Somewhat scared...

[Wolf_22]

Hey everyone...

I'm not trying to be a pansy or anything, and I'm definately not trying to start any political arguments...

But what do some of you think about all of this stuff about the U.S., North Korea, Iran, Israel, etc...? Please consider your response BEFOREHAND to circumvent possible conversational contests too...

Personally, I'm pretty scared. I feel like it's the beginning of the end of the world or WW3 or something. I don't understand why people can't just be okay with who they are and who their around... Why do we have to bomb people?

[ranae1221]

all i know is that i try to not watch the news, because i tend to get freaked out. some people might say that i should be well informed about world conditions, however i need to sleep at night.

people can have different opinions on who should do what and who shouldn't do what, but it all comes down to the world is a dangerous place right now, no matter where you live.

[best]

As it states in the bible... There will be wars and rumors of wars.
You find many will say that what we see is the signs written of that tell of the coming of the end times.
For anyone who says they know when the last days are, they are but a fool, for only God in heaven knows the hour or the day.

From what is written, what we see now is nothing compared to what will be.

When I read the news, I see a sadness of what is happening in our world.
What can I do about it?
I can keep my side of the street clean. (control what I can)
For things that are beyond my control...
I didn't cause it.
I can't control it.
I can't change it.
So I need leave it in God's hands and continue to pray and keep my side of the street clean.

[Doodlebug]

I understand your being scared.... For what it's worth, back in the early 60's I was a young teen. I was terrified by the Cuban Missle crisis and thought for sure we were going to targeted for an A-bomb drop straight from Castro himself. The TV said the bombs could reach as far north as Chicago, so I figured we'd be toast any day for sure.

My family never had a "bomb shelter" built as some of the rich people were doing. The only place I figured we could go would be into the basement and I knew that we would not really be protected there. So.... at the young age of 13 or 14... I just figured I was going to die in a day or so. I even tried to imagine how it was going to feel and what I would be thinking. Morbid? Maybe, but it was how I was able to cope.

Since then I have lived through all sorts of these "world crisis'" I am still fatalistic about them. Of course I hope they will resolve.... and they usually do. But As stated by best...there is nothing we can do about it. We can't control the actions of others. I try to just go with the flow and mostly ignore it.

[Jwife22]

The way I see it is that things normally aren't quite as bad as the news trys to make it. They tend to try to scare people for ratings.......even past news anchors have admitted this.

I am not naive and I do know some bad stuff is going on in the world today and I do try to keep up with it but I will not allow it to consume my every thought.

[Blake]

What worries me most about the whole situation is that our president believes the whole "end times" thing in the bible. He believes he is doing his god's work. He may believe that he is supposed to help facilitate the "end times" as a good born-again christian.......that is what scares me the most. I truly believe our president is insane.

I know how to stop most of the fighting in the middle east......destroy every "holy place" in israel....destroy the dome, the wall, the church, the mosque, et. al. THen what would there be left to fight for? A building is not worth the deaths of thousands of people, no matter who was crucified or ascended to heaven or what have you.

[best]

Blake

You seem to have no clue about what the bible says about the end times or about what Christians should or shouldn't do. Your rejection of God and using what little you know about such things shines so bright in your dislike of the President and using such misguided info in an attempt to bash him.
It would be more becoming of you to read and understand what the bible says and that way you could state things with an educated understanding.

[Blake]

But best, I don't care what the bible says (I have read it by the way, 13 years of catholic school, alterboy till I was 12.....war in middle east, rapture, antichrist, horrible stuff, 2nd comming of christ, blah blah blah.) And I don't reject god, I just reject a god that wants me to kill people for him and the closed minded fundamentalists that follow that god, be them christians, jews or muslims.

The entire debacle in the middle east is b/c of religious influence....our president has firmly stated that his religious beliefs effect his decision making. He has said that he does god's will. HE believes god tells him who to kill...that is insane to me and it scares me. He is not the person that should be in charge of this situation, that is why I'm nervous. Bush is crazy crazy crazy.

"I've heard the call. I believe God wants me to run for president."

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam [Hussein], which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

[janeeyre]

All the middle east happenings are making me a bit nervous--as a matter of fact I lay awake half the night listening to world news on the radio. And the first thing I did when I got out of bed this morning was flip on the TV to see the latest. (Ugh.) I just don't like it--it's so unsettling, knowing all that is happening.

But you are right, Best--I need to "keep my side of the street clean." There's nothing I, personally, can do about the fighting in Israel, Lebanon, etc. I can vote, I can pray, I can do my best to help my own children make sense out of world events and raise them as best I can to be good citizens of our town, nation, and world. I can try to make a difference here where I am, and work to quell hatred and promote understanding. (The serenity prayer helps me in this. Amazing how it applies to more than addiction issues, huh?)

Originally posted by Blake:
The entire debacle in the middle east is b/c of religious influence....

Blake, don't you think there's more to it than that, though? It goes way, way back. Granted, there are the Islam/Israel/Christianity elements, but I think it goes beyond that to basic human indecency. Hatred, anger, greed, lust for power....all of it is just plain evil. But this is the world we live in for now. Good vs. evil.
Problem is, nobody really believes that they themselves are evil--it's always the 'other guy' (nation) who's wrong.

(Btw, where did you get those President Bush quotes from? I'd be interested in seeing. Thx )

Take care, everyone...
Jane

[Blake]

Jane,

Yes, the violence is predicated on indecency, hatred, anger, greed, lust for power.....but all that stems from the history of the place and it's religious significance. Religion is the cause of the problems in the middle east, the other consequences are a direct result of religious intolerance.

I got those bush quotes from this site... http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/bush.htm

[cmc]

blake,
I find it curious that in the name of 'peace' some would allow the atrocities in the past present and our future to continue. These people do not want to peacefully coexist- so if they are not confronted and/or stopped---- they could be at our front door. It is bad enough that people, like us in the US, who enjoy living in relative safety and security don't realize what the much of the world population faces every day- It is like Marie Antoinette saying "let them eat cake."
If someone threatened your family with a gun would you say "lets all get along?"
True Christians are the ones out there trying to help those unfortunates all over the world. Trying to help the AIDS crisis in Africa, providing food and medicine etc to people whose countries refuse to care for. It is an uphill battle. It is so easy to point a finger at those who don't live their faith or to lump them in with others who do practice it.
The truth is that people of many faiths in this country are trying their level best to help others. That is what a Christian nation is all about- freedom of religion!
I can't disagree with you more about religion(s) being the cause of all the problems- it is quite the opposite. Greed intolerance and hatred are the cause. Frankly, it is those who claim to belong to a religion yet know nothing about it that perpetrate these atrocities and force the hand of peaceful nations to defend themselves and/or others. A little knowledge about a big subject is a dangerous thing- Buddhism, Christianity, Islam,Judaism, Hinduism - typically are all peace promoting faiths. The Crusades were an example of religion gone bad- just as the we have with the present fanatical Islamic sects. It may not be pc to say- but all faiths have adherents who do not 'get it'- meaning they have missed the point of their own religion.
IMO

[Lilya]

This is an incredibly interesting thread for me and I have been reading it with interest. I am not going to comment, though. I am French and a guest in your country when I share at this board and I want to be respectful.

What I can say is that I agree that the most danger comes from religious fanatics.

Of course I worry about the situation in the world, not to mention what is going on right now. I felt so powerless over what was going on several years ago and angry over the violatation of human rights, that I decided to do something about it. I joined Amnesty International as an active member. In this small way I feel I can do something, one tiny step at a time.

When I was a lot younger, I was never scared of World War Three. I knew that most leaders wouldn´t be that crazy. They would wipe out the earth and where is the sense in that? History has tought us war is mostly about financial gain.

I put a light in my window to send positive thoughts out to the world. I will be checking this thread regularily.

Love and light,

[Blake]

CMC,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...inian_conflict
Religion is the basis of this conflict....jews against muslims. Muslims are not happy that a zionist state was formed after the fall of the ottoman empire and given to the jews. The land had been occupied by native arabs and they feel it was stolen from them by the jews. It would **** me off if I lived somewhere and was kicked out one day b/c I wasn't a certain religion. The state of Isreal is somewhat similar to the apartide of south africa. Jews are allowed to roam free in israel, live where they want, wrok where they want. Arabs are resricted severly in all they do in israel....b/c they are not jewish. That pisses them off. It'd **** me off too if I was in the same situation. I am in no way saying that the extremist response of suicide bombings or violence is the correct response. Just that it is all based on what religion you are.

I like your analogy of the threatened with a gun thing, no I would not say lets just get along. I would protect my family. It works both ways too though, If I'm pressing a gun against someone's head telling them to get out, I should expect some retaliation also. It's like the whole conundrum in Iraq....we are trying to fight "terrorists" by reigning terror on those people, killing someone's entire family, even if by accident, causes hate and births more terrorists. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

You speak of allowing atrocities to continue. As a nation atrocities don't bother us till it affects us directly. We are allied with Israel b/c it gives us a foot hold in the region and an ally to have our backs, any atrocities there make the front page and cause an uprising of support......or else the terrorists will be at our front door......they will win.....

Lets look at some other atrocities, Darfur for instance was labled as genocide by colin powel in september of 2004....the us didn't push for troops being sent there till feb 2006.....we don't get involved in protecting the helpless till it's in our best interest.......we are too busy in this country debating flag burning, gay marriage, violence in video games, and other inconsequential bullcrap pandering for votes instead of dealing with what is truly important and atrocious, like the aids crisis in africa, the darfur conflict, the sad state of our education system, prescription drug price gouging of our elderly, social security, homeland security and securing our ports, borders and airports.....

THe united states is not a christian nation, it is a secular nation. There is supposed to be a distinct separation of church and state. THe founding fathers thought that was of utmost importance.

[Jwife22]

This thread reminds me of a previous thread about someone where we all decided to stop arguing and get along......hmmmmm.....

Blake I think you said this in that post....ring a bell?

"I think this whole argument comes down to one statement....

I'm right, your wrong......touch blue make it true.....tripple stamp it....

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHH YEAH...I win!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[janeeyre]

These threads always give me lots to think about. So many diverse opinions--I love it.

Hey, Wolf--what do you think as things continue on in the middle east (and everywhere else, too)?

What a day. I was listening to NPR this afternoon and they interviewed a couple different "regular people" who live right smack in the worst of it all--an Israeli mom with 5 children whose neighborhood in Haifa was hit, and a man in Lebanon who experienced similar horror where he lives. Just everyday folks going about their lives, but they have little control over the frightening stuff going on around them. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5558339

[cmc]

OTE]Lets look at some other atrocities, Darfur for instance was labled as genocide by colin powel in september of 2004....the us didn't push for troops being sent there till feb 2006.....we don't get involved in protecting the helpless till it's in our best interest.......we are too busy in this country debating flag burning, gay marriage, violence in video games, and other inconsequential bullcrap pandering for votes instead of dealing with what is truly important and atrocious, like the aids crisis in africa, the darfur conflict, the sad state of our education system, prescription drug price gouging of our elderly, social security, homeland security and securing our ports, borders and airports.....[/QUOTE]
Blake:
This is exactly what I was talking about.... I agree about our not being involved until it hits home, but do the voters really want us to help everyone in the world? I don't know- we do have our own problems here, but nothing compared to so many others. These types of things have happened for many, many years and people dying of starvation and disease have oftentimes been overlooked or worse ignored. There is no excuse- only shame in that.
It's the 'not in my backyard syndrome' ...turn off the news and go to sleep ideology.
My term "Christian nation" was a poor choice of words- what I intended to say was that our nation is based on Judeo-Christian principles which allow and absolutely defend the rights for all to have freedom of religion... of course that is my point. Many of the countries represented in
the current unrest do not allow those freedoms- and do have an agenda to force their intolerance upon others. Especially towards women...don't get me started on that one!
I would also like to say- that as we are sharing our views- that this is called a discussion. I am interested to hear what others have to say and would hope that is reciprocated towards what I have to say as well. It's not an argument- it's called freedom of expression. We can all learn from each other.
I just happen to see it differently- the middle east issue is to me more of a nationalistic issue involving countries fighting over land- and yes...involving their religious shrines! It would be a great day to see things resolved and the killing stopped.
Blake, your eye for an eye statement - yes... when will it end? It's like a global gang war. In the middle east it goes on and on..... it's appalling. I am usually a hopeful person but I don't see an end to any of this... sorry to be so negative. No matter what concessions are made- it never seems to be enough on either side of the mideast conflict- to have peace. It scares me.
I think that Lilya has the best plan of all... she got involved with a group that is doing something to help others- Kudos to her!

[Blake]

Well we are selective about the not till it hits home thing. Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with us. THey were not a threat to us in the least, but we started a war there for no good reason and alot of our troops have died for what? b/c sadaam is a bad man? to spread democracy? to keep us swimming in iraqi oil? We have done way more harm than good in Iraq. THe global aids crisis is much more of a threat to us, Global Warming is much more of a threat to us, Medicare is much more of a threat to us, Hurricane protection is much more of a threat to us (well me atleast), Education is much more of a threat to us, Homeland security is much more of a threat to us, poverty and homelessness here is much more of a threat to us, healthcare is much more of a threat to us.....here is a good article that puts the cost of the war in perspective http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...062301363.html

The united states was not formed on the basis of judeo-christian priciples. It was formed on basis od democratic ideals based in natural law and diesm. THomas Jefferson, the author of the declaration of independence, was a noted diest and held the values of life liberty and the pursuit of happines, goverment run by the people, freedom of religion, separation of church and state, and weak executive power as primary goals throughout the formation of our country. He, along with many other of the founding fathers, was devoutly anit-religious and held that religion is the last thing that should be used in forming a government, so strongly that people accused him of being an athiest. Like I said the US is a secular nation and religion should be kept way way out of political issues.....like stem cell research as an example.

A solution to the problem in the middle east is impossible. There will never be a solution that both sides are happy with. THere will allways be extremists on both sides that will continue to disrupt any sort of peace that is held. It may get better but it'll never be solved. WHy should we get involved if it doesn't directly affect us? Israel is the reason that osama bin laden attacked us, our support for israel and our presence in the middle east with all out bases in saudi arabia.....not b/c he hated our freedom. Our support for Israel is infinitely more of a factor for terrorist threat that Iraq ever was.....well at least before we started an unprovoked, unsanctioned war with them...now it's one of terrorists organizations top recruiters.

I like these discussions too...and I thank yall for keeping it civil and intelligent.

Peace and chicken grease,
Blake

[Blake]

President Bush's response today... http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchiv...7/pig_man.html

[best]

Your dirty source is showing...

The Daily Show Fake news that delivers the truth
Get the Daily Show at iTunes

I guess we can find answers to what "we" want to say just about anyplace.

[Blake]

The daily show is a parody of the news, it is satire, but at the heart of all good satire lies truth and message. embarrassingly enough, the clip is 100% real. It's taken from CNN.

here is a hard news source. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ushboar14.html

[best]

Originally Posted by Blake

... the clip is 100% real. It's taken from CNN.

hahaha and that is a parody of the news, it is satire also.

You need to watch Fox news if you want things closer to the truth.

[Blake]

Originally Posted by best

You need to watch Fox news if you want things closer to the truth.

I'll take that as a joke....

[Doodlebug]

Originally Posted by cmc

These people do not want to peacefully coexist- so if they are not confronted and/or stopped---- they could be at our front door.

They not only ARE already at our front door, they are in every room of our house! That's what makes this whole thing so scarry. They ARE here, and they are plotting daily how to kill the most Americans per pound of explosives. Look that the bunch of them that were just rounded up in Florida that had the Sears Tower in their plans.

So we have the whole "homeland security" thing. How is it going to stop someone carrying a "dirty bomb" from setting it off in the middle of a crouded subway? I am sure we will have another big event like 911. What will end it? Nothing. These fundamentalists have stated the "holy" war will not end until we are all dead or at the very least practicing Muslims. It's gone way beyond fighting for the holy land and who has rights to that territory.

I don't think there is an answer, or a way to stop terrorism. It is going to continue. We have to be vigilent here at home. No matter how involved we become in the middle east, no matter how many tons of bombs WE drop there it's not going to change the fact that we are in danger right here.

Now don't misunderstand. I don't live my life in fear of terrorism. I just know that I am more aware of my surroundings and the people around me. Unfortunately the people I am most suspicious of have a distinct Middle Eastern flavor. Profiling? Maybe. But I'm going to be careful.

[Blake]

THe administration tells us how much we are at risk and how dangerous another terror attack is, but at the same time, they continue to cut taxes which forces them to cut budgetary spending on important stuff like homeland security. I don't see hoe you can CUT spensing on homeland security right now, especially with all the crap going on in the middle east. It makes us less safe so that some rich dudes can keep a little more of their money. It just doesn't make sense to me. http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/p...607120354/1021

You are right about us being in dange here from terrorists, but all of that stems from our involvement in the middle east and our bullcrap war with iraq were somewhere around 40,000 CIVILLIANS have been killed b/c of us being there. We are terrorists to them and that just breeds hate and more terrorists wanting to kill us. We have made things worse than before we went there.

THe sad thing is that Afganistan, a place we actually had reason to invade, was brushed over in our march to attack Iraq, now the violence and fighting is worse than it ever has been there b/c we didn't finish our job in afganistan before our unprevoked war with iraq.

[Lilya]

I said I wouldn´t comment as a French guest in the United States, but I can talk about what I´ve experienced in my country. I belive there are more muslims in France than in any other country in Europe. We have been able to co-exist in a relative peace, but the danger from extremists is always present. At one time, in 1986, Paris was under siege from terrorists. I had a narrow escape three times. Unfortunately I´ve walked into a bloody bomb site where women and children were dying. That´s one of the things I will never forget... However, the persons responsible for that were muslim fundamentalists. The majority of the muslims in France are good, peaceful people. I have marched with them demanding the release for the two French journalists held hostage in Iraq in 2004. their captors demanded that muslims could wear the veil in school (Chirac banned all religious symbols in school to stress the importance of separation of religion and state). The muslims I walked with asked for the release of these two journalists, because they stressed the veil in school is a domestic issue and has nothing to do with Iraq. I was proud to be with them and I wanted to share this to tell you that there are only very few muslims in Europe who are extremists and terrorists.

Love and light,