Joe The Plumber

[Jersey Nonny]

Well, at least the average American is no longer being portrayed as a beer-guzzling Joe Six-Pack! For those of you still on the fence, why not just do a write-in vote for that plumber guy...his name was actually mentioned a whopping 26 times last night. Talk about 15 minutes of fame!

I read a lot of the blogs, including factcheck and news coverage. One of the readers' comments that really impressed me was the following:

Mc. Cain’s inability to see and face the facts in front of him is not simply an innocent senior moment.

It is squarely and truly a continuation of what we have been through in the past 8 years. It is the result of a world vision and political understanding that this is a me against the world stance, no matter what lies are contrived to manipulate and distort reality.

Examples? many. But the debate provided some gems of his truth-altering tactics:

Confronted about Palin’s silence at rallies regarding demeaning epithets and incendiary words about Obama, McCain just said, I am proud of the people who attend our rallies. Dangerous dodge, the question was about Sarah
Palin’s irresponsible propaganda using fear (terrorism) to stir the masses.

Confronted about abortion, he disregarded completely the notion of the mother’s health and took us to a scenario praising the McCain’s for adopting.

Confronted about the tax policy Obama wants to implement to protect small businesses, he smiled and looked astonished at the fact that HE didn’t understand what Obama was talking about, but pretended to tell us that what Obama meant by ZERO taxes for J. Plumber was a concept Mr. Obama didn’t understand.

Confronted about special needs children, he started speaking about Palin’s autistic child. HELLO? Down Syndorme is not Autism, please somebody tell him. And…
is it truly putting the country first when using the condition of a 6 month old baby to stamp an opponent and gain votes? Suspicious. I would really suggest some research on this topic and see for yourselves WHAT HE OFFERED SARAH PALIN as a Vice Presidential “package” if elected.

And last but not least, just telling us that women identify with Palin… let me tell you something Senator McCain: I have been a teacher all my life, and have seen young students (especially women) advocate for a world view that would bring peace and understanding to this shattered world of ours, shaped to a large degree by the political tactics sponsored in this government with McCain’s vote in Congress… For smart women, Palin is certainly NOT an American role model of integrity and intelligence.

And to be sure, such an inclusive and intelligent discourse IS NOT what Palin-McCain are promoting in their political rallies.

[windysan]

I like Joe the plumber. He's just like me out there busting his butt so he can pay the government for doing such a fine job !!

Socialism is cool.

[Impurrfect]

I read an article about Joe this morning...he IS like the rest of us..just trying to make a good living for himself.

[adore79]

I dont get it, Joe says he couldnt run his business under Obama's plan, yet Obama will give tax breaks to small buisness and to people who make less than $250k/yr. So, either Joe makes more than 250/yr or his business is huge.

[Impurrfect]

From what I read, Joe DOES make over $250, but the extra amount of tax would prevent him from running his business. I guess he's been working for years, to get his own business and can now get it, but the extra tax would prevent him from running it?

[Toomutch]

My husband is just like Joe the plummer except he does low voltage wiring.
I wonder if Joe the plummer will end up on the tonight show...

[LaTeeDa]

Joe admitted in a phone interview with Katie Couric that his business doesn't make over $250,000 a year. So I guess he was just being hypothetical.

COURIC: Well, he supposedly will raise taxes only on people who make over $250,000 a year. Would you be in that category?

WURZELBACHER: Not right now at presently, but, you know, question, so he's going to do that now for people who make $250,000 a year. When's he going to decide that $100,000 is too much, you know? I mean, you're on a slippery slope here. You vote on somebody who decides that $250,000 and you're rich? And $100,000 and you're rich? I mean, where does it end? You know, that's - people got to ask that question.

Am I the only one who caught it when McCain mocked Obama as an "extreme environmentalist" for insisting that nuclear energy has to be safe? Huh??????

L

[Jersey Nonny]

This from BBC News:

Joe Wurzelbacher is an Ohio man thinking of buying a plumbing business who has briefly come to prominence in the US presidential debate.


Last week, when Democratic candidate Barack Obama came to his hometown of Holland, Ohio, Mr Wurzelbacher told the presidential hopeful that the Democrat's tax plans would prevent him from buying the business where he has worked for years.

Mr Wurzelbacher said the company earned $250,000-$280,000 (£144,800-£162,250) a year, and he challenged Mr Obama: "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?"

Mr Obama said that under his proposals, taxes on any revenue below $250,000 would remain the same, but that earnings above that level would be subject to a 39% tax, instead of the current 36% rate.

Mr Obama said that 95% of small businesses earned less than $250,000 and that he wanted to give those small businesses a tax cut.

Mr Wurzelbacher told Mr Obama that would mean he would be taxed more "for fulfilling the American dream".

The encounter was picked up by the Republican campaign, and Senator John McCain spoke of "Joe the plumber" several times during the final presidential debate.

The operative word here is "thinking" of buying a plumbing business...it hasn't happened yet; so, of course, it is hypothetical...and misleading.

[Horselover]

YouTube - MC Yogi: Obama '08 - Vote for Hope

[LaTeeDa]

So, he tells Obama his business earns between $250,000 and $280,000, then he tells Katie Couric it doesn't. This guy smells fishy. I bet the McCain campaign planted him at that rally just so he would have something to bring up at the debate. It did seem like McCain's whole debate strategy centered on the "Joe the Plumber." Coincidence?

L

[warrens]

Joe the plumber told NPR this morning that he does not make over $250,000 and would not be affected by Obama's plan. He stated that his concern was that the threshold could change over time.

Seems like I remember something similar with Reagan and GHW Bush. "No new taxes??"


Oliver Wendell Holmes once said, "I like to pay taxes. With them I buy civilization."

A business would have to clear, after all expenses, etc, over $250k in order to be affected by Obama's plan.

A nation without taxes? Sounds much like Afghanistan. Of course the warlords tend to take their cut.

warren

[LaTeeDa]

Well, it's too bad that all this silly debate and Joe the Plumber stuff is splashed all over the headlines, because there is some really big news today that's not getting a lot of coverage.

Obama's Iraq plans vindicated as US agrees to pull out by 2011 - Americas, World - The Independent

L

[Jersey Nonny]

Kinda blows a big hole in McCain's possibility of 100 years of Iraq occupation, doesn't it!?!

[Horselover]

Debate darling 'Joe the Plumber' not a licensed plumber, owes back taxes

If I was Joe the Plumber, I too, would not want to pay any "additional" taxes.

[Lily]

I saw Joe on TV last week and brought him up on this forum. I thought it was hilarous how he was so unexpectedly thrust into the spot light by asking Obama a question. I think at that time Obama answered the way he really sees it. I am beginning to think that Obama really thinks he is doing the right thing. I was talking w/ a friend the other day who is going to vote for Obama. He said what he is doing is right because Jesus would have us share.

I explained to him, yes, Jesus would have us share with others who are less fortunate but I want to be in control of who I share with. I do not want to place it into the hands of big government and entrust them with it where it get gobbled up and there is not accountability.

I see it as a form of socailism when one "spreads it around." Never has taking from the rich and giving to the poor helped anyone. We live in a free country and I honestly believe ANYONE who is poor CAN get ahead if he just quits spending every penny he earns and then some. We have become a greedy nation who cannot live within our means in my opinion. I know, I have been there myself! I used to spend every penny I earned and no one bailed me out. I had to quit spending and be content with what I had. Only buy what was totally necessary.

I grew up in Bonita CA right outside of San Diego. My parents were very good friends of Corky and Vonnie McMillin (google them) They started by buying one house, fixing it up and turning for profit. When Corky died a couple of years ago they were multi-millionaires. They had McMillin Realty and have built tens of thousands of homes. I saw how they lived. They worked hard and never ever bought a new car. They could have bought a fleet of new cars.

Isn't it interesting how so often ppl who appear to be rich are living a lie (nice things all on plastic) and ppl who appear to be just average may have some savings for a rainy day? Why? self control!

I think we in America need to get back to basics. Quit buying things you cannot afford, help out others and quit worshipping THINGS. People are more important than the latest gadgets.

My husband & I totally quit using our credit cards on Jan 1, 2008 and I can tell you we have experienced a new kind of freedom this past year and also have not accumulated more STUFF! It has been awesome, and we have also learned how to save as well. Maybe we don't have the latest bling, but we have each other and 2 healthy boys.

This is my opinion. thanks for letting me share.....

Sheila

[SelfSeeking]

Sheila, everyone appreciates the importance of living within our means. But let's be honest here, you yourself improved your situation by living within your means and with assistance from the state. With taxpayer funded social services. Think the rich people who funded that assistance necessarily would have preferred their money to go to health care for meth addicts? Just going from what I remember from your other posts.

The example of those multi-millionaires? They earned their money from the real estate bubble!! Isn't that the one that just collapsed? Having a lot of money DOES take hard work and thriftiness, but good luck/timing plays a part, too.

[LowBottom]

I think Joe the Plumber is great - I would elect him or Sarah by herself just because they aren't career politicians. I would just love to have Joe ANYBODY in office.

[Horselover]

I see it as a form of socailism when one "spreads it around." quoted taken by Lily's post.

Is McCain's bail out of the mortgage holders a form of socialism? If I understand his plan it is that we (taxpayers) would take care of the portion of the loan ($100,000) that the house is over on the mortgage. For example, Joe and Mary buy a $300,000 home that is valued at $200,000. They are about to foreclose because of this situation and we (taxpayers) come in pay off the $100,000 (to the needy banks) and their loan turns magically into a $200,000 affordable mortgage. That's your man, McCain. I really don't have a problem with this idea, but I would think the conservatives must be spitting nails at this concept coming from their own party. Doesn't the conservative party hate this idea? Interested in knowing because of the argument of controlling ones money is so important to you.

By the way, I have and 80/20 loan and we are surviving. Its a day to day struggle financially, but we decided to take this loan because we were shy of the 20 down and didn't want the PMI. We would not fall into the category of the government bailing us out because our home has not depreciated and our loan wasn't for $300,000 - Thank the good Lord for that! I think the banks should write off the $100,000 difference since they're the ones that wrote the loans to begin with. Just my opinion, but I had to insert this because of the Socialism comment. I believe this plan is VERY socialistic.

[windysan]

Punish The Rich !! Punish Them !!

[LaTeeDa]

The republican party has been hijacked by people who believe in privatizing the profits and socializing the debt. The war in Iraq is an example. The McCain mortgage buyout plan is an example.

I agree that we need to live within our means and stop spending more than we have. And that includes the government.

Having said that, the whole socialism argument is nothing but rhetoric. Obama's plan raises taxes on people making a quarter million dollars a year by 3%. I know some people who are very well off who make no where near that amount. I'm sorry buy I really don't feel bad for someone who makes that much having to pay an extra 3%.

And regarding the socialism argument as it applies to health care--I was fortunate enough to have spent two weeks in Spain and France earlier this year. They provide healthcare to all their citizens and yet they have a thriving free market economy. Imagine that!

I will be voting for the candidate who owns one house and one car.

L

[windysan]

I'll be voting for the small business candidate and the candidate who wants to lower the capital gains tax. Which one is that? I'm for him.

In Louisiana $250K don't get you too far after paying for private skool tuition. Can't send my kids to public skools unless I want them to grow up stupider than me and I don't wish that on any kid.

[Lily]

Selfseeking, you can say whatever you want, whether it is to bring up the fact that I was on AFDC for a while while trying to get off meth in the 80's when I had a child and never took 1 penny from the dad cuz he was a dead beat. ....but what I am saying here is got off the drugs and I got a career and I got a job and I worked very hard to be the best mom I could. I raised my son up and he is a almost 20 years old. I was able to manage my money and even put him in a private school as well. It was 250 dollars a month and I saw it as the best money I could have spent cuz I did not want him in the same school as I went to cuz I was introduced to weed in the 7th grade at. I was able to send him to college for a year in Europe and now he is home and going to school to be a narcotics officer. (Ironic, huh)

I am not whinning about my situation. I am simply stating that since the moment I got off AFDC I have NEVER again put my hand out. I have given back to society with hard work and gotten ahead by saving my money. I volunteer with my local church, I drive kids from the neighborhood to AWANA. I feed the kids that come to my door after working hard on the farm w/ their dad..... I never got rich off he 653 dollars a month paid to me. It was enough for diapers, rent (always had a roommate), food and what bills I had. I never got ahead with that money I received almost 20 years ago. I can remember after rent having 50 dollars a week for food and any bills, gasoline, etc.... yes, I am grateful for that help. I never however felt a sense of entitlement, I felt appreciation.

I feel I have paid my debt to society working hard. I was a hard worker before I got on AFDC and after I got off meth I got a job and continued to work hard as well.

I am now able to do for myself what I was not able to do before.

I am not expecting to be rescued by anyone. I am happily living within my means and I am not making excuses today.

I think having been an addict and on AFDC has made me more compassionate towards others in all walks of life. Being a mother out of wedlock has as well. It removed all judgements I had before the choices I made. I was raised in a middle class family never said I wanted to be an addict when I grew up. I do not think that those ways were God's perfect plan for my life, but I know for a fact that those experiences have helped to shape me into the person I am today.

You can rip all of my posts to shreds all you want, but I will tell you what....I have joy in my life today. I have a lot of HOPE. I have self esteem and I have a loving family. I will have joy no matter who our president happens to be when I wake up on Nov. 5th because I have a relationship with my HP whom I chose to call Jesus Christ.

I gave my life to him almost 20 years ago and I know where I will spend eternity. He changed my heart from stone and gave me love towards others. THAT was the best decision I ever made.

Even when faced with adversity I am not bitter. I will probably never be rich, I will probably never be famous, but I have integrity and I sleep good at night.

I know we are not going to agree on this forum, but I pray each and everyone who reads this can find the peace I have, and that only found in Christ.

Blessings to you all.

I know this is not a religious forum, but mine I speak of is not religion, but a relationship with the living GOD.

He loves each and everyone of you soooo very much.

I challenge you this: for all of you atheists out there:

Ask him this week, if he is really true, if he is really out there, just ask him to reveal himself to you in a real way.... then brace yourself..... if you receive his love, I promise you will never be the same.

Sheila

OPTIONIAL:

Anyone who wants to answer these 2 questions, they are this:

1 Have you come to the place in your spiritual life where you know for certain (100%)that if you were to die today you would spend eternity in heaven?

2 Suppose you were to die today and were to stand before God in heaven and he were to ask you why should I let you in my heaven, what would your response be?

[Hilltopper1972]

Latee, lets try and not use "The Republican Party" and I'll stop using "The Democrats" in our language. The politicization of those two terms is out of control in the media and in this forum. Frankly there are all different levels of conservatism and liberalism in both parties and although I'm voting for John McCain, he does not represent my belief system anywhere near it's entirety. That doesn't mean I'm voting for Sen. Obama of course.
The Iraq war comes with a $500 billion price tag since it started, not 2 trillion as so many critics like to claim. Meanwhile entitlements cost our country well over a trillion dollars every year(1.6 this year by estimates) and that number continues to climb. So while I will criticize some of McCain's social spending which I believe his ridiculous mortgage plan is, what I can't do is just write off Obama's addition of new spending plans. You casually write off any new tax as, "Its only 3%" as liberals and moderate republicans have been doing for decades which is why we are where we are today.

"I agree that we need to live within our means and stop spending more than we have. And that includes the government. "

How can you make that statement as if you really believe it and then follow it up with a comment about "it's only 3%"? When government spends money where does it come from? Me and you. I find it amazing that you are ok with the government spending money as long as it is "My money(my business makes over $250,000/year" but not your money. Companies like mine already pay the majority of taxes in this country and in addition to the "it's only 3%" as you put it, I'm gonna write checks, what Sen. Obama calls "Tax Cuts", to the 45 million tax filers that paid no tax in the first place! How in all intellectual honesty can you define that as anything else but "wealth distribution" or socialism?
"I'm sorry buy I really don't feel bad for someone who makes that much having to pay an extra 3%."
That sums it up doesn't it? Did you mean to let that one slip out? Your dollars are worth more than mine apparently and if I don't want to give them to you by hook or by crook you're gonna force me to.

France and Spain have thriving economies? Where do you get that from? You mean you saw some businesses with open doors and people exchanging money? France and most of Western Europe are in a recession and have been somewhat stagnant for a long time. Spain has had some growth recently, but has had none for over a year now. Where is the growth? Eastern Europe, parts of Russia, and China, why? Because the people got their first taste of capitalism and they like it.

[windysan]

Hilltopper - Your hard work must be taxed. You must be punished !!

[Lily]

Originally Posted by Horselover

Debate darling 'Joe the Plumber' not a licensed plumber, owes back taxes

If I was Joe the Plumber, I too, would not want to pay any "additional" taxes.

Horselover:

I do not understand why it is that you would want to search into Joe's background and expose his life.

That is not the issue here, the issue is he asked a question. And Barrack answered it. Why do you feel you need to attack Joe?

If you saw John McCain on the street and asked him a question would you like it if they researched your background? I am sorry, but I honestly think this is over the line.