the mind as the debilitating treatment in One Flew Over the Cocoos Nest with Jack Nickelson)

Jenna, you should check out her book. I don't know the title, but, I'm sure you could Google it or go on to Amazon to find it. She's a pretty prominent woman.

Best of luck.

SHalom!

[shutterbug]

Thank you both very much....Peda i guess my main thoughts are that i've heard mostly good things these days about ECT from both docs who are knowledgeable about it and patients who use it and their family members.

One of the first meds they put me on was Seroquel and after taking it for a while and then getting off of it...i had some blood tests done that revealed i was borderline diabetic. I knew instantly it was a result of the constant and extreme sugar cravings i had while on that med, but that was only my own personal theory. Nearly two years later....now i read that it has been acknoledged for causing diabetis. So there is no doubt in my mind about that now.

So...i look at it like this....how in the world could loosing a few days of my memory be worse than developing an entire new disease caused from the side affects of a pill? And that was only one pill of many i've been used like a guinea pig with while trying to bring me out of the depressions and keep me out.

So...a few initial ECT treatments and then maintance treatments could have saved me from having to put my body in jeapordy of developing more health concerns AND from not having to take a cocktail of different pills all the time?

If ECT had been prescribed during my first mental health crisis....i believe the last 4 years would have been much easier and that i would probably NEVER have even gotten to the current place of being suicidal or near suicidal.

All-in-all....i think it's all about stigmas as HistoryTeach spoke of. I've had that part of that movie described to me, but i've never seen it and only made it a little ways into the book when i was assigned to read it in school. So....luckily i don't really have any strong images of the monsterous ways ECT got it's start.

All i know now is that it works, with little to no real or lasting side affects, and that's really all there is to know for me.

Too many people like me struggle for too many years on the med rollar coaster....why should we have to suffer while the docs make guesses if there's already something out there that ACTUALLY works?

Getting over the fears about it is really the only question left in my opinion.
Do it....get better, perhaps lose memory of the 2-3 days before treatment?
-or-
Don't do it.....get depressed over and over and lose memory of tons of things 24-7?

Easy choice when laid out in those terms don't ya think?

hugs,
jenna

p.s. Teach...thank you so much for sharing that about the first lady of Mass. i will have to find that book even if i have to order it online. Thanks!!!!! And how wonderful to hear of more prominet people speaking up about their battles with mental health issues!!! Rock on!!!!! Whoot Whoot!

[barb dwyer]

hi shutterbug -

my only experience with wellbutrin was when doing the stimulant therapies for ADHD and yes, that's what it was recommended for on the 90 day 'off' times for the meds. They called it 'stacking' - to come off such a powerful stimulant (required by the FDA every 6 mos with the one I was on) you get the boomerang effect, so right bfore you come off it - they'd give me wellbutrin a week before, it helped with the 'spiking' effect ... but not as much as Celexa did.

So that's the only experience with it I have.

[skunkape]

I never really question what my pdoc says about drugs. I trust him and his opinion. Thats not to say there aren't quacks out there. Pdocs have access to research journals that are constantly being updated. This research is so cutting edge it's hard to find even if you have a vague idea where to look for it. Then when you find it it's hard or next to impossible to understand without the scientific background. I never really thought of WB as a mood stabilizer, but it's been shown to have pretty diverse applications, ADHD, smoking etc..

[Done_With_It]

Jenna I'm on wellbutrin but 'also' on a mood stabilizer as well. Never heard of wellbutrin for a stabilizer before, (that's my experience)..

My experience with ECT is also only Good Stuff. I've never had it done, but I had a best friend who was in and out of hospitals, on every drug you could imagine, her
husband finally left her after one of her suicide attempts, and if you met this girl on on of her more 'normal' periods, you would Never have a Clue....
Pretty, outgoing, Happy, UCLA Student, nice car, but omg, when she was messed up, she went hard core anorexic, burning, cutting, suicidal, it used to make me insane.. I took her to the hospital and had her admitted several times..

The last time they suggested ECT, I was like are you people out of you mind?
I'd seen Requim recently and just heard bad things, I was like NO WAY!
So I came home and read up on it and ended up getting like 3 books on it,
and I think I got the one Teach was talking about, I know her story well either
way.
My friend wasn't sure what to do, she was locked up, and I brought her all the
info. and pretty much convinced her to do it, she had gotten it once before
and it didn't work, so she wasn't sure, but i was like, well if you don't your going
to be dead with how your going anyway.
She did do it, and it was Amazing! It took everything away, all those down cycles
she had, the cutting, burning, anorexia, crazy periods, suicidal things, that no one could fix for years and years, with drugs, without drugs, with 5-7 days of therapy a week, she ended up quitting her 4 day a week therapy, dropped a few classes at school, dropped almost all of her meds, got a different job, and is to this day still happier than she's ever been.
That's my Cinderella story. Not saying they are all like that. But I couldn't believe it. I read so much info. on it before she got hers, I'll find the books I read, they were helpful. And there is so much stuff on the net.
The bad stuff is the memory loss, and it did affect our friendship, I'm sad to say, she kind of forgot how close we were, and she did forget everything I did for her, lol, all the times I was there for her, she has no recollection of, we talk every so often, it's not the same, some day maybe it will be. But I don't care, as long as she is happy, I'm okay with losing her as a friend. If that makes sense.



I'm sure all the cases aren't as good as that, but that's my experience with it.

[historyteach]

Jenna,
One thing Kitty Dukakis makes clear too is that she has treatments regularly. For her, the debilitating depression returns on a regular basis. And she's had multiple treatments of ETC. It is NOT a cure all. Each time, she looses memory.
She still thinks it's worth it, for her.
But, I wanted to make that clear. It's not a one time, cure all treatment.

Shalom!

[shutterbug]

Thanks Teach...i understand. I know that if i did the initial ECT treatments it would be 3 times a week for several weeks (6 i think, but not sure) and that me being bipolar i would need maintenance treatments, sometimes probably on a monthly basis. But, at present, that is much more of a "cure all" than meds in my eyes.

Now....the new implant has the potential to be a cure all...that is what is so exciting about it!! For some, once the proper level is found and set then...yay...no more depression. But still that is a small percentage. I'm sure for me if i went that route then i would need to modifications from time-to-time because of the bipolar and the rapid cycling stuffs, but still...very huge potential there. The only reason i'm wanting to learn more about the ECT right now instead....is because this surgury is just that....an actual surgery and because it's only been out for about a year. I think i want to wait until a little more time has passed before diving into this kind of procedure.

[xjunkie4u]

WLBUTRIN! is it a candy mint or a breath mint? It's a antidepressant that is not a SSRI type and is effective in treating some types of depression. It is also used for smoking cesstation as in Zyban. Is it really used for mood stalbilzation like for bi-polar or other mental illnesss's?

[shutterbug]

Thanks xjunkie4u....it didn't help me stop smoking. I've been on it for several years now.

Peda said above that it's used off-lable as a mood stabalizer, but seeing that i still rapid cycle and dip up and down (especiallly way down)....umm my opinion is it's used "off-label" as a mood stabalizer for a good reason, which is that it doesn't work to stabalize moods enough to be considered "a mood stabalizer".

Anyway...i know it helps me with my ADHD, b/c my world gets topsy-turvy when i run out of it for more than a couple days.

And....i'm totally convinced that this new pdoc is a total ding-bat! Today, i learned that she has prescribed Seroquel (an anti-psychotic) to a girl to help her sleep!!! First she tried her on Trazadone, then Cenesta (or however you spell that) and one other before switching her to the Seroquel for sleep!! I'm at a freaking loss with that one....especially seeing how she hasn't tried the girl on Visteril (a simple anti-histamine that works for many).

Nope....don't like this woman, not one little bit.

-------------------
((((((Done-With-It))))))))
I'm soooo sorry for not responding to your wonderful post sooner....i don't know what's wrong with me!

That's what I've read in multiple places when Welbutrin is prescribed to bipolars that a seperate mood stabalizer is also prescribed. And that makes sense to me.

Thanks SOOO much for sharing your story with me about your friend!!! I would very much like knowing what the 3 books were you read if you can remember or find them?

It is sad tho that she does't remember your friendship closeness and all. really sad. Do you know if any other major relationships in her life were affected by her memory loss? How long has it been since she's needed treatment again? Or does she keep maintennce treatment appointments? I guess i'm wondering......basically how long has it been working for her?

wow...thanks again everyone!!!!

[Dr. Snow]

Hey, Shutterbug

Your original question prompted me to do some online reading. I was gonna post the links to these articles 2 or 3 days ago. Anyway, here's what I found:

http://www.bcm.edu/news/item.cfm?newsID=835

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/topi...&topic=Bipolar

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0329075342.htm

There was one more good article relating to this large and recent study, but I can't seem to find it now. Lately, I've been second-guessing my doctor's course of treatment for my bipolar and wondering if he knows what he's doing. If this research is correct, then it appears that he knows exactly what he's doing. I guess 25+ years of experience is worth something. I feel better now.

From what you've said about your doctor, I think I'd be looking for another one.

Take care...

[shutterbug]

Thanks Snow...i'd read that somewhere last week about the anti-d's not being beneficial for bipolars, but hadn't read any of the details from the study...so thanks, i've marked those pages as favorites to come back to later.

But i believe you were right to question your pdoc! If he's only treating your depression with mood stabalizers then that would seem odd. And afterall....like i've said before, these docs don't have to LIVE with their decisions on a minute-by-minute, day-by-day basis where all this affects our entire lives. And there are many more bad docs out there than there are good ones.

i'm the one who has to live in this head....much better to question and realize the doc is right, then to not question and later find out the doc was wrong and i suffered for it!!

[Cleansing]

Seroquel is often used to help people sleep. I use it for that, and it works fine, much better than Visteril/Trazodone. Vist and Traz gave me an unpleasant feeling before bed, and so I would go to bed uneasy and wake up angry and/or disappointed in the sleep. I take Seroquel at 6pm, and I feel more relax til bed time (12am), and it's very easy to fall asleep without feeling drugged up (which is what Trazdone did to me).I take the smallest amount though (one pill).

Seroquel used to be known as a tranquilizer, though many doctors don't use that term anymore.

I take Wellbutrin and Depakote, but I am not bi-polar (I have major depression disorder -- or whatever the kids are calling it nowadays.) Depakote is a popular mood stabilizer. I take 100mg, but I believe people with Bi-polar Dis take more.

Why Depakote? I used to have a lot of random outbursts. Sometimes weird, sometimes confrontational, sometimes violent. But I was never in a manic state. The Wellbutrin goes great with Depakote for most people, but I've never heard of it being used ONLY for mood stabilizing.

[shutterbug]

Cleansing....sounds to me like you are bipolar II and are being treated for bipolar II whether you want to accept that or not. Also sounds like there's other reasons they could have also prescribed the Seroquel. There are many other sleep inducing meds than just visteril and trazadone and even 10 times more ways to induce proper sleep that are the non-med route, like progressive muscle relaxation and self-hypnosis. I thought the latter hog-wash until i stuck with it for a few months...now it's faster than any pill i could pop.

BTW, major depressive disorder goes hand-in-hand with bipolar II and rarely is a diagnosis all it's own, but many people like to think that b/c it's somehow easier to accept.

bottom line....you wouldn't be on Depakote if the docs didn't think you were having mood swings. I'm bipolar II and have never been truely "manic" but once i educated myself i realized i'd been hypomanic throughout differnt times of my entire life....nothing ever seemed a problem except for the major depressive episodes. Which is why it's SO easy for people to accept that diagnosis, but not the bipolar....they only "see" the one side b/c they have pre-concieved ideas of what mania looks like (or they have no idea at all what it looks like)

But whatever....i'm tired of talking sense into people who are stone set on believing half-truths dispite what's right there to the contrary. It takes too much energy to try to educate everyone...especially when i'm dealing with my own episode right now.

[Cleansing]

Well the doctor who first put me on Depakote was the one who diagnosed me as Bi-polar Type II. But that guy was shady imo opinion (I explain below if you want to read the story). But I've seen about 20 psychiatrists/therapists in the past 3 years -- mainly because I moved often and then have a problem with my last insurance.

Most of them believe it was also depression, and I like that diagnosis as well. Bi-polar type II is very tricky. Last month, I had 2 outbursts, and got escorted out of detox in one instance. But I was coming off drugs, depressed, and felt caged up. Was I acting way because of the bi-polar II, or was it Depression being really intense mixed with the withdrawal period? All I know is that my current cocktail of meds is working ok, and I put in a bunch of time at this "Growth and Recovery" program. I'm not where I want to be, but I'm better than I was two months ago -- one month ago.
So do the diagnoses always matter? Just asking. I think with me, maybe not.






OTHER thoughts from me, sleepless in NYC! haah

Originally Posted by xjunkie4u

WLBUTRIN! is it a candy mint or a breath mint? It's a antidepressant that is not a SSRI type and is effective in treating some types of depression. It is also used for smoking cesstation as in Zyban. Is it really used for mood stalbilzation like for bi-polar or other mental illnesss's?

TRUE! It's not SSRI or SNRI. It's NDRI! Which is pretty amazing because there are very few meds out there like it. I'm not aware of any other anti-depressant out that is expected to cause NO weight gain, sexual impairment, or sedation (based on lab results and patient reactions). All other meds have at least one of those side effects that you may have to deal with. Problem is that you really shouldn't drink on this med, this more so than others.

Wellbutrin is a stimulant, though not everyone feels that affect. It works in a way that makes you more willing to be social and escape isolation. It doesn't really help me in that regard because I have a lot of hatred inside of me that no pill can fix.

Originally Posted by shutterbug

i'm the one who has to live in this head....much better to question and realize the doc is right, then to not question and later find out the doc was wrong and i suffered for it!!

yea, whether it's a pdoc or not, I always have questions for the person who is supposed to help me feel better. You don't necessarily have to go against the doctor, but it's best to leave the office only after asking at least one question. This stuff is too complicated for patients to have no questions.

In my experience, I leave doctors if they don't answer my questions well. I know there are plenty of times I get replies I don't want to hear, but in sum cases, red flags pop up.
For instance, when I asked this one psychiatrist/psychotherapist when we were gonna start our talk therapy, and he replied, "I'm not sure yet, let's wait another month for the meds to kick in;" I knew that was a red flag. I was struggling out there trying to keep a job, and this guy wanted me to just wait it out?! Whether his methods were effective or not, that didn't matter. I was really depressed and I felt uncomfortable with him, so I left. My world was turning upside down, and I KNOW talk therapy helps, but this guy didn't want to help me? no no no no no ...

I later found out the guy is somewhat of a crook. He doesn't like doing talk therapy sessions because he's also a practicing general psychiatric, so he makes more money with each visiting patient. Hence, the less time he spends with me, the more time to see others and make more money.

[Cleansing]

I am not good enough with things like muscle relaxation for them to be helpful. I practice now and then though. Maybe I need to try harder.

But if u up for writing, I'm always good for more knowledge. I'm not that stubborn. I don't think I'll be sleeping much tonight -- had seroquel, two cups of sleepytime tea, and two cigarettes since they help me sleep . It's just not happening tonight.

[shutterbug]

sorry for my moment of crabby-ness....it really wasn't you, but several people, including family and friends over the years that have me aggrivated over that issue.

having a true diagnosis actually can be extremely beneficial if people take it upon themselves to learn what the diagnosis means and what different kinds of coping skills are available and the do's and don'ts. For example, i've learned when i feel a certain way at a particular time of night that i have to make the choice to go to sleep instead of doing things around the house that i'd rather do and that need to be done....or else i'll pay for it later with i drop down into more depression for having gone with the episode instead of stopping it before it gets started.

My mom's also learned that i start studdering a little, but noticeably just before i switch moods a lot of times. i also know my illness is progressive and life-long. i also know to watch for it in other family members, espeically young children because it runs through both sides of my family. i also know that bipolar and addiction go hand-in-hand and why that is. i also know that 20 percent (1 out of every 5 of us will actually take our own lives). I also know that if i ever find a man who i feel i want to have kids with that i will have to then make a serious choice about the high probablity of me passing mental illness and addiction onto a child....and also the possiblity that i could totally loose it and take my own life leaving a child to grow up without a mom. Those are just a few reasons why knowing my diagnosis is important.

as for the sleep stuff. i posted this a few weeks ago for some others here, but i'm off to bed so this will be it for me tonight.

hugs,
jenna

Originally Posted by jenna

Several suggestions/ideas for sleeping:
There are a number of things you can try.

1. Relaxation/self-hypnosis CD's that tell you what to think about and focus on so as to get your mind and body to slow down and rest. One I like takes you through what is called "progressive muscle relaxation" and then it focuses specifically on thoughts.

2. Go to bed the same time every night.

3. Play a CD of peaceful music or natural sounds (the same CD) every night. I have done this now for about 3 months or more and it works like the Pavlov's dog thing. It conditions your brain and body over time to respond to the music in the same way each time - sleep. Your mind comes to connect those sounds with the act of sleep. So even if I'm not tired, when I lay down and turn on my CD....I fall asleep anyway.

4. I have a specific self-hypnosis/relaxation excersize I can type out for you if you would like....it's pretty simple and I use it whenever my mind races.

5. Reserve your bedroom for sleeping ONLY (and sex). Don't watch t.v. or read or do homework or ANYTHING mentally or physically stimulating. This is another way of conditioning your brain to connect that room with the act of sleep.

6. Keep it cool. When we fall asleep our body temps rise and if it is already warm in the room then we will quickly become hot and have a harder time sleeping.


---

The tape i started out with because it was given to me by my aunt in college when i was going through my first manic phase (and didn't know it). It combined aspects of 1, 3 and 4 in a ten-minute tape. One side was called "A Mini-Vacation" and i forget what the other 10 minute side was titled. Sometimes, if my brain was really going, I'd listen to both sides and sometimes even have to go and re-play the first side -- so 3, ten-minute mental relaxation excersizes before I'd drift off.

What's important to understand is that if you get a relaxation tape/CD it's not going to help you as much the first time you use it...as it will the 10th time and so on. If you do it every night for several weeks or more then you will find that you probably won't still be awake after just a minute or two. It's a healthy kind of psychological conditioning.

---
Here's what I posted before on how to do this without using a tape/CD to guide you , but i would still HIGHLY suggest having soft, peaceful music playing every night when you lie down because hearing those same sounds will literally "trigger" your mind for sleep once you've done it for a few weeks.

hugs,
jenna

[pedagogue]

Originally Posted by shutterbug

And....i'm totally convinced that this new pdoc is a total ding-bat! Today, i learned that she has prescribed Seroquel (an anti-psychotic) to a girl to help her sleep!!! First she tried her on Trazadone, then Cenesta (or however you spell that) and one other before switching her to the Seroquel for sleep!! I'm at a freaking loss with that one....especially seeing how she hasn't tried the girl on Visteril (a simple anti-histamine that works for many)

Peda said above that it's used off-lable as a mood stabalizer, but seeing that i still rapid cycle and dip up and down (especiallly way down)....umm my opinion is it's used "off-label" as a mood stabalizer for a good reason, which is that it doesn't work to stabalize moods enough to be considered "a mood stabalizer".

Even at a low dose, Seroquel can be sedating...which is why she probably chose that. The anti-psychotic properties come into play at a higher dose. Sometimes something may be labelled for one thing (gaining FDA approval), but can work for other things. Off-label use happens a lot when something is found to be effective, but the pharma company isn't willing to go through all of the research to get it 'officially' approved.

-p

[pedagogue]

Originally Posted by Cleansing

TRUE! It's not SSRI or SNRI. It's NDRI! Which is pretty amazing because there are very few meds out there like it. I'm not aware of any other anti-depressant out that is expected to cause NO weight gain, sexual impairment, or sedation (based on lab results and patient reactions). All other meds have at least one of those side effects that you may have to deal with. Problem is that you really shouldn't drink on this med, this more so than others.

Wellbutrin is a stimulant, though not everyone feels that affect. It works in a way that makes you more willing to be social and escape isolation. It doesn't really help me in that regard because I have a lot of hatred inside of me that no pill can fix.

Wellbutrin is pretty popular for those who don't react well to SSRI side effects, though it isn't perfect because some don't like the 'speedy' feeling they get on it. It also lowers the seizure threshold (meaning if you are prone for seizures, it could make it easier to have one), but that shouldn't be an issue for most people.

-p

[Done_With_It]

Originally Posted by shutterbug

Thanks xjunkie4u....it didn't help me stop smoking. I've been on it for several years now.

Peda said above that it's used off-lable as a mood stabalizer, but seeing that i still rapid cycle and dip up and down (especiallly way down)....umm my opinion is it's used "off-label" as a mood stabalizer for a good reason, which is that it doesn't work to stabalize moods enough to be considered "a mood stabalizer".

Anyway...i know it helps me with my ADHD, b/c my world gets topsy-turvy when i run out of it for more than a couple days.

And....i'm totally convinced that this new pdoc is a total ding-bat! Today, i learned that she has prescribed Seroquel (an anti-psychotic) to a girl to help her sleep!!! First she tried her on Trazadone, then Cenesta (or however you spell that) and one other before switching her to the Seroquel for sleep!! I'm at a freaking loss with that one....especially seeing how she hasn't tried the girl on Visteril (a simple anti-histamine that works for many).

Nope....don't like this woman, not one little bit.

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((((((Done-With-It))))))))
I'm soooo sorry for not responding to your wonderful post sooner....i don't know what's wrong with me!

That's what I've read in multiple places when Welbutrin is prescribed to bipolars that a seperate mood stabalizer is also prescribed. And that makes sense to me.

Thanks SOOO much for sharing your story with me about your friend!!! I would very much like knowing what the 3 books were you read if you can remember or find them?

It is sad tho that she does't remember your friendship closeness and all. really sad. Do you know if any other major relationships in her life were affected by her memory loss? How long has it been since she's needed treatment again? Or does she keep maintennce treatment appointments? I guess i'm wondering......basically how long has it been working for her?

wow...thanks again everyone!!!!

Hey, I didn't know you wrote back to this, I only have a minute.
I found two of the books, the one I really liked that was a true story is
Undercurrents by Martha Manning, she was a therapist and had to end up
getting it, really good book. The other is called Electroshock Healing Mental Illness by Max Fink.

About my friend, by the time she had gotten her ect she really had no relationships left, very few, her relationship with her mom and grandma and her step dad improved 150% and that was a really good thing. I know she started dating again after that, which she wasn't really doing before that.

I know she went down to treatment once a month, then it was like once every 6 months, after that I'm not sure, next time I talk to her I'll ask her.

She gets weird, she'll get in contact with me and try really hard to repair the friendship and then she flakes, but I think part of it is because she knows she messed up and she doesn't know how to fix it. She wasn't like that before ect,
so I'm not really sure what the correlation is, but I can tell she's happy now when I talk to her, and her life it together, and she laughs, and goes on trips, nothing like before. So I just let her do whatever she needs to do. I'm sure one day we'll reconnect, it's only been a few years since all this happened.
The other problem with us was she ended up getting a really good job and she moved a few hours away, she used to live close. So it wasn't like we could just drive right over to each others house. That was a major issue.
Cause even when we tried to stay close it was just hard..

oh btw, I also take seroquel for sleep, they want me to take more than I do, but I don't, cause it makes me way to tired, it is supposedly similiar to zyprexa, that's what I was told. But it does knock you out...

[QU31]

I think the issue of ECT is really interesting and I don't know why it isn't used more often. Here's something I've been wondering lately though. When they say short term memory loss is a problem, do they mean loss of short-term memory or a loss of all memory that lasts for a short term? I have always assumed it is the first.

There are also a couple of other new therapies--transcranial magnetic stimulation and vagal nerve stimulation, which I believe is the implant you are talking about, Jenna. The problem with that one is it's really expensive.

I have been trying to get my boyfriend to look into ECT or TMS. I think two of the main reasons people don't want to do it are the stigma attached and fear they won't be able to perform at work due to the memory loss. Plus what we've all seen in the movies.

I say go for it Jenna. What if a miracle happens?

[PaperDolls]

I know nothing about ECT except what I've read here at SR.

I don't know if I'm remembering this wrong or not.....but I think welbutrin is a common drug to be used in combo with others for bipolar disorder. Especially if you don't do well on SSRI stuff like Effexor.